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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

I don't get Forlan's thinking. You're against a tired, aged GK who's likely going to react slowly, so why blast it down the middle? Either do a Panenka, or blast it into the corner, right?

 
The Kansas Comet said:
Spain is being outmuscled and outrun today. Brazil have been just stronger and faster, and La Roja have been unable to handle it.
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:yes:

Spain never got off the bus. They looked terrible.

 
T Bell said:
Sinn Fein said:
That Neymar kid is pretty good.
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I'm liking him less and less though. He's got a WAAAAAY obnoxious version of that prima donna disease.
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I don't see this. He'll dive/flop as much as anyone else. His game IQ is crazy good, though...esp for a 21yo.

The coolest thing I saw of him was at half time, where he stayed and shook his teammate's hands as they walked off the field. That's class from a kid there

 
I feel like this is the game the Dutch wished they could have played in the 2010 final. Highly physical, getting away with it and deadly countering. I do think we see an entirely different second half if Silva(?) doesn't clear that ball off the line. The entire Spanish team seemed like they were running in mud. Xavi especially looked slow. Supposing Coke and Visa don't require the WC to be moved, I think this game may portend problems for Spain next year. Hell, I think every European team is going to have significant issues with the weather.

 
The Gator said:
T Bell said:
Sinn Fein said:
That Neymar kid is pretty good.
Click to expand...
I'm liking him less and less though. He's got a WAAAAAY obnoxious version of that prima donna disease.
Click to expand...
I don't see this. He'll dive/flop as much as anyone else. His game IQ is crazy good, though...esp for a 21yo.

The coolest thing I saw of him was at half time, where he stayed and shook his teammate's hands as they walked off the field. That's class from a kid there
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"Class"? Really? That looked to me like a guy playing for the home fans and the cameras. They were up and looking good for it - did he think they needed encouragement?

dparker713 said:
I feel like this is the game the Dutch wished they could have played in the 2010 final. Highly physical, getting away with it and deadly countering. I do think we see an entirely different second half if Silva(?) doesn't clear that ball off the line. The entire Spanish team seemed like they were running in mud. Xavi especially looked slow. Supposing Coke and Visa don't require the WC to be moved, I think this game may portend problems for Spain next year. Hell, I think every European team is going to have significant issues with the weather.
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Agreed about the "lost goal", especially when Spain scored inside of five minutes later. That was a huge shift.

Still, that wasn't the difference. Spain just didn't have it today and were completely outplayed.

 
The Gator said:
I think they just said it 4-0 to Portugal quite a while ago

That or a 2-0 loss to the US :banned:
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The Portugal game was November 2010.

Hate to say it, but I think Xavi's days are about numbered as a starter for club and country. Overall, I think Spain -- like Barca, but moreso -- is incapable of doing damage on the counter-attack, and they had a lot of chances today. They seem to just get to their normal positions around the box more quickly, but there's no taking advantage of the break. The play that culminated with Luiz's awesome clearance was one exception.

 
Informal poll for soccer people:

Which of the following better defines the term "hospital ball"?

Choice A - a physically-weak pass or shot that doesn't make it/barely makes it to its intended target - it dies on the way there, hence a hospital ball

Choice B - a very poor pass that puts your teammate into a terrible situation/leads them right into a defender's tackle - your pass is going to put your teammate in the hospital, hence a hospital ball

Choice C - I use it to describe something different (please elaborate)

 
Steve Tasker said:
Informal poll for soccer people:

Which of the following better defines the term "hospital ball"?

Choice A - a physically-weak pass or shot that doesn't make it/barely makes it to its intended target - it dies on the way there, hence a hospital ball

Choice B - a very poor pass that puts your teammate into a terrible situation/leads them right into a defender's tackle - your pass is going to put your teammate in the hospital, hence a hospital ball

Choice C - I use it to describe something different (please elaborate)
Click to expand...
Choice A - but I think we called it a hospital pass.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
The Gator said:
I think they just said it 4-0 to Portugal quite a while ago

That or a 2-0 loss to the US :banned:
Click to expand...
The Portugal game was November 2010.

Hate to say it, but I think Xavi's days are about numbered as a starter for club and country. Overall, I think Spain -- like Barca, but moreso -- is incapable of doing damage on the counter-attack, and they had a lot of chances today. They seem to just get to their normal positions around the box more quickly, but there's no taking advantage of the break. The play that culminated with Luiz's awesome clearance was one exception.
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Xavi before the PK. :lol:

 
Steve Tasker said:
Informal poll for soccer people:

Which of the following better defines the term "hospital ball"?

Choice A - a physically-weak pass or shot that doesn't make it/barely makes it to its intended target - it dies on the way there, hence a hospital ball

Choice B - a very poor pass that puts your teammate into a terrible situation/leads them right into a defender's tackle - your pass is going to put your teammate in the hospital, hence a hospital ball

Choice C - I use it to describe something different (please elaborate)
Click to expand...
Choice B but choice A has some makings of a hospital ball also.

 
Terrible game for la Roja. They were up against it in terms of weather, fatigue, home crowd etc. But that's no excuse for getting throttled like that if you're the best team in the world. This was the first time I think I've seen not play their game, not dictate tempo, spacing, and forcing their opponents to react to their style. Brazil dictated those things yesterday by leaps and bounds.

So that leads me to my only point to make here. Brazil is now the best team in the world. I think that's clear. They are young, talented, physical, tactically aware, have excellent coaching, and certainly have a killer instinct. Spain is on the downside, as their core is aging rapidly and the players waiting in the wings aren't up to the same world class level as the golden generation of Spanish players.

 
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I have a love / hate relationship with Sergio Ramos. Why the heck did he take that penalty? One would think Torres would be a better candidate there, but maybe he was tired? Surely there's someone else that can make a kick there.
My love for him comes from his technical ability and style of play. He's comfortable playing many places on the pitch, can contribute on either end of the field, and can be a truly disruptive force at the back when his head's in it. That's also why I hate him. He's a head case, and is liable to get a stupid card, or make a stupid mistake. He's got to be a liability sometimes when he's out of position, or when he decided to take a penalty kick in the final of a major international tournament... and misses.

 
The Z Machine said:
Terrible game for la Roja. They were up against it in terms of weather, fatigue, home crowd etc. But that's no excuse for getting throttled like that if you're the best team in the world. This was the first time I think I've seen not play their game, not dictate tempo, spacing, and forcing their opponents to react to their style. Brazil dictated those things yesterday by leaps and bounds.

So that leads me to my only point to make here. Brazil is now the best team in the world. I think that's clear. They are young, talented, physical, tactically aware, have excellent coaching, and certainly have a killer instinct. Spain is on the downside, as their core is aging rapidly and the players waiting in the wings aren't up to the same world class level as the golden generation of Spanish players.
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Spain showed some weakness, but they also were run out of the last Confederations Cup by the US of all teams. I wouldn't count them out just yet.

Brazil is very good and has to be a favorite with home field advantage added. The most impressive thing about Brazil has been the stregnth of their defense in the tournament only conceding in two games. Neymar is only going to be better next year.

However, Brazil took home the last two Confederations Cups without winning the following year. We'll see if the momentum translates this time.

 
The Z Machine said:
I have a love / hate relationship with Sergio Ramos. Why the heck did he take that penalty? One would think Torres would be a better candidate there, but maybe he was tired? Surely there's someone else that can make a kick there.

My love for him comes from his technical ability and style of play. He's comfortable playing many places on the pitch, can contribute on either end of the field, and can be a truly disruptive force at the back when his head's in it. That's also why I hate him. He's a head case, and is liable to get a stupid card, or make a stupid mistake. He's got to be a liability sometimes when he's out of position, or when he decided to take a penalty kick in the final of a major international tournament... and misses.
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Torres was on the field yesterday? Could have fooled me.

Pretty cool to see Cesar win the GK award while wearing a Casillas jersey.

 
Steve Tasker said:
Informal poll for soccer people:

Which of the following better defines the term "hospital ball"?

Choice A - a physically-weak pass or shot that doesn't make it/barely makes it to its intended target - it dies on the way there, hence a hospital ball

Choice B - a very poor pass that puts your teammate into a terrible situation/leads them right into a defender's tackle - your pass is going to put your teammate in the hospital, hence a hospital ball

Choice C - I use it to describe something different (please elaborate)
Click to expand...
For rugby players, its definitely B, although we said "hospital pass."

 
Steve Tasker said:
Informal poll for soccer people:

Which of the following better defines the term "hospital ball"?

Choice A - a physically-weak pass or shot that doesn't make it/barely makes it to its intended target - it dies on the way there, hence a hospital ball

Choice B - a very poor pass that puts your teammate into a terrible situation/leads them right into a defender's tackle - your pass is going to put your teammate in the hospital, hence a hospital ball

Choice C - I use it to describe something different (please elaborate)
Click to expand...
I've heard it used as B in an American football context, describing a pass over the middle to a receiver, which leaves the receiver open to a big hit, usually because it was thrown too high.

I've also heard it as C, as another name for a medicine ball or training ball.

Why do you ask?

 
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The Z Machine said:
So that leads me to my only point to make here. Brazil is now the best team in the world. I think that's clear. They are young, talented, physical, tactically aware, have excellent coaching, and certainly have a killer instinct. Spain is on the downside, as their core is aging rapidly and the players waiting in the wings aren't up to the same world class level as the golden generation of Spanish players.
Click to expand...
I don't know about that. Brazil is certainly resurgent and you have to put them easily within the top 3 favorites to win the World Cup, but home soil has a disproportionately high affect upon performance.

As for Spain, their performance was so shockingly bad that I have to think of it more as an aberration, especially one I link to fatigue (from the Italy match and the 5th game in 2 weeks), and to Brazil playing on home soil. The future looks bright for Spain. They have guys in their prime like Cesc to pick up for Xavi and others who are showing their age, and they still have the best youth training system in the world and a LOT of young talent coming through. Spain will be a serious contender to win internationally for the next decade.

 
T Bell said:
Steve Tasker said:
Informal poll for soccer people:

Which of the following better defines the term "hospital ball"?

Choice A - a physically-weak pass or shot that doesn't make it/barely makes it to its intended target - it dies on the way there, hence a hospital ball

Choice B - a very poor pass that puts your teammate into a terrible situation/leads them right into a defender's tackle - your pass is going to put your teammate in the hospital, hence a hospital ball

Choice C - I use it to describe something different (please elaborate)
Click to expand...
I've heard it used as B in an American football context, describing a pass over the middle to a receiver, which leaves the receiver open to a big hit, usually because it was thrown too high.

I've also heard it as C, as another name for a medicine ball or training ball.

Why do you ask?
Click to expand...
I was talking to a friend yesterday about the Italy/Uruguay game and he referred to one of the Uruguayan PKs as a hospital ball. I told him I thought he was using the term incorrectly, and he described to me that he's always heard it as Choice A - the shot was so weak it essentially died before it got to Buffon and he made the easy save. I have always heard it described as Choice B....and a weak shot on a PK would definitely not fit that bill.

Just wondering if it was a regional thing or if I've been using the term incorrectly for years. He's from Cincinnati area.

 
T Bell said:
The Z Machine said:
So that leads me to my only point to make here. Brazil is now the best team in the world. I think that's clear. They are young, talented, physical, tactically aware, have excellent coaching, and certainly have a killer instinct. Spain is on the downside, as their core is aging rapidly and the players waiting in the wings aren't up to the same world class level as the golden generation of Spanish players.
Click to expand...
I don't know about that. Brazil is certainly resurgent and you have to put them easily within the top 3 favorites to win the World Cup, but home soil has a disproportionately high affect upon performance.

As for Spain, their performance was so shockingly bad that I have to think of it more as an aberration, especially one I link to fatigue (from the Italy match and the 5th game in 2 weeks), and to Brazil playing on home soil. The future looks bright for Spain. They have guys in their prime like Cesc to pick up for Xavi and others who are showing their age, and they still have the best youth training system in the world and a LOT of young talent coming through. Spain will be a serious contender to win internationally for the next decade.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is really questioning that. However, they are at a relatively awkward point for them vis a vis 2014 as Xavi, Iniesta, Torres, Villa will all be 30+ and the young guys on Real and Barca shouldn't be getting any playing time to develop (and you can't tell me that Cesc, Pedro...current second isn't anything other than a step down).

It also doesn't help that apparently there are different factions in their camp.

 
Sammy3469 said:
T Bell said:
The Z Machine said:
So that leads me to my only point to make here. Brazil is now the best team in the world. I think that's clear. They are young, talented, physical, tactically aware, have excellent coaching, and certainly have a killer instinct. Spain is on the downside, as their core is aging rapidly and the players waiting in the wings aren't up to the same world class level as the golden generation of Spanish players.
Click to expand...
I don't know about that. Brazil is certainly resurgent and you have to put them easily within the top 3 favorites to win the World Cup, but home soil has a disproportionately high affect upon performance. As for Spain, their performance was so shockingly bad that I have to think of it more as an aberration, especially one I link to fatigue (from the Italy match and the 5th game in 2 weeks), and to Brazil playing on home soil. The future looks bright for Spain. They have guys in their prime like Cesc to pick up for Xavi and others who are showing their age, and they still have the best youth training system in the world and a LOT of young talent coming through. Spain will be a serious contender to win internationally for the next decade.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is really questioning that. However, they are at a relatively awkward point for them vis a vis 2014 as Xavi, Iniesta, Torres, Villa will all be 30+ and the young guys on Real and Barca shouldn't be getting any playing time to develop (and you can't tell me that Cesc, Pedro...current second isn't anything other than a step down).

It also doesn't help that apparently there are different factions in their camp.
Click to expand...
Biggest problem for Spain is how ineffective Villa and Torres have become. Need to give more time to Soldado or Llorente upfront. Morata should be an option for the WC as well.

They also missed Xabi Alonso a good deal. Surprised that Javi Martinez didn't feature more alongside Busquets.

 
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