Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
***Official*** Washington Redskins 2015 Offseason Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sebowski
- Start date
Just when you thought the Redskins offseason couldn't get any crazier --
IMO, the biggest problem with this whole QB stuff is not how it's been handled from a talent evaluation standpoint, it's how it's been managed in the media. From the start, Gruden should not have proclaimed Griffin the starter. He should have said it's an open competition; if Robert wants it go out and get it. Then let all the guys play it out on the field and make the decision after week 3. But this whole: RGIII is our guy, no he's not, he's got a concussion, no he doesn't, cousins is the starter, no wait he's not...that's the thing that makes it seem like a circus. Gruden needs to just grow a set and say what he means and if f-ing Dan wants to fire him, just let it happen. I don't think the rest of the league will hold it against him; they know Snyder is a lunatic.
But, that said, it's NOT a circus or incompetant to admit that Griffin has not clearly won the starting job and that the other guys can compete for the job. In fact, he honestly should not have been anointed starter at the beginning of the season. If Griffin is so thin skinned that he can't compete for the job, then honestly, he's too thin skinned to go into battle as a pro QB. Enough of this, "but what about his confidence" crap...you are a grown man, just go out and TAKE the job.
In my opinion, based on what we've seen, it would be the height of incompetence to start Griffin in Week 1. Apart from us giving up a ton for him and the owner loving him, there is NO reason to give him the starting job. No credible football people are saying he should start. Credible football people are not saying the problem is that "Gruden hates him." Credible football people are saying that he just hasn't grasped fundamentals of the position. So this latest bit about Gruden and SM wanting to start Cousins...that is not a sign of incompetence, despite what snarky posters on the Internet want to say. Incompetance would be rolling with Griffin no matter what because "we gave up too much for him." The ONLY way I would change my mind on that is if we were willing to play the same kind of offsense Kyle drew up in 2012 and Robert was healthy enough and willing to do it. But that doesn't seem to be in the cards, and Griffin has not show the ability to adapt to other styles. So what can you do...he's just not the man for the job anymore.
As for Cousins, who knows if he'll turn out to be a legitimate starter. All I know is he's the most deserving of the job today, from the limited options they have right now. Cousin's problem to date has been one thing: Interceptions when he presses. And because of this, many say he will always suck. Maybe. But he is not the only QB who has thrown a lot of picks when he is starting out, so there is a chance that he can retain the good part of his game (quick decisions, fast release, hitting the right guy, etc.) while improving on the bad part (Interceptions). It's amazing to me the number of people who 3 years in say, 'give Robert time to learn the game" and who then turn around and say, "Cousins is a turnover machine and always will be one" as if one guy has the ability to grow and the other one doesn't. Either way, the bottom line is, if you stood back and looked at it objectively, I think you'd have to say that Cousins gives you the better chance to win right now, at least in Gruden's system. If he ends up sucking this year, well then I guess we're back to square one. But just saying Cousins in a turnover machine or whatever still doesn't mean you shouldn't start him. the only thing you have to decide is: who gives us the best chance to win RIGHT NOW. This business of playing for a pick is crazy. We could start Ryan Leaf for gosh sakes, luck box into 4 wins, and end up picking 5th, not 1st.
ANyway, I'm sure it's going to be another doozy of a season. I just want to see the Skins show some ballz and play the best guy for the position.
All I really know is I'm going to be doing a lot of drinking during the games this season.
IMO, the biggest problem with this whole QB stuff is not how it's been handled from a talent evaluation standpoint, it's how it's been managed in the media. From the start, Gruden should not have proclaimed Griffin the starter. He should have said it's an open competition; if Robert wants it go out and get it. Then let all the guys play it out on the field and make the decision after week 3. But this whole: RGIII is our guy, no he's not, he's got a concussion, no he doesn't, cousins is the starter, no wait he's not...that's the thing that makes it seem like a circus. Gruden needs to just grow a set and say what he means and if f-ing Dan wants to fire him, just let it happen. I don't think the rest of the league will hold it against him; they know Snyder is a lunatic.
But, that said, it's NOT a circus or incompetant to admit that Griffin has not clearly won the starting job and that the other guys can compete for the job. In fact, he honestly should not have been anointed starter at the beginning of the season. If Griffin is so thin skinned that he can't compete for the job, then honestly, he's too thin skinned to go into battle as a pro QB. Enough of this, "but what about his confidence" crap...you are a grown man, just go out and TAKE the job.
In my opinion, based on what we've seen, it would be the height of incompetence to start Griffin in Week 1. Apart from us giving up a ton for him and the owner loving him, there is NO reason to give him the starting job. No credible football people are saying he should start. Credible football people are not saying the problem is that "Gruden hates him." Credible football people are saying that he just hasn't grasped fundamentals of the position. So this latest bit about Gruden and SM wanting to start Cousins...that is not a sign of incompetence, despite what snarky posters on the Internet want to say. Incompetance would be rolling with Griffin no matter what because "we gave up too much for him." The ONLY way I would change my mind on that is if we were willing to play the same kind of offsense Kyle drew up in 2012 and Robert was healthy enough and willing to do it. But that doesn't seem to be in the cards, and Griffin has not show the ability to adapt to other styles. So what can you do...he's just not the man for the job anymore.
As for Cousins, who knows if he'll turn out to be a legitimate starter. All I know is he's the most deserving of the job today, from the limited options they have right now. Cousin's problem to date has been one thing: Interceptions when he presses. And because of this, many say he will always suck. Maybe. But he is not the only QB who has thrown a lot of picks when he is starting out, so there is a chance that he can retain the good part of his game (quick decisions, fast release, hitting the right guy, etc.) while improving on the bad part (Interceptions). It's amazing to me the number of people who 3 years in say, 'give Robert time to learn the game" and who then turn around and say, "Cousins is a turnover machine and always will be one" as if one guy has the ability to grow and the other one doesn't. Either way, the bottom line is, if you stood back and looked at it objectively, I think you'd have to say that Cousins gives you the better chance to win right now, at least in Gruden's system. If he ends up sucking this year, well then I guess we're back to square one. But just saying Cousins in a turnover machine or whatever still doesn't mean you shouldn't start him. the only thing you have to decide is: who gives us the best chance to win RIGHT NOW. This business of playing for a pick is crazy. We could start Ryan Leaf for gosh sakes, luck box into 4 wins, and end up picking 5th, not 1st.
ANyway, I'm sure it's going to be another doozy of a season. I just want to see the Skins show some ballz and play the best guy for the position.
All I really know is I'm going to be doing a lot of drinking during the games this season.
I went back 5 years:
in 2010 you would have passed on Trent Williams for Tim Tebow
in 2011 you would have passed on Ryan Kerrigan for Andy Dalton
in 2012 you got Robert Griffin III
in 2013 you would have passed on David Amerson for Mike Glennon (if the Griffin trade didn't happen you'd be in a position to get Geno Smith)
in 2014 you would have passed on Trent Murphy for Jimmy Garoppolo (again without the Griffin trade you'd be in a position to draft Blake Bortles or Johnny Manziel)
in 2015 you would have passed on Brandon Schereff for Bryce Petty.
You have an interesting strategy.
Milkman
Footballguy
No because we would have won less games. So we would have been picking #1 when luck came out. Then how are we looking?
nittanylion
Footballguy
I was searching for dirt on Diana Marie Russini, and found a twitter account that would appear to have a connection, whether contrived, or otherwise, with one 'Dianna' from 'NBC' (which is where Russini locally worked here before moving on to ESPN). Although we can't see the face, the body looks remarkably similar.
Here is current twitter. There are plenty of pics to compare with, though not many so revealing...
https://twitter.com/diannaespn?lang=en
I'd love to have discovered a 'whoops, thought I deleted that account' moment on her. She annoys me.
Last edited by a moderator:
B-Deep
Footballguy
if they stopped at dalton they'd be ahead of the game
not that he's peyton manning or anything, but ya know, comparatively speaking he is not so bad
Here's the bottom line with Cousins: can he fix the Interceptions? If he can, then he may be good enough to lead a team that has some talent around him. if he cannot, he'll be Rex Grossman, part Deux.
For Griffin, it's can he learn the fundamentals of the game -- no how far to drop back, how to avoid pressure in the pocket, how to read the field, how to get rid of the ball quickly, etc.
Arguably, Griffin has more things to fix than Cousins -- at least in terms of a DROP BACK QB.
It's all about whether Cousins can erase the Interceptions. If he can, we may have something. If we can't, it's back to square one. Personally, I would rather give Cousins the start than Griffin because I think Griffin just has too much to fix ... I think Cousins has a better chance at finding success therefore.
dehaven123
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
dehaven123
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Remember you'd be talking about Andy Dalton playing behind the Redskins' line without Trent Williams. In other words, the mangled, unrecognizable corpse of Andy Dalton.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
attempting to tune out all the reckless articles and tweets until we get something official from the team.nittanylion
Footballguy
Dear Lord, if we're looking to get better at QB, the answer is neither Matt Cassel or EJ Manuel. Not sure if that's what you're trying to say here, or send Griffin to Buffalo because there are similarities to Ty Taylor, and he'd serve as a complement in a backup capacity. If you're thinking that we could get a QB out of them in return, I'd rather roll with Cousins and McCoy than either of the Bills other 2.
Personally, I'd love to see Griffin shipped off to Siberia, err...Buffalo. Might take a little something out of the attitude.
Personally, I'd love to see Griffin shipped off to Siberia, err...Buffalo. Might take a little something out of the attitude.
Actually, I was assuming that we'd just roll with Cousins and see how that goes this year.
I think, if we're done with Griffin as a starter, though, we need to get him off the roster. Otherwise, it's going to be non-stop circus, distractions all year. The first time Cousins throws an INT, the media will release "sources" that say Griffin is going to start. I just think we need to cut the cord.
In terms of why Buffalo, I honestly think even with his issues, Griffin is better than Taylor and he'd be an upgrade in Buffalo. Ryan obviously wants to commit to the run and pass as second option and that game sets up well for Griffin's talents. I just think seriously it may be a better fit for him.
I wouldn't be looking for Cassell or Manuel, maybe just a mid or low round draft selection...
flapgreen
Footballguy
The latter
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
nittanylion
Footballguy
To some degree, I agree with flapgreen...and Jay's not very good at it either. If you watch him when he's taking questions at press conferences, there are times he looks directly at the reporter(s), and times (mostly when asked about Griffin) he breaks eye contact and exhibit behaviors associated with someone not telling the truth.
I wish he was better at it.
I also have no problem with it. Properly run football operations always play an information game with the media; distractions, misdirection, red herrings and such. Sometimes too much truth is too much exposure. I think some of what we're seeing with this is, again, what you get when you have a real Football Ops guy running the show out of the GM spot.
I don't think it was Snyder that told Gruden to shut it regarding his distaste for Griffin. Snyder has never been great about controlling the message, if you think about it. Rather, I think it was McCloughan repairing some franchise dysfunction:
"Hey Jay, look here, I know you don't care much for the Griffin kid, and quite frankly neither do I...but listen to me, Jay...we're not doing ourselves any faovrs making that public knowledge. Nobody needs to know how we feel, except us. On the surface, we need to present a unified 'sunshine and roses' front. As far as the media, the fans and the other 31 teams needs to know, everything's fine here at Redskins Park. If Dan lets me do my thing, I'll get you the type of QB you say you need to run your offense...but that's probably going to take jettisoning the kid, and that's going to take some doing with Dan, and with the other Teams. Dan doesn't want to look like an idiot for having pissed away 3 1's and a 2, and he's going to want me to get back every penny I can scrape from the Team that agrees to take him off our hands. I don't need you, or anyone else around here, saying anything that drives what little value he has, down, you know?"
MattFancy
Footballguy
I really want to know how this all happened so quickly. Was Griffin that bad in practices? I thought he looked alright against Cleveland. Would have been much better if Garcon doesn't drop that deep pass.
Detroit was a train wreck, but hard to put that all on Griffin. Hell, Cousins was the 3rd QB in that game.
Cousins was battling for the #2 job just 2 weeks ago and is now the unquestioned starter for all of 2015? What happened?
This would make a great 30 for 30.
Detroit was a train wreck, but hard to put that all on Griffin. Hell, Cousins was the 3rd QB in that game.
Cousins was battling for the #2 job just 2 weeks ago and is now the unquestioned starter for all of 2015? What happened?
This would make a great 30 for 30.
dhockster
Footballguy
I don't know if this is true or not, but someone said Griffin was changing to the wrong line protections against Detroit. This may have led to him getting hit so much. And ultimately that would be a good reason not to start him if he can't get the protections right.
Cooley has been bashing him for the entire offseason, and he's been to many (most?) of the practices.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Cooley is so wishy washy with players. It's hard to take everything he says as gospel because he's said numerous times that he and Cousins are good friends. Then I thought I remember hearing a couple weeks ago that Cooley was praising Griffin. So who knows.
Yeah, now that you mention it I do recall some of the Cousins friendship talk. He's been very guarded in his "praise" of Robert, from what I've heard. It's always been something like "he looked alright", and "there were some good things today", but never anything glowing.
Now, that could certainly be some personal bias, there's no way for me to tell.
msommer
Footballguy
dehaven123
Footballguy
guaranteed contract this yr or not, I'd put the odds at 50/50 that RG3 is on the 53 man roster come wk1. If you've made the decision to move on, as i think they have, $3M is a small impediment when taking the locker room into account.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Right, I'm not saying Cooley is 100% bias, but I don't think he's ever had glowing reviews for Griffin.
Just so strange to me again how this happened so quickly. From all TC reports I read, I don't remember anyone saying Cousins looked particularly great or anything. Seemed like he had better reviews last season. So what changed everyone's minds so quickly?
Last edited by a moderator:
jurb26
Footballguy
Apparently Casserly has his finger on the pulse here.
Last edited by a moderator:
MattFancy
Footballguy
I'm not sure what to expect from Cousins this year. The offense does seem to move better with him, but we all know he's a turnover machine. I've always said he's like a younger Rex Grossman. I haven't really seen anything so far that's made me change my stance.
I still don't see this team winning more than 6 games if everything breaks right. Seems like 4-12 is the likely possibility.
I still don't see this team winning more than 6 games if everything breaks right. Seems like 4-12 is the likely possibility.
Last year it seemed when Cousins would throw an INT he'd get caught up in it and not be able to recover. I liked how on Saturday he threw one and it looked like he just shook it off.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I did notice that and it was a good sign. However, he did get lucky on that tipped ball that ended up being a TD for the Skins. That's usually the kind of pass that gets intercepted more often than not. Cousins certainly still has work to do. Will he be better? I'm not sure. But I guess we're going to find out.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
MattFancy
Footballguy
Yup. That's what is so strange. Even if Gruden has always preferred Cousins to Griffin, then why make Cousins have to battle for the #2 job coming into camp? Just doesn't make sense to me. Same as last year when Cousins was the #3 once he got benched. Didn't understand that one either.
Not saying he couldn't have improved, but just seems like a sudden change without much actually happening on the field.
You do realize that Cooley makes no bones about the fact that he is only going from what is on the coaches tape. He is evaluating players as if he were a coach, grading them as he was graded. Sure, there is some bias there, but then any coach has bias in the grades he gives his players.
Cooley has been saying going back to last season that Super Bob missed open receivers, didn't understand protection schemes and in general didn't have the fundamentals necessary to be an NFL QB. He tried to give him the benefit of the doubt this season, but didn't see any improvement.
Sonny Jurgensen said the same thing about the pass that Garcon dropped against Cleveland. Sure, if he caught it, RGIII's stats would have looked better, but it still came out late, and on the wrong shoulder. It wouldn't have indicated that RG was a polished pocket passer.
Well, at least he stayed upright for the whole game. I don't think he's got half the upside that RG3 has, but there's no question that he has a real feel for pressure and pocket presence. Or at least, he does compared to Bob.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I'm not trying to say Griffin has been great, but from listening to Cooley, it seemed pretty clear he was never a fan of Griffin.
And sure, maybe the throw was a tad late and to the wrong shoulder, but Garcon got readjusted and the ball just went right through his hands. That's a catch he needs to make. And this was also on the 1st/2nd? drive of the 1st preseason game.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Well he also had the benefit of having Trent Williams out there against Baltimore.
Griffin didn't get sacked against Cleveland when Trent was out there.
MattFancy
Footballguy
And made some good throws before getting hit pretty hard.
Look, I'm supporting Cousins since he's the starter, but I still don't think he's the answer here.
Get a new coach and QB in here next year and get things figured out.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Skins fans, can we shift gears in here to talk my favorite new sleeper RB?
Matt Jones has impressed me this preseason more than any rookie RB not named Ameer. I think you guys scored a real gem here. I foresee a second half surge by this kid this season. Dude has burst and lateral agility that I don't see in guys his size, plus soft hands and decent blocking ability. More, please.
Matt Jones has impressed me this preseason more than any rookie RB not named Ameer. I think you guys scored a real gem here. I foresee a second half surge by this kid this season. Dude has burst and lateral agility that I don't see in guys his size, plus soft hands and decent blocking ability. More, please.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I do really like Jones. It sucks because I'm a huge Morris fan, but I don't see how Jones isn't the starter in 2016.
dhockster
Footballguy
While overall, Cousins played below average last year, he did show some flashes, like the first game against Philadelphia. The good news for the Redskins is that they are in year two of the offense, so Cousins should be more familiar with what he is doing, and all the other offensive players around him should be more familiar with what they are doing. That alone, I think, will help the Redskins show improvement on offense. If they don't, then I don't think it will say very much about Gruden as an offensive coach.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Agreed. This is Cousins chance to really prove himself to be an NFL QB. He's had 2 other shots and hasn't done much with them. This very well could be his last.
The Skins at least have some decent guys on offense in DJax, Morris and Garcon.
Matt Jones looks really good. I think he will be gold in the subscriber contest and is worth a flier in a redraft league.
dehaven123
Footballguy
For all the grief Dan Snyder gets(and god knows he deserves it), let s give him credit here. Instead of meddling and pushing rg3 onto the GM and HC, he has stepped aside and let the football guy manage the roster and the HC pick his QB. This is the kind of normalcy I could get used to.
dhockster
Footballguy
I agree with this. The new GM has to evaluate the 2nd year coach and the only fair way to do that is to let him play the players that fit his system best.
Similar threads
