The Z Machine
Footballguy
Sad day to be a USMNT fan with that performance.
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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter jpeace121
- Start date
((Morpheus))
Footballguy
Yup - there are no words.
The Gator
Footballguy
This is the issue most of us had I'm sure. I think it stems from, "let's go there and try to get a point. A draw there is a good result."That mindset sets you up to fail. If you achieve it, yeah you gain a point. If you fail, it's a disaster.
We need the superior mindset of "let's go in there and win it." Guarantee that ups the effort and if you come up short, you get the draw.
They look like they wanted nothing to with that game and were praying for a draw. Loser's mentality
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
For the first time, I'm really happy ATT doesn't carry beIn.
The Gator
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Panama up 1-0 over Costa Rica early in first half.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Bad- Panama might be better than we thoughGood - Costa Rica might not be that good.Either way, if CR comes out with 0 or even just 1 point, expect the USA to do better in Panama.
sporthenry
Footballguy
ESPN has Panama up 2-0 now.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
If Panama holds on, this is a good result I think for US (assuming we take care of CR at home next). Outside chance CR starts hex with 0 points after 2 games.
sporthenry
Footballguy
To be honest, US might be best served by just letting Mexico take care of business. Jamaica could be a threat to the US in the hex.
ffldrew
Footballguy
The way they have come out to play here at Azteca - they'd run us out of the stadium
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Yeah. Mexico dropping points to anyone is not good for the US (unless of course we have all dramatically overrated Mexico).
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
37 minutes gone and Panama still up by 2.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
CR pull one back. 2-1
Premier
Footballguy
Mexico is not going to go 10-0-0 here. It's not going to happen. They are going to drop points. Today's US performance was awful but the overreactions here are staggering.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I don't understand? What over reactions? Everyone seems to be saying the same things. US played poorly and by not securing the point today, they likely made their path to qualification tougher. No more, no less.
Premier
Footballguy
Well for one everybody is talking about how awful it will be if Mexico drops points. That's just going to happen.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Nobody is saying Mexico will go undefeated but that the US would be best served by it. As far as the US, I don't really think it is that overreacting. I don't think people really know what to expect from Panama or Jamaica but I don't think they or at least Jamaica will be the doormats that T&T and El Salvador were last time. And it isn't like the US ran through the Hex in 2010. They did win the group but the home games versus teams like El Salvador and Honduras really could have gone either way.
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I don't think you are understanding what we are referring to. What we are saying is that it will be bad if Mexico drops points to other teams but then sweeps the US.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Exactly. Qualifying is a quagmire full of land mines. You can either remove some of the land mines with good early performance or add them with poor performances. The US simply made its progression a bit tougher.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
The surface at Panama is better than I thought. Panama still up 2-1, 55 minutes gone.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
No, just espn3 I believe.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Strange looking bike by Ruiz ties it up 2-2 in Panama.
berndog
Footballguy
I havent read all the comments so not sure if this has been covered butCan we give Chandler back to Germany? I think someone slipped him a mickeyBradley was brutal on dead balls. A corner kick out of bounds and at the end of the game lost possession with a free kick.I could listen to Roy Hudson commentate all day
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Game ends 2-2. I watched the second half but Panama appeared to be the stronger side. CR is going to feel good to get that point after being down 2.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Jamaica should have scored. Awful shot on a clear break away.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Does Panama look good or CR bad? Or too tough to draw that much out of the game.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I only saw the second half. CR certainly didn't look good at all and the draw flattered them but I could not really tell if it was due to them not playing well or Panama playing above their heads.
ffldrew
Footballguy
He also had two chances down the stretch at about 20-25 out near the middle on the run with a chance to hammer it - and he laid in two weak kicks
sporthenry
Footballguy
at Jamaica. Dude has a breakaway and kicks it 10 yards out of the way. This after the breakaway shot right at the goalie. Game seems to be opening up with fatigue starting but watch Jamaica finish these versus US.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
What has the Mexico match been like? I just tuned in and Jamaica looks pretty good.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Wow, the fans are oleing for Jamaica.
sporthenry
Footballguy
Mexico has been sloppy. Jamaica has been dangerous at times.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Wow. Great result for Jamaica.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Mexico, US and CR all looked less than expected tonight. Should make for a fun and nerve wrecking hex 
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El Floppo
Footballguy
Ok- just now finished watching this.
Some thoughts...
The US looked completely confused defensively through the MF and in the hole in front of the central D... which is strange considering that's typically their strength. They all looked at the other guy to make the second run defensively, with nobody ultimately making it. Outside of about 10 minutes at the start of the second half, that let the Hondurans win just about every single second ball (and score both goals). Not only that, Hondurans were allowed time to turn even within the US box. I'm astonished by how lackadaisical or lazy they appeared (in spite of the heat). I refuse to believe that they were as unfit as they looked and have to chalk it up to some kind of tactical confusion. If the US isn't going after second balls, or pressuring players they may as well give the MF (and game) away.
So why is it that when Central American players put on their national shirts, they seem to rise individually and as a unit far higher than the skills they show in other leagues? And more importantly, why is it that US players don't? Let's face it- those were mostly MLS guys who are decent enough but not great in our league.
Players...
Howard seemed a little slow getting to a couple of balls through, but I can't blame him for either goal. Thought he did fine on the day and liked his game management.
I didn't like how Gonzalez and Cameron looked together- poor spacing, couldn't win many balls in the air, and were slow pressuring attackers (letting them turn too many times) but it seemed to improve a bit as the game went on (outside of ball-watching on the goals... whoever scored the winner was OFF-CAMERA when the ball rolled by Gonzalez- WTF was he doing!?). I also didn't like either of these guys' distribution- lots of long balls nowhere near a US player... and not clearances- intended long balls that just failed.
Fab was ok on the day, but again fell victim too many time of assuming somebody else was going to either pick up space or a second ball.
Germany can have Chandler back. As bad as Jones was, Chandler was worse... horrible positioning, horrible with the ball and horrible defending the ball. Woof. I can't believe the weakness for the US was down the right flank. Jawdroppingly bad, especially given the history at that position.
Jones was horrific. Lazy and sloppy on and off the ball and singlehandedly giving way to a ton of Honduran counters or attacks because of it.
Bradley couldn't seem to find the weight on passes outside of close range- more turnovers from him than I can remember. And for some reason, he wasn't getting the ball in the first half which made his game pretty sub-par IMO. I liked how started getting more involved as soon as Edu stepped onto the field, but his shooting and crossing was just off today.
It was hard to tell that Williams was even playing- I didn't see many if any tackles or passes disrupted and defeinitely didn't see him going forward or getting the ball to the feet of guys who were. Edu played the role far better on the day.
Dempsey was Dempsey... moments of brilliance and enough moments watching guys run behind him that I just have to shrug. Hopefully he was told to not worry much about defending and wasn't just being willfully lazy.
EJ... IMO the man of the match for the US. Only guy who could hold the ball up without losing it and I kept seeing him be the only guy checking into useful space for the US (a complete shock given what I've seen of him in person). And he seemed to defend pretty well too as there was far more danger coming down the other flank from Honduras than his. And when he got the ball up on the wing, I genuinely felt like somethign might happen- his touches were positive even if he oould have had a better final touch (but so could every US player). He even made the same good run Dempsey did on the goal. I was really disappointed to see him come out so early (had to have been a conditioning thing).
Zusi- was the only US player putting immediate pressure on the ball. If only the entire team was committed to doing the same thing, I have a feeling this would have unraveled a pretty pedestrian Honduran team and provided the US with better shape going forward. He had a bit too many oofy touches though to give him many highfives. Still loved the energy.
Sascha.
typical Sascha- one second there's the simple or creative touch or pass done flawlessly, and the next second he's a completely goon with rocks for feet and/or brains. He can't be this up and down for his club or he woulnd't be playing for them.
Jozy... I dunno. He seems to do better with either more direct attacking play or if he's surrounded by short triangles working off him, but neither seem to happen too much for the US. He was weak holding the ball (an area that I've seen improved with his game for AZ) and not really finding the space to receive the ball. Another in far too many games to forget for him.
I've seen too many of these stupid losses by the US to know it's not the end of the world or time for much in the way of gnashing of teeth and rending of hair. BUT... dammit. Honduras just wasn't that good a team and the US played like... I dunno- like they wanted to conserve energy until the last 20 minutes by NOT running in the first 70. It's nice to see the US finally getting good enough to play away and look like they should have enough to win games; but now they just need to do it. This was a MASSIVE point or three lost.
Some thoughts...
The US looked completely confused defensively through the MF and in the hole in front of the central D... which is strange considering that's typically their strength. They all looked at the other guy to make the second run defensively, with nobody ultimately making it. Outside of about 10 minutes at the start of the second half, that let the Hondurans win just about every single second ball (and score both goals). Not only that, Hondurans were allowed time to turn even within the US box. I'm astonished by how lackadaisical or lazy they appeared (in spite of the heat). I refuse to believe that they were as unfit as they looked and have to chalk it up to some kind of tactical confusion. If the US isn't going after second balls, or pressuring players they may as well give the MF (and game) away.
So why is it that when Central American players put on their national shirts, they seem to rise individually and as a unit far higher than the skills they show in other leagues? And more importantly, why is it that US players don't? Let's face it- those were mostly MLS guys who are decent enough but not great in our league.
Players...
Howard seemed a little slow getting to a couple of balls through, but I can't blame him for either goal. Thought he did fine on the day and liked his game management.
I didn't like how Gonzalez and Cameron looked together- poor spacing, couldn't win many balls in the air, and were slow pressuring attackers (letting them turn too many times) but it seemed to improve a bit as the game went on (outside of ball-watching on the goals... whoever scored the winner was OFF-CAMERA when the ball rolled by Gonzalez- WTF was he doing!?). I also didn't like either of these guys' distribution- lots of long balls nowhere near a US player... and not clearances- intended long balls that just failed.
Fab was ok on the day, but again fell victim too many time of assuming somebody else was going to either pick up space or a second ball.
Germany can have Chandler back. As bad as Jones was, Chandler was worse... horrible positioning, horrible with the ball and horrible defending the ball. Woof. I can't believe the weakness for the US was down the right flank. Jawdroppingly bad, especially given the history at that position.
Jones was horrific. Lazy and sloppy on and off the ball and singlehandedly giving way to a ton of Honduran counters or attacks because of it.
Bradley couldn't seem to find the weight on passes outside of close range- more turnovers from him than I can remember. And for some reason, he wasn't getting the ball in the first half which made his game pretty sub-par IMO. I liked how started getting more involved as soon as Edu stepped onto the field, but his shooting and crossing was just off today.
It was hard to tell that Williams was even playing- I didn't see many if any tackles or passes disrupted and defeinitely didn't see him going forward or getting the ball to the feet of guys who were. Edu played the role far better on the day.
Dempsey was Dempsey... moments of brilliance and enough moments watching guys run behind him that I just have to shrug. Hopefully he was told to not worry much about defending and wasn't just being willfully lazy.
EJ... IMO the man of the match for the US. Only guy who could hold the ball up without losing it and I kept seeing him be the only guy checking into useful space for the US (a complete shock given what I've seen of him in person). And he seemed to defend pretty well too as there was far more danger coming down the other flank from Honduras than his. And when he got the ball up on the wing, I genuinely felt like somethign might happen- his touches were positive even if he oould have had a better final touch (but so could every US player). He even made the same good run Dempsey did on the goal. I was really disappointed to see him come out so early (had to have been a conditioning thing).
Zusi- was the only US player putting immediate pressure on the ball. If only the entire team was committed to doing the same thing, I have a feeling this would have unraveled a pretty pedestrian Honduran team and provided the US with better shape going forward. He had a bit too many oofy touches though to give him many highfives. Still loved the energy.
Sascha.
typical Sascha- one second there's the simple or creative touch or pass done flawlessly, and the next second he's a completely goon with rocks for feet and/or brains. He can't be this up and down for his club or he woulnd't be playing for them.Jozy... I dunno. He seems to do better with either more direct attacking play or if he's surrounded by short triangles working off him, but neither seem to happen too much for the US. He was weak holding the ball (an area that I've seen improved with his game for AZ) and not really finding the space to receive the ball. Another in far too many games to forget for him.
I've seen too many of these stupid losses by the US to know it's not the end of the world or time for much in the way of gnashing of teeth and rending of hair. BUT... dammit. Honduras just wasn't that good a team and the US played like... I dunno- like they wanted to conserve energy until the last 20 minutes by NOT running in the first 70. It's nice to see the US finally getting good enough to play away and look like they should have enough to win games; but now they just need to do it. This was a MASSIVE point or three lost.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Yeah- it was strange though. Because where they were weak were typically areas of strength (through the middle). I can understand the defense being a little ragged with so many new players in there. But I don't understand how confused everyone looked defensively as to who should run where and who should cover who. Even worse was how little effort was made on the second run (deadhorse) on both sides of the ball- but especially the defensive side. It seemed like guys were looking around for other guys to either win the ball or make the 5 yard run to pick up the ball of the header or tackle. And then Hondurans ran in and won just about every ball. Credit to them for... running.'Ted Lange as your Bartender said:
El Floppo
Footballguy
Disagree.Zusi wasn't great, but he closed the ball down immediately from the second he came on the field. Edu gave the team FAR better shape through the middle- and once both of these guys came in, Bradley started to finally put his stamp on the game and become more involved on the ball. But yeah- the final touch of Zusi and Sascha seemed like it came from guys playing on mud after 90.'The Gator said:
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