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Officiating has ruined the NFL. (1 Viewer)

WiDDoW_MaKeR

Footballguy
The NFL has become impossible to enjoy. They miss the obvious, blatant, game changing fouls, and then throw every single flag they can if absolutely anything happens around the QB. You can't stop the laws of physics, just because a QB quickly drops down or throws the ball away. They expect these defense players to evaporate in thin air.

Also, explain how it makes any type of sense for a turnover to be reviewed, but they aren't allowed to review the fact that a dangerous facemask is what caused the fumble? They are already reviewing the play, how does that make any sense?

If it wasn't for fantasy football, I can only imagine how low the viewership would drop
 
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Pip's Invitation

Footballguy
I stopped watching the NHL (other than playoff games the Flyers appear in, rare as they are in recent years) because of how the games were officiated and the league was run. I still watch the NFL despite how the games are officiated and the league is run, which is equally bad. The main difference is I play fantasy football and I never played fantasy hockey. (The other reason is that the NHL regular season is essentially meaningless, which is not true for the NFL.)
 

rockaction

Footballguy
I stopped watching the NHL (other than playoff games the Flyers appear in, rare as they are in recent years) because of how the games were officiated and the league was run.

Hockey lost me when the Whalers moved and the product became unwatchable due to the officiating. It was going through a dark time with the trap and the clutching and grabbing and interference. It's now a really fast-paced, exciting watchable product. They seem to have figured out what fans love, which is speed and puck movement and a reasonable amount of scoring (not too much because it dilutes the product).

Football would totally lose me but for fantasy. When I'm cheering as a fan (which isn't very often when one roots for the Jets) I find myself in constant awe of how poor the officiating is and frustrated by it. Like I said in the other thread, they had their chance that year they either locked them out or they went on strike, and the Golden Tate catch/non-catch in a prime time game changed their stance on that strike/lockout. The NFL was right in their position at that time, and they caved. As you alluded to in the other thread, the egregious non-enforcement of the PI review was probably the worst case of just deliberately defying an employer I have ever seen enacted in public. And the NFL caved on that, too.

Just bollocks all over.
 
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WiDDoW_MaKeR

Footballguy
The NFL has become impossible to enjoy. They miss the obvious, blatant, game changing fouls, and then throw every single flag they can if absolutely anything happens around the QB. You can't stop the laws of physics, just because a QB quickly drops down or throws the ball away. They expect these defense players to evaporate in thin air.
Eagles fan?
Actually, I'm a Cowboys fan. I was clearly rooting against the Eagles, and I was still disgusted.
 

TheWinz

Footballguy
The NFL has become impossible to enjoy. They miss the obvious, blatant, game changing fouls, and then throw every single flag they can if absolutely anything happens around the QB. You can't stop the laws of physics, just because a QB quickly drops down or throws the ball away. They expect these defense players to evaporate in thin air.

Also, explain how it makes any type of sense for a turnover to be reviewed, but they aren't allowed to review the fact that a dangerous facemask is what caused the fumble? They are already reviewing the play, how does that make any sense?

If it wasn't for fantasy football, I can only imagine how low the viewership would drop
Dangerous facemask? What about poor Taylor Heinicke? He coulda been paralyzed by that heinous hit. That guy should be in jail!
 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
I think when a QB is on his knees you know you can't load up on him or hit him, be it behind the LOS, after the LOS, the concession stand grabbing a hot dog, you cannot touch the QB and it's even scoffed at when he is standing in the pocket with the football ready to throw it.
 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
If it wasn't for fantasy football, I can only imagine how low the viewership would drop
I dropped all of my FF teams this year and only watch games that I want to and my viewership is SIGNIFICANTLY down because who really cares for the 'marque' matchups with manufactured slick gimmicks that I'm supposed to salivate over like some Pavlovian dog just because it has a 'marquee' matchup with 'STAR NFL PLAYERS'.
No. The NFL doesn't tell me who I 'should' be interested in, I'll make that decision thank you.
Without FF the only star players that I care about are from my home team.
And I HATE the NFL props up 'certain teams' devoting every spare bit of airtime to them.
Once again, don't TELL ME who I should be interested in and the more I get this sort of overly marketed gimmicky NFL **** shoveled down my throat the easier it is to turn off and it is great to take back valuable stolen time.
 

Godsbrother

Footballguy
There always has been, and always will be bad calls (and no calls). Sometimes they break for you and sometimes they break against you. I was unable to watch the game last night so I don't know which specific calls are being questioned but for the most part the officiating in the NFL is okay. They do blow calls from time to time but that's just the way it goes...
 

sho nuff

Footballguy
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
Probably after...but it does not really matter.
If the a player gives himself up, you can't hit him. Even more so the QB. And he clearly gave himself up...and it was clearly a late hit. It wasn't violent, wasn't a vicious hit, but a clear flag which should not be a surprise to anyone that it was thrown.
 

Dacomish

Footballguy
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
Probably after...but it does not really matter.
If the a player gives himself up, you can't hit him. Even more so the QB. And he clearly gave himself up...and it was clearly a late hit. It wasn't violent, wasn't a vicious hit, but a clear flag which should not be a surprise to anyone that it was thrown.
Oh completely agree just had not seen if that had come up at all. Watching it on replay clearly gave himself up.
 

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
None of us are quitting watching this great sport. This overreaction thread happens every year lol.

It was a great sport. Even if you wash away all the rule changes, repetitive commercials, bad calls, and bad play, the problem is these dudes are way too big and way too fast to play the game the way its intended. The game has been filed down to a fine point as is the nature of all things.

Between the bad product and the lower participation, I'm not even sure who will be watching the game in 20 years. Not one of my daughters BFs or their friends growing up care about sports. I don't know a single kid under 20 who even watches. None of my nephews care.

I used to watch from 1pm-1am every Sunday and Monday night games were a must.
Then I only watched the Skins and Cowboys.
Now I only Watch the Cowboys...most of the time. If its not Fox, I no longer make the effort to watch a stream.

In 15 years I can retire. I bet I stop watching the NFL before then.
 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
He was in the kneel down after the play was running and he couldn't find a quick outlet pass so he runs around a little and then just takes a knee, I've never seen a starting QB even try to do that and i don't really consider Heineken a starting NFL QB, that was such a little ***** move he pulled and DEs/Edge running around the Tackles couldn't tell what happened, the Ref blew the whistle though pretty sure which is why Heineken immediately appealed for the flag and got it
 

efactor

Footballguy
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
Probably after...but it does not really matter.
If the a player gives himself up, you can't hit him. Even more so the QB. And he clearly gave himself up...and it was clearly a late hit. It wasn't violent, wasn't a vicious hit, but a clear flag which should not be a surprise to anyone that it was thrown.
Well said

Especially true on the QB part. They get added protection even on fairly routine hits. Graham should have been better disciplined. Heinicke wasn't going anywhere
 

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
None of us are quitting watching this great sport. This overreaction thread happens every year lol.

It was a great sport. Even if you wash away all the rule changes, repetitive commercials, bad calls, and bad play, the problem is these dudes are way too big and way too fast to play the game the way its intended. The game has been filed down to a fine point as is the nature of all things.

Between the bad product and the lower participation, I'm not even sure who will be watching the game in 20 years. Not one of my daughters BFs or their friends growing up care about sports. I don't know a single kid under 20 who even watches. None of my nephews care.

I used to watch from 1pm-1am every Sunday and Monday night games were a must.
Then I only watched the Skins and Cowboys.
Now I only Watch the Cowboys...most of the time. If its not Fox, I no longer make the effort to watch a stream.

In 15 years I can retire. I bet I stop watching the NFL before then.
I hear a weight limit being pushed here, good topic ;)
I wrote a thesis on it at the Univ of Miami 10-12 years ago, steroids are outlawed in 1988 and the avg weight of players shoots thru the moon
Most starting OL in the NFL in the 60s and 70s were 250 lbs
We hear evolution and you look at doorways from 2,000 yrs ago that many people couldn't fit thru now, however that's a lot to ask in just 1 generation of players

I'm all for a flat 300 lb limit, you exceed it and you either go to Canada or The Rock's new football league. Get the NFL back to what made it great and stop humoring guys that should be at Jenny Craig meetings or on a Weight Watchers program, don't tell me how athletic they are, they're dead before they turn 50 many times.
 

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
He was in the kneel down after the play was running and he couldn't find a quick outlet pass so he runs around a little and then just takes a knee, I've never seen a starting QB even try to do that and i don't really consider Heineken a starting NFL QB, that was such a little ***** move he pulled and DEs/Edge running around the Tackles couldn't tell what happened, the Ref blew the whistle though pretty sure which is why Heineken immediately appealed for the flag and got it


Dude is an absolute killer. How people keep sleeping on this dude is comical at this point.
 

ChiefD

Footballguy
I hear a weight limit being pushed here, good topic ;)
I wrote a thesis on it at the Univ of Miami 10-12 years ago, steroids are outlawed in 1988 and the avg weight of players shoots thru the moon
Most starting OL in the NFL in the 60s and 70s were 250 lbs
We hear evolution and you look at doorways from 2,000 yrs ago that many people couldn't fit thru now, however that's a lot to ask in just 1 generation of players

I'm all for a flat 300 lb limit, you exceed it and you either go to Canada or The Rock's new football league. Get the NFL back to what made it great and stop humoring guys that should be at Jenny Craig meetings or on a Weight Watchers program, don't tell me how athletic they are, they're dead before they turn 50 many times.
There is a lot of truth to this. I see the kids on my kids sports teams and they are all tall kids. Way taller than when I played sports 35 years ago in high school.

My theory is it's the food. These kids are raised on milk and beef from animals that have received steroids during THEIR growth process to produce more. Inevitably that has to filter to our kids as well.
 

ChiefD

Footballguy
Oh, and all the flags and such....to me that's a simple one. Gambling. Flags are the one way to influence games. It's gotten worse and it sure isn't getting any better long term.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I am almost old enough to remember when the AFL and NFL merged (I started watching as a kid a couple years later). I have been active on Footballguys since it launched in 1998. I have never seen a thread or heard a discussion about how great the NFL officiating has been. By this point there have been hundreds of threads about how poorly officiated the games are. And there are always a few people that want to tap out and suggest they won’t watch anymore. Yet the game is just as popular as ever.

I hate to quote Mike Greenberg, but he mentioned a few weeks ago that a few bad roughing the passer calls made the rounds on sports talk shows. But when Tua got hurt that made national news shows, morning and afternoon talk shows (non sports), and even international news. The point being, the league looks bad when QBs get hurt, they put out a better product when there are All Pro QBs on the field instead of back ups, and the league feels strongly that they would rather have two hand touch rules for football.

I remember when tackle football was tackle football. But the league is different now. Players need to adapt the best they can. Fans too.
 

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
There is a lot of truth to this. I see the kids on my kids sports teams and they are all tall kids. Way taller than when I played sports 35 years ago in high school.

My theory is it's the food. These kids are raised on milk and beef from animals that have received steroids during THEIR growth process to produce more. Inevitably that has to filter to our kids as well.


I agree to some extent but there is also a much larger pool of people to pull from. The taller, faster, bigger kids tend to gravitate towards sports anyway.
 

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
Yet the game is just as popular as ever.

Is it though? I know thats the info the NFL does a great job of feeding us. I mean, they are surly more exposed than ever. There are more people on this planet, but do a greater percentage of them watch football now in comparison to the past?
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
Yet the game is just as popular as ever.

Is it though? I know thats the info the NFL does a great job of feeding us. I mean, they are surly more exposed than ever. There are more people on this planet, but do a greater percentage of them watch football now in comparison to the past?
IMO, this is impossible to measure. Pick a random point in time before there was streaming, 1,000 cable channels, podcasts, pay services, etc. The competition for Sunday TV viewers were local shows. Now people have a million other things to watch at the same time.

All the league cares is that a lot of people watch (they still have the highest rated prime time shows) and they make a boatload of money. And they are making more than ever before.

If people want to a sport that looks like they will have trouble keeping fans, it’s baseball. Where I live, so few kids play anymore they may not even offer it anymore. The people that watch are mostly age 55+.
 

BassNBrew

IBL Representative
None of us are quitting watching this great sport. This overreaction thread happens every year lol.

It was a great sport. Even if you wash away all the rule changes, repetitive commercials, bad calls, and bad play, the problem is these dudes are way too big and way too fast to play the game the way its intended. The game has been filed down to a fine point as is the nature of all things.

Between the bad product and the lower participation, I'm not even sure who will be watching the game in 20 years. Not one of my daughters BFs or their friends growing up care about sports. I don't know a single kid under 20 who even watches. None of my nephews care.

I used to watch from 1pm-1am every Sunday and Monday night games were a must.
Then I only watched the Skins and Cowboys.
Now I only Watch the Cowboys...most of the time. If its not Fox, I no longer make the effort to watch a stream.

In 15 years I can retire. I bet I stop watching the NFL before then.
Funny, every 20 something know didn’t watch a lick of nfl as a teen now they all are in a fantasy league and gamble on it. Most of their girlfriends have fantasy teams too.
 

Insein

Footballguy
None of us are quitting watching this great sport. This overreaction thread happens every year lol.

It was a great sport. Even if you wash away all the rule changes, repetitive commercials, bad calls, and bad play, the problem is these dudes are way too big and way too fast to play the game the way its intended. The game has been filed down to a fine point as is the nature of all things.

Between the bad product and the lower participation, I'm not even sure who will be watching the game in 20 years. Not one of my daughters BFs or their friends growing up care about sports. I don't know a single kid under 20 who even watches. None of my nephews care.

I used to watch from 1pm-1am every Sunday and Monday night games were a must.
Then I only watched the Skins and Cowboys.
Now I only Watch the Cowboys...most of the time. If its not Fox, I no longer make the effort to watch a stream.

In 15 years I can retire. I bet I stop watching the NFL before then.
Funny, every 20 something know didn’t watch a lick of nfl as a teen now they all are in a fantasy league and gamble on it. Most of their girlfriends have fantasy teams too.
Goes back to the theory that the NFL would collapse without fantasy and gambling. Every commercial break has at least 3 ads for FanDuel, BetMGM, or other gambling sites.

Remember back when implying the NFL was involved in gambling would get strict denials from the league. They haven't cares about that for like 20 years now. They even moved a team to Vegas.
 

STEADYMOBBIN 22

Footballguy
None of us are quitting watching this great sport. This overreaction thread happens every year lol.

It was a great sport. Even if you wash away all the rule changes, repetitive commercials, bad calls, and bad play, the problem is these dudes are way too big and way too fast to play the game the way its intended. The game has been filed down to a fine point as is the nature of all things.

Between the bad product and the lower participation, I'm not even sure who will be watching the game in 20 years. Not one of my daughters BFs or their friends growing up care about sports. I don't know a single kid under 20 who even watches. None of my nephews care.

I used to watch from 1pm-1am every Sunday and Monday night games were a must.
Then I only watched the Skins and Cowboys.
Now I only Watch the Cowboys...most of the time. If its not Fox, I no longer make the effort to watch a stream.

In 15 years I can retire. I bet I stop watching the NFL before then.
Funny, every 20 something know didn’t watch a lick of nfl as a teen now they all are in a fantasy league and gamble on it. Most of their girlfriends have fantasy teams too.

Really? Wow. I would not have expected that.
 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
I've said the following many times.

This is the fault of NFL fans.

NFL refs are part-time employees that can't be disciplined for making bad calls. Of course they suck. The system is designed for crappy employees that do a bad job.

When the NFL tried to change both of these things, and we got the replacement refs, fans rioted. Every bad call was highlighted, people forgot how bad the regular refs were, and screamed and begged for the NFL to cave and bring the regular refs back. With the same lousy stipulations that made them suck in the first place.

I was screaming it at the time, as everyone here begged for the real refs back. Ya'll are forgetting how bad they are, and all caving now is going to do is guarantee that they stay bad.

There's nothing that can be done about bad reffing. Literally. It's in their contract. The contract they got because we all yelled and screamed to give them whatever they wanted so they'd come back, because in a couple months we forgot how bad they were.
 

FreeBaGeL

Footballguy
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
He was in the kneel down after the play was running and he couldn't find a quick outlet pass so he runs around a little and then just takes a knee, I've never seen a starting QB even try to do that and i don't really consider Heineken a starting NFL QB, that was such a little ***** move he pulled and DEs/Edge running around the Tackles couldn't tell what happened, the Ref blew the whistle though pretty sure which is why Heineken immediately appealed for the flag and got it

I don't think he was trying to draw a flag. He was trying to stay in bounds and keep the clock running instead of throwing an incompletion when his target wasn't open, like a RB sliding near the end of the game instead of running out of bounds. It did create an impossible situation for the defensive players where it unfairly drew a flag on them, but I don't think that was Heinecke's intent. Obviously, he was happy when the flag came and won them the game, but it seemed obvious his intent was just to keep the clock running when the play that was designed didn't work.
 

ghostguy123

Footballguy
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
He was in the kneel down after the play was running and he couldn't find a quick outlet pass so he runs around a little and then just takes a knee, I've never seen a starting QB even try to do that and i don't really consider Heineken a starting NFL QB, that was such a little ***** move he pulled and DEs/Edge running around the Tackles couldn't tell what happened, the Ref blew the whistle though pretty sure which is why Heineken immediately appealed for the flag and got it
He didn't take a knee, he fell sorta forward while on his knees. It could have easily looked like he was trying to recover a loose ball. That and the defender wanted to get to him ASAP obviously due to the situation of needing the ball back.
That is a horrible penalty. Did the ref call it by the letter of the law?? I'm not even sure given the way Heineke was hunched forward on the ball. Either way, ref, you can't call that.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I didn't see it live, when did the whistle actually blow? Before or after Graham made contact?
He was in the kneel down after the play was running and he couldn't find a quick outlet pass so he runs around a little and then just takes a knee, I've never seen a starting QB even try to do that and i don't really consider Heineken a starting NFL QB, that was such a little ***** move he pulled and DEs/Edge running around the Tackles couldn't tell what happened, the Ref blew the whistle though pretty sure which is why Heineken immediately appealed for the flag and got it
He didn't take a knee, he fell sorta forward while on his knees. It could have easily looked like he was trying to recover a loose ball. That and the defender wanted to get to him ASAP obviously due to the situation of needing the ball back.
That is a horrible penalty. Did the ref call it by the letter of the law?? I'm not even sure given the way Heineke was hunched forward on the ball. Either way, ref, you can't call that.
Heineke put one knee down, extended his other leg backwards, and turtled. LINK

Depending upon the angle, it could look like he dropped the ball and was trying to recover it. But from the camera angle during the broadcast, it looked pretty clear he gave himself up. But for defenders trying to pressure the QB with a 300 pound lineman all over him, it could be hard to tell.

My fear is if a different QB who will clearly be sacked decides to get cute and do the same thing, will they call it a penalty to get a free first down instead of a big loss?
 

JohnnyU

Footballguy
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:

Agreed. They're obviously not perfect. But I think they do an overall really good job.
I don’t. Ever since instant replay was instituted the refs have gotten lazy and depend on it to correct a call. I believe they should use it for penalties. The missed face mask call cost the Eagles the game IMO
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:

Agreed. They're obviously not perfect. But I think they do an overall really good job.
I think we take for granted how difficult it is to observe and call a game at field level. Home viewers get an elevated view were we can see the majority of the field unobstructed . . . and then get slow motion replays from 10 other cameras and angles.

Back when I used to coach, there were times when refs missed blatant penalties. The best course of action was to point out a certain player was holding or grabbing on a lot of plays and hope they notice it a different time. I had refs apologize to me saying if something happened on a play, they missed it. They can’t have eyes on everything all the time. The only way to correct some erroneous calls is to let calls / non-calls be reviewable, and given that you could probably throw a flag on every play, that would open up a can of worms that probably would create way more problems than it would solve. But losing a fumble on a missed face mask call is a bad look. Thankfully those types of plays don’t happen a ton.
 

Anarchy99

Footballguy
I think NFL refs are actually really, really good. :shrug:

Agreed. They're obviously not perfect. But I think they do an overall really good job.
I don’t. Ever since instant replay was instituted the refs have gotten lazy and depend on it to correct a call. I believe they should use it for penalties. The missed face mask call cost the Eagles the game IMO
Refs are instructed to let plays play out (especially on turnover plays) and not blow their whistles and then sort it out on replay. That’s what the league office has told them to do.
 
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