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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)

We interrupt this bashing for the following:

Everybody likes to kick Roy when he's down but he's a fundamentally decent man who unlike most English managers, showed a willingness to work and learn abroad.  Sadly, he'll be remembered more for his failures with England and Liverpool than for his successes with Malmo, Switzerland and Fulham.

Now hammer away.

 
Eephus said:
We interrupt this bashing for the following:

Everybody likes to kick Roy when he's down but he's a fundamentally decent man who unlike most English managers, showed a willingness to work and learn abroad.  Sadly, he'll be remembered more for his failures with England and Liverpool than for his successes with Malmo, Switzerland and Fulham.

Now hammer away.
Click to expand...


He does seem like a genuinely good guy

Hodgson megs himself in training

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Huge mistake tonight. My son is trying out at a new club and is wearing his Germany jersey. Coach is British. 
Probably better than one of his Chelsea shirts now that I think about it. Still sucks. I love this club because they have Two Hearted on tap and wifi. 
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Interesting twist on this. My son got an offer and accepted it last week. I googled the coach this morning and found this - "A native of London, England, Michael grew up playing youth soccer for Chelsea FC."

 
CGRdrJoe said:
Hey Arsene, notice how Jurgen is signing strikers?
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Strong rumors that Arsenal have agreed to terms with Lukaku and have reached an agreement with Santos for Gabigol.  As always with Arsene, it should be taken with a grain of salt. 

EDIT:  Also lots of noise about Lacazette, who I'd rather have than Lukaku when price is considered. 

 
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Really nice signing by Celtic today.  I am surprised no EPL team grabbed him.

Celtic signed the talented young Frenchnmen Moussa Dembele (19) from Fulham on a 4 year deal.

 
I figured that the great TV ratings for the Euros and Copa would hurt MLS tv ratings in the short run but I was wrong, in a big way.

ESPN posted a number that doubled its previous high this season for the Seattle NY game.

SJ vs LA broke the Univision record for most viewers for an MLS game ever on Spanish TV at just over 1 million viewers.

 
Per the Twittersphere, 22 year old Belgian striker Michy Batshuayi to undergo medical at Chelsea this week. 33M pounds transfer from Marseille.

Assuming Costa back to Atletico...

 
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Native said:
Per the Twittersphere, 22 year old Belgian striker Michy Batshuayi to undergo medical at Chelsea this week. 33M pounds transfer from Marseille.

Assuming Costa back to Atletico...
Click to expand...
Is 40m Euros the market for an unproven project player now? This is crazy, unbelievable. There's no way this guy would challenge Costa imo.

 
Southampton rumors update -- Claude Puel will be named manager by the end of the week and is bringing Hatem Ben Arfa with him on a freebie. Saints maybe the best team currently negotiating with West Brom for a Berahino purchase. And Pelle may stay on board unless they can make a nice profit selling him back to a Serie A club (£8 million was the original price).

They've signed Nathan Redmond, who will probably play Mane's old wing. At worst, things could look like this, I guess:

                                                         Long

                            Tadic                    Davis                 Redmond

                                          Romeu                 Klasie

         Bertrand                Virgil                             Fonte                    Cedric

                                                       Forster

I think that's still a top half of the table lineup.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Sounds like about as much as Liverpool played for Mane.  Batshuayi doesn't seem that untested.  21 goals his last year at Anderlecht.  17 last year at Marseille (and 9 assists).
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The inflation is crazy though, if these numbers are correct. Chelsea paid the same for Hazard 4 years ago, and he was 2x Ligue 1 player of the year. We've no idea Batisyahu can start in the PL (yes, In my mind I have conflated the Belgian striker with the jewish reggae-rapper.) Of course, I'm almost always wrong on these things.

 
Interesting that the FA seems to have taken a look at the Pu Pu Platter of current English managers and are suggesting they'd be willing to appoint an interim manager until someone like Wenger (or Poch?) comes available.  Seems like an easy out to appoint Southgate as interim manager while they try to line someone better up. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Interesting that the FA seems to have taken a look at the Pu Pu Platter of current English managers and are suggesting they'd be willing to appoint an interim manager until someone like Wenger (or Poch?) comes available.  Seems like an easy out to appoint Southgate as interim manager while they try to line someone better up. 
Click to expand...
You shut your whore mouth!

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Is 40m Euros the market for an unproven project player now? This is crazy, unbelievable. There's no way this guy would challenge Costa imo.
Click to expand...
I think this was as much jumping in front of Spurs as anything.  Spurs had been after Batshuayi for a while, but never met OM's price (OM had a deadline to sell players to meet some French deadline for balancing their books - owner refused to put in more cash). It would have been to back-up Kane, so I can't see Chelsea bringing him in to replace Costa - though Chelsea have fewer games to offer this year, so maybe they are going to a 2-striker system?  I have not paid much attention to Italy in the Euros - do they play a 4231, or some other formation that Conte might prefer?

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think this was as much jumping in front of Spurs as anything.  Spurs had been after Batshuayi for a while, but never met OM's price (OM had a deadline to sell players to meet some French deadline for balancing their books - owner refused to put in more cash). It would have been to back-up Kane, so I can't see Chelsea bringing him in to replace Costa - though Chelsea have fewer games to offer this year, so maybe they are going to a 2-striker system?  I have not paid much attention to Italy in the Euros - do they play a 4231, or some other formation that Conte might prefer?
Click to expand...
Ask and ye shall receive.  Basically he plays a 3-5-2 with Italy and none of Chelsea's personnel besides Costa fit.  

Two-striker systems have come back into fashion in the last couple of years, and Conte will likely target a new centre-forward to play alongside Diego Costa. 
Click to expand...


So if they are going to a the same type of system they need another starting forward (assuming you don't think that's Remy, Traore, or they try someone like Hazard, Willian, or Pedro there).  The bigger issue if they go this route is the "5" MF though as the two outside guys are truly wingbacks with defensive duties which Willian and Hazard (the two natural width presences) haven't done in the past.  The good news is if Miazga impresses, this is the sort of system he seems built for. 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/4-ways-antonio-conte-can-implement-his-italian-style-chelsea

 
Sinn Fein said:
I think this was as much jumping in front of Spurs as anything.  Spurs had been after Batshuayi for a while, but never met OM's price (OM had a deadline to sell players to meet some French deadline for balancing their books - owner refused to put in more cash). It would have been to back-up Kane, so I can't see Chelsea bringing him in to replace Costa - though Chelsea have fewer games to offer this year, so maybe they are going to a 2-striker system?  I have not paid much attention to Italy in the Euros - do they play a 4231, or some other formation that Conte might prefer?
Click to expand...
Conte plays 3 center backs.  It starts as a 3-5-2, but is pretty fluid.  The wing backs are often even with the strikers in possession, so it's like a 3-3-4.  Without the ball, one wingback drops deep, one of the center backs shifts over to a fullback like position, and one of the forwards drops into midfield to defend more like a 4-5-1.

 
Sammy3469 said:
Ask and ye shall receive.  Basically he plays a 3-5-2 with Italy and none of Chelsea's personnel besides Costa fit.  

So if they are going to a the same type of system they need another starting forward (assuming you don't think that's Remy, Traore, or they try someone like Hazard, Willian, or Pedro there).  The bigger issue if they go this route is the "5" MF though as the two outside guys are truly wingbacks with defensive duties which Willian and Hazard (the two natural width presences) haven't done in the past.  The good news is if Miazga impresses, this is the sort of system he seems built for. 

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/4-ways-antonio-conte-can-implement-his-italian-style-chelsea
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
The inflation is crazy though, if these numbers are correct. Chelsea paid the same for Hazard 4 years ago, and he was 2x Ligue 1 player of the year. We've no idea Batisyahu can start in the PL (yes, In my mind I have conflated the Belgian striker with the jewish reggae-rapper.) Of course, I'm almost always wrong on these things.
Click to expand...
I think inflation is here and comparisons to 4 years ago are rather meaningless.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Conte plays 3 center backs.  It starts as a 3-5-2, but is pretty fluid.  The wing backs are often even with the strikers in possession, so it's like a 3-3-4.  Without the ball, one wingback drops deep, one of the center backs shifts over to a fullback like position, and one of the forwards drops into midfield to defend more like a 4-5-1.
Click to expand...
Interesting.  This setup would make a ton of sense for the US IMO.

Cameron Brooks Besler as the three CBs

Yedlin and Fab as the Wingbacks

Bedoya Bradley Jones as the Mids

Zardes and Wood as the Forwards

Since Cam and Besler are both capable of playing FB you'd have the tactical flexibility to have either Yedlin or Fab switch to the backline.  With Zardes being the forward that drops into the midfield on defense most of the time (though Wood could do it as well).

You have to take Dempsey off to make it work, but I think it really suits the kind of team we have, plays to our historic strengths and papers over some of our weaknesses.  Especially when you look at Dempsey and Jones being phased out in the nearish future -- the only player I've listed there who won't be around for some time is Jones.  And having so much defensive strength out there might allow you to bring on a more offensive-minded mid as well (@gianmarcoalert!).

 
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FourFourTwo also has analysis of how Italy handled Spain so relatively easy.  It shows how Conte's system is suppose to work.  The big takeaways are:

  1. The two central Fs are there to force the opposing DM into staying back and being occupied (basically confusing him the entire time).  One of the CFs also man marks him once Italy loses possession.  
  2. The two wingbacks attack a lot, but the other 3 MFs also play in sort of the line with the two outside ones in the three naturally pushing out wide to support the wingbacks.  This tends to isolate the opposing outside backs (in a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1) and forces the opposing midfielders out wider than they potentially like. Basically it stretches out the midfield opposing midfield more than they might like.  
  3. So basically the midfield extends out wide in attack (to get in better than average crosses to the two Fs) and then contracts quickly to clog the middle (clog here means quickly putting the opposing MFs under pressure as opposed to purely sitting back and they get 8 behind the ball really quickly).
  4. You need 3 good to great defenders who aren't afraid to maintain possession and attack once they force a turnover. 
Net-net this is a great system against possession orientated teams that rely on one defensive mid to start the possession since it really isolates them.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/end-spanish-era-what-stats-zone-told-us-about-italy-2-0-spain

 
My pants are tight with Chelsea anticipation now.  Who wants to guess at what a 3-5-2 would look like?

3: Brana, Zouma, Dave?

5: Willian, Oscar, Cesc, Matic, Hazard?

2: Costa, Traore?

 
Jaysus said:
My pants are tight with Chelsea anticipation now.  Who wants to guess at what a 3-5-2 would look like?

3: Brana, Zouma, Dave?

5: Willian, Oscar, Cesc, Matic, Hazard?

2: Costa, Traore?
Click to expand...
I can't see Oscar and Cesc as good choices for that system.  Time to enter the Pogba sweepsteaks

 
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