ghostguy123
Footballguy
Well, duh you would take that. They would probably take the Browns 2018 1st instead of pick 12 this year.
The chances the Browns trade their 2018 1st is about the same as hitting the super lotto jackpot twice in a row.
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Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
The chances the Browns trade their 2018 1st is about the same as hitting the super lotto jackpot twice in a row.
Bossman
Footballguy
- Of course they would try to drum up interest for their tradable asset.
- how are the Patriots "creating a market where there was not one"?
Is NE fooling CLE into believing they are in need of a QB? .... or is there not a market for JG? JG not worthy?
Somehow manipulating the media in CLE?
2/1/2017 "Cleveland is interested in acquiring Patriots backup quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported on Tuesday."
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/browns-reportedly-are-interested-in-trading-for-patriots-qb-jimmy-garoppolo-013117
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BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I have a hunch that if the Pats were offered pick 33 straight up they would take it.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
That would be a great return on their original pick. They got to use him for 3 years at a bare minimum rookie cost and then turned him a pick almost a full round higher.
Niles Standish
Footballguy
If they don't think he's a starting caliber QB you're right. If they think he's going to be a good starter then I imagine they'd keep him for another year as Brady insurance and still get a decent return for him.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If I was BB and thought JG had a really good shot to be a good QB, then keeping him is exactly what they would do..............unless of course they are blown away with an offer that would really improve their team for the next 2-3 years while Brady should still be alive.
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
Can you follow along and not make things up? It's not too hard to get, they need one QB to start and apparently that can take years for some teams but the urgency should be there. Good thing the Cowboys gambled on DAK but that worked out it seems. Without a QB you are toast in todays NFL: see Cleveland. I hope the Browns find one.ghostguy123 said:
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This is how I view the JG issue. He's a the best QB to build you team around of all the available free agents and college players. Cutler has more talent but his poor locker room persona and age make JG more attractive. In addition, the Patriots already have 2 offers and we're 45 days away from the draft. He will be traded and I'm guessing a 1st rounder plus later picks,
Gandalf
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
"Two offers" could be future 3rds for all we know. They're not getting a top 10 pick so that leaves the Browns #12 or a future 1st. No reason to believe they will get "more than a 1st".
-OZ-
Footballguy
Rumor sure. Your comment "the Patriots already have 2 offers" makes it sound concrete and definite.
again, I'll take Glennon at a slightly lower salary and save my picks. But we don't need a qb.
massraider
Footballguy
That post also makes it sound concrete and definite that JG is the best QB available.
Which is laughable, but seems to be a popular opinion.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
That's the thing. No one really KNOWS anything about any of the QBs coming out of college or the NFL back ups attempting to move to another franchise to start.
Has Glennon really done more to prove himself compared to Garoppolo? Glennon completed 10 passes in the past two seasons. Before that he went 5-13 in two starts with an 83 passer rating. Does that performance elevate him above JG? (I am not suggesting it does or it doesn't . . . it was a theoretical question).
As for the other NFL QB's who may be available to pick from . . .
We know who Jay Cutler is, so I am not sure he is much more than a fill-in until a younger QB gets acclimated somewhere. His teams had a sub-.500 record over his career and his made the playoffs once in 11 seasons. He hasn't played a full 16 game season the past 7 years. He's thrown for 4,000 yards in a season one time and never had 30 TD passes in a season.
Tony Romo played in 5 games over the past two seasons and will be 37 years old. Who knows what a team will be getting if they sign Romo and how healthy he is? He bests Cutler in the number of playoff wins category. His 2 playoff wins (in 6 tries) is one more than Cutler (who has gone 1-1 in the post season).
Colin Kaepernick didn't win many friends with his kneeling routine, but the Niners with him at the helm went 11-24 over the past three seasons. When the Niners went to the SB, they had a much better team, but Kaepernick hasn't looked the same since. That may be due to the lack of talent on SF.
Tyrod Taylor did ok for BUF. Not sure he fit the offense that well. He racked up some decent rushing numbers. It's hard to tell what he would look like in more of a passing-based offense.
Brian Hoyer has been on 5 teams and seems destined to be a fill-in and not a regular starter. He's basically been a .500 starter with an 85 passer rating when given a chance to start. Not sure if a team would consider him as starter material.
Overlooking that Geno Smith is coming off an injury, his career record of 12-18 with a 72 passer rating should not cause teams to run to the phone to call him. He has been talking up that he turned a corner and deserves a chance. We'll see who comes calling.
Matt Barkley went 1-5 last year with a 8-14 TD to INT ratio with a 63 passer rating. Not sure there is much to see here.
As well as things went for Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2015, the opposite held true in 2016. A 3-8 record with a 12-17 TD to INT ratio with a 69 passer rating won't help his cause this off-season.
Some folks might bring up Landry Jones as an option. Like Garoppolo, he hasn't played much in his time in PIT and has gone 2-2 with an 82 passer rating. The two wins came against CLE. The Steelers averaged 14.5 ppg with Jones against KC and NE. I defer to others on Jones. Haven't seen enough or know enough about him to have much of an opinion.
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
Oh Mary Kay..
massraider
Footballguy
It doesn't matter that no one knows anything about this years QBs.
No one knows anything about any year of college QBs.
Teams know less, personally, about Jimmy then these college QBs. They get to test and interview Watson.
They don't with Jimmy. They have no info on him that isn't three years old.
They have 6 quarters of play.
It's not about knocking every other freaking QB that's available.
It's about remembering that JG is as much of an unknown quantity as any college kid.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
We have hit Davey status once again!You dont recall the Rohan Davey debacle?
NFL Network's Mike Garofolo suggested the Patriots are seeking two first-round picks in exchange for Jimmy Garoppolo.
massraider
Footballguy
If they get they price, wow.We have hit Davey status once again!
NFL Network's Mike Garofolo suggested the Patriots are seeking two first-round picks in exchange for Jimmy Garoppolo.
Bossman
Footballguy
From the Browns perspective it would seem affordable to give up the #12 to get JG.
The received that pick (and a few other picks) from PHI when trading down from 1.02 last year. They eventually drafted Coleman in the first.
So now they use that acquired #12 pick this year to fill the QB position that they would have drafted with the 1.02 last year.
So the 1.02 pick from last year would end up giving them both Garoppolo and Coleman (as well as a few lower picks from PHI sprinkled in)
(all this assuming CLE likes JG better than whatever QB is left on the board at #12 this year. There is a chance the top one or two QB's may be taken at that point)
The received that pick (and a few other picks) from PHI when trading down from 1.02 last year. They eventually drafted Coleman in the first.
So now they use that acquired #12 pick this year to fill the QB position that they would have drafted with the 1.02 last year.
So the 1.02 pick from last year would end up giving them both Garoppolo and Coleman (as well as a few lower picks from PHI sprinkled in)
(all this assuming CLE likes JG better than whatever QB is left on the board at #12 this year. There is a chance the top one or two QB's may be taken at that point)
Just crazy. As is the big assumption that Garoppolo is the best QB out there including the draft. Part of the benefit of a rookie QB is that you've got time to develop at a discounted rate (1st rounders, relatively cheap for 5 years). JG isn't going to be cheap. He's going to want a long term deal and you start with the franchise tag in 2018. Cleveland is years away from competing. I know they have a good lot of draft picks, but their roster is devoid of talent, including OL. Why pay JG a premium in year 2 of a total rebuild? Also, doesn't 2 1st round picks gut your rebuild? Hey, you can have Trubisky/Watson + Julio Jones in next year's draft or just JG at Osweiler's price tag. Heck, if I didn't like the current QBs, just draft something else and flail for Darnold or whoever you like better next year.We have hit Davey status once again!
NFL Network's Mike Garofolo suggested the Patriots are seeking two first-round picks in exchange for Jimmy Garoppolo.
Call me a JG hater, but no way would I mess up my rebuild for him by blowing 2 first round picks on him just to get to mediocre. I'd rather build the rest of the team and then get a QB I truly believe can be a top 10 QB.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I certainly wouldn't put it past the Patriots. They want a 1st+4th..... no interest. New rumor, they want 1st+2nd...... no interest. New rumor, they want 1st+1st.... ?We have hit Davey status once again!
NFL Network's Mike Garofolo suggested the Patriots are seeking two first-round picks in exchange for Jimmy Garoppolo.
Seems like a silly price but it feels to me like the musical chairs theme is getting faster and louder for half a dozen teams and it certainly isn't going to subside until the end of April. Just as a reminder den/SF/CLE all went with the "we're happy with what we have" approach and finished 27th/31st/30th in offense. But to be fair HOU/MIN/LAR went out and at least made a move to try and improve what they had but they still finished 29th/28th/32nd. I would still rather strike out trying. When you are one of those teams without a QB there's a pretty good chance you won't be around to develop a 2018 first rounder anyway.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I agree with you overall, but don't let anyone try to convince you that JG is as complete an unknown as a college football player. Just a year ago Goff was taken 1st overall and was sold by mosts analysts as being the most "NFL ready" rookie in the class. Prescott was a compensatory pick between round 4 and round 5. We definitely know more how JG will look vs NFL defenses than people knew how Goff/Prescott would look vs NFL defenses one year ago. Goff looked absolutely lost and Prescott was in a much better situation but they were in completely different universes when you compare how ready they were to read and react to an NFL defense.
As far as his contract at least you get him for $3.5mil for an audition year. After that if things go well you control his future the next two years even if you can't come together on a long term deal. If things go south you can wash your hands a lot easier than teams that gives Glennon that long term deal. I think if you are a HOU you can afford to take a risk like that because your team is so strong in most other areas. If your a team like CLE losing that 1st is a much bigger deal than the $ because they have so many holes to fill and so much salary cap space to spend anyway. Either way you are going to have to sink resources into upgrading(or even spinning the roulette wheel) the QB position. PHI and LA payed a kings ransom and it's still too early to tell if it will pay off.
What happens if don't truly believe any of these guys are truly a top 10 QB this year? Take an entire season as a mulligan?
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
If anybody trades a 1st for him and doesn't have an extension (and one that isnt over 13m) they are idiots.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Wait, you're going to trade 2 first rounders for Garoppollo and then piss him off by tagging him (and paying him like a top QB for that year) because you don't have him under a long term contract? What sane GM thinks that is a rational course of action? If Garoppollo doesn't pan out, or he turns out to be great and bolts after a year or two, that's cause for termination.
If you're trading away that much draft capital, you're sure as Hades signing Garoppollo to a long term cap friendly deal. No deal with him in place, no trade. Way too much risk for a QB that another team whose starter is at the end of his career is willing to send away.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
If your QB situation isn't settled all your options are risks unless there is a franchise QB available when you have the top pick(like INDY). If you go the PHI/RAMS route you are taking a huge risk. If you go the Osweiler route you are taking a risk. Even if you go the Cousins route you are taking a risk by using the franchise tag. If you trade for Carson Palmer you are taking a huge risk. It's all a risk unless you are convinced the guy available in your draft slot is a franchise QB.
BTW, I'm not sure what a cap friendly deal looks like for the QB position. I'm all for signing all your players for long term cap friendly deals whether it's your starting QB or not, but I'm not sure their agents will cooperate with the salary cap going up a substantial amount every season.
According to local radio (WEEI) the Patriots are looking for two #1 pick’s for Garoppolo
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2017/03/07/patriots-reported-asking-price-for-jimmy-garoppolo-is-pretty-high/
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2017/03/07/patriots-reported-asking-price-for-jimmy-garoppolo-is-pretty-high/
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
I don’t think the Patriots are going to deal JG unless they are totally blown away by an offer.
In the little I’ve actually seen him play in meaningful games he has looked tremendous...What’s more, is people around the Patriots say that the team really likes him and think that he may be the next guy. If that is the case almost no amount of picks is worth trading him.
In the little I’ve actually seen him play in meaningful games he has looked tremendous...What’s more, is people around the Patriots say that the team really likes him and think that he may be the next guy. If that is the case almost no amount of picks is worth trading him.
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Rookies don't carry anywhere near the financial risk of signing a FA QB to be your starter. I thought that was pretty much common knowledge.
As to a cap friendly deal, you put a large percentage into a signing bonus and this keep the overall number on the contract down. It's a win/win as the player gets a huge amount of money up front and the team gets a little cheaper overall contract that is cap friendly.
You’re correct. If a GM were to deal for JG he would really be putting his neck on the line between the capital you would have to give up and the contract/$ that JG would demand. He surely would ask for more than Brock Osweiler got.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
And surely he wouldnt get it. He is set to make nothing this yewr and has no leverage for a huge deal.
Why wouldn’t he ask for it? Osweiler was arguably the worst starting qb in the league last year and he didn’t exactly light it up in Denver, but he still got a 4 year $72 million deal. An average of $18 million per season... If Mike Glennon can ask for $15 million why shouldn’t ask for at least what Osweiler got? I’d much rather have Garoppolo than either one of those two. Surely, no team is going to meet the Patriots high asking price and not have a deal in place with Garaoppolo.
Is it ridiculous money? Absolutley, but that is the going rate for a starting qb in the NFL and we all know you can’t win anything without an elite qb...Not saying that Jimmy G is an elite qb, but he has a much better chance of being one than Osweiler, Glennon or anybody coming out in this years draft.
-OZ-
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Anyone can ask for anything. As i said, with one year of peanuts left, he has no leverage for that.Saboo said:
Also, as stated pages ago, he would be stupid to not sign a somewhat team friendly extension rather than going through this year and risk losing it all.
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Run It Up
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Mary Kay is a moron. Always has been, always will. She still wants to draft a QB at pick 1 and also at pick 12. Not to mention she gets most everything wrong. She sucks.
Bossman
Footballguy
They (Patriots) reportedly would want a first-round pick this year as well as a conditional pick that could be as good as another first-rounder in 2018.
A conditional pick in 2018 makes a ton more sense than a 1st.
JG wins a playoff game = 1st
JG wins 8 games = 2nd
JG starts 12 games = 3rd
JG doesn't hold out and shows up for training camp = 4th
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Those conditions would have to be quite different if he was traded to the Browns. Winning 8 games would have to be something like their 2018 and 2019 1st and 2nds, cause it would mean JG is a stud.
I can't see BB doing something stupid like a conditional 2018 pick with the Browns unless it was more like a 1st if they win more than 3 games.
Bossman
Footballguy
Colts went from 2 wins in 2011 to 11 wins in 2012.
A new QB had a lot to do with that.
Even though Andrew Luck isn't walking thru that door, I could see CLE winning 7 or 8 games with JG (if he is what some of us think he is) ... and the Myles Garrett addition.
As crappy as their QB play was this year, averaging only 16 points per game, they lost 5 games by less than 7 points.
Defense gave up 28 points per game. Gotta think an elite DE will help a tad bit with that.
Could very well draft a startable player at #33 and / or #52 / #65 as well.
A new QB had a lot to do with that.
Even though Andrew Luck isn't walking thru that door, I could see CLE winning 7 or 8 games with JG (if he is what some of us think he is) ... and the Myles Garrett addition.
As crappy as their QB play was this year, averaging only 16 points per game, they lost 5 games by less than 7 points.
Defense gave up 28 points per game. Gotta think an elite DE will help a tad bit with that.
Could very well draft a startable player at #33 and / or #52 / #65 as well.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Puh-lease. Sure "anything can happen" and all that (and yes it true), but c'mon.
They had just drafted/acquired 3-4 personnel and are now switching to the 4-3.
And that division is known to be murder.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Yes, which is why I said if you happen to get the first pick when there is a franchise QB available then that is the only time no risk is involved. CLE needs a franchise QB, no? Why don't you get on the horn and tell them all they need to do is draft a franchise QB with the first pick.Bronco Billy said:
Am I to understand that you don't think a signing bonus counts against the salary cap?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
To me, the people that own a franchise worth a couple BILLION dollars and don't have a QB are the ones that don't have any leverage. I think the $19mil Osweiler counts against the cap as a starter and the $8mil Chase Daniel counts against the cap to not even play supports that notion.
The only players that sign team friendly extensions imo are older, declining players that don't want to get released. Tom Brady is sort of a unicorn example of one player in a unique circumstance. People used to point to Brees as signing "team-friendly" deals because it would temporarily clear up cap space but it all counts against the cap eventually. That's why his contract is such an albatross around the franchise now. A contract being team-friendly and simply kicking the can down the road are two completely different things.
