Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Just a little icing on that cake. I wonder if it occurred to JimmyG? I bet it did.
And TD as I type this.
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Patriots looking for a 1st and 4th for Garoppolo (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
- Start date
And TD as I type this.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s pretty accurate, yep.Garpp
God this guy is good. I honestly did not see this win against JAX coming.
It’s like back when I was pretty good at Madden, and I would play my terrible Niners and beat the n00bs that would always take the Pats or the Packers or whoever the #1 team at the time was.
What Garapolo is doing with this team is insane. And it’s pretty much Garapolo.
Words don’t suffice to properly express how great it is that the Niners can invest elsewhere in the 2018 draft.
...and the Pats will get what, a 2.08? 2.09?
The way this scenario unfolded is truly amazing. JimmyG is the truth.
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The Duff Man
Footballguy
The better he plays, the more credit I give Bill for Brady's accomplishments. Probably elevated the guy from a hall of fame career to #1 ever.
Dude knows how to get the most out of his QBs.
Dude knows how to get the most out of his QBs.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I guess he looks to be for real. To what level of real who knows, but real enough to get a nice contract
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I asked for months for someone to make the case that Jimmy was a franchise QB and worth the price but no one stepped up. They just kept yammering on that he was worth at least that much and more. No case, just that teams needed franchise QBs and they would pay any price just because.
A lot of people are patting themselves on the butt saying I told ya so.
Um, remind us again who he has beaten?
Set aside a special place in Canton.
Mitchel Trubisky, T.J. Yates, a struggling Marcus Mariota, and Blake Bortles.
A lot of people are patting themselves on the butt saying I told ya so.
Um, remind us again who he has beaten?
Set aside a special place in Canton.
Mitchel Trubisky, T.J. Yates, a struggling Marcus Mariota, and Blake Bortles.
Cenobite
Footballguy
He beat decent defenses coming to a team during the season after not starting but a few games in the NFL. He seems to be a good QB and worth the price the 49ers paid.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yeah and he beat em pretty much by himself.
=========================
- CHI game - (Five FGs) Robbie Gould 33 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 28 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 35 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 34 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 24 Yd Field Goal
- HOU game - (Four FGs) Robbie Gould 52 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 35 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 25 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 41 Yd Field Goal
- TEN game - (Five FGs) Robbie Gould 38 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 48 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 28 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 50 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 48 Yd Field Goal, Robbie Gould 45 Yd Field Goal
- JAX game - (defensive TD) Turnovers JAX 3 Dontae Johnson 50 Yd Interception Return
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Cold Dead Hands
Footballguy
Huh... I had no idea that Trubisky, Yates, Mariota, and Bortles started playing Iron Man football. I'm assuming they play free safety. Learn something new everyday.
⚡DEADHEAD⚡
Footballguy
I'll never understand why people match up positions to see who is better in a particular game. Means nothing. Trent Dilfer and Kerry Collins played in a Super Bowl somehow.
Short Corner
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
This is the fallacy known as a “straw man argument”
The Straw Man:
1. Franchise QB $ is high, I challenge you to tell me why Garapolo deserves it.
2. Garapolo has beaten QBs X, Y, Z & Q
3. By this very specific, selective, extremely limited & somewhat bizarre “head to head vs other QBs” to define his achievements, Garapolo is not worth franchise $
You set ‘em up & you knocked ‘em down!
Problem with your argument is that Garapolo didn’t “beat” opposing QBs. He beat opposing teams. He beat opposing defenses.
He did those things with a truly subpar OL, and limited & subpar weapons while performing exceptionally well.
He also beat the #1 pass defense in the NFL. This seems particularly relevant to include since Garapolo passes to have success at his job.
Moreover, one can also compare Garapolo to the QBs who didn’t beat Jacksonville. And there are some very good names on that list.
chinawildman
Footballguy
LOL hey you know what you're right... I forgot Beathard beat Manning this year... looks like there might be a QB controversy in SF this offseason.
You have to be joking, right? If joking, good troll job.
If serious, give your head a shake. Since you're a Browns fan I can understand the frustration of not getting Jimmy for yourself. But don't take that pain out on logical football fans in here by saying he isn't good.
This is as bad as when the Browns said Carson wasn't good enough to be a top 20 QB. Just admit it sucks you didn't get him, and give props where they're due. Jimmy is for real.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
It appears that I may have been wrong about this guy not being starter material.
Bossman
Footballguy
simsarge
Footballguy
If the Pats saw JG all day, every day they had to know he was at the least pretty good, if not better. They were trying to get a 1st rnd draft pick that seems to suggest that they did know he was better than pretty good.
Why would they let him go for less than a 1st?
They have to know that Brady, as Iron Man as he is only has a couple years max left and they're only one missed block away from him being out for extended time and they're using Hoyer for their Super Bowl run. I don't get it.
Why would they let him go for less than a 1st?
They have to know that Brady, as Iron Man as he is only has a couple years max left and they're only one missed block away from him being out for extended time and they're using Hoyer for their Super Bowl run. I don't get it.
Bossman
Footballguy
Cenobite
Footballguy
Reminds me of when the talk was about Mark Sanchez "beating" P. Manning and Brady.
Bossman
Footballguy
Pats could not keep JG after this year because his contract will be up.
JG wouldn't sign a contract next year to be a backup to Brady ... when he'd have multiple offers from other teams to start.
NE couldn't franchise him because the cost would be too much for a backup QB ... and what's the point of a one year franchise tag if Brady plays again next year?
What's not to get? What would have made more sense for the Patriots to do in your opinion?
Boston
Footballguy
This article by Mike Reiss pretty much sums it all up...
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4809687/revisiting-factors-that-led-patriots-to-accept-2nd-rounder-for-jimmy-g
http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4809687/revisiting-factors-that-led-patriots-to-accept-2nd-rounder-for-jimmy-g
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
It was well known that JG would not sign back with NE because he wanted his shot to start. I don't understand what is so hard to comprehend either.
NE wanted a 1st rounder, they were offered (reportedly) Cleveland's second round pick. They declined because they wanted a 1st rounder and stuck to their guns. The rest of the NFL called NE's bluff... NE got close to the trade deadline and blinked first and let him go for a lesser pick than offered prior to the 17 draft. I also think NE wasn't sure how Brady would look, so they genuinely wanted to keep him. Brady looks fine. So he's expendable.
Happens all the time... teams take gambles and they sometimes don't pay off. NE was able to get something rather than nothing for this gamble. IMO it worked out just fine for everyone.
simsarge
Footballguy
Not a comprehension problem, it was a lack of details. I could have googled Jimmy Garoppolo or sifted through 43 pages of he said, she said. But I figured I come to the SP and ask for some info. Which @Boston was able to provide.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Not directed at you specifically, just several people who have, over the course of the season, questioned this move. There was a big poll about it and a lot of debate. One person in particular seemed to have some major sour grapes about it for what reason who knows. I think I know who it was but I don't want to be wrong and name the wrong person. It was a very smart move for NE and a bargain for SF. Didn't mean to single you out specifically
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Unrestricted...but he will get the franchise tag before he sees free agency...I honestly don't see a scenario where he is not in San Fran next year...
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
And don’t see why he wouldn’t want to stay. Great area, team on the upswing, young enthusiastic coach. There are far worse places to play than San Fran.
simsarge
Footballguy
Agree. I can't imagine them letting him even photoshop his face on another uniform.
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Boston
Footballguy
I think many had Cousins pegged for San Fran...with Shanny it seemed like a great fit but now that's gone...he is a real interesting one if he gets on the market...there will be quite a few contenders for his services...I could see Elway making a run at him as he has already tried to fix their QB woes thru the draft and he doesn't appear to be the most patient GM...the Jags would probably take a run at him if they decide to move on from Bortles...the funny thing about Cousins is Washington has never been shy about spending $ but for some reason they seem to have drawn a line in the sand with Cousins...
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
The same thing that the Packers did with Favre, that the 9ers did with Montana, and that the Colts did with Manning.
It was foolish to think Brady was going to be an elite QB until he turns 45. I think Bellichick is hanging them up when Brady does. Otherwise there was no sense in giving up 15 years of likely franchise QB play in exchange for hoping to scrap one or two more years out of a 40+ year old QB.
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Bossman
Footballguy
So you are proposing NE should have traded Brady to SF at the trade deadline instead of JG?
... or are you saying NE should have traded Brady before this season and started JG?
... or hold JG until the season is over and then trade Brady after he won the SB?
Not sure what your proposing but I can't imagine any scenario where any of the above would happen.
simsarge
Footballguy
Seems like a reasonable argument. But what if they make it to and lose the Super Bowl or the AFC Championship game? How do you show Brady the door?
Boston
Footballguy
He is a contender for the MVP award and has his team one step away from being the #1 seed in the AFC...he leads the NFL in completions, attempts, passing yards and yards per attempt...he has 30 TDs to 8 ints...he is absolutely their best chance of winning more titles in the short-term...I am as big of a Jimmy G fan as there is but the timing just didn't work out and there is no reason to make a move like this when there are multiple titles on the line...I trust BB to find Brady's successor and if it means another title causes a few bad years I am absolutely OK with that...the Brady/BB era is making history and there is no need to pull the plug until it is officially over...
simsarge
Footballguy
I don't remember even a little bit how good Montana or favre were playing. But I think with Peyton the writing was pretty much on the wall. He was just only pretty good and was possibly hurt to the point that coming back at any level was pretty suspect.
Brady's been playing great. IMO the dilemma for the Pats was what were they going to get now vs later. Maybe they were hoping for something like when the Vikings seemed poised for a championship type season and Bridgewater got hurt. If Bradford drew a 1st and a 4th, certainly Garoppolo was worth more.
Would the Packers be in the playoffs if they'd traded for him?
Brady's been playing great. IMO the dilemma for the Pats was what were they going to get now vs later. Maybe they were hoping for something like when the Vikings seemed poised for a championship type season and Bridgewater got hurt. If Bradford drew a 1st and a 4th, certainly Garoppolo was worth more.
Would the Packers be in the playoffs if they'd traded for him?
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'm saying they should have kept both this year and then signed JG and let Brady move on in the coming offseason.
Brady will be 41 next year. What's the over under on the number of elite seasons he has left starting then? Either 0.5 or 1.5. About what favre, Montana, and Peyton had on their new digs and even with that hindsight none of those teams would have changed their decision on letting them walk.
Brady is obviously playing much better than any of favre, Manning, or Montana were when their teams moved on, however all of those guys went on to have at least one more elite season (Peyton had multiple and even broke the single season TD record) and assuming Andrew Luck's career isn't over prematurely none of those teams would have changed their mind in hindsight.
I actually think that's a good way of looking at it because that takes the emotion out of it. Once they were removed from the player for a few years the team and even the fans realized it was a good move even though the player was still great. In New England people are still too emotional because they're not removed from Brady prior to believing he's still great. Packers/Colts/9ers fans had more objectivity by the time they found out that favre/Peyton/Montana were still great because they had already come to terms with it by then.
bostonfred
Footballguy
If they get another year and a half of elite play from Brady and another year in decline, Brady will very likely break manning's remaining career records and may even beat out Brees as well. With all due respect to the guys you mentioned, they weren't in the same situation Brady is. Every win he gets in the regular season or playoffs sets the record he already holds higher and further out of reach for the next guy. Every title elevates Brady to another level. Imagine if Jordan didn't retire, or if Gretzky did. That kind of greatness transcends eras.
Dont get me wrong, I'd rather have Jimmy g, or have gotten more for him, but he could be a first ballot hall of famer and I would still take a couple more years of Brady instead. I'm not watching the patriots hoping they get pro bowl play from their quarterback and maybe make the playoffs. I'm not hoping they add to a list of titles I wasn't alive to watch. I'm watching hoping that a guy ive watched for most of my adult life gets to a level that nobody before or after ever achieves.
If I had a choice between just a chance at one more title with Brady and two guaranteed titles with Jimmy it's not even a question give me the chance at a title with Brady.
Tau837
Footballguy
The situations were completely different.
With Montana, he was MVP in 1990 and then played just 1 game in the 1991 and 1992 seasons due to injury... and Young played so well in his absence that he was MVP in 1992. Brady has not missed time due to injury and there was no indication that JG was a HOF caliber QB as there had been with Young. Apples and oranges.
With Manning, he missed the entire 2011 season, the Colts went 2-14 and landed the #1 pick, and there was a generational QB available in the draft. And at the time the Colts had to make their decision, it was not a given that Manning would come back completely healthy. Apples and oranges.
With Favre, he made the Pro Bowl in 2007 after not making it the previous 3 seasons, but he had not been 1st team All Pro or won a major award since 1997. Then he officially retired in March 2008, after having waffled about retiring in the previous offseason. Apples and oranges.
I don't necessarily disagree with your position, but I don't think the other situations you referenced were truly analogous.
I also think it is (and should be) hard for a franchise to push its all time greatest player and one of the few greatest players in NFL history out, even if his play is slipping... and his play really hasn't slipped much if at all.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Let me get this straight - you’d rather have rather have a “chance” at 1 SB win with Brady, than have 2 guaranteed SB wins with Garapolo?bostonfred said:
no offense, but that’s crazypants.
Lets say Brady gets that 1 sack too many that so many older QBs get (Montana, Garcia with back injuries, Young with concussions) - you’re gonna have so much more fun as a fan watching Hoyer captain your team to a 6-10 season as compared to watching TWO GUARANTEED SUPERBOWL WINS from JimmyG?
if yes, you’re not a football fan, and you’re not a patriots fan. You’re a Tom Brady fan. You need to get a life-sized Fathead of Brady for your wall & whisper sweet nothings to it. Maybe get one of those oversized teddy bears & slap a Brady jersy on it to cuddle with.
Because that just makes none sense to me. We, as fans of a team, want to watch the best product we can watch. We want our teams to win superbowls.
Perhaps it’s a byproduct of being a pats fan - you’re so spoiled by winning superbowls that you expect to win them and don’t realize how rare it is for other teams.
Who knows. But the “I’d rather lose with Brady than win with JimmyG” (guaranteed, no less) is not a concept I can fathom.
To each their own though.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Bossman said:
