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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (4 Viewers)

Doyle fighting the good fight trying to use some facts to show MLS is a lot closer to a top 10 league in the world than many believe

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MLS is 6th in average player salary.
MLS is 8th in median club value.
MLS is 8th in total transfer spend.
In the entire world, only Brazil's Serie A sends more talent to Europe than MLS.

As per capology MLS is 8th in median player salary (behind the Big 5, Champo & Brazsileiro) and 6th in minimum player salary (behind the EPL, Bundsliga, Serie A, La Liga & Championship).

MLS 8th in the world in average attendance per game. Nobody has viewership numbers that I'm aware of, but MLS has the 6th-largest broadcast deal
 
NewlyRetired said:
some facts to show MLS is a lot closer to a top 10 league in the world than many believe
Click to expand...
Not trolling or anything, just asking....

What do you mean by Top 10 League? How are you defining it?

Those facts are nice but outside this one, none of those really do much for me (albeit that is an impressive fact).
NewlyRetired said:
In the entire world, only Brazil's Serie A sends more talent to Europe than MLS.
Click to expand...
 
Man United record the biggest transfer loss since 2014 - CIES

So, here's a breakdown of the best and worst performers.

1. Manchester United are clearly the worst
During the past decade, Manchester United have amassed the largest negative transfer spend of any top club in world football with an ominous balance of -€1.4 billion. This reflects the club's propensity to sign players in lavish marquee deals without necessarily being able to move them on for profit.

For example, all 10 of the biggest signings in United's history have arrived since 2014 and of the three players to have since departed Old Trafford -- Paul Pogba (€105m), Romelu Lukaku (€84m) and Ángel Di María (€75m) -- none recouped anything beyond a fraction of their original transfer fees.

***************
Basically this is one of the issues with the Glazers (and Woodward). Yes they spend to bring in players. But when a player has shown to not fit or not be as good as advertised, they do not sell or move on from them. And Woodward constantly gave mediocre players big money extensions to try and sell them, but were unable to (because they were mediocre and overpaid). Plus academy kids that had talent but were not going to make the 1st team were rarely sold to bring in money.

The other Glazer issues are taking out dividends while the club is in debt, and not upgrading the facilities to keep up standards of being the biggest club in the world (ok one of).
As for spending, its cyclical with them. Spend big to get back to Champions League. Get in and do not spend to take the next step to challenge for trophies. Fall out, fire the manager and spend big again for a new manager with a new system needing different players.
 
B Maverick said:
NewlyRetired said:
some facts to show MLS is a lot closer to a top 10 league in the world than many believe
Click to expand...
Not trolling or anything, just asking....

What do you mean by Top 10 League? How are you defining it?

Those facts are nice but outside this one, none of those really do much for me (albeit that is an impressive fact).
NewlyRetired said:
In the entire world, only Brazil's Serie A sends more talent to Europe than MLS.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I was not saying top ten league, I was saying Doyle was saying MLS is a top 10 league and was using data to back up his assertion.

I don't think it is possible to compare leagues from different regions who don't play against each other.

But if pressed, I guess these items would be important

Number of international players in league (and associated quality of international teams they play for)
Quality of the bang average team in the league
Quality of the top of the league
Popularity of league (attendance, TV ratings, general buzz etc)
Transfer business (both incoming and outgoing)
Quality of the domestic player base

Things like that I guess. Obviously the Euro leagues excel in quality at the top of the league but there are a ton of leagues like Holland, Scotland and Portugal that have very good top teams and then the quality drops like a stone after the top tier because the Euro model pushes all the best talent to the top teams since there is no real salary cap. It makes it extremely hard to compare to a league like MLS where talent is distributed all over.

As Herc recently said, and something I agree with, the top clubs of Liga MX are still a little better than the top clubs of MLS but the MLS middle class is starting to show a gap compared to the Liga MX middle class and that is very likely to keep growing.
 
I'd add "current strength of the dollar" and "total spend on sports contracts for broadcast" to your list. Some of the strength of MLS is structural and those two impact his metrics for sure IMO.

I still think you can make a pretty good argument on MLS anywhere from 8-12 though.
 
NewlyRetired said:
B Maverick said:
NewlyRetired said:
some facts to show MLS is a lot closer to a top 10 league in the world than many believe
Click to expand...
Not trolling or anything, just asking....

What do you mean by Top 10 League? How are you defining it?

Those facts are nice but outside this one, none of those really do much for me (albeit that is an impressive fact).
NewlyRetired said:
In the entire world, only Brazil's Serie A sends more talent to Europe than MLS.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I was not saying top ten league, I was saying Doyle was saying MLS is a top 10 league and was using data to back up his assertion.

I don't think it is possible to compare leagues from different regions who don't play against each other.

But if pressed, I guess these items would be important

Number of international players in league (and associated quality of international teams they play for)
Quality of the bang average team in the league
Quality of the top of the league
Popularity of league (attendance, TV ratings, general buzz etc)
Transfer business (both incoming and outgoing)
Quality of the domestic player base

Things like that I guess. Obviously the Euro leagues excel in quality at the top of the league but there are a ton of leagues like Holland, Scotland and Portugal that have very good top teams and then the quality drops like a stone after the top tier because the Euro model pushes all the best talent to the top teams since there is no real salary cap. It makes it extremely hard to compare to a league like MLS where talent is distributed all over.

As Herc recently said, and something I agree with, the top clubs of Liga MX are still a little better than the top clubs of MLS but the MLS middle class is starting to show a gap compared to the Liga MX middle class and that is very likely to keep growing.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Was more asking Top 10 in what type of ranking or category but this does kind of give an answer.

Would be very curious to see how the top MLS and Liga MX teams would do in the UEFA Champions League. Imagine replacing a team like Braga and Crvena zvezda and adding in Seattle and Leon (mx).
 
NewlyRetired said:
oh oh, this sounds like something was uncovered during the Arena investigation

========================

Caleb Pongratz
@CalebPongratz10

Per a source: At the end of the season, the NE Revolution will “clean house” in regards to their coaching staff
Click to expand...





Pablo Iglesias Maurer

@MLSist

NEW: Bruce Arena is unlikely to return to the NE Revs following MLS’ lengthy investigation into alleged inappropriate remarks. Among the complaints investigated were some that came from his long-time assistant, Richie Williams.
 
Arena saying insensitive stuff from a 2023 POV isn't surprising at all. But Arena saying something that got him fired?! That does surprise me. Stuff about female staff maybe?
 
Being reported that Arena is barred from holding any position in MLS without first petitioning Garber directly.

Disappointing. He was an honest to god soccer hero for me -- 4 titles at UVA, 3 titles at DC United (he gets Rongen's on the Switzer principle), won the CONCACAF CL, beat Vasco da Gama over two legs in the third year of the league, Q-finaled the 2002 World Cup.
 
Bruce Arena quit as coach of the New England Revolution on Saturday night, six weeks after he was placed on administrative leave by Major League Soccer for what it said were "allegations that he made insensitive and inappropriate remarks."

"The investigation has been a hard and difficult process, for me and my family, but hearing from so many who have been part of my career truly has been gratifying and has helped make this decision easier," he said in a statement released by the team.

"I know that I have made some mistakes and moving forward, I plan to spend some time reflecting on this situation and taking corrective steps to address what has transpired. And while this has not been an easy decision, I am confident that it is in the best interest of both the New England Revolution organization and my family that we part ways at this time."
 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Being reported that Arena is barred from holding any position in MLS without first petitioning Garber directly.

Disappointing. He was an honest to god soccer hero for me -- 4 titles at UVA, 3 titles at DC United (he gets Rongen's on the Switzer principle), won the CONCACAF CL, beat Vasco da Gama over two legs in the third year of the league, Q-finaled the 2002 World Cup.
Click to expand...
tough way to go out after such a long career.

Here is the MLS statement on the issue

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Arena saying insensitive stuff from a 2023 POV isn't surprising at all. But Arena saying something that got him fired?! That does surprise me. Stuff about female staff maybe?
Click to expand...
What he said has still not come out but from other reports it sounds like Williams was involved as well. I assume it was more than just a single comment though. The investigation went on way too long. I assume there was a straw and camel moment though that started the whole investigation.
 
Least surprising news of the day, Hansi Flick fired as German National coach.
I watched their game yesterday vs Japan, and they lost 4-1 and it could have easily been 7 or 8-1. They were dreadful. They dominated possession but offered little in the way of scoring threats. And Japan on the counter was absolutely lethal.
German team has wayyyyyyyyyyy too much talent to be this bad for an extended stretch. Hoping Nagelsman takes the gig.
And I don't know I've ever seen someone lose as much confidence as Havertz has, just crazy as when he played at Leverkusen I thought for sure he was the next wonder. Now I put my faith in Wirtz who's incredible and hopefully doesn't leave Bundesliga.
 
So Inter Miami won 3-2 last night even with Messi on international duty and so are now just 6 points down on the last playoff spot with 2 games in hand. They are currently second favorite at +600 to win MLS Cup.
 
NewlyRetired said:
NewlyRetired said:
Pogba just popped for doping (testosterone)
Click to expand...
could be up to a 4 year ban...yikes

Probably low chance of the 4 year thing but that could be the end of his career and if it does all happen, he will be one of the greatest wasted talents of our time...
Click to expand...
He could have been one of the greats, but there was always something holding him back.
So much more that the game was always going on with him but I never expected this. Wonder if the injuries caught up with him and he was just trying to get back on the pitch? Not an excuse, just wondering the reasoning behind it.
 
I was just checking in on Euro Qualifying.

Scotland are having an amazing run. They are a perfect 5-0-0 in qualifying and have made Norway's chances to be one of the 24 teams that qualify for the Euro's significantly harder as it looks like Norway would have to beat out Spain and Spain already has a 2 point lead AND a game in hand on Norway.

It continues to scare me that players as good as Haaland and Odegaard could miss out on many major tournaments. If they can't qualify for a 24 team Euro, it is going to be even more difficult for 2026 WCQing when only 16 Euro teams will qualify.
 
This Arena thing is getting weird.

MLS broadcaster Kaylan Kyle said that Arena was being investigated for using a racial slur at someone in the Revs organization, then subsequently apologized for her remakes being “inappropriate and inaccurate.”

She was subsequently suspended by the league and has not appeared on Apple TV since.

The juicy part is that everyone is pretty sure she had inside info as she in the daughter in law of Adrian Heath (Minnesota head coach)

Also it appears that it was Richie Williams who was the person who made the formal complaints about Arena which led to the investigation.
 
Probably told Richie Williams that the fans were right about him being an overly-aggressive ankle-biting midget all those years.






(can I still say this, even as a joke? If not, I'll submit my resignation delete it.)
 
I mean, Bruce comes from the Bill Bilicheck "ball busting as coaching technique" school, so I'm sure there are lots of Bruce-isms. But I've also always figured that Bruce knew where the line was on racism, misogyny, homophobia, etc. So who knows?
 
wow....I don't know what to think any more. Richie Williams, the Revs, I guess, coach in waiting, held a press conference today in which he dodged every single question about the investigation.

Tonight, the Revs just issued a press release. Sharlie Joseph and Dave Van De Berg, Revolution assistant coaches, have been fired.

Clint Peay has been assigned as interim manager and the most strange thing is that Richie Williams name did not appear on the press release in any form....

They must have uncovered something systemic as this is getting ugly.
 
Last edited:
The Revs players refused to do any training yesterday unless Richie Williams was removed.

The local sports radio station has been calling him Richie the Rat.

This mess is sadly the most news the Revs have ever generated in 25+ years here.
 
guru_007 said:
Harry Maguire with another (OG)
Bellingham has to be in the running for the great English MF ever. Not hyperbole.
Germany beats France game after firing Flick.
Click to expand...

Every defender has an OG in them, so on its own not a big deal. But since it's Maguire it adds to his issues. I almost feel bad for the guy, except he continues to do these things. OGs because he doesn't move or think fast enough to be in position, runs over his teammates leaving open shots on goal, easily pressured into a mistake etc. But then I also remember he reportedly pulled the "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM" on the Greek Authorities, demanded United pay him a huge sum to leave the club, and seems to be perfectly happy sitting the bench at United while Southgate defends him. So I stop feeling bad for him.
 
NewlyRetired said:
The Revs players refused to do any training yesterday unless Richie Williams was removed.

The local sports radio station has been calling him Richie the Rat.

This mess is sadly the most news the Revs have ever generated in 25+ years here.
Click to expand...
theathletic.com

Revolution players refused to train after Bruce Arena resignation

The internal strife at the Revolution escalated on Tuesday following the former head coach and sporting director's resignation
theathletic.com theathletic.com
On Monday afternoon, players and staff for the Revolution were told in an email written by team president Brian Bilello that there would be a mandatory meeting early on Tuesday morning, before the team was scheduled to train. “I’ll be addressing what has transpired at the club,” Bilello wrote, and “giving this group a chance to ask questions.”

The meeting convened at 8:40 a.m, with Bilello speaking with players for approximately an hour. Players demanded more information on the investigation that led to Arena’s resignation. Unsatisfied with their time with Bilello, players requested and were granted time with the entire coaching staff, according to multiple team sources who, like others in this article, asked for anonymity in order to protect their positions.

That meeting lasted longer — approximately two hours. In that meeting, Arena’s former assistant and then-interim head coach Richie Williams was asked about his reported involvement in the investigation into his former boss. Williams told the players he was unable to comment.

Revolution interim sporting director Curt Onalfo then met with a number of senior Revolution players to further discuss concerns surrounding Williams’ continuing leadership of the club. Onalfo, said multiple sources briefed on that meeting, advocated for Williams but also told players that their input would be key in determining Williams’ future.

“Not many guys trust Richie leading the team right now,” one Revolution player told The Athletic.

Sources within the club said that assistant coaches Shalrie Joseph and Dave van den Bergh did not participate in training on multiple occasions since Williams took over as interim head coach. The New England Revolution declined to comment.

Later on Tuesday, the Revolution named Clint Peay as interim head coach. Peay had been head coach of New England Revolution II, the Revs’ reserve side that plays in MLS Next Pro. The team also announced that Joseph and Van den Bergh had been dismissed from the organization. Williams’ status with the organization is unknown as of Tuesday evening.
Click to expand...
So this was a mutiny. They think he threw Arenas in front of the bus.
 
United are such a mess right now. Brighton are absolutely going to run roughshod over them this Saturday. It's funny because if the Garnacho goal was good, and United held vs Arsenal, they'd be sitting decently, just 3 points off the lead and in a tie for fourth.
But after this weekend, I have a feeling they'll be 9 off the pace just 5 games in and bottom half of the table.
Brighton play a very attractive brand of soccer and this one gives me the same feeling as when Brentford destroyed them 4-0 last year.
But, perhaps I'm wrong. In the Japan/Germany game last week there were not 1 but 2 Brighton players in the game, so maybe they'll be worn out from international duty :oldunsure:
 
massraider said:

So this was a mutiny. They think he threw Arenas in front of the bus.
Click to expand...
A lot of people are losing their jobs and possibly their careers over this mess and every one (players, media, fans) keeps asking the same question "what happened?"

Until real information comes out, it is impossible to figure out if this was all over blown or was warranted.

Some have postulated that the assistant coaches only got fired due to being loyal to Arena and not because they were directly involved in the scandal.
 
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