Well there were "rumors" Houston was going to trade the #1 overall for Mallet, and then on Day 2 it was the first pick of the second round or third, then on Day 3 it was "they might still work out a trade despite taking Savage..." If he's not traded during the draft, just wait until preseason when some QB injures his toe or struggles for one quarter of football. Media will milk this for a long while.
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Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
Bossman
Footballguy
If NE doesn't trade Garoppolo ... then it's a safe bet that Brady has spoke to Belechick and told him this will be his last season.
Doesn't want a farewell tour. Just announce the fact after the season.
There is no other logic for NE to keep JG and give up a potentially lucrative deal when the options of keeping him after this season are so limited. (tag @ $22m)
(I'm not buying the "Brady insurance" reasoning. They've never had Brady insurance and only needed it one time in his 15 seasons)
Doesn't want a farewell tour. Just announce the fact after the season.
There is no other logic for NE to keep JG and give up a potentially lucrative deal when the options of keeping him after this season are so limited. (tag @ $22m)
(I'm not buying the "Brady insurance" reasoning. They've never had Brady insurance and only needed it one time in his 15 seasons)
Bossman
Footballguy
As much as Brady says he wants to play ... gotta think with recent events, mom sick, deflategate saga, won another SB, ... maybe playing golf with dad and friends doesn't seem like such a bad option now.
He still has his business in health and fitness products along with interest in Under Armor and Uggs. He can stay busy if he chooses to hang up the cleats.
Money - isn't a factor. Him and his wife have enough to support their grandchildrens grandchildren.
Health - Still healthy. Why risk it.
Family - Young kids to raise. Mom sick / parents aging.
Competition / Accolades - GOAT. Nothing left to prove.
As much as I'd like to see him play for another 4 years ... there is a lot more incentive now for him to retire than previous years. Might be time to go live the easy life.
So yeah, JG would be off the table at any price.
Boston
Footballguy
The fact that they have the same agent would make this an easier transition...if in-fact Brady has decided he is calling it quits after something like two more seasons than Jimmy G (and obviously the Pats) would be fully informed and could lay out the long-term plan for this...I can't imagine watching the Pats without Brady but if something like this happens than I would definitely want Garropolo to be the successor...
Boston
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I think it'll still go on for a couple of pages as the Pats fans try to convince you that BB told CLE which players to draft so he could make the trade AFTER Training Camp starts to make sure that he has insurance in case Brady gets hurt in it...
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-OZ-
Footballguy
2 years prompts them to prefer to keep but if someone breaks the bank, they'd take it and find the new guy in 2019.
Boston
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
This thread contains some great hilarity.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
You fools allowed this thread to fall to page 4, please do not let this happen again.
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Jimmy Garoppolo - QB - Patriots - March 16, 2017
Profootballtalk reports there's a "persistent belief within league circles" that the Patriots "truly" want to keep Jimmy Garoppolo.
The idea being, despite Tom Brady's continued elite play, he turns 40 in August, and could have his Peyton Manning decline at any given moment. It's a valid concern for the Patriots, but by keeping Garoppolo for 2017, they would be forced to give him the franchise tag if they wanted him for 2018. That would be untenable if Brady remains under contract, as he's insisted he will.
Source: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com
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Jimmy Garoppolo - QB - Patriots - March 16, 2017
Profootballtalk reports there's a "persistent belief within league circles" that the Patriots "truly" want to keep Jimmy Garoppolo.
The idea being, despite Tom Brady's continued elite play, he turns 40 in August, and could have his Peyton Manning decline at any given moment. It's a valid concern for the Patriots, but by keeping Garoppolo for 2017, they would be forced to give him the franchise tag if they wanted him for 2018. That would be untenable if Brady remains under contract, as he's insisted he will.
Source: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So let's see, do we shop away a guy we think is our next franchise QB? Or do we keep him and leave ourselves a weakness somewhere for ONE year?
bostonfred
Footballguy
Will be interesting to see if the pats try to negotiate an extension with him.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I imagine we will hear news of that soon enough to try and drive up the price whether it's true or not.
Bossman
Footballguy
What way does keeping him leave a weakness somewhere for one year?
Not busting bb's ... just didn't understand the comment.
Because keeping him would mean sacrificing additional draft picks which would likely strengthen the team for the next 4 years or more.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
Bossman
Footballguy
I'd rather have the franchise QB.
Your saying that for one year you sacrifice the picks / rookies that you would have received in trading JG in exchange for a franchise QB in year 2.
I would agree with this. If you didn't already have Brady for the next 4 years.
bostonfred
Footballguy
He hasn't told the team that.
Manning 71,940
Favre 71,838
Brees 66,111
Brady 61,582
Manning 539
Favre 508
Brees 465
Brady 456
3 good years gets him there. 2 great years of 5100 yards and 42 tds would do it. One record setting year would get him very close.
Manning 5477
Brees 5476
Brady 5235
Brees 5208
Brees 5177
Brees 5162
Marino 5084
Brees 5069
(Just to put into context how awesome Brees is too)
Manning 55
Brady 50
Manning 49
Marino 48
If he puts up a 5500 yard, 56 td season, he will be within easy striking distance of the cater records in 2018. And i think that is their unspoken goal, with them dumping blount's 19 tds and replacing him with another receiving rb, adding cooks, and hopefully having a healthy gronk. One last run at the record books.
He had 4770/36 two years ago. 3554/28/2 in 12 games last year, which pro rates to almost exactly 4770/36 again. But with those 19 Blount tds replaced by Gronk and Cooks, and another year of development with Mitchell and Hogan, and an easyish schedule - if they really go for it, i think they think it's possible.
I don't see any way he doesn't want two years to try for it, maybe three. Whether he's up to the task is a different story, but I just can't imagine him saying ok this is my last year when he's this close.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
LMFAO. NFW he puts up 5500/56.
No question in my mind he will need 3 seasons to pass Manning in yards and TDs. And I will take the under on both. He looked great at 39, but I don't see him maintaining the same top level of performance at both 40 and 41.
Plus, while we know Brady is driven, two things. First, he is already widely recognized as the GOAT; it's not like he needs the be at the top of the leaderboards to justify his legacy. Second, he just finished a season in which the "chip on shoulder" factor should have been much higher, and he still didn't produce at the pace being discussed here. There is no reason to believe his motivation is any higher now.
Also, as much as I'm sure BB loves Brady, I very seriously doubt that he would construct a season plan (or two seasons' plans) around getting Brady records. I expect BB to be focused on winning. To be sure, those two things are complementary, but they are not exactly the same.
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Right - and that's the point. We don't know.
You might be right but I've never gotten the feeling, other than the one year with Randy Moss, that Brady or more importantly BB, put all that much weight on stats. Like JWB wrote, he's already the GOAT - getting statistic records wouldn't change that.
I'm not saying he's definitely done or even thinks he's done, but if we're discussing his retirement next February we can look back at how it all fit.
Spike
Footballguy
This type of post makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
"If he puts up a 5500 yard, 56 td season" Yeah, 'cuz that's so commonly done.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Of course it's reasonable to say he won't do something that's never been done. I do think they would like to take a shot at records this year and next.
Uncharacteristically trading for a stud receiver, adding a receiving back, and not yet resigning a back who rushed for 19 tds are all moves that support this.
Keeping jimmy g - if they do - supports this as well. Give Brady two years to pass Manning for the career records and load the team with receiving options. Then let him retire as the best that ever lived, and hand the reigns over to jg.
I'm not saying he WILL set the records, just that I think they're legitimately going to take a shot at them. This isn't about my fandom, this is about predicting Brady and jg's future value, which are the purpose of this thread.
Uncharacteristically trading for a stud receiver, adding a receiving back, and not yet resigning a back who rushed for 19 tds are all moves that support this.
Keeping jimmy g - if they do - supports this as well. Give Brady two years to pass Manning for the career records and load the team with receiving options. Then let him retire as the best that ever lived, and hand the reigns over to jg.
I'm not saying he WILL set the records, just that I think they're legitimately going to take a shot at them. This isn't about my fandom, this is about predicting Brady and jg's future value, which are the purpose of this thread.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I love the flippant talk about tagging Garoppollo in 2018.
That would mean NE would be spending over $43M and over 1/4 of their cap number at QB. It would also mean they would be paying a clipboard holder likely over $23M to stand on the sideline with no guarantee he'd be on the team any longer than 2019 (assuming they would tag him a second time).
Good luck with making that work.
.
That would mean NE would be spending over $43M and over 1/4 of their cap number at QB. It would also mean they would be paying a clipboard holder likely over $23M to stand on the sideline with no guarantee he'd be on the team any longer than 2019 (assuming they would tag him a second time).
Good luck with making that work.
.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
Or there's the chance they don't have to tag him twice because he takes over for Brady in 2019. Or 2018 for that matter.
I have heard about as much talk about this as I would ever want to listen to, but if BB keeps JG this year, it does not mean that there is a firm conclusion moving forward. The logic would be that it buys NE another year to see where things stand. Maybe Brady gets hurt or his performance drops. Maybe Garoppolo has to play a few games and plays poorly. Maybe Brissett looks great in training camp or practice and they decide they can move Garoppolo. Maybe an NFC title contender floors them with an offer for Brady not Garoppolo. Maybe Brady retires. Maybe they have their eye on a kid in next year's draft as a potential replacement for Brady.
There are a lot of ways this could play out, yet the one everyone seems to point to is Brady having a $22 million cap hit and Garoppolo getting franchise for $23 million and having a massive cap hit at the QB position. There are a lot of outcomes in this situation.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
For one year? If you want to go with JG as your next QB?
Yes they can make that work.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If they were planning to move on to Garoppolo, they would sign him to a long term contract and not have to pay him $23 million and take that cap hit in one year. They would space it out and not double up on the cap charge for two starting QB's.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yes, this is probably true.
The people of the mindset "they will take whatever they can get" just don't get it. UNLESS of course they don't view JG as their next QB. Only they know what they think of JG, hence this monstrous thread of conjecture.
Bossman
Footballguy
They should just sign Garoppolo then. So easy. Problem solved.
Good thing Garoppolo doesn't have a say in the matter. Otherwise there would be no way he signs on as the backup.
Has Brady done anything to make people think that he can't play at a high level for another 4 years?
People want to bring up how other QB's fell off a cliff at age xx ... some need to realize that this TB cat is a different animal.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
So let's see, the past page or so has Brady breaking records in 2017, the Pats making moves with the intent to get Brady the single season yards/TD record, and Brady being the only QB to beat father time.
I think Brady is awesome. His style of play and recent play just MIGHT be sustainable for 4 more years. It probably won't be though, and I guarantee you that is how the Patriots organization views it.
However, all the unknowns are what makes this a debate. We have no idea what BB actually thinks of JG. We have no idea if BB plans to retire when Brady does. We have no idea how long Brady even WANTS to play despite what he says.
I still think they keep JG, like I said about 25 pages ago. A good cheap backup to a soon to be 40 year old QB. A guy who they might actually view as their next QB. If they really feel that way I don't see them trading him for a rookie or two that probably don't even impact the team in 2017.
Bossman
Footballguy
I'm so amazed how easily BB can brainwash the mediea, NFL execs, fans ... into thinking that JG is off the table.
CLE is going to offer a kings ransom to try and pry away JG from NE .... and BB will answer the phone call from CLE with ...
"OK, we planned on keeping him ... but if you really have to have him, here's what we will need."
The way this is playing out, Pats could very well have the 1.01 pick this year.
CLE is going to offer a kings ransom to try and pry away JG from NE .... and BB will answer the phone call from CLE with ...
"OK, we planned on keeping him ... but if you really have to have him, here's what we will need."
The way this is playing out, Pats could very well have the 1.01 pick this year.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
You think people believe all the crap reported? Yikes. Delusional much?
Here is the media:
1015 pm: "Browns to put together a package for Kirk Cousins"
1034 pm: "Browns have no intentions of offering a trade for Kirk Cousins"
1045 pm: "An NFL exec with knowledge of the situation says the Browns will try and trade for Kirk Cousins"
1049 pm "AN NFL exec with direct knowledge oft he situation say the Browns have no plans to try and trade for Kirk Cousins"
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We can all play "what if" and go around in circles for another 25 pages, but the fact is we don't know a whole lot.Bossman said:
Maybe Brady is saying he is playing another 3-5 years to force the issue and get the Patriots to trade Garoppolo when it is possible that NE has already told Brady you get 1 or 2 more years but that's it. If anything, BB has moved on from players before they became less productive (see Wilfork or Revis as examples). BB may not want to have to reach the point of deciding what to do with a once former great (like DEN and Manning). Brady himself has said he doesn't expect he will be treated any differently than other players and could be cut or traded like anyone else.
Just because Brady says he is playing 5 years and just because he played at an elite level does not mean he is playing for 5 more years at an elite level. Brady is entering uncharted territory. No one has ventured forth much beyond where he is now. Maybe he keeps doing well. Maybe he does better. But at some point he is going to do worse. No one knows when that will occur.
BB may turn around and say JG at a certain point is better than Brady or better for the team than Brady. Like many have pointed out, if there are two guys that are close to equals and one is 15 years younger, it makes better business sense to keep the younger player. Sure, it's nice to think that Brady circa 2016 will be rolled out again in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021. But at some point that becomes more like wishful thinking than a practical reality.
Clearly what NE does with Garoppolo will tell us a lot where they stand with Brady. Maybe NE is trying to extort and extract CLE for as much that can fit in a truck in terms of a bounty of picks from the Browns. It wouldn't shock me if they traded JG or if they kept him. Where it will get interesting if they keep him is if they try to extend him.
bostonfred
Footballguy
That's why I think the most telling thing is whether they try to extend him. If they are serious about keeping him, i would expect his agent to leak news of the talks, because they want Cleveland aggressively pursuing him to push his price up. If they aren't talking, I'd expect the team and his agent not to say a word, because they know the Patriots are already under pressure to #### or get off the pot for exactly the reasons you've said. Just talking about an extension would diminish the Patriots leverage in trade talks - which is great if you know you're getting traded, but not if you want to get traded now.Bronco Billy said:
I also think jg would be willing to take a home town discount. Not out of any allegiance to new england, but because new england offers much more for his long term career value. Ask brock if he'd rather have stayed in Denver for a smaller contact. He's going to see substantially less money in his first 4 years than he would have by staying. JG in Cleveland could suffer the same fate.
He's 25 now and wouldn't have a chance to start until he was at least 27, maybe 28. But a 3 year deal worth 30-40 million might be enough to keep him in place as the heir apparent. He's a hot commodity now but he's only scheduled to make a million right now and a down year could Chase Daniels him, leaving him with a string of contacts for good backup money. Like you said, he might not be worth franchising next year - which means he probably won't get franchise money next year.
The pats can offer him tees of millions of dollars right now, plus an opportunity to take over a team with the best coach in nfl history, with a good offensive system, that he knows well, with young receivers like Mitchell and Cooks. That may be his best chance at making many tens of millions more. And in spite of all their free agent moves, they still have the cap room to offer it.
The pats don't want anyone talking about any kind of extension. If anything, they want word getting out that they don't plan to trade him, because it might drive Cleveland to their maximum offer. But that leverage goes away if the Browns get another qb, or fall in love with a guy like Watson, or on draft day when they exercise their picks. If the end game is to trade him, the Patriots are playing a dangerous game waiting and only have a few weeks left to decide.
Maybe they're ok with that though. If he's not that valuable, as some in here are saying, then they might be able to bring him back next year without franchising him, which will be a big point used by the pats side of the trade negotiations. If he plays out this year and doesn't get a brock offer, he might prefer the extension. If he can get a brock deal in free agency, he's be foolish to help the pats trade him now or take an extension when he could get his choice of teams next year
There's a lot involved in this negotiation. Not surprised it's moving slowly.
Bossman
Footballguy
Not delusional ... in fact, my theories are based on common sense.ghostguy123 said:
Common sense tells me there is no way the Patriots can keep JG until Brady is done.
No one has been able to tell me a scenario that makes sense where JG and TB are teamates for 2018, 2019 and 2020.
Can't sign him. He's not signing on as a backup anywhere.
Tag him? ... you let me know which players you are going to cut to add $22m in cap space to make room for your QB tandem @ $45m
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ghostguy123
Footballguy
Assuming Brady plays that long is borderline delusional.
I am saying that is makes perfect sense to keep JG and make a decision next year.
No, they will not be teammates in 2018,2019,and 2020. You are correct there.
Also, the delusional part I was referring to is that you believe Cleveland keeps upping their offer because of crap spewed i the media. Yes, that is delusional.
Pats will end up with the #1 pick because BB brainwashes cleveland?? Ultra delusional.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
As already posted, if the Pats are willing to franchise Garoppolo they are willing to name him as Brady's successor. If that is the case, they won't be taking a $45 million cap hit for two QB's in 2018. That would also mean that Brady won't be playing for 3-5 more years IN NEW ENGLAND.
But if they somehow wanted to pay full freight for both QB's, the team as currently constituted has enough cap room to take on a franchise tag for a QB. They have enough cap room. They might have to rework some deals to accommodate rookies, but they could swing it. It wouldn't make any sense, but they could probably do it TODAY. Who knows about next year.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Yeah, there are worse problems to have than needing to work in one year of a franchise tag for your QB of the future.
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Tau837
Footballguy
Depends on how you define high level. Playing at a high level for another 4 years requires him to play at a high level in his age 40-43 seasons. If high level means good enough to be a solid starting QB, I believe he can do that. If high level means 5000/50, I do not believe he can do that.Bossman said:
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
This is where "high level" carries different meaning to different people. If NE is still making regular appearances in the AFCCG and SB, I don't think Brady or the Pats really care if Brady has 3,500 or 5,000 passing yards or 20 or 50 TD's. As long as they are getting their 12+ wins and winning in the post season, it's probably a don't care what his stat line is.
However, if they start turning the ball over, scoring a lot fewer points, and losing games and Brady is contributing to that, well, that's different.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
The Pats may also be able to not only buy another year to make a decision, but also save some money in the process.
If you are JG right now and these are your two options, which do you take?
1- Play out this year for about a million, then get franchise tagged next year "IF" you don't get injured and "IF" you don't play bad if called upon.
or
2- Sign a 1 year extension for around 15 million with a good chunk guaranteed.
Sign me up for option 2. It guaranteed I am a rich man, just a little less rich than if I am fortunate enough to get the franchise tag next year, and then I am still in position for my next deal as if I took option 1.
People are assuming all kinds of different things in this thread. For my purposes here, I am assuming the Pats are dead set on keeping JG, and also that JG isn't a moron who goes for the most money at all costs risk be damned.
If you are JG right now and these are your two options, which do you take?
1- Play out this year for about a million, then get franchise tagged next year "IF" you don't get injured and "IF" you don't play bad if called upon.
or
2- Sign a 1 year extension for around 15 million with a good chunk guaranteed.
Sign me up for option 2. It guaranteed I am a rich man, just a little less rich than if I am fortunate enough to get the franchise tag next year, and then I am still in position for my next deal as if I took option 1.
People are assuming all kinds of different things in this thread. For my purposes here, I am assuming the Pats are dead set on keeping JG, and also that JG isn't a moron who goes for the most money at all costs risk be damned.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I probably wasn't clear. It's not contradictory, it just implies that jg wants something different.
If the Patriots are serious about keeping him and jg wants to be kept, he'd just sign.
If the Patriots are serious about keeping him but jg wants to go, they would leak the information to keep Cleveland pursuing him, and refuse to sign, forcing the pats hand.
If the Patriots actually want to trade him, and jg wants to be traded, he would be wise to say nothing, to make sure the pats get an offer that will give him his freedom right now.
Does that make sense?
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Captain Quinoa
Footballguy
probably 1.1, 1.12, 2.1 and all three 2nds next year.Bossman said:
