What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Officiating has ruined the NFL. (1 Viewer)

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
I've said the following many times.

This is the fault of NFL fans.

NFL refs are part-time employees that can't be disciplined for making bad calls. Of course they suck. The system is designed for crappy employees that do a bad job.

When the NFL tried to change both of these things, and we got the replacement refs, fans rioted. Every bad call was highlighted, people forgot how bad the regular refs were, and screamed and begged for the NFL to cave and bring the regular refs back. With the same lousy stipulations that made them suck in the first place.

I was screaming it at the time, as everyone here begged for the real refs back. Ya'll are forgetting how bad they are, and all caving now is going to do is guarantee that they stay bad.

There's nothing that can be done about bad reffing. Literally. It's in their contract. The contract they got because we all yelled and screamed to give them whatever they wanted so they'd come back, because in a couple months we forgot how bad they were.
I think virtually everything you said here is wrong. But carry on.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
Yet the game is just as popular as ever.

Is it though? I know thats the info the NFL does a great job of feeding us. I mean, they are surly more exposed than ever. There are more people on this planet, but do a greater percentage of them watch football now in comparison to the past?
Of course not but that is an impossible standard when you are comparing the era of three letter networks to the era of streaming and hundreds of networks.

But the NFL absolutely crushes time slots. Nothing beats it on Thursday, Sunday, Monday (and Saturdays in December). Nothing comes close.

The list of most watched shows every year is dominated by the NFL.
 

Zow

Footballguy
A few thoughts:

1. Refereeing is really, really, hard. Especially in today's game where the players are faster and stronger.
2. Refs have likely gotten better over the decades. They certainly aren't worse. But they are human.
3. It sucks when one's team (or fantasy team - cough *I had Goedert and lost by .5 thanks to the fumble*) loses on a bad call. But, it happens.
4. If I had any requested change, it would be for refs to be able to call penalties upon review that are "clear and obvious" (e.g. Goedert facemask on his fumble).
5. A lot of you guys need to go shake your fists at clouds or yell at kids skateboarding or something.
 

eighsse2

Footballguy
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:
I'm always seeing plays where I think, for instance, "What? Fumble? He was easily down!" Then I see the replay and it really was a fumble. Happens all the time and it makes me shake my head and say "How do they do it so well?" Granted, those guys are right there yards away from the action; however, each guy can only be in one place at one time and look in one direction at one time. When everything is happening so fast and all those bodies are in the way at times, I have no clue how they can orchestrate it all to be able to nail such a high percentage of calls/no-calls.
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:

Agreed. They're obviously not perfect. But I think they do an overall really good job.
I don’t. Ever since instant replay was instituted the refs have gotten lazy and depend on it to correct a call. I believe they should use it for penalties. The missed face mask call cost the Eagles the game IMO
Refs are instructed to let plays play out (especially on turnover plays) and not blow their whistles and then sort it out on replay. That’s what the league office has told them to do.
If a ref can't blow the whistle because they aren't sure a play is dead, how can a 300 pound lineman who is being blocked be expected to know what the F is going on with the QB??
 

Dickies

Footballguy
There are a lot of people in here who could fix football. Why don’t all you excellent referees start suiting up and work your way up to doing NFL games?

The reality is that the NFL likely has the best of the best officiating their games and it’s an incredibly difficult thing to do. We all complain about things because we have the luxury of dozens of slow motion replays
 

wlwiles

Footballguy
And how many teams and coaches are instructing their players to grab/hold/pull/etc. and to keep doing it until they call it? I get so frustrated as a fan on the couch everytime my team gets called for offensive holding and lose 10 yards. But the reality is that there's likely holding on almost every play, and if not then a flag could be thrown on WR/DB battles most plays...so what gets called is usually egregious. Refs have a hard enough time trying to see huge fast players do things in real time without the benefit of slo-mo and replay on everything like we fans do, but they also have to balance what they call from what they could call. Refs don't want to keep stopping the game every play for a penalty either...

NFL refs truly have one of the hardest jobs I'd think. Refs catch strays from message boards and talk shows because of the one mistake they made in a month.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
A few thoughts:

1. Refereeing is really, really, hard. Especially in today's game where the players are faster and stronger.
2. Refs have likely gotten better over the decades. They certainly aren't worse. But they are human.
3. It sucks when one's team (or fantasy team - cough *I had Goedert and lost by .5 thanks to the fumble*) loses on a bad call. But, it happens.
4. If I had any requested change, it would be for refs to be able to call penalties upon review that are "clear and obvious" (e.g. Goedert facemask on his fumble).
5. A lot of you guys need to go shake your fists at clouds or yell at kids skateboarding or something.
We collectively have had this discussion in the Shark Pool multiple times over the years after any number of bad calls. The issue becomes that many times there are uncalled penalties on almost every play, and what makes one any better or worse than another? Take your pick . . . delay of game, offensive holding, hands to the face, DPI, OPI, defensive holding, late hits, tripping, chop blocks, roughing the passer. The list is almost endless. I said then (and will reiterate now) that teams would wait until there was a game changing, 80-yard TD and then challenge that there was a penalty on the offensive line to negate the TD. What replay doesn't show an O-lineman mauling a defender, dragging him down, pushing his facemask, grabbing a jersey, having a guy hog tied as he approaches the QB?

The other thing about what we see on TV that is different than on the field is cameras typically follow the football . . . and frequently there can be penalties away from the ball. That begs the question, are those really "clear and obvious?" Replays many times show a WR getting held and obstructed 15 yards from the LOS. The QB didn't throw the ball there, but that still should be called a penalty, shouldn't it?

All of these falls under the category of the human element of football. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Would people prefer that the entire game be officiated by a computer that assesses and analyzes every play in real time and calls 40 penalties a game? Or a booth review on every play, with a 15 second delay after every play to make sure nothing was missed? I am not sure there is a good way to regulate officiating that would result in a better game day experience than what we have now.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
And how many teams and coaches are instructing their players to grab/hold/pull/etc. and to keep doing it until they call it? I get so frustrated as a fan on the couch everytime my team gets called for offensive holding and lose 10 yards. But the reality is that there's likely holding on almost every play, and if not then a flag could be thrown on WR/DB battles most plays...so what gets called is usually egregious. Refs have a hard enough time trying to see huge fast players do things in real time without the benefit of slo-mo and replay on everything like we fans do, but they also have to balance what they call from what they could call. Refs don't want to keep stopping the game every play for a penalty either...

NFL refs truly have one of the hardest jobs I'd think. Refs catch strays from message boards and talk shows because of the one mistake they made in a month.
Well, I can tell you that Bill Belichick coaches his secondary on how to get away with penalties and doesn't even hide it. He has a very informative weekly interview segment on the radio, and he openly admits to coaching up players on how to hold, grab, push off, and impede the progress of receivers based on where the refs are positioned on the field. He doesn't make it out like it's anything all that innovative or revolutionary, but he said teams have to use the field of play to their advantage, and refs aren't going to call things they can't see. This sparked some debate with the interviewers, and BB said if they start calling more penalties, he will instruct his players to back off some. But he did say they haven't been throwing flags, so why change what's been working?
 

ChiefD

Footballguy
And how many teams and coaches are instructing their players to grab/hold/pull/etc. and to keep doing it until they call it? I get so frustrated as a fan on the couch everytime my team gets called for offensive holding and lose 10 yards. But the reality is that there's likely holding on almost every play, and if not then a flag could be thrown on WR/DB battles most plays...so what gets called is usually egregious. Refs have a hard enough time trying to see huge fast players do things in real time without the benefit of slo-mo and replay on everything like we fans do, but they also have to balance what they call from what they could call. Refs don't want to keep stopping the game every play for a penalty either...

NFL refs truly have one of the hardest jobs I'd think. Refs catch strays from message boards and talk shows because of the one mistake they made in a month.
Well, I can tell you that Bill Belichick coaches his secondary on how to get away with penalties and doesn't even hide it. He has a very informative weekly interview segment on the radio, and he openly admits to coaching up players on how to hold, grab, push off, and impede the progress of receivers based on where the refs are positioned on the field. He doesn't make it out like it's anything all that innovative or revolutionary, but he said teams have to use the field of play to their advantage, and refs aren't going to call things they can't see. This sparked some debate with the interviewers, and BB said if they start calling more penalties, he will instruct his players to back off some. But he did say they haven't been throwing flags, so why change what's been working?
This is how the Chiefs are teaching their corners also. Because they also know come playoff time they tend to let things go a little bit more.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
My 17 year old son loves football and watches with me every Sunday when he's not working.
Same for me. My 17 yr old also loves watching but it is centered around FF.
We sit down and pick a DraftKings roster every week. It's a great time flipping each other the business for creating a horrible lineup. :lol:

I'm raising a degenerate.
Funny sidebar story. My three sons all have taken up some form of gambling habit. During the CIN - LAR Super Bowl, I was talking with one of them, who was explaining he bets all sorts of weird things for games besides the spread, money line, or over/under. Lots of prop bets. He went over some of them he bet for the Super Bowl, and he mentioned he got really good odds on a non-QB TD pass. I said that the only non-QB pass in the past 40+ Super Bowls was the Philly Special and what a dumb bet that was. THE VERY NEXT PLAY Joe Burrow pitched the ball to Joe Mixon, who lobbed a TD pass to Tee Higgins in the end zone. He won like three grand on that one play. I told him I should have beat him more as a child. He wins way more than he loses, so I guess I can't complain too much.
 

titusbramble

Footballguy
My main concerns are:

a) It's no longer a fair contest between receivers and the secondary. Pretty much anything a DB can do to try to compete will get flagged, usually for DPI which is a hugely disproportionate penalty

b) Excessive protection for the quarterback

c) Somewhat related but ridiculously low bars for personal fouls where there was absolutely nothing that the defender could do to prevent the foul given a quick change in position by the ball carrier and/or a quick pass by the QB

d) Inconsistency in application. If a foul is sufficiently weak for them to "let them play" during the playoffs/Super Bowl, then that should be permitted in week 1. Similar with stuff like offensive holding, that probably happens on half the plays in the game but beyond the super super obvious it is called basically at random
 

menobrown

Footballguy
When the NFL tried to change both of these things, and we got the replacement refs, fans rioted. Every bad call was highlighted, people forgot how bad the regular refs were, and screamed and begged for the NFL to cave and bring the regular refs back. With the same lousy stipulations that made them suck in the first place.
I think this was heavily media driven and no one drove that bus harder then Peter King.

I remember the MNF game between the Packers and Seattle, the Fail Mary, was when this got to a head. King had been tweeting and writing articles slamming the NFL, saying how could a multi- billion dollar business be so cheap, that kind of thing. As soon as that play happened he was on twitter bellowing out "I told you so". Doug Farrar responded to his tweet chiming in and I replied they were just trying to make up stuff, that I had watched that play multiple times and could not say it was a bad call. Was just a tough call. The Farrar guy blocked me, I actually went my first 10 years on Twitter and he was the only person to ever block me. Big baby.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
My main concerns are:

a) It's no longer a fair contest between receivers and the secondary. Pretty much anything a DB can do to try to compete will get flagged, usually for DPI which is a hugely disproportionate penalty

b) Excessive protection for the quarterback

c) Somewhat related but ridiculously low bars for personal fouls where there was absolutely nothing that the defender could do to prevent the foul given a quick change in position by the ball carrier and/or a quick pass by the QB

d) Inconsistency in application. If a foul is sufficiently weak for them to "let them play" during the playoffs/Super Bowl, then that should be permitted in week 1. Similar with stuff like offensive holding, that probably happens on half the plays in the game but beyond the super super obvious it is called basically at random
I disagree with the first one. Defenders still can get away with murder if they know what they are doing. Plus, the number of DPI calls per game is lower this year than in recent seasons. DPI calls have dropped from 1.29 calls per game in 2020 to 0.97 calls per game in 2022 so far. Illegal contact calls are down from 1.84 per game in 2020 to 1.34 per game in 2022 so far. I think the issue many people have is the timing of DPI and illegal contact penalties, as it seems like they come at back breaking times that can swing the outcome of games.
 

Chaka

Footballguy
a) It's no longer a fair contest between receivers and the secondary. Pretty much anything a DB can do to try to compete will get flagged, usually for DPI which is a hugely disproportionate penalty

b) Excessive protection for the quarterback
a) 100% agree that the DPI penalty needs to be changed to, at most 15 yards. It's insane that anything can amount to a 50+ yard penalty. Then again, I'd only give 15 yards if someone went full Billy Cole.

b) disagree here for the most part. Let's be real, no one wants to watch John Wolford v Colt McCoy. You don't, I don't and the casual fan, who the NFL does 99% of their marketing for, definitely doesn't want to watch that.

It sucks but you gotta protect the franchise. On the notion of penalties, I would probably be on board for removing Loss of Down from intentional grounding in favor of, say, a 10 yard penalty (or even a spot foul). It might encourage QBs to get rid of the ball quicker and avoid some of those silly roughing penalties.
 

menobrown

Footballguy
And put me in the camp that says the NFL referee's do a pretty good job. It's not them, it's the rules and to be more exact it's the owners.

In most of the history of the NFL teams were not owned by billionaire. Most of the fortune of team owners was the value of the team. As team values have sky rocketed and we are getting these $4-5 billion teams we are seeing a different kind of owner. This group cares a lot less about the integrity of the game, IMO anyway, and is far more concerned with printing money. So we got all these rules in place to protect QB's and player safety to protect their investment and also to try and not get sued by the NFLPA.

Hate to sound like an old timer, but I am. And I can just recall stuff like a WR or TE being described as "not afraid to go over the middle". That's because the way you defended receivers was to put punishing hits on them which worked as a deterrent to throw as often. Now we get treated to BS defenseless receiver stuff. That's literally the heart of the game they are ripping out because they want teams to pass more and not have skill players get hurt.

A year or two ago I watched the James Harrison NFL Life special and concluded he simply could not play in today's NFL. He's just wrack up to many penalties and suspensions and that was not that long ago.

Long story short for me I get player safety concerns, I don't have a big issue with refs, but I got a major issue with trying to take so much physicality of the game. I won't quit it but I can say for sure if I did not play fantasy and did not gamble I could take or leave a lot of games . NFL games would not longer be appointment TV.

I miss sloberknocker football.

Old man rant over.
 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
When the NFL tried to change both of these things, and we got the replacement refs, fans rioted. Every bad call was highlighted, people forgot how bad the regular refs were, and screamed and begged for the NFL to cave and bring the regular refs back. With the same lousy stipulations that made them suck in the first place.
I think this was heavily media driven and no one drove that bus harder then Peter King.

I remember the MNF game between the Packers and Seattle, the Fail Mary, was when this got to a head. King had been tweeting and writing articles slamming the NFL, saying how could a multi- billion dollar business be so cheap, that kind of thing. As soon as that play happened he was on twitter bellowing out "I told you so". Doug Farrar responded to his tweet chiming in and I replied they were just trying to make up stuff, that I had watched that play multiple times and could not say it was a bad call. Was just a tough call. The Farrar guy blocked me, I actually went my first 10 years on Twitter and he was the only person to ever block me. Big baby.
I don't think the article is still online, but I read a really persuasive argument that the Fail Mary was decided correctly, and Tate really did make the catch. There was blatant OPI, but that's never called on those plays.
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
There are a lot of people in here who could fix football. Why don’t all you excellent referees start suiting up and work your way up to doing NFL games?

The reality is that the NFL likely has the best of the best officiating their games and it’s an incredibly difficult thing to do. We all complain about things because we have the luxury of dozens of slow motion replays
Its the rules, not necessarily the refs.
The 15 yard penalties when guys touch the helmet of the QB, calling a pass incomplete due to the ever so slight juggle in super slow motion, the inability to call or take back a penalty with a review............
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:

Agreed. They're obviously not perfect. But I think they do an overall really good job.
I don’t. Ever since instant replay was instituted the refs have gotten lazy and depend on it to correct a call. I believe they should use it for penalties. The missed face mask call cost the Eagles the game IMO
Refs are instructed to let plays play out (especially on turnover plays) and not blow their whistles and then sort it out on replay. That’s what the league office has told them to do.
Coaches should be able to challenge a play where a penalty wasn't called but should have.
 

renesauz

IBL Representative
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
Doesn't matter...was crystal clear he was down 4 or 5 steps before BG actually got there. The facemask was an egregious miss, the hit on Heineke was a gimme call they make every single time
 

renesauz

IBL Representative
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:

Agreed. They're obviously not perfect. But I think they do an overall really good job.
I think we take for granted how difficult it is to observe and call a game at field level. Home viewers get an elevated view were we can see the majority of the field unobstructed . . . and then get slow motion replays from 10 other cameras and angles.

Back when I used to coach, there were times when refs missed blatant penalties. The best course of action was to point out a certain player was holding or grabbing on a lot of plays and hope they notice it a different time. I had refs apologize to me saying if something happened on a play, they missed it. They can’t have eyes on everything all the time. The only way to correct some erroneous calls is to let calls / non-calls be reviewable, and given that you could probably throw a flag on every play, that would open up a can of worms that probably would create way more problems than it would solve. But losing a fumble on a missed face mask call is a bad look. Thankfully those types of plays don’t happen a ton.
I think this kind of missed call is gonna get fixed soon. Blatant bad penalties will soon be enforced. They really don't need too many more plays like that goedert fumble before they start using the skyjudge and/or adding a caveat in the review rules that allows them to throw a flag retroactively on a normal review. Anyone wanting coaches to be able to challenge every non call is crazy, but they can obviously do better.
 

renesauz

IBL Representative
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:
I'm always seeing plays where I think, for instance, "What? Fumble? He was easily down!" Then I see the replay and it really was a fumble. Happens all the time and it makes me shake my head and say "How do they do it so well?" Granted, those guys are right there yards away from the action; however, each guy can only be in one place at one time and look in one direction at one time. When everything is happening so fast and all those bodies are in the way at times, I have no clue how they can orchestrate it all to be able to nail such a high percentage of calls/no-calls.
this. I'll whine and complain as much as the next guy on the blatant misses but truth is they do a heck of a job overall. No way any of us get half as many of those close full speed calls correct
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:
I'm always seeing plays where I think, for instance, "What? Fumble? He was easily down!" Then I see the replay and it really was a fumble. Happens all the time and it makes me shake my head and say "How do they do it so well?" Granted, those guys are right there yards away from the action; however, each guy can only be in one place at one time and look in one direction at one time. When everything is happening so fast and all those bodies are in the way at times, I have no clue how they can orchestrate it all to be able to nail such a high percentage of calls/no-calls.
this. I'll whine and complain as much as the next guy on the blatant misses but truth is they do a heck of a job overall. No way any of us get half as many of those close full speed calls correct
Ok, but I'm not paid to do that job, they are. I've been watching football for 56 years and I can tell you that before replay was put in refs were better. Now don't get me wrong, I am all for replay and cried as much for it when we didn't have it, but IMO it has made the overall performance of refs worse, because they know the replay will correct their mishaps. I also believe replay should be used for penalties and no-calls that should have been penalties. You do that with challenges, just like you have challenges on other plays. That way you limit slowing down the game.
 
Last edited:

Gally

Footballguy
I think many of these missed calls can be rectified by placing a member of the ref team in the booth. He can buzz down for fouls and can do a quick review (half speed at slowest) of calls and give input during the ref get together on flags. The refs already huddle to discuss many of the borderline calls already.....the ref in the sky can look quickly at a play and give input.

I think this takes care of 90% of the blatant missed calls and wouldn't add much to the overall slow down if done properly.
 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
None of us are quitting watching this great sport. This overreaction thread happens every year lol.

It was a great sport. Even if you wash away all the rule changes, repetitive commercials, bad calls, and bad play, the problem is these dudes are way too big and way too fast to play the game the way its intended. The game has been filed down to a fine point as is the nature of all things.

Between the bad product and the lower participation, I'm not even sure who will be watching the game in 20 years. Not one of my daughters BFs or their friends growing up care about sports. I don't know a single kid under 20 who even watches. None of my nephews care.

I used to watch from 1pm-1am every Sunday and Monday night games were a must.
Then I only watched the Skins and Cowboys.
Now I only Watch the Cowboys...most of the time. If its not Fox, I no longer make the effort to watch a stream.

In 15 years I can retire. I bet I stop watching the NFL before then.
Funny, every 20 something know didn’t watch a lick of nfl as a teen now they all are in a fantasy league and gamble on it. Most of their girlfriends have fantasy teams too.

Really? Wow. I would not have expected that.

It's more an excuse to get together, hang out, drink beer, and talk ****.

One of the FBG IBL owners bailed and the last minute and a very long time FBG poster's daughter stepped in and has been kicking hiney on behalf this board.
I've said the following many times.

This is the fault of NFL fans.

NFL refs are part-time employees that can't be disciplined for making bad calls. Of course they suck. The system is designed for crappy employees that do a bad job.

When the NFL tried to change both of these things, and we got the replacement refs, fans rioted. Every bad call was highlighted, people forgot how bad the regular refs were, and screamed and begged for the NFL to cave and bring the regular refs back. With the same lousy stipulations that made them suck in the first place.

I was screaming it at the time, as everyone here begged for the real refs back. Ya'll are forgetting how bad they are, and all caving now is going to do is guarantee that they stay bad.

There's nothing that can be done about bad reffing. Literally. It's in their contract. The contract they got because we all yelled and screamed to give them whatever they wanted so they'd come back, because in a couple months we forgot how bad they were.
Right there with you from day 1.
When the NFL tried to change both of these things, and we got the replacement refs, fans rioted. Every bad call was highlighted, people forgot how bad the regular refs were, and screamed and begged for the NFL to cave and bring the regular refs back. With the same lousy stipulations that made them suck in the first place.
I think this was heavily media driven and no one drove that bus harder then Peter King.

I remember the MNF game between the Packers and Seattle, the Fail Mary, was when this got to a head. King had been tweeting and writing articles slamming the NFL, saying how could a multi- billion dollar business be so cheap, that kind of thing. As soon as that play happened he was on twitter bellowing out "I told you so". Doug Farrar responded to his tweet chiming in and I replied they were just trying to make up stuff, that I had watched that play multiple times and could not say it was a bad call. Was just a tough call. The Farrar guy blocked me, I actually went my first 10 years on Twitter and he was the only person to ever block me. Big baby.
This board was up in arms over the replacement refs. Probably 95%+ of the posters here wanted the old refs back asap under whatever conditions they wanted.
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
I think the replays should be done by someone who does NOT know what the call on the field was. If they can't make a definitive ruling, then the call on the field stands.
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I think many of these missed calls can be rectified by placing a member of the ref team in the booth. He can buzz down for fouls and can do a quick review (half speed at slowest) of calls and give input during the ref get together on flags. The refs already huddle to discuss many of the borderline calls already.....the ref in the sky can look quickly at a play and give input.

I think this takes care of 90% of the blatant missed calls and wouldn't add much to the overall slow down if done properly.
I think this is a wonderful idea. Why in the hell wouldn’t they do this?
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
I think many of these missed calls can be rectified by placing a member of the ref team in the booth. He can buzz down for fouls and can do a quick review (half speed at slowest) of calls and give input during the ref get together on flags. The refs already huddle to discuss many of the borderline calls already.....the ref in the sky can look quickly at a play and give input.

I think this takes care of 90% of the blatant missed calls and wouldn't add much to the overall slow down if done properly.
I think this is a wonderful idea.
Yeah, it seems really really really antiquated to have the field ref run off the field to little camera under a hood. Takes time and looks stupid.
 

SeniorVBDStudent

Footballguy
What a strange thread. The penalty was called on the defender approaching the QB face to face. It was beyond obvious that the QB had given himself up, and if it had been a defender on the team I root for I would have been LIVID at that defender for being a MORON. Are the rules over-protective? Sure. Was this a boneheaded play that in no way can be excused by blaming bad officiating and/or bad rules? Absolutely.
 

renesauz

IBL Representative
I think many of these missed calls can be rectified by placing a member of the ref team in the booth. He can buzz down for fouls and can do a quick review (half speed at slowest) of calls and give input during the ref get together on flags. The refs already huddle to discuss many of the borderline calls already.....the ref in the sky can look quickly at a play and give input.

I think this takes care of 90% of the blatant missed calls and wouldn't add much to the overall slow down if done properly.
I think this is a wonderful idea.
Yeah, it seems really really really antiquated to have the field ref run off the field to little camera under a hood. Takes time and looks stupid.
They don't run off the field for every review now. There's the whole "expedited review" thing where if it's obvious/blatant the guys in NY just tell the on field ref.

The whole skybox ref thing has been talked about for a few years now....would be shocked if they don't give this a serious run/try sometime in next year or two
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I think many of these missed calls can be rectified by placing a member of the ref team in the booth. He can buzz down for fouls and can do a quick review (half speed at slowest) of calls and give input during the ref get together on flags. The refs already huddle to discuss many of the borderline calls already.....the ref in the sky can look quickly at a play and give input.

I think this takes care of 90% of the blatant missed calls and wouldn't add much to the overall slow down if done properly.
I think this is a wonderful idea.
Yeah, it seems really really really antiquated to have the field ref run off the field to little camera under a hood. Takes time and looks stupid.
Problem is they can’t call a penalty as a result of a replay. My argument is they should.
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
I think many of these missed calls can be rectified by placing a member of the ref team in the booth. He can buzz down for fouls and can do a quick review (half speed at slowest) of calls and give input during the ref get together on flags. The refs already huddle to discuss many of the borderline calls already.....the ref in the sky can look quickly at a play and give input.

I think this takes care of 90% of the blatant missed calls and wouldn't add much to the overall slow down if done properly.
I think this is a wonderful idea.
Yeah, it seems really really really antiquated to have the field ref run off the field to little camera under a hood. Takes time and looks stupid.
Problem is they can’t call a penalty as a result of a replay. My argument is they should.
I have said this also. They just need to figure out how far to take that. If they are looking at a tackle/fumble/facemask like on Goedert the other night, what if they see a holding penalty 25 yards away.....
 

Rubi

Footballguy
Heard The NFL is doing a spinoff of The Red Zone Channel next year.
The Yellow Flag Channel...."Every penalty from every game"

SEVEN HOURS OF PENALTY FILLED GAMES STARTS NOW!
 

BeTheMatch

Let it burn!
I think many of these missed calls can be rectified by placing a member of the ref team in the booth. He can buzz down for fouls and can do a quick review (half speed at slowest) of calls and give input during the ref get together on flags. The refs already huddle to discuss many of the borderline calls already.....the ref in the sky can look quickly at a play and give input.

I think this takes care of 90% of the blatant missed calls and wouldn't add much to the overall slow down if done properly.
I think this is a wonderful idea.
Yeah, it seems really really really antiquated to have the field ref run off the field to little camera under a hood. Takes time and looks stupid.
Problem is they can’t call a penalty as a result of a replay. My argument is they should.
I have said this also. They just need to figure out how far to take that. If they are looking at a tackle/fumble/facemask like on Goedert the other night, what if they see a holding penalty 25 yards away.....
Offensive holding 25 yards away from the play is not something that would ever be called.
 

Snoopy

Footballguy
I think many of these missed calls can be rectified by placing a member of the ref team in the booth. He can buzz down for fouls and can do a quick review (half speed at slowest) of calls and give input during the ref get together on flags. The refs already huddle to discuss many of the borderline calls already.....the ref in the sky can look quickly at a play and give input.

I think this takes care of 90% of the blatant missed calls and wouldn't add much to the overall slow down if done properly.
I think this is a wonderful idea.
Yeah, it seems really really really antiquated to have the field ref run off the field to little camera under a hood. Takes time and looks stupid.
Problem is they can’t call a penalty as a result of a replay. My argument is they should.
Not exactly correct. They can't do that on judgment calls which most penalties are. But there are a few that can be called such as 12 men on the field or illegal forward pass.
 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
I know an NFL ref and a SEC ref. I met them both with my daughters played college volleyball. They had daughters who were on the team. I have talked to them many times about games and calls.

Both of them have said a number of times. Being on the field on ground level, and watching the play at game speed and having to make a call in that instant is way different that watching the same play in a frame by frame slow motion replay.

The one SEC ref I know said that when Les Miles was at LSU he would would always yell at my buddy saying that he was trying to screw LSU. My buddy said "I don`t care about LSU or Bama or whoever is playing, I just try to get every call correct as I am being evaluated after on game tape on every play. Calls that I make and calls that I miss.

One time he got in trouble as he was the back judge and did not call a helmet to helmet hit, but he said to me at game speed he could not tell if the player was hit in the shoulder area or the head.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I know an NFL ref and a SEC ref. I met them both with my daughters played college volleyball. They had daughters who were on the team. I have talked to them many times about games and calls.

Both of them have said a number of times. Being on the field on ground level, and watching the play at game speed and having to make a call in that instant is way different that watching the same play in a frame by frame slow motion replay.

The one SEC ref I know said that when Les Miles was at LSU he would would always yell at my buddy saying that he was trying to screw LSU. My buddy said "I don`t care about LSU or Bama or whoever is playing, I just try to get every call correct as I am being evaluated after on game tape on every play. Calls that I make and calls that I miss.

One time he got in trouble as he was the back judge and did not call a helmet to helmet hit, but he said to me at game speed he could not tell if the player was hit in the shoulder area or the head.
I mentioned this on the first page of this thread virtually verbatim. I coached for years and was on the chain gang for many other games. It is very difficult to see everything all at once with so many moving parts. And that was nowhere near the speed of the NFL. Another factor that sometimes comes into play is players can run into areas where the refs are, and they have to get out of the way of the action. That automatically takes their focus off of areas they are supposed to be monitoring for penalties. When we watch on TV, we are essentially 5 feet away from the ball carrier. Where the refs are stationed, they are a lot further away and can get screened by having players in the way. It's actually surprising they catch as many calls as they do. I would never want to be an official. It's rare they get any praise, and when they occasionally make a questionable call, fans of the losing team want to post their home address on social media and incite a torch and pitchfork insurrection against them.
 
Last edited:

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I know an NFL ref and a SEC ref. I met them both with my daughters played college volleyball. They had daughters who were on the team. I have talked to them many times about games and calls.

Both of them have said a number of times. Being on the field on ground level, and watching the play at game speed and having to make a call in that instant is way different that watching the same play in a frame by frame slow motion replay.

The one SEC ref I know said that when Les Miles was at LSU he would would always yell at my buddy saying that he was trying to screw LSU. My buddy said "I don`t care about LSU or Bama or whoever is playing, I just try to get every call correct as I am being evaluated after on game tape on every play. Calls that I make and calls that I miss.

One time he got in trouble as he was the back judge and did not call a helmet to helmet hit, but he said to me at game speed he could not tell if the player was hit in the shoulder area or the head.
I stand by my statement that I think referees were better before replay was put in. I'm all for replay, but it is my belief that it has made referees worse.
 

Da Guru

Fair & Balanced
I know an NFL ref and a SEC ref. I met them both with my daughters played college volleyball. They had daughters who were on the team. I have talked to them many times about games and calls.

Both of them have said a number of times. Being on the field on ground level, and watching the play at game speed and having to make a call in that instant is way different that watching the same play in a frame by frame slow motion replay.

The one SEC ref I know said that when Les Miles was at LSU he would would always yell at my buddy saying that he was trying to screw LSU. My buddy said "I don`t care about LSU or Bama or whoever is playing, I just try to get every call correct as I am being evaluated after on game tape on every play. Calls that I make and calls that I miss.

One time he got in trouble as he was the back judge and did not call a helmet to helmet hit, but he said to me at game speed he could not tell if the player was hit in the shoulder area or the head.
I mentioned this on the first page of this thread virtually verbatim. I coached for years and was on the chain gang for many other games. It is very difficult to see everything all at once with so many moving parts. And that was nowhere near the speed of the NFL. Another factor that sometimes comes into play is players can run into areas where the refs are, and they have to get out of the way of the action. That automatically takes their focus off of areas they are supposed to be monitoring for penalties. When we watch on TV, we are essentially 5 feet away from the ball carrier. Where the refs are stationed, they are a lot further away and can get screened by having players in the way. It's actually surprising they catch as many calls as they do. I would never want to be an official. It's rare they get any praise, and when they occasionally make a questionable call, fans of the losing team want to post their home address on social media and incite a torch and pitchfork insurrection against you.

I agree, the SEC ref said when you are the back judge and teams are running 4-5 WRs you have to be aware to try and stay out of the way of the crossing WRs and DBs while watching the play. With the speed on the skill players it is difficult.
 

efactor

Footballguy
a) It's no longer a fair contest between receivers and the secondary. Pretty much anything a DB can do to try to compete will get flagged, usually for DPI which is a hugely disproportionate penalty

b) Excessive protection for the quarterback
a) 100% agree that the DPI penalty needs to be changed to, at most 15 yards. It's insane that anything can amount to a 50+ yard penalty. Then again, I'd only give 15 yards if someone went full Billy Cole.

b) disagree here for the most part. Let's be real, no one wants to watch John Wolford v Colt McCoy. You don't, I don't and the casual fan, who the NFL does 99% of their marketing for, definitely doesn't want to watch that.

It sucks but you gotta protect the franchise. On the notion of penalties, I would probably be on board for removing Loss of Down from intentional grounding in favor of, say, a 10 yard penalty (or even a spot foul). It might encourage QBs to get rid of the ball quicker and avoid some of those silly roughing penalties.
Totally agree with bolded. EXCEPT when QBs take advantage of the fact that defensive players have to pull up. A couple examples:

-The best run (probably best play) of Sam Darnolds career, was a result of the DB pulling up when Darnold faked a slide and then kept going. Play went for 50 and a TD. DB looked like a fool when all he was doing was avoiding a penatly.

-Russell Wilson heading out of bounds and then extending the ball for the extra yard or two when the defensive player pulls up.

This kind of shiot deserves a cheap hit in retaliation
 

Deamon

Footballguy
Officiating is hard I'm sure. They're not messing up calls on purpose. They're not lazy and not trying really hard to get the call wrong.

They need to change the RTP rule ASAP, and I think because of all the outrage this year, that they will. I hope they will anyways.

Not sure what everyone's answer to the problem is beyond that though. I can see maybe giving them more in depth training, is that what you guys think is the solution and are there any others?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top