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*****Official The Last of Us HBO TV thread***** Pro clicker rights in here! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter wazoo11
- Start date
GregR
Footballguy
Following comments are only about stuff already having happened at this point in the TV show, but has some game stuff that I don't think are too spoilery, but forewarned if you don't want to know anything game.
The TV show is heavily portraying the combination of cut scene events from the game, and also a lot of dialogue that happens during exploration that goes into character development. But 95% of the sneaking, fighting, etc in the game is not shown in the TV show. Entire sections of the game are skipped in the show. Joel fights one marauder and getting stabbed at the university in the show... in the game he had to fight their way down two floors from the room with the monkeys, through a couple waves of the armed marauders, and Joel's injury and what it takes for Ellie to get him away safely is incredibly more dramatic and impactful than the TV show version. After Tess' death there's a big series of fights with FEDRA in the capital building that can take an hour or two to get through, especially if you're stealthing it.
Large parts of chapters full of fights that pretty much get skipped by the TV show. Like between the car ambush in the city, and meeting Sam and Henry there's a long period of being hunted by the marauders in an armored car with a machine gun. After escaping the city, there's a gigantic fight with waves of infected in some tunnels before they emerge where the sniper scene takes places. Of that tunnel stuff, the TV show let you see a school room the previous group of disappeared survivors had made for the kids there. Kicking the soccer ball in the TV show was from the game tunnels. But the TV doesn't uncover the story (found in written form in game) of the guy who escaped the city too and helped survivors fortify the tunnels, and what ultimately happened to their group. It also doesn't include our heroes being separated, Joel with Sam while Henry and Ellie have to run another way from Clickers, and you have to get Sam past a lot of the nastiest type of infected in the game to meet back up leading up to one of the bigger battles in the game.
So yes, there's much more that happens in the game, where most of the actual combat/stealth gameplay isn't in the TV show. But the TV show is IMHO still doing an excellent job of carrying the overall story even with the different medium. The relationship between the characters is a shining star of the game on top of the plot itself. The major events befalling the characters that grow it are being well portrayed.
Large parts of chapters full of fights that pretty much get skipped by the TV show. Like between the car ambush in the city, and meeting Sam and Henry there's a long period of being hunted by the marauders in an armored car with a machine gun. After escaping the city, there's a gigantic fight with waves of infected in some tunnels before they emerge where the sniper scene takes places. Of that tunnel stuff, the TV show let you see a school room the previous group of disappeared survivors had made for the kids there. Kicking the soccer ball in the TV show was from the game tunnels. But the TV doesn't uncover the story (found in written form in game) of the guy who escaped the city too and helped survivors fortify the tunnels, and what ultimately happened to their group. It also doesn't include our heroes being separated, Joel with Sam while Henry and Ellie have to run another way from Clickers, and you have to get Sam past a lot of the nastiest type of infected in the game to meet back up leading up to one of the bigger battles in the game.
So yes, there's much more that happens in the game, where most of the actual combat/stealth gameplay isn't in the TV show. But the TV show is IMHO still doing an excellent job of carrying the overall story even with the different medium. The relationship between the characters is a shining star of the game on top of the plot itself. The major events befalling the characters that grow it are being well portrayed.
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GregR
Footballguy
I had mentioned I was very excited for this episode. I was guessing it would cover a set of events, and then we'd get the flashback episode. Only the order I had guessed was wrong. So still looking forward to the next one a lot now.
As for this episode, I liked it, I thought they did a good job with it. But I also get it doesn't work as well in the TV show. In the game this was a prequel DLC so you've already finished the game before you see it. From that context it worked, we were happy to see a bit more of the story that had only been alluded to a few times in conversation in game. It doesn't mesh quite as snugly in the TV show narrative as the rest because it wasn't part of the original narrative. But, if they were going to include it (and I think it made sense to) then this was probably as good of a place as any to put it.
As for this episode, I liked it, I thought they did a good job with it. But I also get it doesn't work as well in the TV show. In the game this was a prequel DLC so you've already finished the game before you see it. From that context it worked, we were happy to see a bit more of the story that had only been alluded to a few times in conversation in game. It doesn't mesh quite as snugly in the TV show narrative as the rest because it wasn't part of the original narrative. But, if they were going to include it (and I think it made sense to) then this was probably as good of a place as any to put it.
Corporation
Angry Bovine
I didn't realize the stuff last night was DLC, I only played the base game. It was still well done but I could have done without that episode. I was expecting it to be what I guess now will be the next episode, which probably played into my disappointment.
Fat monster is the final stage of infected. They are called bloaters.
Funny you mention the ammo. In the game ammo is incredibly scarce. It's one of the things that makes the game so great.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I liked the episode.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
It was OK overall. The best part was not knowing when the girls were gonna get got. You knew the fairytale would end but not when and how.
Agreed on it being too long. Shoulda mixed in more Joel and real time instead of nearly 100% flashback.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I agree. There is a fine line between character development vs. story progress. They really overdid it this episode. This was the first episode that I found boring.
beer 30
Footballguy
After 20 years...
A good portion of available ammo will probably have either been consumed by now or under someone's scrutiny. Pitched gun battles would be few & far between methinks. I'd expect to see some bows and crossbows at this point.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
In America???? There's enough ammo to outlast the planet.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
I disagree.
IMHO, the best arc in the episode was Captain Kwong and the FEDRA versus Fireflies issue.
That there are two competing viewpoints in how to move society forward and save it from harm. Both sides have a point, both sides are both right and wrong in their approaches. And this episode shows not all of FEDRA is a mustache twirling villain. But that was done on accident. The design for the brief office scene is to show that if FEDRA can have both good and bad people, then so can the Fireflies i.e. Ellie is not safe from either groups.
But Kwong was the best character and best scene in the episode. He's just trying to get by and protect his family. He's doing the best he can in the situation. And he's, as he points out to Ellie, trying to find the positive, even if it's very slim, in any circumstance. The actor elevated the material he was given.
Of course the show had to shift back to it's wearisome agenda at some point ( i.e. Riley makes it clear that she's been told she's only good for latrine duty, while Ellie, the white girl, is being poised for leadership)
The production values and set design and care into the craft are all there. This is standard HBO prestige TV type effort.
But IMHO Bella Ramsey is woefully miscast and out of her depth. Also the lack of violence, while it's understandable because HBO wants to pull in a wide audience share, including suburban women, and their major demographic bonus to advertisers and sponsors and investors, removes much of the stakes in the season long arc. Tommy and Maria's settlement is showing one half of the equation. What could be possible if humanity is saved. But not enough is being shown on what happens if it's not. That narrative took a nosedive with the poor casting of Melanie Lynskey as the de facto leader of the city that was run with an iron fist. But again, the "agenda" had to play out first. Had to put a woman in charge, even if suspension of disbelief had to be tossed out first ( the character was weak and irrational, no reasonable group would follow her to their deaths, the bizarre love angle element of her second in command was a tacit admissions by the writers that the character itself was not enough)
FEDRA vs Fireflies as competing survival ideologies is interesting ( because it implies who would make better use of the "cure"). There are compelling and introspective questions on that and what kind of world could be built if the other was not a limiting factor. Also that each exists as proof of life to justify the other's existence. That too is an interesting discussion pathway. But we can't have it here because it edges on other issues that go past just cultural/social nuance and begins to delve into policy making and public administration. And because Tim would flip out on everyone.
The Fireflies are shown as "bad" in context to further the story, not because the writers actually want to display a broader nuance. The raw dripping activism laced in the writing is more than apparent.
This is a very well made show, but several of the characters are written in a patently dishonest manner. That's part of the discontentment you are hearing from some who find the show "off" in many ways.
You cannot have a fully fleshed out three dimensional character written if there is no practical authenticity. It's an interesting show, but hopefully HBO HQ will just bite the bullet and ask Mazin to recast both Joel and Ellie for S2.
beer 30
Footballguy
20 years time, there was a lot of killing going on. And again, the stock piles left over will have matriculated to groups by then. Individual consumption would be rare IMO.
Corporation
Angry Bovine
I think a lot of your analysis in the first few paragraphs is good, but I'm not sure how you call them showing different viewpoints of FEDRA/Fireflies an accident. The writers and producers deliberately put the scene in the show, pretty clearly to show that there is a lot of moral gray area in this universe, and the good guy/bad guy situation is not clear cut black and white (which is not a reference to your later comments on race). I would also agree that Lynskey was not the most convincing in her role, and they really did not spend enough time on it to give her the opportunity to grow into the role.
I'll skip over agenda comments, as they tend to devolve pretty quickly.
As someone who played and loved the game, I believe the casting of Pedro and Bella for these roles was amazing. I'm having a hard time thinking of other actors I would prefer to see in the roles. There is virtually no chance (outside of death, injury, or major controversy) that HBO HQ would want to recast those roles. From what I've read, the vast majority of gamers and viewers agree with that assessment. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, however. Who would you recast as the 2 leads in this show?
GordonGekko
Footballguy
If there is a shortage of gunfights in TLOU, it's likely in part because of the added cost and time to film extended battle / gun play sequences. Time is probably a bigger issue than the money for HBO on this issue.
Also Bella Ramsey does not look like she can competently "sell" the audience on the idea that she is capable in any kind of combat whatsoever.
On the short list for Ellie was also Dafne Keen, who was the psychotic claw wielding girl in Logan. Now she could pull off great physicality in that kind of role.
It's very difficult to paint Ellie as the victim if she's shown as too competent and too self sufficient. The tone of the show is pretty clear. Everything bad that happens to Joel is rooted in Joel's own doing. It's his fault. And everything bad that may happen to Ellie is still Joel's fault. Joel is functionally the "sin eater" in this narrative.
Also an undercurrent in the main story that won't be spoken out loud is that it's clear Neil Druckmann lifted some core concepts from Cormac McCarthy's The Road. He will likely want to distance himself from the visceral/brutal elements that would force a comparison. At this point, you have to wonder if Luc Besson should start asking for some royalties, as there are also call backs to Leon and Matilda's dynamic in The Professional.
If FEDRA can feed and run the logistics of a city, it can produce it's own ammunition if need be. In real life, what's more likely is more widespread use of shotguns. It's not as hard to create makeshift ammunition for a shotgun.
It's a TV show. Some things just won't always add up. I get the reasoning to limit the violence, but at some point, the question will need to be asked in how much of the tension are you taking away from the show by forcing away the practical violence to enable core conflict for the characters.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Hugh Jackman and Josh Brolin were both offered the role of Joel and turned it down. Apparently some inside Naughty Dog HQ very much wanted Brolin.
Jackman would have been the ideal choice if they got to choose anyone. However anyone who can leverage an actual career as a "movie star" is less apt to be locked into a TV series like this. Someone that's been named that would have been interesting is Viggo Mortensen, and a fair argument could be made that some of the construction of Joel might be Druckmann's derivative use of McCarthy's The Road. Hence Mortensen would be a normally good choice, but too on the nose for the comparison factor.
If I was in charge of casting and had full power?
Two choices for Joel
1) Andre Braugher - He's slight too old at 60, but if he got into shape, maybe they could have worked the character to be a bit older. Great actor. Very versatile. I think he would pull off the "grand" father/surrogate parent dynamic seamlessly. You can see how he can hate people but also warm up to them as well over time. More from his Homicide Life On The Streets character than his later Brooklyn 99 type cast. To do this, you would need to create a grandfather/child dynamic instead of a father/daughter situation. Not quite ideal, but he would bring a lot of depth to the role.
2) Dave Bautista - This would seem odd to start, but he's actually a phenomenal actor. The Drax role seems simplistic but it's actually a pretty tricky role. You can see he's improved dramatically as time has gone on, and each role, he brings something interesting and fresh in his performances. My take is he's moved beyond "Pretty good for a guy in a super hero movie" and "Pretty good for a guy who was a wrestler" He might need to cut weight. And obviously he doesn't look like the video game version of Joel, but if you are looking for that "Rogue With A Heart Of Gold" angle, I have faith he could pull it off. Also he could provide the physicality for the ramp up in violence on the show that many people want and desire. It would be interesting, in part, because you could see how someone like Marlene would just assess someone who looks like Bautista as a meat head, and a pure heavy without any agency nor any form of self reflection. Just a robot who will deliver a little girl to some uncomfortable demise of some kind.
Bautista would be my first choice if Jackman turned it down. Yes, it would be a risk and a change, but it would be fresh and interesting. Bautista is someone I see as a riser. Someone on the way up in terms of surprising people in dramatic roles.
For Ellie, I would have gone with Kaitlyn Dever ( the little girl from Justified in it's 2nd season) or the previously mentioned Dafne Keen from Logan. Had the series been greenlit much earlier, then Millie Bobbie Brown would have been the clear consensus choice. But now she's probably too old and too grown up and filled out for the part.
For Tommy, no matter who was cast, I would have gone with Joe Manganiello. If only because he draws a huge female following wherever he goes and that would help guarantee good ratings for renewal.
For Tess, I would have kept her alive and made her a full time character ( though separated from Joel and Ellie early) and casted Carrie Coon from The Leftovers. Again, an incredible actress and already a known quantity to HBO.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
I enjoy your posts. Bautista as Joel, imo would be like Tom Cruise as Reacher. not believable. just an opinion. full disclosure - i played the game and read Lee Child.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
There's a lot of foreshadowing in the currently aired episodes.
- Joel's reaction when Ellie tells him she tried to wipe her blood onto Sam's wound, and it didn't work. I'm not a huge Pascal fan in general, but he is effective here at conveying several layers at once. He obviously is torn in that he doesn't want to see Ellie suffer as it reminds him of his daughter suffering. And he thinks about what he would do if he was Henry, would he put down Ellie if she did turn one day. Or would he have put down his own daughter if she had lived longer and turned. Then there's the subtext that the blood alone won't do it. That there is potentially something more sinister at work from the Fireflies.
- Joel and Ellie talking about their futures "after the mission". Joel is talking about raising sheep, as a partial joke, but the tone and look he has, he's thinking about whether he's delivering "an innocent lamb" to the slaughter. He doesn't have an exit strategy now that Tess is dead and returning to the city looks impossible. And he wonders then what will happen to Ellie. If she is the "cure", then what assurances that she will be treated any better than a "sheep" itself. A useful animal. Expendable.
- The scene in the cabin. The elderly couple. The old man says go back. But it's the context behind it. "You have a child. You have a family. I have a family. I have all that I need. You have all that you need. What are you searching for besides a quick death for the both of you?"
- Joel looking at the university lab after it was destroyed. He understands the set up was built for getting more than just blood. And there was no pathway for stability there. No set up for long term encampment nor security. Whatever is going to happen to Ellie will be precise, surgical, sanitized and permanent. What exactly, we don't know. But there is a constant sense of dread here, that Joel is not delivering her to safety. And that the farther he goes, the close he's taking her to real danger.
IMHO, the point of the Kwong/FEDRA scene is to highlight that if there are good and reasonable soldiers, then the organization has both good and bad amongst them. If that's true, then it has to be true for the enemy as well. We've only see the Fireflies in light of being the resistance against perceived tyranny. But you see the pipebombs with Riley and you are being led to the possibility that the Fireflies are merely a different version of abuse, tyranny and corruption.
The nuance from the Ellie and Captain scene comes from the actor who plays Kwong, not the script and not the set up. He simply elevates the material. He makes the character sympathetic. He makes him honest and genuine. You see he's practicing what he preaches, that he had to probably do ugly things to be in the position to be measured with Ellie, and that only playing ball got him to that place. That the world is only built for small victories in chaos. What the actor really did was remove the element of insidious motive from the equation. He didn't tell the truth because it was the best way to manipulate Ellie. He told her the truth because he respected the fact that she was at least clever enough to see how she was being used. When I say accident, I mean that the Captain was merely there to further a plot device. But what happened is you actually want to know more ( well I do) about his situation, how FEDRA runs, and if they are sometimes "right" in their pursuits , even if it looks like tyranny.
This is the kind of acting that I don't see in Ramsey, i.e. constantly elevating the material. She doesn't make you want to know more. There isn't a huge pull to sympathize with her unless the story and writing uses simple manipulation to push the audience that way. Hence I am saying it would better for the future of the show if she was recast.
This isn't a sweeping indictment. The "heart" of this show is clearly the relationship between Joel and Ellie. If that doesn't work, then the show doesn't work. Much like True Grit. If Hailee Steinfeld can't pull it off, that movie just doesn't work. But Steinfeld is fantastic and it resonates all throughout the film. The Mattie Ross character in True Grit is incredibly complex. And the Ellie character is also incredibly complex. Ramsey just can't pull it off. I wouldn't say she's a bad actress, just young, inexperienced and poorly cast.
Ronald D Moore said something interesting once about "good television" and good storytelling. He said it's like a song. And you need a certain rhythm and to hit certain beats. He is alluding to the structure you see commonly in songs ( the break, the bridge, etc, etc) and the fundamental tenets of storytelling ( three acts, set up and payoff, A/B/C storylines, etc, etc) If you consider it in those terms, then the major premise of "musicality" is when someone dances "With" the music, instead of dancing "To" the music.
In TLOU, Bella Ramsey is just tone deaf here. She has no musicality at play. She's reading lines from a script. She's going through the motions of someone acting as Ellie. She doesn't capture the character. She doesn't perform to create a demand for suspension of disbelief. She's not moving with the music. She's moving to the music. Huge difference. And it's enough to drag down parts of this show.
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
oofff fml, i read all of this because of the last paragraph. talk about a swing and a miss. i’m not sure who has the keys for this alias or why it’s unblocked but casting is definitely not something the show got wrong.
fatness
Footballguy
He hates Bella Ramsey! Stay away from Bella Ramsey!
GregR
Footballguy
I like Bella Ramsey overall. This show works best as a meld of what people love about the game, plus a TV show that people not invested in the game will also be able to love. And she does a very good Ellie portrayal. There are so many spots along the way that I'm impressed how she captured the emotions and energy of the game character. She has acting chops to pull that off.
Only thing I wish is that she had a little bit more vulnerability in her facial appearance. It helps make some of the moments, like saving Joel that first time, a bit more poignant if there's more of that vulnerable sense that she overcame.
But she doesn't need more physicality. Ellie lacks great physicality, and gets by on grit and a will to struggle. Ramsey is already matching Ellie's physicality. Anything more wouldn't fit the character.
If I had my impossible dream wish for her casting it would have been a 15 year old Natalie Portman. About the age she was in Beautiful Girls. But Bella's doing an outstanding job in my book.
Only thing I wish is that she had a little bit more vulnerability in her facial appearance. It helps make some of the moments, like saving Joel that first time, a bit more poignant if there's more of that vulnerable sense that she overcame.
But she doesn't need more physicality. Ellie lacks great physicality, and gets by on grit and a will to struggle. Ramsey is already matching Ellie's physicality. Anything more wouldn't fit the character.
If I had my impossible dream wish for her casting it would have been a 15 year old Natalie Portman. About the age she was in Beautiful Girls. But Bella's doing an outstanding job in my book.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I thought the acting was great by both young ladies. Elle is going to mop up whatever awards they dish out.
Couple random thoughts:
While everything was well done, I’m really not interested in watching two adolescents fall in love.
This was episode 7. Usually episode 7s are just filler before a season really ramps up towards the cliffhanger finale. The last time they did the stand on it’s own style it’s was episode 3. Going forward It will be interesting to see if they use those two slots in the season to do more of these type of episodes.
On people complaining about the girls knowing the finishing moves.= I guess that puts in perspective when I bitched about Frank walking out in the middle of the street shooting in #3. Sometimes we just gotta let go and enjoy the ride.
Couple random thoughts:
While everything was well done, I’m really not interested in watching two adolescents fall in love.
This was episode 7. Usually episode 7s are just filler before a season really ramps up towards the cliffhanger finale. The last time they did the stand on it’s own style it’s was episode 3. Going forward It will be interesting to see if they use those two slots in the season to do more of these type of episodes.
On people complaining about the girls knowing the finishing moves.= I guess that puts in perspective when I bitched about Frank walking out in the middle of the street shooting in #3. Sometimes we just gotta let go and enjoy the ride.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Not today, Satan!!!
Definitely my least favorite episode by far. First, when we met FINRA and Joel/Teas early on, it sure didn’t seem like it would be that easy to sneak around. Second, her friend had been at the mall a while, so a surprise attack seems a bit silly but I guess we could assume she just got there. One would think she was gone long enough that the fireflies would have cleared the space. Heck, seems like it would have been a solid base.
I really like episode 3, but the acting/story was so much better in that episode than this one. I don’t mind a good back story, Lost was one of my favorite shows.
I really like episode 3, but the acting/story was so much better in that episode than this one. I don’t mind a good back story, Lost was one of my favorite shows.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Fantastic autocorrect here. I could totally see FINRA running the post apocalypse with an iron fist.
Johnnie Nepal
Footballguy
Adding to the foreshadowing conversation... I'm sure everyone picked up Pearl Jam's Riot Act poster in Elle's Wyoming bedroom and then an episode later she was rocking a Riot Act cassette listening to All or None.
I think that was just a typo. Is it FENRA? I guess I could google but I’m on a work call.
FEDRA
CGRdrJoe
Footballguy
quite simply, FEDRA are the Feds and the fireflies are the militia.
Federal Disaster Response Agency- They run the QZs (Quarantine Zones)
Fireflies- these are the rebels that want to overthrow FEDRA
parrot
Footballguy
In the game I literally cuss every time I miss a shot because ammo is so hard to come by.
Corporation
Angry Bovine
I
I had the exact same thought!
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I thought most people “hated” that episode.
I don’t mind the backstory episodes here, but would agree this one was a little too stretched thin and would have worked better if shorter.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
The Last of Us HBO: S1E6 - Joel x Tommy "All I've ever done is fail her" Feb 19, 2023
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfqA0SiKzf8
*******
Episode 6 made it all but impossible for Joel to avoid being the new Ned Stark. The consistent tone is written in a glaring manner to soften the blow for the audience. Joel is past his prime, too old, too slow, too sentimental, too soaked in PTSD, too many old lingering injuries and to top it all off, the conversation with Maria invokes the death knell. In this kind of world building, everyone has to pay for their sins eventually.
Maria points out and infers that younger Joel and Tommy were some kind of bandits, and inflicted violence and murder on others to survive in the beginning stages of the fall of society as a whole. This isn't just light foreshadowing, it's literally a huge neon sign to set a footprint for future storylines.
Basic storytelling convention - When you have an introductory character going through a "hero's journey" or a full rite of passage, then to carry the full breadth of being someone like Michael Corleone, he has to emerge from the shadow of his father, Vito, and the logistical roadblock in his older brother Sonny. If you look at how basic writing is broken down in TV and film, there is always a necessity for being economical with dialogue, scenes and interaction. Every scene needs to be doing 6-7 things at once. Every character interaction needs to achieve 3-4 different things at once.
This is why shows like Wheel Of Time and Rings Of Power struggled so much. You could remove whole scenes and some whole characters and lose nothing. Find me a great movie, a film considered timeless, and I'll show you a film with no waste in it. Every scene is critical. Every interaction and piece of dialogue is doing something to further the narrative.
You can't really remove Obi Wan Kenobi from the first Star Wars film. A New Hope can't function without Luke Skywalker facing a trial, a part of his rite of passage. He can't do that if Obi Wan is there to fight his battles for him. When everyone was trying to rescue Princess Leia, it was evident that Obi Wan wasn't going to make it back. Because that's another part of basic storytelling convention. Each major conflict must come at some cost. The loss must be evident.
Joel, as constructed by Craig Mazin, is on borrowed time. From a practical perspective, the question then becomes can Bella Ramsey carry a show on her own.
The answer is No. She's not "bankable" She doesn't have the movie star / lead TV star appeal. She doesn't have a built in audience. I don't think David Boreanz is all that interesting as an actor. But he has a built in audience. People who loved Whedon's Buffy/Angel series will follow him. He had a hit show in Bones where that will create an audience for him. And he's had another current decent length running series in SEAL Team. He's "bankable" to some degree. You know you can get a leading man, with the right aesthetic, and has shown he can carry a show or at least half of it.
So what's the fix? You do a time leap, and you recast.
Ramsey's representation has to see this coming. So they've hedged it by forcing Ramsey to make some public statements that make it much harder to kick her off the show. That part is actually an interesting discussion, because it's a practical strategy, but again, we can't have that talk here because Tim will start setting this place on fire and start throwing the furniture around the room in the FFA. Who are we kidding about it.
It's easy to write her out of the show. Start S2 several years in the future. Pick up a somewhat older actress with a little more resume.
Bella Ramsey is supposed to be 14 in the show's timeline. But she looks like she's 10 or 11. You have a show about the end of the world. So force on force is going to happen at some point. Do you want to see a girl who looks 10-11 years old in S2 running around pretending to be John Wick or cutting people's throats or having HBO standard semi-graphic sex scenes?
The same reasons Ramsey is ripe to be recast in a time jump is the same reason why no one will cast Haley Joel Osment as the lead in an action movie.
Her "quirks" that some might find endearing because she might remind someone of their own daughter or a student in their class as a teacher or a friend's kid, will turn old real fast if she's asked to carry a show. Then the limitations in her performance become glaring.
If you understand how writers write to maximize economy with the most impact, then you can see where most of the future story arcs will go.
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Nah chatgpt is too woke
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Counterpoint: Fly is the one and only episode of Breaking Bad that I insta-skip if I'm doing a rewatch. Nobody has time to sit through that one more than once.
No opinion on the latest episode of TLOU. I just can't allow this praise for Fly to go unchallenged.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
When's the last time you were out of the house, bro?
fatness
Footballguy
Just came here to post this about the GG account and who's running it.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Seriously. She’s actually 19.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
VIDEO: THE LAST OF US 4K HDR | Talking Fungus on 1968's Television Show - Opening Scene (S1E1) Jan 16, 2023
“What if the world were to get slightly warmer?....We lose....”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLNagvJHl3g
shuke
Joined Apr 14, 2003
Messages - 55,751
GordonGekko
Joined Oct 19, 2006
Messages - 3,489
**********
What can be gleaned from the basic writing convention if you focus on the concept of "economy" of jamming as many call backs, plot points, character development and pay offs into as few scenes as possible?
1) We know little to nothing about Ellie's parents.
2) We know this "Marlene", the leader of the Fireflies ( or so is believed , she might just be a high level minion) mentions she had some previous relationship/friendship with Ellie's mother.
3) The nature of Ellie's "immunity" will have to be rooted in something practical and not violate basic suspension of disbelief. There will be no magic "Cylon blood" that will cure Laura Roslin's cancer here.
4) Separation of children from parents in a narrative will usually require some kind of "token" item. It links the past with the present. It serves as "key" to the interaction if the characters ever meet again. In Guardians Of The Galaxy, the mix tapes left for Peter Quill by his mother is an example of this. For Ellie, she has few to no possessions. So it's either the book of puns, or it's the switchblade that the camera kept lingering on just a few seconds too long during dorm room scene.
5) The Henry / Sam dynamic creates a cautionary tale for Joel. The entire Kansas City area went into total chaos, full of murder and tyranny, much of it over Melanie Lynskey's never ending grudge against Henry. And that rooted from Henry refusing to let Sam die. What is the value of one life against the well being and safety of the collective? That's a very hard question. It's one both Joel and Marlene have had to ask themselves about Ellie, and even Tommy too ( refusing to get on the radio to talk to Joel, because he had to weigh the safety of his yet to be born child)
6) The advent of the "Mystery Box" show, becoming normalized in mainstream television since the breakout hit of JJ Abram's Lost, requires a misdirect in the narrative. The core premise is that Ellie is the cure and she carries the cure inside of her. But the writing convention leans towards making that the misdirect. While she currently won't turn if bitten, the real answer is clearly in her past. If you want the cure, you need to go into Ellie's past.
World War Z (2013) - Zombie On Laboratory (3) | HD Sep 13, 2018
Gerry Lane went to WHO where they got research people about how to fool the zombies, but Gerry Lane had to deal with zombies inside the WHO building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTvU8yJJNOQ
WORLD WAR Z Clip - "Zombie Camouflage" (2013) Jan 12, 2022 #WorldWarZ
PLOT: Former United Nations employee Gerry Lane traverses the world in a race against time to stop a zombie pandemic that is toppling armies and governments and threatens to destroy humanity itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTz5MOGnDS0
Ellie can't get infected because there is something already in her that the fungus can't overcome. Something worse. She's the wrong kind of host. I.E. much like World War Z.
What can I infer from the writing convention?
1) John Hannah, in the opening scene, will be back in some fashion. The shifts in his tone inflection denote not what might happen, but what he's already done in secret.
2) Ellie was not the only hope for a cure. But she's clearly the last. It's obvious that Marlene was reluctant in her brief scenes because there was no other choice. The other cure options had failed. The "chicken sandwich" , rare for their world, was not based on Marlene's obligation for a cure ( i.e. taking care of the "cargo"), but a manifestation of her guilt. I.E. "At least I gave her a good life until the inevitable" It's a physical display of Marlene's rationalization.
3) Joel's past as a marauder / looter / scavenger / murderer is going to require a sacrifice. No one gets to escape their ugly previous legacy in this world. You have to own all your sins eventually.
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