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I think it's obvious Ellie became a surrogate for his lost daughter and he couldn't stand to lose a second daughter for "the cause". His first daughter was shot down for no good reason - just to slow the spread - and the same could very well have happened here - since they didn't know if the "cure" would actually work.
Yeah, it’s about his daughter. He’s still trying to make up for that mistake of his. Not sure killing a bunch of people trying to save the world was the answer.
He did it because of what they had become. They were willing to murder a young child without knowing if it would do any good. I’m not sure he killed the “good guys” here.
Of course but he’s now closed off the one thing that she wanted: hope and purpose.
She also seems to want stability and a family too.
Well I thought it would take a lot longer to actually reach the hospital for starters. I wasn’t even sure they ever would reach that location. So it’s a bit more open ended than if they want to use this kid as medical experiment, could that cause her serious harm?
Seems impossible in this world.
I agree totally. But I see that as fitting together with the "Joel is a bad guy" takes. Joel was fine with taking Ellie across the country on an incredibly dangerous trip that probably neither of them would survive for the purpose of making one last desperate attempt to save humanity. Along the way, the caught the dad-feels for her and that brought back all the pain of losing his daughter and all of that. And the end of it all, he chose his own personal feelings over the preservation of species. If one were so inclined, one could easily spin this into a story about how human feelings/relationships bring out the best in us but also lead to our downfall.
There are heroes, morally ambiguous heroes, anti-heroes, and villains. An argument could be made for Joel being one or all of them.
Yeah, Joel and everyone else on this show (with exception of a couple clear villains). Seems like it is just me, but I found it really hard to connect with any character on this show, maybe with the exception of Henry. Also an odd combo of no development and too much development episodes.
100%. Is humanity worth saving?
This is what I keep telling myself every election cycle and it keeps not happening.
In my defense I thought we had another episode to go lol
Personally, I doubt it. Things that are cool in video games don't necessarily translate well to the screen (and vice versa). If I were making this show, I would focus on human drama and not so much on the action, and it sounds like that's mostly the tack they've taken so far. I'd be a little surprised if they changed that going forward.
No probably not. Let’s be real here
Think that’s why he did kill him. Wasn’t the statement or the scalpel he was holding. There is a chance he’s the last person on earth with that knowledge. He’s not going to have to go through this again down the road.
Her body, her choice.
Marlene said otherwise.
THIS.
**** no. My two daughters will live and the rest of you will just have to die. Sorry, not sorry.
I've never played the game, but now that the series is over I've started watching it nightly with my wife. Unless there's a reversal of what I've seen in the first 3 episodes, the finale will involve one person trying to protect one person.
Yeah, they're crazy or have some silly agenda or something. She's intelligent but also doesn't know some practical things about the world, and is quite adept at learning how to deal with and manipulate those older and more powerful than herself, to whom she knows she has value. In the first 3 episodes I've seen (just started watching it) she's a 14-year-old orphan who then is left in a world where a fungus is eating mankind. She seems to be handling it and herself very well. Very well-acted role through 3 episodes.
I don’t know squat about the second game, but I didn’t get a good feeling that Ellie truly believed him.
I was surprised they not only found them, but how fast the whole plot advanced in like twenty minutes. I wasn't expecting Ell being in danger from the doctors, but I don't have a conspiracy theory brain default at all.
Wait till season two and three…..you will find out all of that.
If it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't even know about the various stages of the infected (clickers, etc.) - maybe it's something I missed, While I'm glad they weren't the real focus of the show, a little more background there would have been nice. Except for the one scene where they came flowing out of the hole at the farm (which also wasn't really explained), they did not seem like much of a threat.
The show creator said they couldn’t really focus on them because it’s not like a video game where you can just respawn and I guess it’s not terribly realistic (lol) to keep fighting those things off without getting a bite or scratch.
The main woman told Joel that they did not tell Ellie about the operation, that she was unconscious and would feel no pain.
The fact that she gave Joel the knife, knowing it was Ellie's mom's that was given to her at birth, meant she knew that Ellie had 0% chance of survival. I don't know that Ellie makes that choice now that she has Joel -- someone who cares about her, protects her, and made evident that he wouldn't leave her behind.
Interestingly in the game, you cannot advance until you kill the doctor. Most other spots in the game, you can attempt to sneak by (or ignore) enemies and be on your way. I remember playing it and thinking, this guy has no gun, no training, I'll just grab her and go. But you can't.
Agreed, I know very little about any of that, having not played the game. Seemed like if you are not in a metro, this is no threat at all.
I connect with Joel 100%. Ironically I also have a fourteen year old daughter named El, lol. I would have done exactly what he did under the circumstances. There has to be other doctors with better ideas out there imo. Keeping Ell alive is the #1 priority now.
Just to be clear... when I say I did not connect to the characters, I mean I did not really care what became of them. I understand what he did, and generally why. I think I'd need to see more about the challenges they overcame together in a 4000 mile trek to appreciate the characters and the depth of his/Ellie's relationship arc. The show just cut that out and instead presented one off interactions moving from apathy, to puns, to epiphany change of heart re: sending his brother - to force viewers to understand changed relationship. For me, the arc seemed too force-fed to draw me into true understanding "yeah, that guy would totally kill 15 people given the depth of the relationship."
It's easy enough to assume that with all that time passage, that would happen. I don't need to see it on screen myself. Would have been a waste of time. They did enough.
Yes - they make it clear at the beginning of the last episode that Joel has come a long way with his relationship with Ellie.
Yeah, no one is wrong for having a different viewing experience. I totally recognize I'm on an island with a finale impression "Boy, they spent a lot of time on things that had no significance, and not enough on the things that should." Even things like Marlene questioning how he had made it when no one could do that, my internal reaction was "Did what?" As far as the viewer knows they may not have experienced a single interaction if not for a poor driving decision in KC.
