Planned Parenthood leaked video (2 Viewers)

[rockaction]

I didn't see Jewish superiority in your comment, either. Just an observer. However much I help your comment out is for the rest of the people to decide.

I think you were raising a traditional lament that Christian leftists raise frequently.

 

[Henry Ford]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

If that comes out - that viable babies are being birthed alive and then murdered in violation of the law - I probably won't have a decent night's sleep until every person involved in this process is in prison. I have a very difficult time believing that's what's happening here based on any of the videos released. If that's what you believe is happening here, I certainly understand the vitriol.

 

[Fennis]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

Thats what abortion is, dude.

See its horrible, but even so id prefer it stay legal.

I can't imagine a scenario where I would think babies being ripped apart should be legal.

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

At least two people in this thread say they are babies, but want to keep abortion legal. I don't understand that argument.

 

[rockaction]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

If that comes out - that viable babies are being birthed alive and then murdered in violation of the law - I probably won't have a decent night's sleep until every person involved in this process is in prison. I have a very difficult time believing that's what's happening here based on any of the videos released. If that's what you believe is happening here, I certainly understand the vitriol.

If I know pro-life speak, that's the argument against the partial-birth procedure itself. That it has to be extracted before killed. In other words, the head comes out before the scissor.

If this sounds brutal, I am sorry. This is the stark thing we deal with when discussing aborting babies.

Though this is subject to nuance and debate that dates back to '99.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

If that comes out - that viable babies are being birthed alive and then murdered in violation of the law - I probably won't have a decent night's sleep until every person involved in this process is in prison. I have a very difficult time believing that's what's happening here based on any of the videos released. If that's what you believe is happening here, I certainly understand the vitriol.

Yeah no one wants to hear it but: Gosnell. It's happened, and basically the whole premise is that abortion clinics are inspected like other health facilities. That's a premise.

Does that mean we know that's happened elsewhere? No.

 

[rockaction]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

Thats what abortion is, dude.

See its horrible, but even so id prefer it stay legal.

I can't imagine a scenario where I would think babies being ripped apart should be legal.

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

At least two people in this thread say they are babies, but want to keep abortion legal. I don't understand that argument.

The womb is an awful place to legislate, Fennis.

 

[Henry Ford]

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

As opposed to at the moment a sperm enters an egg, despite the fact that somewhere between 40-60% of fertilized eggs don't even implant in the uterus?

 

[Henry Ford]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

If that comes out - that viable babies are being birthed alive and then murdered in violation of the law - I probably won't have a decent night's sleep until every person involved in this process is in prison. I have a very difficult time believing that's what's happening here based on any of the videos released. If that's what you believe is happening here, I certainly understand the vitriol.

If I know pro-life speak, that's the argument against the partial-birth procedure itself. That it has to be extracted before killed. In other words, the head comes out before the scissor.

If this sounds brutal, I am sorry. This is the stark thing we deal with when discussing aborting babies.

Though this is subject to nuance and debate that dates back to '99.

IDX is illegal in most cases at this point, and should be a very rare procedure as a result.

 

[Henry Ford]

Many websites seem to think that videos will emerge that show that babies are born alive, then murdered in a way that keeps the "specimen" intact. If that's what it's building to, then obviously that would be huge. But it may just all go away and the final videos may be nothing of significance.

If that comes out - that viable babies are being birthed alive and then murdered in violation of the law - I probably won't have a decent night's sleep until every person involved in this process is in prison. I have a very difficult time believing that's what's happening here based on any of the videos released. If that's what you believe is happening here, I certainly understand the vitriol.

Yeah no one wants to hear it but: Gosnell. It's happened, and basically the whole premise is that abortion clinics are inspected like other health facilities. That's a premise.

Does that mean we know that's happened elsewhere? No.

Sure, Gosnell. One guy/facility. We're talking about a belief in a nationwide decades-long conspiracy by an entire organization. There's a HUGE difference between the two.

 

[tommyboy]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

Thats what abortion is, dude.

See its horrible, but even so id prefer it stay legal.

I can't imagine a scenario where I would think babies being ripped apart should be legal.

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

At least two people in this thread say they are babies, but want to keep abortion legal. I don't understand that argument.

do you have kids?

 

[Koya]

I didn't see Jewish superiority in your comment, either. Just an observer. However much I help your comment out is for the rest of the people to decide.

I think you were raising a traditional lament that Christian leftists raise frequently.

Appreciated.

If anything, I get a lot of gruff from my uber lib family members on this subject matter because they don't quite get that many people truly believe they are saving a life on par with any of ours. How can you not respect that, even if you vehemently disagree?

Plus, what no one on the left likes to say (well, other than those WAAAAY over) is that abortion is much like prostitution. When you ask a woman would she sleep with someone for 100 million and they say, well, duh! of course. We've now determined what you are, now it's just a negotiation.

In a similar oddly analogous manner, I would feel VERY uncomfortable (to say the least) killing an 8 month fetus. However, there is NO question that in the first month we are talking a ganglia of cells, not "life" - SO, now the "negotiation" part of where on the scale is termination tantamount to killing a human being.

 

[TobiasFunke]

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

As opposed to at the moment a sperm enters an egg, despite the fact that somewhere between 40-60% of fertilized eggs don't even implant in the uterus?

And that they are still months away from having functional brains with firing neurons.

I've never understood why people insist on characterizing people who are pro-choice as all having the identical view that life is completely disposable until the moment of birth. There's a huge gray area in there. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. regarding when, and in what circumstances, we consider abortion to be an acceptable practice. If you want to have a serious discussion and maybe even change minds, it's probably not a great idea to start by mischaracterizing and antagonizing the opinions you hope to change.

 

[rockaction]

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

As opposed to at the moment a sperm enters an egg, despite the fact that somewhere between 40-60% of fertilized eggs don't even implant in the uterus?

And that they are still months away from having functional brains with firing neurons.

I've never understood why people insist on characterizing people who are pro-choice as all having the identical view that life is completely disposable until the moment of birth. There's a huge gray area in there. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. regarding when, and in what circumstances, we consider abortion to be an acceptable practice. If you want to have a serious discussion and maybe even change minds, it's probably not a great idea to start by mischaracterizing and antagonizing the opinions you hope to change.

I'd argue it's largely a Catholic thing, which -- AND I AM NOT RIPPING CATHOLICS, WHOM I LOVE -- seems to be the largest impulse, at least politically and socially, on the planet regarding this issue and its most die-hard adherents.

 

[Kal El]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

That works, the more the merrier, I say. The big problem with Christians is that we are still humans who deal with human desires, feelings and such, and so we're still selfish creatures. The important thing is that we try to emulate Christ's teachings and reflect His love for all people. A lot of people have lost sight of that.

 

[tommyboy]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

That works, the more the merrier, I say. The big problem with Christians is that we are still humans who deal with human desires, feelings and such, and so we're still selfish creatures. The important thing is that we try to emulate Christ's teachings and reflect His love for all people. A lot of people have lost sight of that.

you do realize that Ghandi never said that ####, right? http://factually.gizmodo.com/7-gandhi-quotes-that-are-totally-fake-1716503435

 

[Fennis]

its just more crony capitalism, and both sides do it, a lot. the difference i guess is they're in teh business of ripping babies apart and selling the organs and limbs. But hey, if you want a whole baby we can do that too! I need a lamborghini.

Weren't you in this thread earlier pretending you were pro choice?

I am pro choice, but im also anti PP based on their actions and see no reason why my tax dollars should subsidize them. Theyll figure out a way to get the money

Its not the funding issue, its that most people who favor abortion rights don't call abortions 'ripping babies apart', but I guess there is always an exception.

Thats what abortion is, dude.

See its horrible, but even so id prefer it stay legal.

I can't imagine a scenario where I would think babies being ripped apart should be legal.

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

At least two people in this thread say they are babies, but want to keep abortion legal. I don't understand that argument.

do you have kids?

No

 

[spreagle]

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

As opposed to at the moment a sperm enters an egg, despite the fact that somewhere between 40-60% of fertilized eggs don't even implant in the uterus?

And that they are still months away from having functional brains with firing neurons.

I've never understood why people insist on characterizing people who are pro-choice as all having the identical view that life is completely disposable until the moment of birth. There's a huge gray area in there. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. regarding when, and in what circumstances, we consider abortion to be an acceptable practice. If you want to have a serious discussion and maybe even change minds, it's probably not a great idea to start by mischaracterizing and antagonizing the opinions you hope to change.

The life of an engineering project starts the moment the idea is conceptualized. It still has a long way to go ... buying land, detailed drawings, startup testing, ect. but to pick an arbitrary point months or years down the line as the "official start of the project" is artificial and silly. There is no gray area, the project starts the moment the idea is hatched.

Likewise, life starts at the moment of conception. All the information necessary to finish the baby project is combined at that time. In that regard it is much further along than the typical engineering project. Its silly and arbitrary to pick a point months down the line then say "OK now that X just happened it's now the official start of the baby project".

 

[Koya]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

That works, the more the merrier, I say. The big problem with Christians is that we are still humans who deal with human desires, feelings and such, and so we're still selfish creatures. The important thing is that we try to emulate Christ's teachings and reflect His love for all people. A lot of people have lost sight of that.

you do realize that Ghandi never said that ####, right? http://factually.gizmodo.com/7-gandhi-quotes-that-are-totally-fake-1716503435

Does that change the meaning of the words? Ok, you win! Yay! But many Christians are still self absorbed hate filled anti-christs. At least those that spew rather than love.

Now, after the red herring, anything on topic you have to say?

 

[tommyboy]

No

ok, as a father of 4, let me tell you what happens when you and your wife go to get the first ultrasound on your unborn child with your wife. Lets say you skipped the early stage ultrasound and just decided at 4 Months you'd go have a look. You can determine sex at this stage, you and your wife go in and the doctor shows you this pic

https://senojydna.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/4-27-10_pic2.jpg

or something like it. Well immediately thereafter your wife is crying and you're choking back tears, looking at your offspring, this is your child! Its a human being in the making. Everything about it is recognizable as a human being.

now imagine that's not a baby. I can't, maybe you can.

 

[tommyboy]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

That works, the more the merrier, I say. The big problem with Christians is that we are still humans who deal with human desires, feelings and such, and so we're still selfish creatures. The important thing is that we try to emulate Christ's teachings and reflect His love for all people. A lot of people have lost sight of that.

you do realize that Ghandi never said that ####, right? http://factually.gizmodo.com/7-gandhi-quotes-that-are-totally-fake-1716503435

Does that change the meaning of the words? Ok, you win! Yay! But many Christians are still self absorbed hate filled anti-christs. At least those that spew rather than love.

Now, after the red herring, anything on topic you have to say?

yeah, you seem to be pretty angry at Christians.

 

[Henry Ford]

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

As opposed to at the moment a sperm enters an egg, despite the fact that somewhere between 40-60% of fertilized eggs don't even implant in the uterus?

And that they are still months away from having functional brains with firing neurons.

I've never understood why people insist on characterizing people who are pro-choice as all having the identical view that life is completely disposable until the moment of birth. There's a huge gray area in there. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. regarding when, and in what circumstances, we consider abortion to be an acceptable practice. If you want to have a serious discussion and maybe even change minds, it's probably not a great idea to start by mischaracterizing and antagonizing the opinions you hope to change.

The life of an engineering project starts the moment the idea is conceptualized. It still has a long way to go ... buying land, detailed drawings, startup testing, ect. but to pick an arbitrary point months or years down the line as the "official start of the project" is artificial and silly. There is no gray area, the project starts the moment the idea is hatched.

Likewise, life starts at the moment of conception. All the information necessary to finish the baby project is combined at that time. In that regard it is much further along than the typical engineering project. Its silly and arbitrary to pick a point months down the line then say "OK now that X just happened it's now the official start of the baby project".

I'd say a baby "project" is a touch different from an engineering project. For one thing, I seldom hear about engineers who tell their friends they were surprised when they took a test and realized they were suddenly in an engineering project.

When two people decide to start a "baby project" I'd say that it starts when they start trying to conceive. The baby, however, comes along at some other time.

At your engineering project example, if they're engineering a levee or a dam - when is it a levee or a dam? When the idea is conceptualized?

 

[jonessed]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

Not sure the cynical / satirical angle here.

The first paragraph talks about religions coming together to help the poor and then the second uses a quote that proclaims Jewish superiority over Christians in the matter.Even if we ignore the gross generalization, it's still a humorous contrast.

What? Where is there anything about "Jewish superiority"? Seriously, what are you reading into my comments. I was stating that while it is not MY religion, Christ's teachings resonate with me.

Second, I said nothing about "religions coming together" - I stated that regardless of one's religion, you'd hope they share those basic human beliefs.

Either you totally misread / misunderstood or are really reading into things for some reason because what you said I said is not at all the case.

If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ,

Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[TobiasFunke]

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

As opposed to at the moment a sperm enters an egg, despite the fact that somewhere between 40-60% of fertilized eggs don't even implant in the uterus?

And that they are still months away from having functional brains with firing neurons.

I've never understood why people insist on characterizing people who are pro-choice as all having the identical view that life is completely disposable until the moment of birth. There's a huge gray area in there. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. regarding when, and in what circumstances, we consider abortion to be an acceptable practice. If you want to have a serious discussion and maybe even change minds, it's probably not a great idea to start by mischaracterizing and antagonizing the opinions you hope to change.

The life of an engineering project starts the moment the idea is conceptualized. It still has a long way to go ... buying land, detailed drawings, startup testing, ect. but to pick an arbitrary point months or years down the line as the "official start of the project" is artificial and silly. There is no gray area, the project starts the moment the idea is hatched.

Likewise, life starts at the moment of conception. All the information necessary to finish the baby project is combined at that time. In that regard it is much further along than the typical engineering project. Its silly and arbitrary to pick a point months down the line then say "OK now that X just happened it's now the official start of the baby project".

I'd say a baby "project" is a touch different from an engineering project. For one thing, I seldom hear about engineers who tell their friends they were surprised when they took a test and realized they were suddenly in an engineering project.

When two people decide to start a "baby project" I'd say that it starts when they start trying to conceive. The baby, however, comes along at some other time.

At your engineering project example, if they're engineering a levee or a dam - when is it a levee or a dam? When the idea is conceptualized?

I started to write this sentiment until I saw that you had already said it better than I could.

Poor choice of analogy. If anything it hurts your argument, because as HF points out, most people would say the actual physical manifestation of the project doesn't exist until very late in the process.

 

[jonessed]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

That works, the more the merrier, I say. The big problem with Christians is that we are still humans who deal with human desires, feelings and such, and so we're still selfish creatures. The important thing is that we try to emulate Christ's teachings and reflect His love for all people. A lot of people have lost sight of that.

you do realize that Ghandi never said that ####, right? http://factually.gizmodo.com/7-gandhi-quotes-that-are-totally-fake-1716503435

Does that change the meaning of the words? Ok, you win! Yay! But many Christians are still self absorbed hate filled anti-christs. At least those that spew rather than love.

Now, after the red herring, anything on topic you have to say?

A lot of people are self-absorbed and hate-filled. Do you feel this is more predominant in Christians?

 

[Koya]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

Not sure the cynical / satirical angle here.

The first paragraph talks about religions coming together to help the poor and then the second uses a quote that proclaims Jewish superiority over Christians in the matter.Even if we ignore the gross generalization, it's still a humorous contrast.

What? Where is there anything about "Jewish superiority"? Seriously, what are you reading into my comments. I was stating that while it is not MY religion, Christ's teachings resonate with me.

Second, I said nothing about "religions coming together" - I stated that regardless of one's religion, you'd hope they share those basic human beliefs.

Either you totally misread / misunderstood or are really reading into things for some reason because what you said I said is not at all the case.

If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ,

Maybe I misunderstood.

I only meant that I have the highest regard for Christ's teachings and humanity, even as someone from a different flock.

 

[shader]

We've been through this 100 times in this thread. We know you don't think they are babies that are being killed. They are just tubs of cellular goo that will magically turn into babies somewhere around the 20 week mark. Of course some differ on their opinion of the word baby, instead using the intake of oxygen into the lungs as the magical transforming point from lifeless, insignificant fetus to baby.

As opposed to at the moment a sperm enters an egg, despite the fact that somewhere between 40-60% of fertilized eggs don't even implant in the uterus?

And that they are still months away from having functional brains with firing neurons.

I've never understood why people insist on characterizing people who are pro-choice as all having the identical view that life is completely disposable until the moment of birth. There's a huge gray area in there. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle. regarding when, and in what circumstances, we consider abortion to be an acceptable practice. If you want to have a serious discussion and maybe even change minds, it's probably not a great idea to start by mischaracterizing and antagonizing the opinions you hope to change.

The life of an engineering project starts the moment the idea is conceptualized. It still has a long way to go ... buying land, detailed drawings, startup testing, ect. but to pick an arbitrary point months or years down the line as the "official start of the project" is artificial and silly. There is no gray area, the project starts the moment the idea is hatched.

Likewise, life starts at the moment of conception. All the information necessary to finish the baby project is combined at that time. In that regard it is much further along than the typical engineering project. Its silly and arbitrary to pick a point months down the line then say "OK now that X just happened it's now the official start of the baby project".

I'd say a baby "project" is a touch different from an engineering project. For one thing, I seldom hear about engineers who tell their friends they were surprised when they took a test and realized they were suddenly in an engineering project.

When two people decide to start a "baby project" I'd say that it starts when they start trying to conceive. The baby, however, comes along at some other time.

At your engineering project example, if they're engineering a levee or a dam - when is it a levee or a dam? When the idea is conceptualized?

I started to write this sentiment until I saw that you had already said it better than I could.

Poor choice of analogy. If anything it hurts your argument, because as HF points out, most people would say the actual physical manifestation of the project doesn't exist until very late in the process.

I agree it's a very poor analogy.

 

[Koya]

Amen Brother. I'll do you one better... how bout if everyone, regardless of their position on faith and religion decide to help the poor as you state?

As Gandhi states... If only your Christians were more like your Christ. Because this Jew certainly respects the teachings of Christ, which somehow have become almost at odds with the reachings of some of todays self-created "disciples"

That works, the more the merrier, I say. The big problem with Christians is that we are still humans who deal with human desires, feelings and such, and so we're still selfish creatures. The important thing is that we try to emulate Christ's teachings and reflect His love for all people. A lot of people have lost sight of that.

you do realize that Ghandi never said that ####, right? http://factually.gizmodo.com/7-gandhi-quotes-that-are-totally-fake-1716503435

Does that change the meaning of the words? Ok, you win! Yay! But many Christians are still self absorbed hate filled anti-christs. At least those that spew rather than love.

Now, after the red herring, anything on topic you have to say?

A lot of people are self-absorbed and hate-filled. Do you feel this is more predominant in Christians?

More predominant in Christians? Not at all.

I do believe that those of a small mindset and often a cold heart are, however, drawn to more fanatical religion, regardless of the particular faith. Be it uber-zionist zealots, hard right wing christians or fanatical muslims. They are far more alike than a moderate within each of those groups as compared with the fanatic.

 

[Fennis]

No

ok, as a father of 4, let me tell you what happens when you and your wife go to get the first ultrasound on your unborn child with your wife. Lets say you skipped the early stage ultrasound and just decided at 4 Months you'd go have a look. You can determine sex at this stage, you and your wife go in and the doctor shows you this pic

https://senojydna.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/4-27-10_pic2.jpg

or something like it. Well immediately thereafter your wife is crying and you're choking back tears, looking at your offspring, this is your child! Its a human being in the making. Everything about it is recognizable as a human being.

now imagine that's not a baby. I can't, maybe you can.

I understand you feel its a baby.

I don't understand feeling its a baby, calling it murder, and still favoring abortion. That is your argument, not mine.

 

[Scoresman]

the engineering analogy was terrible here's a better one.

making a life is like making a pot of chili. The chili starts out as a bunch of ingredients and cant really be called a chili until some time after its been reducing down a while.

The beans are analogous to being christian. the chili ends up being much better without it.

 

[shader]

There's no need for a fancy analogy to describe abortion. The life of a human is discontinued, stopped, or aborted. It is what it is. The fetus is alive, there's no question of that.

We don't need fancy analogies to help us understand why smashing the skulls of infants is wrong, so we shouldn't need them to understand why smashing the skulls of those same infants, at an earlier stage, is wrong.

 

[tommyboy]

No

ok, as a father of 4, let me tell you what happens when you and your wife go to get the first ultrasound on your unborn child with your wife. Lets say you skipped the early stage ultrasound and just decided at 4 Months you'd go have a look. You can determine sex at this stage, you and your wife go in and the doctor shows you this pic

https://senojydna.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/4-27-10_pic2.jpg

or something like it. Well immediately thereafter your wife is crying and you're choking back tears, looking at your offspring, this is your child! Its a human being in the making. Everything about it is recognizable as a human being.

now imagine that's not a baby. I can't, maybe you can.

I understand you feel its a baby.

I don't understand feeling its a baby, calling it murder, and still favoring abortion. That is your argument, not mine.

I favor all drugs being legal also, not because i do them, because its the wisest legal policy.

 

[rockaction]

Sometimes legalities aren't always acceptable when one places reason above all else.

The enforcement of killing babies probably is a reflection of pre-law morality, not legalisms.

Op-ed: Once we've decided to kill babies, we're doomed regardless of our laws.

 

[TobiasFunke]

There's no need for a fancy analogy to describe abortion. The life of a human is discontinued, stopped, or aborted. It is what it is. The fetus is alive, there's no question of that.

We don't need fancy analogies to help us understand why smashing the skulls of infants is wrong, so we shouldn't need them to understand why smashing the skulls of those same infants, at an earlier stage, is wrong.

Your assumption that the life in question is human and an infant is the fundamental problem. You need to understand that other people don't view it as "human" or an "infant" until it reaches a certain developmental stage. Very few people look at a brainless, heartbeat-less, sesame seed-sized fetus at 5 weeks and see a "human" or an "infant." If you refuse to even acknowledge that and address it you will never ever change minds, because your absolutist position is viewed by most people as preposterous.

 

[Henry Ford]

There's no need for a fancy analogy to describe abortion. The life of a human is discontinued, stopped, or aborted. It is what it is. The fetus is alive, there's no question of that.

We don't need fancy analogies to help us understand why smashing the skulls of infants is wrong, so we shouldn't need them to understand why smashing the skulls of those same infants, at an earlier stage, is wrong.

Again, there's a reasonable and very nuanced debate about whether or not this is an "infant" or "an infant at an earlier stage" or what that all means. If you're saying that a fertilized egg is the same as an infant, I think we have some problems, especially since that's going to raise infant mortality rate to about 70-80% in this country. If you're saying that some time between fertilization and birth it becomes an infant, I agree. We probably disagree on the timing, but I think lots of reasonable people disagree on that.

 

[Ookie Pringle]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

More BS from you. They perform abortions and if they dont actually do it they are directly invloved in helping the woman get an abortion.

 

[timschochet]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

More BS from you. They perform abortions and if they dont actually do it they are directly invloved in helping the woman get an abortion.

The last part is true and I never suggested otherwise.

 

[shader]

There's no need for a fancy analogy to describe abortion. The life of a human is discontinued, stopped, or aborted. It is what it is. The fetus is alive, there's no question of that.

We don't need fancy analogies to help us understand why smashing the skulls of infants is wrong, so we shouldn't need them to understand why smashing the skulls of those same infants, at an earlier stage, is wrong.

Your assumption that the life in question is human and an infant is the fundamental problem. You need to understand that other people don't view it as "human" or an "infant" until it reaches a certain developmental stage. Very few people look at a brainless, heartbeat-less, sesame seed-sized fetus at 5 weeks and see a "human" or an "infant." If you refuse to even acknowledge that and address it you will never ever change minds, because your absolutist position is viewed by most people as preposterous.

Yeah I realize it's presumptuous of me to assume it's human. I mean when me and my wife had kids, we really didn't know what species to expect. But we were so happy that we did have humans.

 

[Henry Ford]

There's no need for a fancy analogy to describe abortion. The life of a human is discontinued, stopped, or aborted. It is what it is. The fetus is alive, there's no question of that.

We don't need fancy analogies to help us understand why smashing the skulls of infants is wrong, so we shouldn't need them to understand why smashing the skulls of those same infants, at an earlier stage, is wrong.

Your assumption that the life in question is human and an infant is the fundamental problem. You need to understand that other people don't view it as "human" or an "infant" until it reaches a certain developmental stage. Very few people look at a brainless, heartbeat-less, sesame seed-sized fetus at 5 weeks and see a "human" or an "infant." If you refuse to even acknowledge that and address it you will never ever change minds, because your absolutist position is viewed by most people as preposterous.

Yeah I realize it's presumptuous of me to assume it's human. I mean when me and my wife had kids, we really didn't know what species to expect. But we were so happy that we did have humans.

"Human" vs. "A Human"

 

[shader]

There's no need for a fancy analogy to describe abortion. The life of a human is discontinued, stopped, or aborted. It is what it is. The fetus is alive, there's no question of that.

We don't need fancy analogies to help us understand why smashing the skulls of infants is wrong, so we shouldn't need them to understand why smashing the skulls of those same infants, at an earlier stage, is wrong.

Your assumption that the life in question is human and an infant is the fundamental problem. You need to understand that other people don't view it as "human" or an "infant" until it reaches a certain developmental stage. Very few people look at a brainless, heartbeat-less, sesame seed-sized fetus at 5 weeks and see a "human" or an "infant." If you refuse to even acknowledge that and address it you will never ever change minds, because your absolutist position is viewed by most people as preposterous.

Yeah I realize it's presumptuous of me to assume it's human. I mean when me and my wife had kids, we really didn't know what species to expect. But we were so happy that we did have humans.

"Human" vs. "A Human"

Earlier in this thread it was admitted that they were humans, just not persons. You guys need to clean up your excuses.

The facts are that its a homo sapien in a specific stage of life. If the govt likes to establish certain rules for "personhood" then whatever.

But it's a human. Suggesting otherwise is silly.

 

[joffer]

Tub of cellular goo

 

[Henry Ford]

There's no need for a fancy analogy to describe abortion. The life of a human is discontinued, stopped, or aborted. It is what it is. The fetus is alive, there's no question of that.

We don't need fancy analogies to help us understand why smashing the skulls of infants is wrong, so we shouldn't need them to understand why smashing the skulls of those same infants, at an earlier stage, is wrong.

Your assumption that the life in question is human and an infant is the fundamental problem. You need to understand that other people don't view it as "human" or an "infant" until it reaches a certain developmental stage. Very few people look at a brainless, heartbeat-less, sesame seed-sized fetus at 5 weeks and see a "human" or an "infant." If you refuse to even acknowledge that and address it you will never ever change minds, because your absolutist position is viewed by most people as preposterous.

Yeah I realize it's presumptuous of me to assume it's human. I mean when me and my wife had kids, we really didn't know what species to expect. But we were so happy that we did have humans.

"Human" vs. "A Human"

Earlier in this thread it was admitted that they were humans, just not persons. You guys need to clean up your excuses.The facts are that its a homo sapien in a specific stage of life. If the govt likes to establish certain rules for "personhood" then whatever.

But it's a human. Suggesting otherwise is silly.

I'm the one who said it. I believe what I said was "of course it's human.". The distinction is between human and human being/person - A human

 

[Scoresman]

Tub of cellular goo

2015's Greatest Band Names from the FFA

The Unchurched Leftists

Tub of Cellular Goo

 

[rockaction]

Tub of cellular goo

2015's Greatest Band Names from the FFA

The Unchurched Leftists

Tub of Cellular Goo

Cocaine Casuals

 

[Ookie Pringle]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

More BS from you. They perform abortions and if they dont actually do it they are directly invloved in helping the woman get an abortion.

The last part is true and I never suggested otherwise.

You tried hard to suggest otherwise.

 

[RBM]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

Thought you were more civilized than this Tim.

 

[timschochet]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

Thought you were more civilized than this Tim.

Where am I wrong here?

 

[RBM]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

Thought you were more civilized than this Tim.

Where am I wrong here?

I guess there are two kinds of people in the world...those that are sickened by seeing people negotiate the sale of dead baby body parts, and those that shrug it off as if it's no big deal.

 

[joffer]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

Thought you were more civilized than this Tim.

Where am I wrong here?

I guess there are two kinds of people in the world...those that are sickened by seeing people negotiate the sale of dead baby body parts, and those that shrug it off as if it's no big deal.

there's also:1. The sensible people in this thread

2. The group that includes you

So that's at least 4 kinds

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

PP clinics were investigated? Link?

 

[BeaverCleaver]

There have been two full investigations now and they have found no wrongdoing. Planned Parenthood doesn't sell body parts. They dont even perform abortions in most states.

There has been lie after lie after lie about this.

Thought you were more civilized than this Tim.

Where am I wrong here?

Where are you wrong? Your implication they have nothing to do with abortions that happen from women that go there. Not to mention your comment about "most states".