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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (2 Viewers)

P.S. 

Europa Quarter-finals:

Braga(POR) v Shakhtar Donetsk(UKR)

Villarreal(ESP) v Sparta Praha(CZE)

Athletic(ESP) v Sevilla(ESP)

Dortmund(GER) v Liverpool(ENG)

 
A combined 236 teams from 54 countries were involved in UCL and Europa this year.

We now have 16 teams left, with 6 from Spain.   That 6 is double the next highest country in Germany.  

Spain's massive coefficient lead is going to grow.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
A combined 236 teams from 54 countries were involved in UCL and Europa this year.

We now have 16 teams left, with 6 from Spain.   That 6 is double the next highest country in Germany.  

Spain's massive coefficient lead is going to grow.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why Spanish teams play so well in Europe as compared to English, Italian, or German teams.  People say that la liga is top heavy with only 2.5 good teams, but this says otherwise.

 
3osxYtawhsMYHEVS7u.gif


 
The Z Machine said:
I'm not sure why Spanish teams play so well in Europe as compared to English, Italian, or German teams.  People say that la liga is top heavy with only 2.5 good teams, but this says otherwise.
Click to expand...
This is a complete mystery to me, too, compounded by the fact that it is a fairly recent trend. What's changed?  :confused:  

Give the La Liga clubs their due, though, they're running roughshod over almost everyone else.

 
The Z Machine said:
I'm not sure why Spanish teams play so well in Europe as compared to English, Italian, or German teams.  People say that la liga is top heavy with only 2.5 good teams, but this says otherwise.
Click to expand...
I don't watch La Liga much, but when you look at the table, it appears that there are 6 good teams.  Once you get past the top 6, the quality appears to drop off dramatically, based on the goal differential that I see.  

 
shader said:
Hey look, Bayern, Real, Barca and PSG don't play each other!  

These UEFA guys seem shady to me.
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If one considers Benfica, City and Wolfsburg on a level below, and Barca kind of on its own level above, with PSG, ATM, Bayern and RM roughly in the same bucket, I think it worked out pretty good for neutrals.

 
shader said:
I don't watch La Liga much, but when you look at the table, it appears that there are 6 good teams.  Once you get past the top 6, the quality appears to drop off dramatically, based on the goal differential that I see.  
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That's one of the million theories being advanced and I won't say it's not accurate. But I do get to see those bottom teams from time to time and I don't think Aston Villa and Sunderland could handle them. Obviously, I could be miles off about this as well.  :shrug:

 
roadkill1292 said:
That's one of the million theories being advanced and I won't say it's not accurate. But I do get to see those bottom teams from time to time and I don't think Aston Villa and Sunderland could handle them. Obviously, I could be miles off about this as well.  :shrug:
Click to expand...
You are probably right.  I doubt Sunderland would fare well in La Liga at this point.

 
UPDATE FOR NR:

I took his advice and went and ####ed myself last night. It was glorious. Nobody knows me like me.

Also calling shenanigans on random Liverpool v Dortmund draw. It should be quite entertaining.

 
Could be two reasons

Spanish teams have more depth

Spanish teams do not believe in the "concentrate on league" meme and play their best players as often as possible.

 
NewlyRetired said:
Could be two reasons

Spanish teams have more depth

Spanish teams do not believe in the "concentrate on league" meme and play their best players as often as possible.
Click to expand...
@Sebowski shtick aside, Spain is more technical which leads to less physical play imo. All lead to better being able to play at a higher level more often.(none of this is meant as a knock on Spain) English teams play more games(also no winter break), especially so in regards to Germany. 

It is what it is. :shrug:  

 
NewlyRetired said:
Could be two reasons

Spanish teams have more depth

Spanish teams do not believe in the "concentrate on league" meme and play their best players as often as possible.
Click to expand...
I think it was Barney Ronay in the Guardian who advanced the theory a couple of days ago that continental clubs were less interested (or pressured) in just picking up stars and trying to make the pieces work than they were in developing a cohesive squad. He went on to say that he thought Leicester might not do as badly in CL next season as some fear, because they have a system that they all believe in. Again, this is way over my comprehension level.

 
roadkill1292 said:
This is a complete mystery to me, too, compounded by the fact that it is a fairly recent trend. What's changed?  :confused:  

Give the La Liga clubs their due, though, they're running roughshod over almost everyone else.
Click to expand...
My hypothesis is that Spain/Portugal produces a ton of talent (basically the biggest country outside of Germany) and then they get relatively cheap transfers from South America with Italy on the downswing.  Yes English teams have bigger budgets, but they basically spend it on Euros or other English players which generally have high transfer prices (i.e. they end up wasting resources). 

I know this is going to sound sort of perverse, but I also get the sense that Spanish teams know their place (so to speak) and budget accordingly.  Barca/RM/(and now) AM basically know they are making the CL and the next tier down know they are going to Europa.  They don't overreach or spend just to spend.

 
To be honest, I think Atletico is the only team that has a slight chance of beating Barca, & that is contingent on them finishing EVERY chance presented, which they haven't done recently.  Their discipline, compactness, & Griezman  is the only obstacle I see left for Barca, otherwise the CL trophy is theirs.                                        (ETA: this is all contingent on Griezman going back to blonde)

 
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Kafka said:
To be honest, I think Atletico is the only team that has a slight chance of beating Barca, & that is contingent on them finishing EVERY chance presented, which they haven't done recently.  Their discipline, compactness, & Griezman  is the only obstacle I see left for Barca, otherwise the CL trophy is theirs.  
Click to expand...
That's going to be the key to any team having a shot at beating them.

I was thinking Bayern would have the best chance simply due to their goal scoring prowess.  They do seem to finish their chances.  But they would have to play flawless defense and even still have to mostly hope they simply outscore MSN.

 
Agreed, but River Murderers have the advantage of seeing them at least twice a year, which allows them to plan accordingly....

 
roadkill1292 said:
I think it was Barney Ronay in the Guardian who advanced the theory a couple of days ago that continental clubs were less interested (or pressured) in just picking up stars and trying to make the pieces work than they were in developing a cohesive squad. He went on to say that he thought Leicester might not do as badly in CL next season as some fear, because they have a system that they all believe in. Again, this is way over my comprehension level.
Click to expand...
Well that depends on if they have Mahrez imo.  Perhaps because it's only my 2nd summer (3rd but the first summer I didn't know what was going on or who anyone was except messi and ronaldo), but I think this summer is going to be insane.  Chelsea, ManU, Man City, Arsenal, and to some extent Liverpool are all in desperation mode and are all flush with cash.  Add in to that Real Madrid and their desire to improve and I think the cash splash is going to be unbelievable.

The question for Leicester is whether they can keep Mahrez/Vardy.  But even if they can't, the CL and the new TV deal should give them some cash to spend of their own.

 
The key in those Atlético / Barça games this year have been the "magic moments" for Barça and the early goal through high pressure for Atlético.

In Game 1, it was Neymar hitting a beautiful free kick goal.

nCVA8Kl.gif


In Game 2 it was Suarez and a ridiculous finish.

Suarez_Goal.0.gif


Both those goals were game deciding goals.

 
I don´t think that Barça needs to game plan much against their competition right now.  Against Atlético the plan should be to stay disciplined in the first 15 minutes, and be conservative / protective when playing out of the back.  Then, let MSN wreak havok when they can.  Break down the Atlético D by trying to pull a fullback out of position.  Hit balls over the longer than normal, and across the pitch to Neymar.

Neymar is really the only player I've seen that Juanfran can't handle well.  I would focus on making his life hell by overloading on the left, allowing Neymar to iso on him.

As for Atlético, they too don't need to game plan much at this point either.  They should play their 4-4-2 and give Griezmann the freedom to roam.  Utilize Sául and Koke to stream into the box when there's a numbers advantage, and see if Carrasco can make some magic happen in and around the Barça box.  I think Atleti use Torres as the top striker to start since he has a high work rate and good positioning.  That will help free up the two creative players with the ball at their feet in Griezmann and Carrasco.  Torres still has the chops to play possession even if he can't finish worth a damn.

The alternative is to have Griezmann and Carrasco both start up top to try and create space for one another, but I think that's a losing proposition in the midfield.  Distribution won't be able to get the ball to them much and they'll be tracking back too far.

 
The Z Machine said:
I don´t think that Barça needs to game plan much against their competition right now.  Against Atlético the plan should be to stay disciplined in the first 15 minutes, and be conservative / protective when playing out of the back.  Then, let MSN wreak havok when they can.  Break down the Atlético D by trying to pull a fullback out of position.  Hit balls over the longer than normal, and across the pitch to Neymar.

Neymar is really the only player I've seen that Juanfran can't handle well.  I would focus on making his life hell by overloading on the left, allowing Neymar to iso on him.

As for Atlético, they too don't need to game plan much at this point either.  They should play their 4-4-2 and give Griezmann the freedom to roam.  Utilize Sául and Koke to stream into the box when there's a numbers advantage, and see if Carrasco can make some magic happen in and around the Barça box.  I think Atleti use Torres as the top striker to start since he has a high work rate and good positioning.  That will help free up the two creative players with the ball at their feet in Griezmann and Carrasco.  Torres still has the chops to play possession even if he can't finish worth a damn.

The alternative is to have Griezmann and Carrasco both start up top to try and create space for one another, but I think that's a losing proposition in the midfield.  Distribution won't be able to get the ball to them much and they'll be tracking back too far.
Click to expand...
Reading Godin is out for a month.  If true, that is a huge blow to Atletico.  He plays Suarez very well

 
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roadkill1292 said:
That's one of the million theories being advanced and I won't say it's not accurate. But I do get to see those bottom teams from time to time and I don't think Aston Villa and Sunderland could handle them. Obviously, I could be miles off about this as well.  :shrug:
Click to expand...
I have no interest in watching a handful of teams steamroll to the championship every week. If avoiding that means the top teams are a step below or the lower half is a step above it makes no difference to me.  The EPL has the most viewers because their revenue sharing model delivers the most exciting product week in and week out.

Barca is an absolute joy to watch the few times they play someone competitive and I try to tune in for those games.

 
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jonessed said:
I have no interest in watching a handful of teams steamroll to the championship every week. If avoiding that means the top teams are a step below or the lower half is a step above it makes no difference to me.  The EPL has the most viewers because their revenue sharing model delivers the most exciting product week in and week out.

Barca is an absolute joy to watch the few times they play someone competitive and I try to tune in for those games.
Click to expand...
while I agree with this general thought, I am not sure the EPL is the paragon of parity by any means.

There have only been 5 different EPL champions in 23 years (and that includes Blackburn)

In the exact span of 23 years here are what the other big three have done, which is very similar to the EPL

Germany has had 6 different teams win

LA Liga has had 5 different teams win

Serie A has had 5 different teams win 

 
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The Z Machine said:
I don´t think that Barça needs to game plan much against their competition right now.  Against Atlético the plan should be to stay disciplined in the first 15 minutes, and be conservative / protective when playing out of the back.  Then, let MSN wreak havok when they can.  Break down the Atlético D by trying to pull a fullback out of position.  Hit balls over the longer than normal, and across the pitch to Neymar.
Click to expand...
This strategy reminds me of what a number of teams, but especially Real Madrid, tried to do to beat Pep's Barcelona teams - long diagonal balls towards a corner flag to make the defenders have to turn and run with the attackers.  That usually gave Pique, Puyol and friends trouble.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
while I agree with this general thought, I am not sure the EPL is the paragon of parity by any means.

There have only been 5 different EPL champions in 23 years (and that includes Blackburn)

In the exact span of 23 years here are what the other big three have done, which is very similar to the EPL

Germany has had 6 different teams win

LA Liga has had 5 different teams win

Serie A has had 5 different teams win 
Click to expand...
The financial parity from the wealth of TV contract money is a relatively recent thing.  I don't care what the league was like a decade ago (or even five years ago).  I'm not watching those games.

The top 5 teams right now with their place last year:

Leicester (14)

Spurs (5)

Arsenal (3)

City (2)

West Ham (12)

Obviously the big teams will always be in play, but it's a league now where anybody can beat anybody on a weekly basis; where bottom half teams can find and actually keep difference makers; where Arsenal will always finish 2-4.  How is that not fantastic?

 
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Last 10 winners for comparison.

EPL: Chelsea (3), City (2), United (5)

La Liga: Barca (6), RM (3), Atletico (1)

Serie A: Inter (5), Juve (4), Milan (1)

Bundesliga: BM (6), Stuttgart (1), Wolfsburg (1), Dortmund (2)

Ligue 1: Lyon (3), Brodeaux (1), Marseille (1), Lile (1), Montpellier (1), PSG (3, 4 if you count this year)

 
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B Maverick said:
Last 10 winners for comparison.

EPL: Chelsea (3), City (2), United (5)

La Liga: Barca (6), RM (3), Atletico (1)

Serie A: Inter (5), Juve (4), Milan (1)

Bundesliga: BM (6), Stuttgart (1), Wolfsburg (1), Dortmund (2)

Ligue 1: Lyon (3), Brodeaux (1), Marseille (1), Lile (1), Montpellier (1), PSG (3
Click to expand...
Also, I think if PSG win this weekend they'll have clinched next season's League 1 title as well.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Also, I think if PSG win this weekend they'll have clinched next season's League 1 title as well.
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France is really interesting.

They have simultaneously produced the most different teams that have won the league in the EPL era (10), along with two dominant consecutive winning teams in the same period:

PSG has 4 straight now and Lyon put together 7 in a row earlier:

Here are the most consecutive champions for other countries

LA Liga: Barcelona 3, RM 2

Serie A: Juve 4, Inter 4

EPL: Man United 3, Chelsea 2

Bundesliga: Bayern 3, Dortmund 2

 
The reason that EPL is more exciting has to do with a) announcers in English, b) better press coverage outside of games, c) better production values in the show, and d) more cultural affinity / allegiance with the British.

Basically, marketing.

 
The Z Machine said:
The reason that EPL is more exciting has to do with a) announcers in English, b) better press coverage outside of games, c) better production values in the show, and d) more cultural affinity / allegiance with the British.

Basically, marketing.
Click to expand...
You say that like it's a bad thing.

 
You could just as easily blame it on people. People like other people and things that are more like them. Basic psychology, yo.

 
Neither bad, nor good.  I actually enjoy watching EPL games for those same reasons, even if my favorite team is in la liga.  For teams that I have no affinity, an EPL TV production is superior, and I end up watching (a few) more of those.

 
listening to the 3/16 men in blazers podcast, my tweet was read, woot! was about everton being done for when Chelsea went down to 10 men.

 
This season of the EPL is great, but the EPL mid table teams have had the money to challenge a Sevilla or a Napoli for a long time now and it hasn't really happened until this season.  Leicester's success is primarily down to Vardy, Mahrez, and Kante.   They cost Leicester a combined 12 million euros (about 9.34 million pounds).

For context, that's about 66% of what Newcastle spent ... on Aleksandar Mitrovic alone. 

 
TV production quality is only part of it.

Liga MX telecasts are bottom of the barrel for production quality compared to say EPL or MLS games here in the US and yet they pull great ratings.  Their top games can draw 4 times as many US viewers as the top EPL games.

 
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