Patriots vying for #3 seed (1 Viewer)

[Pat Patriot]

All through last nights game I have to listen to Madden and Michaels talk about how the Patriots are fighting for the #3 seed so they can avoid the Colts in the 2nd round. Really?Unlike some other teams, the Patriots dont sit their players late in the year. The Patriots play to win each game. As BB says, "Thats what we do." Also as BB says, "We play the schedule they point in front of us."Do you really think there is talk in the Patriot camp that if they win out and Cincy loses against KC that they can get the #3 seed? The Patriots WANT Indy. Indy was their biggest embarassment this year (SD was pretty bad as well).I dont want the Pats to get the #3 seed. I want a round 1 game with Jax or Pitt and a rd 2 matchup with Indy. It needs to happen.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Wouldn't they still play the Colts in the AFC Championship round? Why does it matter which week they play the Colts?

 

[djcolts]

Wouldn't they still play the Colts in the AFC Championship round? Why does it matter which week they play the Colts?

It is media hype. I don't think the Pats care who they play, or whether they are the #3 or #4 seed. The media cares (specifically CBS) - they would want a NE/Indy AFC Championship game more than any other matchup. That I'm pretty sure of.

 

[Capella]

Wouldn't they still play the Colts in the AFC Championship round?  Why does it matter which week they play the Colts?

It is media hype. I don't think the Pats care who they play, or whether they are the #3 or #4 seed. The media cares (specifically CBS) - they would want a NE/Indy AFC Championship game more than any other matchup. That I'm pretty sure of.

They wouldn't be too upset with a Pitt-NE first-round game either (unless ABC gets it).

 

[JohnnyU]

The media cares (specifically CBS) - they would want a NE/Indy AFC Championship game more than any other matchup. That I'm pretty sure of.

You are probably right, and I would love it if the Colts get a chance to whip them twice in the same year.

 

[RedRaiders]

Round 2 matchup isn't automatic if they stay as the 4 seed. Right now I wouldn't be too confident in Cincinnati beating Pittsburgh - giving the Colts the Steelers in round 2 and sending the Pats to Denver .

 

[Sack-Religious]

Simple. If the Pats make the AFC Championship Game (big if) and Indy were to lose in the second round, then the AFC Championship would be in NE. Seems like something to play for to me.

 

[BGP]

I don't think Belichick is afraid to play anybody.

 

[tick dog]

The media cares (specifically CBS) - they would want a NE/Indy AFC Championship game more than any other matchup.  That I'm pretty sure of.

...I would love it if the Colts get a chance to whip them twice in the same year.

Being pros, I bet Indy says they want that chance, too. But if I'm the Colts, the Pats are the LAST friggin' team on earth I'd want coming into the dome. The biggest equalizer -- Pats pass rush -- is healthy again, which means Peyton's chances of casually hanging in the pocket and torching the terrible secondary go down significantly.

 

[P Boy]

Round 2 matchup isn't automatic if they stay as the 4 seed. Right now I wouldn't be too confident in Cincinnati beating Pittsburgh - giving the Colts the Steelers in round 2 and sending the Pats to Denver .

And DEN is the last place the Pats want to go.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Round 2 matchup isn't automatic if they stay as the 4 seed.  Right now I wouldn't be too confident in Cincinnati beating Pittsburgh - giving the Colts the Steelers in round 2 and sending the Pats to Denver .

And DEN is the last place the Pats want to go.

That was kind of my point. The Patriots have just as much reason to not want to play in Denver as they do to meet the Colts in Indy. If the Pats are to return to the Super Bowl, I think they know they have to beat Indy. Might as well beat them in the 2nd round as compared to the AFC Championship.

 

[jurb26]

Wouldn't they still play the Colts in the AFC Championship round? Why does it matter which week they play the Colts?

It is media hype. I don't think the Pats care who they play, or whether they are the #3 or #4 seed.

I couldn't disagree more. Any time you give yourself the opportunity and shot at another homefield game in the playoffs, you take it. It is not set in stone that Den and Indy will win the Divisional round. If both loose, then NE hosts the AFCC as the #3 seed (granted they win 2 games). Minimal you say? Maybe, but worth having the #3 seed no doubt.

 

[djcolts]

Wouldn't they still play the Colts in the AFC Championship round?  Why does it matter which week they play the Colts?

It is media hype. I don't think the Pats care who they play, or whether they are the #3 or #4 seed.

I couldn't disagree more. Any time you give yourself the opportunity and shot at another homefield game in the playoffs, you take it. It is not set in stone that Den and Indy will win the Divisional round. If both loose, then NE hosts the AFCC as the #3 seed (granted they win 2 games). Minimal you say? Maybe, but worth having the #3 seed no doubt.

I'll make a counterpoint that I think Pony Boy and Pat Patriot already made, but I'll borrow from them and reiterate and expand on it:I think the #3 seed has that benefit, but the downside of having a tougher road to the Super Bowl with playing Pitt, Denver and then the AFC Championship (Indy being the most likely opponent). With the #4 seed, they would play Jax - the one team that no one thinks will make a Super Bowl run in the AFC - and then would likely play a "rusty" Colts team (with NE playoff demons) - and then they may avoid Denver all together if Cincy pulls an upset - and you'd have to like NE's chances against an inexperienced team even on the road.

 

[jurb26]

I'll make a counterpoint that I think Pony Boy and Pat Patriot already made, but I'll borrow from them and reiterate and expand on it:

I think the #3 seed has that benefit, but the downside of having a tougher road to the Super Bowl with playing Pitt, Denver and then the AFC Championship (Indy being the most likely opponent). With the #4 seed, they would play Jax - the one team that no one thinks will make a Super Bowl run in the AFC - and then would likely play a "rusty" Colts team (with NE playoff demons) - and then they may avoid Denver all together if Cincy pulls an upset - and you'd have to like NE's chances against an inexperienced team even on the road.

Well, NE already dominated the Steelers earlier this year ( ) and played Den much closer than they did Indy (on the road none the less while at home for Indy). Something tells me they wouldn't be the least bit worried about the fate you just laid out.

 

[djcolts]

I'll make a counterpoint that I think Pony Boy and Pat Patriot already made, but I'll borrow from them and reiterate and expand on it:

I think the #3 seed has that benefit, but the downside of having a tougher road to the Super Bowl with playing Pitt, Denver and then the AFC Championship (Indy being the most likely opponent).  With the #4 seed, they would play Jax - the one team that no one thinks will make a Super Bowl run in the AFC - and then would likely play a "rusty" Colts team (with NE playoff demons) - and then they may avoid Denver all together if Cincy pulls an upset - and you'd have to like NE's chances against an inexperienced team even on the road.

Well, NE already dominated the Steelers earlier this year ( ) and played Den much closer than they did Indy (on the road none the less while at home for Indy). Something tells me they wouldn't be the least bit worried about the fate you just laid out.

Just trying to make the argument. As a Colts fan - I'd love to see the Pats get the #3 seed. If the Colts play the Pats in the playoffs, it should be in the AFC Title game, and not before then. That would be exciting as a fan to be in the RCA Dome for that matchup (even if it ends in disappointment).

 

[P Boy]

Well, NE already dominated the Steelers earlier this year ( ) and played Den much closer than they did Indy (on the road none the less while at home for Indy). Something tells me they wouldn't be the least bit worried about the fate you just laid out.

Belichick is 2-6 lifetime vs DEN including 2-3 while with NE, while Shanahan is 7-3 as DEN HC vs NE. DEN is 3-1 vs Belichick's Pats during the Pats SB run the past 4 years.I doubt that the Pats would be comfortable coming into Invesco for a playoff game.

 

[bagger.]

Simple. If the Pats make the AFC Championship Game (big if) and Indy were to lose in the second round, then the AFC Championship would be in NE. Seems like something to play for to me.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

I doubt that the Pats would be comfortable coming into Invesco for a playoff game.

You mean like how Jacksonville was a few years ago....

 

[Judge Smails]

I think Bill B, like most great coaches, is a lot more focused on the execution by his own team than any opponent they put in front of him.

 

[P Boy]

I doubt that the Pats would be comfortable coming into Invesco for a playoff game.

You mean like how Jacksonville was a few years ago....

You don't think DEN doesn't remember that lesson. Trevor Pryce was talking about it on the radio yesterday, and Rod Smith has also mentioned it in the last week.Don't expect DEN to play down to anyone. That doesn't mean they won't get beat somewhere down the line, but rather that if they do get beat it won't be due to underperformance on their part.

Actually, watching the OAK game, this team is finally starting to focus & add a decided mean streak. After every score you didn't see any wild celebrating - in fact, Plummer was glaring after a score. Kind of refreshing from a team that didn't seem to want to step on teams' throats when they had the opponent down earlier in the year.

 

[jurb26]

I think Bill B, like most great coaches, is a lot more focused on the execution by his own team than any opponent they put in front of him.

This is exactly why they have a tendancy to win big games.

 

[Gr00vus]

I doubt that the Pats would be comfortable coming into Invesco for a playoff game.

You mean like how Jacksonville was a few years ago....

You don't think DEN doesn't remember that lesson. Trevor Pryce was talking about it on the radio yesterday, and Rod Smith has also mentioned it in the last week.Don't expect DEN to play down to anyone. That doesn't mean they won't get beat somewhere down the line, but rather that if they do get beat it won't be due to underperformance on their part.

Actually, watching the OAK game, this team is finally starting to focus & add a decided mean streak. After every score you didn't see any wild celebrating - in fact, Plummer was glaring after a score. Kind of refreshing from a team that didn't seem to want to step on teams' throats when they had the opponent down earlier in the year.

No doubt you're right about that, but I also attributed some of that to it being the Raiders they were playing - that's a throat everyone likes to step on when they can, especially the Broncos.

 

[packersfan]

Well, NE already dominated the Steelers earlier this year ( ) and played Den much closer than they did Indy (on the road none the less while at home for Indy). Something tells me they wouldn't be the least bit worried about the fate you just laid out.

Belichick is 2-6 lifetime vs DEN including 2-3 while with NE, while Shanahan is 7-3 as DEN HC vs NE. DEN is 3-1 vs Belichick's Pats during the Pats SB run the past 4 years.I doubt that the Pats would be comfortable coming into Invesco for a playoff game.

Jake Plummer still has to prove he can win a big playoff game and doing it against a Belichick-coached defense won't be easy. I don't see any reason why the Pats should be worried about playing Denver.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Anyone think Brady will play as much in this game as he did last week?

 

[packersfan]

Anyone think Brady will play as much in this game as he did last week?

Brady played into the fourth quarter of a meaningless Week 17 game last season. With the Patriots still having something to play for this week I think we have to assume he'll play a regular game.

 

[Gr00vus]

Anyone think Brady will play as much in this game as he did last week?

Brady played into the fourth quarter of a meaningless Week 17 game last season. With the Patriots still having something to play for this week I think we have to assume he'll play a regular game.

Plus I doubt now that the Patriots are on a roll they'll do anything that could derail it, the team has more to gain by staying hot than by going conservative to avoid injury.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Jake Plummer still has to prove he can win a big playoff game and doing it against a Belichick-coached defense won't be easy.

Plummer has won a playoff game before (in '98 with the Cardinals). And isn't ANY playoff game a big game? I think so. However, I have noticed when discussing a player's ability to win a 'big game', people often seem to call a playoff game a big game is they lose it, but do not if they win it (like in Peyton Manning's case, for example).

Anyone think Brady will play as much in this game as he did last week?

Why wouldn't he? The Patriots, with a win and a Bengals' loss, can get the number 3 seed in the AFC.

 

[NYCelt]

what if Cincy is up 28-10 going into the 4th. Time to call it a day?

 

[djcolts]

And isn't ANY playoff game a big game? I think so. However, I have noticed when discussing a player's ability to win a 'big game', people often seem to call a playoff game a big game is they lose it, but do not if they win it (like in Peyton Manning's case, for example).

 

[packersfan]

Jake Plummer still has to prove he can win a big playoff game and doing it against a Belichick-coached defense won't be easy.

Plummer has won a playoff game before (in '98 with the Cardinals).

Not quite the same as a playoff game for the Broncos against the Patriots.

And isn't ANY playoff game a big game? I think so. However, I have noticed when discussing a player's ability to win a 'big game', people often seem to call a playoff game a big game is they lose it, but do not if they win it (like in Peyton Manning's case, for example).

I think Plummer still has A LOT to prove as far as being a big-time NFL quarterback. He's had a fine season thus far but going up against the three-time champs (should that occur) is a whole lot different and it'll be interesting to see how Plummer responds to that type of challenge. We've already seen Peyton Manning suffer meltdowns against the Pats and he is, in my opinion, a far superior QB to Plummer. It's hardly out of the question to see Plummer struggling against the Pats.

 

[Ghost Rider]

So, if Plummer fails to lead the Broncos to a win over the Patriots in the playoffs, he still has a lot to prove? If that is the benchmark, then Peyton Manning and every other QB in the league still isn't proven, right?

 

[packersfan]

So, if Plummer fails to lead the Broncos to a win over the Patriots in the playoffs, he still has a lot to prove? If that is the benchmark, then Peyton Manning and every other QB in the league still isn't proven, right?

What has Plummer done in his career? Seriously. He's had a very good season this year; no argument. But what has he really won? How many division titles has he won? How many playoff games?

 

[CrossEyed]

So, if Plummer fails to lead the Broncos to a win over the Patriots in the playoffs, he still has a lot to prove? If that is the benchmark, then Peyton Manning and every other QB in the league still isn't proven, right?

What has Plummer done in his career? Seriously. He's had a very good season this year; no argument. But what has he really won? How many division titles has he won? How many playoff games?

You realize he was playing in Arizona, don't you?

 

[Ghost Rider]

What has Plummer done in his career?

From 99-02, the Broncos made the playoffs once. Once. In four seasons.From 03-05, with Plummer, the Broncos have made the playoffs in all three seasons.

But what has he really won?

What has Peyton Manning really won? Or McNabb? Or Vick?

How many division titles has he won?

As many as Carson Palmer and Michael Vick.

How many playoff games?

One more than Matt Hasselbeck, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning and Drew Brees (all of whom get more recognition and credit than Plummer does) PUT TOGETHER.

 

[packersfan]

So, if Plummer fails to lead the Broncos to a win over the Patriots in the playoffs, he still has a lot to prove? If that is the benchmark, then Peyton Manning and every other QB in the league still isn't proven, right?

What has Plummer done in his career? Seriously. He's had a very good season this year; no argument. But what has he really won? How many division titles has he won? How many playoff games?

You realize he was playing in Arizona, don't you?

How many seasons has he played in Denver? How many division titles has he won and how many playoff games has he won for the Broncos?

 

[packersfan]

What has Plummer done in his career?

From 99-02, the Broncos made the playoffs once. Once. In four seasons.From 03-05, with Plummer, the Broncos have made the playoffs in all three seasons.

What's his playoff record?

But what has he really won?

What has Peyton Manning really won? Or McNabb? Or Vick?

Manning has won playoff games and MVP awards. McNabb has led his team to several conference championship games and one Super Bowl. I think Vick is the most over-rated player in the NFL without question but he at least has one conference title appearance on his resume.

How many division titles has he won?

As many as Carson Palmer and Michael Vick.

See my comment above about Vick and I would say Palmer still has alot to prove as well.

How many playoff games?

One more than Matt Hasselbeck, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning and Drew Brees (all of whom get more recognition and credit than Plummer does) PUT TOGETHER.

Please show me where in this thead I have said any of those QBs have proven more than Jake Plummer.

 

[Ghost Rider]

How many seasons has he played in Denver? How many division titles has he won and how many playoff games has he won for the Broncos?

He has won one division title in three seasons in Denver while playing in the AFC West, which is, year in and year out, one of the best divisions in football. Oh, and Plummer has NEVER played a playoff game at home, unlike Hasselbeck and Brees, who have had home playoff games and still have less playoff wins than Plummer.

 

[packersfan]

How many seasons has he played in Denver? How many division titles has he won and how many playoff games has he won for the Broncos?

He has won one division title in three seasons in Denver while playing in the AFC West, which is, year in and year out, one of the best divisions in football. Oh, and Plummer has NEVER played a playoff game at home, unlike Hasselbeck and Brees, who have had home playoff games and still have less playoff wins than Plummer.

And once again I ask where in this thread I have said either of those QBs have proven more than Plummer has.

 

[Ghost Rider]

You are completely missing the point. You earlier implied that Plummer has to prove himself by winning more playoff games and beating the Patriots in the playoffs. I simply pointed out that quarterbacks (most of whom are a lot more highly regarded than Plummer) have also failed to do with you are suggesting Plummer has to do. So, if Plummer is not proven until he does these things, then neither are the quarterbacks I mentioned. See what I mean?

 

[packersfan]

You are completely missing the point. You earlier implied that Plummer has to prove himself by winning more playoff games and beating the Patriots in the playoffs. I simply pointed out that quarterbacks (most of whom are a lot more highly regarded than Plummer) have also failed to do with you are suggesting Plummer has to do. So, if Plummer is not proven until he does these things, then neither are the quarterbacks I mentioned. See what I mean?

Of course. I'm not missing the point at all. You just keep bringing up QBs who I would contend also have a lot to prove as well with the exception of Manning, McNabb and to a lesser extent Vick.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Of course. I'm not missing the point at all. You just keep bringing up QBs who I would contend also have a lot to prove as well with the exception of Manning, McNabb

I was in total agreement until...

and to a lesser extent Vick.

Vick? How is he more proven than Plummer? First off, I am well aware of Atlanta's record with vs. without Vick over the last four seasons, but considering Atlanta had a terrible backup QB in 2003, that is not a fair argument. I would contend that if you took Plummer away from the Broncos this season, they would be lucky to be .500, especially given the difficult schedule they had the first two months of the season. But, there is more to being a proven quarterback than just wins and losses, which we have pretty much being talking about so far in this thread.

Plummer has shown consistent improvement over the last three years in Denver. Vick has made almost no improvement as a quarterback, so I say he has a lot more to prove than Plummer does. Plummer has proven that he has the tools to excel as an NFL QB if coached right. Vick has not. Plummer is a much better quarterback than he was two, three or five years ago. Can you say the same thing about Vick? I think not. Vick has had the benefit of the best running attack in the NFL the past two seasons (part of which is because of him) and he still is a below average NFL passer. Meanwhile, Plummer leads the NFL in interception percentage, which means he turns the ball over less than any other QB in the NFL based on the number of passes attempted.

 

[packersfan]

I've already said I believe Vick is BY FAR the most over-rated player in the NFL. However, he has accomplished more in the playoffs than Plummer. That really can't be disputed.In any event, we should probably end this hijack since this thread is about the Pats, not Jake Plummer.

 

[Pat Patriot]

Jake Plummer still has to prove he can win a big playoff game and doing it against a Belichick-coached defense won't be easy. 

Plummer has won a playoff game before (in '98 with the Cardinals). And isn't ANY playoff game a big game? I think so. However, I have noticed when discussing a player's ability to win a 'big game', people often seem to call a playoff game a big game is they lose it, but do not if they win it (like in Peyton Manning's case, for example).

Anyone think Brady will play as much in this game as he did last week?

Why wouldn't he? The Patriots, with a win and a Bengals' loss, can get the number 3 seed in the AFC.

EVERY playoff game is a big game but will you agree that there are degrees? Manning has won 2 home playoff games in blowout fashion (I dont even count when he was REALLY young and they lost at home to Tennessee who ended up in the SB). He has won 1 first round ROAD game against KC. Yes that is a big game. He lost on the road outdoors in blowout fashion to the Jets and twice to the Pats.Twice he had his chance against the Pats to win a game and get to the SB (I know last year was in the Division round but I feel that Indy would have beat Pitt if they had beaten the Pats).

Manning still has something to prove. Everything is set up this year. He has home field. The bye. NO ROAD GAMES. NO OUTDOOR GAMES. He either gets it done or he doesnt.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I've already said I believe Vick is BY FAR the most over-rated player in the NFL. However, he has accomplished more in the playoffs than Plummer. That really can't be disputed.

Yeah, he has won one more playoff game than Plummer has.

EVERY playoff game is a big game but will you agree that there are degrees?

Perhaps, but a playoff game is a big game, regardless of what round it is in. To use Manning again as an example, two years ago at this time, he had never won a playoff game and his critics said he could not win a big game. Then he won two playoff games and then lost to the Patriots in the AFC title game. His critics ignored the two playoff wins and continued to say he could not win a big game, which was ridiculous.

Manning has won 2 home playoff games in blowout fashion (I dont even count when he was REALLY young and they lost at home to Tennessee who ended up in the SB). He has won 1 first round ROAD game against KC. Yes that is a big game. He lost on the road outdoors in blowout fashion to the Jets and twice to the Pats.

Twice he had his chance against the Pats to win a game and get to the SB (I know last year was in the Division round but I feel that Indy would have beat Pitt if they had beaten the Pats).

Manning still has something to prove. Everything is set up this year. He has home field. The bye. NO ROAD GAMES. NO OUTDOOR GAMES. He either gets it done or he doesnt.

I don't think Manning should take the brunt of the criticism for Indy losing to the Patriots the last two seasons. New England was a better team both seasons and that is why they won both of those games. I do agree, though, that this postseason is HUGE for Manning's reputation. Indianapolis has been the best team in the league all season and have home field advantage, so everything is set up for them perfectly. If they play their game in every playoff game, I do not see them losing.

 

[brobe4]

Afc playoffs is must watch tv know matter who matches up these teams are all good football teams and anything can happen.Go Colts

 

[NEUPJ]

I think that what's being lost in this whole Denver/NE matchup is simple. The Broncos NEED to run to win the game, the Patriots don't. The Denver Pass D sucks (14th in the AFC) and the Patriots offense now healthy should be able to rip it apart. Pats now rank 4th in the AFC in run defense, they were 11th? before there front 7 got fully healthy and back into it. Sure they've faced lesser running teams since the KC game but holding teams to 40, 30, 14 yards rushing, ANY NFL team is a good sign. The Patriots will only be beat by a team that can abuse their secondary since its pretty horrid (although still better ranked than Denvers) and I don't believe Jake Plummer is the guy that can do it.

 

[PMENFAN]

Belichick is 2-6 lifetime vs DEN including 2-3 while with NE, while Shanahan is 7-3 as DEN HC vs NE. DEN is 3-1 vs Belichick's Pats during the Pats SB run the past 4 years.

I doubt that the Pats would be comfortable coming into Invesco for a playoff game.

But, over the last 4 years, NOBODY has beaten the Pats the 2nd time they've played in a season. They lost to the Rams, in Foxboro, in 2001, and beat them in the SB. They had their hats handed to them in Pittsburgh last year, and took Pitt out, easilly, in the playoffs. Also, let's qualify the Bronco games. In one game, Brady throws 3 picks in the 4th quarter, which was about his 5th game as a starter (I dare say he's improved a bit), costing his team the game. In that same game, David Patten threw one as well. One of the losses was the year the Pats went 9-7. Even going to Denver, I give the Pats no less than a pick 'em. The Broncos barely beat them with a healthy squad, and the Pats playing 3 brand new players in their secondary. As for the 'easier' road in the AFC, there really isn't one. Besides Cinci, which is no pushover, there are no 'easy' games. I see it playing out.

#1 Colts

#2 Denver

#3 NE

#4 Cinci

#5 J'ville

#6 Pitt

NE beats Pittsburgh in Foxboro, and Cinci wins. NE wins in Denver, and the Colts win 45-42 over the Bengals. NE beats the Colts 31-24 in Indi.

 

[PMENFAN]

From 99-02, the Broncos made the playoffs once. Once. In four seasons.From 03-05, with Plummer, the Broncos have made the playoffs in all three seasons.What's his playoff record?

Not only did he lose the games, he CHOKED, against that strong Colts D of recent years passed.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I'd MUCH rather the Steelers go to Cinci rather than go to NE.