Poll: Voter ID? (1 Viewer)

[jon_mx]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Where has it been proven? There is no federal agency which investigates or is responsible to prevent voter fraud. States do little to investigate. Unless some idiot goes on TV and brags about voting multiple times, no one ever gets caught. This is like Sgt Schultz saying he sees nothing proves that nothing is going on. Very few states or districs purge their voter rolls to get dead people or people who have moved off their lists. The fact is it is easy to cheat the system and that because of human nature and how political some people are, I can guarentee there is a boatloads more voter fraud going on than what is being prosecuted.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Where has it been proven? There is no federal agency which investigates or is responsible to prevent voter fraud. States do little to investigate. Unless some idiot goes on TV and brags about voting multiple times, no one ever gets caught. This is like Sgt Schultz saying he sees nothing proves that nothing is going on. Very few states or districs purge their voter rolls to get dead people or people who have moved off their lists. The fact is it is easy to cheat the system and that because of human nature and how political some people are, I can guarentee there is a boatloads more voter fraud going on than what is being prosecuted.

 

[Rich Conway]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

 

[jon_mx]

Dead And Still Voting

Thousands of dead Californians remain eligible to vote By Stephen Stock, Felipe Escamilla and Kevin Nious
NBC Bay Area used the Social Security Administration’s Death Master File to cross reference with the California state voter rolls using name, date of birth, and similar zip codes to find matches. We found over 25,000 questionable names still on the state voter rolls.
A closer look at the data revealed that some of the dead people were not only registered, but somehow, even voted, several years after their death. Sometimes, clerks say the mistake can purely be a clerical error, such as a misplaced signature or an outdated registration list that hadn't been purged. Other times, though, the voting turns out to be fraud, clerks say, where family members vote on their dead relatives' behalf.


Our findings came as no surprise to Bill Morrison of Palo Alto. For Morrison, every trip to the mailbox during election season brings constant reminders of his late wife, Carol Morrison, who died in 2004 after battling cancer.

Morrison continues to receive election materials including voter guides, pamphlets, and even ballots for his late wife.

“It angers me and it hurts because she’s dead,” Morrison said.

According to state records, Carol has voted in the last two presidential elections, despite having passed away.

Morrison has made several attempts to notify the county that his wife died, including sending back her ballots with “DECEASED” marked on the envelope.

“I don’t know why, when somebody dies. It doesn’t go to the elections and they just cross the name off of the list,” Morrison said.

NBC Bay Area found several other examples, too. People like Sara Schiffman of San Leandro who died in 2007 yet still voted in 2008, or former Hayward police officer Frank Canela Tapia who has voted 8 times since 2005, though he died in 2001.

County election officials are responsible for removing names from the voter rolls.

NBC Bay Area gave Contra Costa County Clerk and Recorder Steve Weir a list of more than 100 voters in his county who may have passed away. Around half a dozen of these voters have recorded votes since their death.

“This is embarrassing,” Weir said. “This is something we should have caught.”

After reviewing our list, Weir was able to confirm that he had the death certificate in his office for at least four of these voters, yet the names still weren’t removed.

Weir attributes most of the posthumous votes to mistaken signatures and clerical errors. However, in at least one other case NBC Bay Area uncovered, Weir suspects something else could be afoot. Though he wouldn't be specific, he referred one of the cases to the district attorney for a potential fraud investigation.

Barry Garner serves as the registrar of Voters in Santa Clara County where NBC Bay Area found the names of 83 people who are dead and still have active voter registration files.

“If we have found someone who has signed someone’s name fraudulently we will turn it over to the D.A.” Garner said.

Some of the matches between the two databases appear to be a coincidence. For example, two people who were born on the exact same day, with the exact same name living in the exact same state.

While many of the names we found should have been removed from the rolls, it is important to note that 25,000 people makes make up less than 0.2 percent of the entire state electorate.

Still, Garner believes that one questionable vote is one too many.

“Too many people have sacrificed and died for the opportunity to vote in this country,” Garner said.

The lag between when a person dies and when they are removed them from the voter rolls extends beyond California.

A recent study by the Pew Center on the States found 1.8 million dead people still on the active rolls nationwide.

“I don’t think the issue is how this is possible. It’s actually hard to imagine this not occurring given the fractured data that we have throughout this country,” said David Becker with Pew Center on the States. “This isn’t a Democrat problem this isn’t a Republican problem. This is a problem for our system. It’s a problem that affects everyone. We need to make sure that the information is accurate.”

All of the Bay Area election officials we spoke with confirmed finding names on their rolls that should have been removed before we contacted them and say they will do a thorough investigation of every name we send them after Tuesday’s election and have flagged the ballots for voters that they have been able to confirm are dead before Election Day.

County officials stressed that they count on the public to help keep their voter rolls up to date. They request that anyone who knows of a person that has died, notify your local county election office so that their name can be removed.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I guess Nelson Mandela was also in favor of voter suppression:http://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/nelson-mandela-voter-id-getty-images-e1386713746246.jpg

 

[Todd Andrews]

A lot of voter suppressing KooKs didnt read that opinion.

 

[greenroom]

Dead And Still Voting

Thousands of dead Californians remain eligible to vote By Stephen Stock, Felipe Escamilla and Kevin Nious
NBC Bay Area used the Social Security Administration’s Death Master File to cross reference with the California state voter rolls using name, date of birth, and similar zip codes to find matches. We found over 25,000 questionable names still on the state voter rolls.
A closer look at the data revealed that some of the dead people were not only registered, but somehow, even voted, several years after their death. Sometimes, clerks say the mistake can purely be a clerical error, such as a misplaced signature or an outdated registration list that hadn't been purged. Other times, though, the voting turns out to be fraud, clerks say, where family members vote on their dead relatives' behalf.


Our findings came as no surprise to Bill Morrison of Palo Alto. For Morrison, every trip to the mailbox during election season brings constant reminders of his late wife, Carol Morrison, who died in 2004 after battling cancer.

Morrison continues to receive election materials including voter guides, pamphlets, and even ballots for his late wife.

“It angers me and it hurts because she’s dead,” Morrison said.

According to state records, Carol has voted in the last two presidential elections, despite having passed away.

Morrison has made several attempts to notify the county that his wife died, including sending back her ballots with “DECEASED” marked on the envelope.

“I don’t know why, when somebody dies. It doesn’t go to the elections and they just cross the name off of the list,” Morrison said.

NBC Bay Area found several other examples, too. People like Sara Schiffman of San Leandro who died in 2007 yet still voted in 2008, or former Hayward police officer Frank Canela Tapia who has voted 8 times since 2005, though he died in 2001.

County election officials are responsible for removing names from the voter rolls.

NBC Bay Area gave Contra Costa County Clerk and Recorder Steve Weir a list of more than 100 voters in his county who may have passed away. Around half a dozen of these voters have recorded votes since their death.

“This is embarrassing,” Weir said. “This is something we should have caught.”

After reviewing our list, Weir was able to confirm that he had the death certificate in his office for at least four of these voters, yet the names still weren’t removed.

Weir attributes most of the posthumous votes to mistaken signatures and clerical errors. However, in at least one other case NBC Bay Area uncovered, Weir suspects something else could be afoot. Though he wouldn't be specific, he referred one of the cases to the district attorney for a potential fraud investigation.

Barry Garner serves as the registrar of Voters in Santa Clara County where NBC Bay Area found the names of 83 people who are dead and still have active voter registration files.

“If we have found someone who has signed someone’s name fraudulently we will turn it over to the D.A.” Garner said.

Some of the matches between the two databases appear to be a coincidence. For example, two people who were born on the exact same day, with the exact same name living in the exact same state.

While many of the names we found should have been removed from the rolls, it is important to note that 25,000 people makes make up less than 0.2 percent of the entire state electorate.

Still, Garner believes that one questionable vote is one too many.

“Too many people have sacrificed and died for the opportunity to vote in this country,” Garner said.

The lag between when a person dies and when they are removed them from the voter rolls extends beyond California.

A recent study by the Pew Center on the States found 1.8 million dead people still on the active rolls nationwide.

“I don’t think the issue is how this is possible. It’s actually hard to imagine this not occurring given the fractured data that we have throughout this country,” said David Becker with Pew Center on the States. “This isn’t a Democrat problem this isn’t a Republican problem. This is a problem for our system. It’s a problem that affects everyone. We need to make sure that the information is accurate.”

All of the Bay Area election officials we spoke with confirmed finding names on their rolls that should have been removed before we contacted them and say they will do a thorough investigation of every name we send them after Tuesday’s election and have flagged the ballots for voters that they have been able to confirm are dead before Election Day.

County officials stressed that they count on the public to help keep their voter rolls up to date. They request that anyone who knows of a person that has died, notify your local county election office so that their name can be removed.

And how does voter ID stop that? Since I have a feeling that most of these are voter by mail ballots. And as you stated you show ID once when you vote the first time, then you do not have to again?



Voter ID will not stop voter fraud. It may slow it down, but it is not going to do what Republicans think it will do. But I also don’t think it will discourage people to vote, if you’re not motivated to get an ID then your probably not going to be motivated to vote.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Wow!

Page 24 of Posner's opinion. Even the "perception of a fairer elections" benefits claimed as reason enough are totally non existent with voter id laws.

 

[jon_mx]

Wow!

Page 24 of Posner's opinion. Even the "perception of a fairer elections" benefits claimed as reason enough are totally non existent with voter id laws.

Posner has admitted he is no longer a conservative many years ago, which is why liberals love to quote him and pretent he still is. Posner engages in ridiculous hyperboles such as comparing voter fraud to hunting for witches. Not really that impressive of an arguement.

 

[jon_mx]

And how does voter ID stop that? Since I have a feeling that most of these are voter by mail ballots. And as you stated you show ID once when you vote the first time, then you do not have to again?


Voter ID will not stop voter fraud. It may slow it down, but it is not going to do what Republicans think it will do. But I also don’t think it will discourage people to vote, if you’re not motivated to get an ID then your probably not going to be motivated to vote.

I am not sure where you get voters only show ID the first time. Mail in votes are a potential problem, which is why a copy of an ID should be included with the ballot. The current system is inheriently flawed because there is no check in the system to catch voter fraud, thus there are very few voter fraud cases. Any person can come in, claim to be so and so, put down some phony signature, and vote. How do you catch them after the fact? You can't. It is virtually impossible which is why cases are so rare.

 

[pantagrapher]

Wow!

Page 24 of Posner's opinion. Even the "perception of a fairer elections" benefits claimed as reason enough are totally non existent with voter id laws.

Posner has admitted he is no longer a conservative many years ago, which is why liberals love to quote him and pretent he still is. Posner engages in ridiculous hyperboles such as comparing voter fraud to hunting for witches. Not really that impressive of an arguement.

Yeah, I mean if you uphold voter ID in 2007 and then look deeper into the issue over the course of a few years and conclude voter ID is a GOP scam to cull democratic voters, you are definitely not a conservative.

 

[pantagrapher]

My favorite Posner observation is his most trenchant: "There is only one motivation for imposing burdens on voting that are ostensibly designed to discourage voter-impersonation fraud, if there is no actual danger of such fraud, and that is to discourage voting by persons likely to vote against the party responsible for imposing the burdens."

 

[pantagrapher]

True conservatives stand firm in the face of overwhelming evidence.

 

[jon_mx]

My favorite Posner observation is his most trenchant: "There is only one motivation for imposing burdens on voting that are ostensibly designed to discourage voter-impersonation fraud, if there is no actual danger of such fraud, and that is to discourage voting by persons likely to vote against the party responsible for imposing the burdens."

There are nearly 2 million dead people nationwide still on the voter rolls and a quick investigation by a news organization found several dead people who voted, including one who voted 8 times after his death. There is potential danger, so Posner's premise is demonstratably false. It is just not being investigated and under a system with no ID checks, there is no way to track or catch the fraudulant voters. Even if it was investigated, how do you find the person resposnsible? The only way would be to conduct a sting during a vote where you target known 'dead people' who have recently cast votes. But then there would be federal charges of voter intimidation, so even that is a catch-22.

 

[greenroom]

Jon_mx, if they have an active ID they would still be able to vote by mail. Even if you make a copy. I understand your point of hey let's try to cut back the fraud.

But if they are dead, then that is more of a systematic problem of where the databases need to talk with each other, more than showing ID. I know when my father passed away his DL was still good for 3-4 years before it had to be renewed. And that is the problem for me, is that the Republicans act like hey show ID and it's just going to make the fraud go away. Guess what it will not.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Jon_mx, if they have an active ID they would still be able to vote by mail. Even if you make a copy. I understand your point of hey let's try to cut back the fraud.

But if they are dead, then that is more of a systematic problem of where the databases need to talk with each other, more than showing ID. I know when my father passed away his DL was still good for 3-4 years before it had to be renewed. And that is the problem for me, is that the Republicans act like hey show ID and it's just going to make the fraud go away. Guess what it will not.

How could somebody show up and vote as your father if ID requirements were in place?

 

[pantagrapher]

My favorite Posner observation is his most trenchant: "There is only one motivation for imposing burdens on voting that are ostensibly designed to discourage voter-impersonation fraud, if there is no actual danger of such fraud, and that is to discourage voting by persons likely to vote against the party responsible for imposing the burdens."

There are nearly 2 million dead people nationwide still on the voter rolls and a quick investigation by a news organization found several dead people who voted, including one who voted 8 times after his death. There is potential danger, so Posner's premise is demonstratably false. It is just not being investigated and under a system with no ID checks, there is no way to track or catch the fraudulant voters. Even if it was investigated, how do you find the person resposnsible? The only way would be to conduct a sting during a vote where you target known 'dead people' who have recently cast votes. But then there would be federal charges of voter intimidation, so even that is a catch-22.

Several dead people nationwide who voted, according to a quick newspaper investigation. BOOM.

 

[Yenrub]

Jon_mx, if they have an active ID they would still be able to vote by mail. Even if you make a copy. I understand your point of hey let's try to cut back the fraud.

But if they are dead, then that is more of a systematic problem of where the databases need to talk with each other, more than showing ID. I know when my father passed away his DL was still good for 3-4 years before it had to be renewed. And that is the problem for me, is that the Republicans act like hey show ID and it's just going to make the fraud go away. Guess what it will not.

How could somebody show up and vote as your father if ID requirements were in place?

Well if it’s a mail in vote it’s pretty easy to get away with

In person it would be a little more difficult but if someone really wanted to get away with it they could by either finding someone that looks like his father to vote or simply change the photo on the license

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Jon_mx, if they have an active ID they would still be able to vote by mail. Even if you make a copy. I understand your point of hey let's try to cut back the fraud.

But if they are dead, then that is more of a systematic problem of where the databases need to talk with each other, more than showing ID. I know when my father passed away his DL was still good for 3-4 years before it had to be renewed. And that is the problem for me, is that the Republicans act like hey show ID and it's just going to make the fraud go away. Guess what it will not.

How could somebody show up and vote as your father if ID requirements were in place?

Well if it’s a mail in vote it’s pretty easy to get away with

In person it would be a little more difficult but if someone really wanted to get away with it they could by either finding someone that looks like his father to vote or simply change the photo on the license

So yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing that ID requirements would help out with.

 

[jon_mx]

My favorite Posner observation is his most trenchant: "There is only one motivation for imposing burdens on voting that are ostensibly designed to discourage voter-impersonation fraud, if there is no actual danger of such fraud, and that is to discourage voting by persons likely to vote against the party responsible for imposing the burdens."

There are nearly 2 million dead people nationwide still on the voter rolls and a quick investigation by a news organization found several dead people who voted, including one who voted 8 times after his death. There is potential danger, so Posner's premise is demonstratably false. It is just not being investigated and under a system with no ID checks, there is no way to track or catch the fraudulant voters. Even if it was investigated, how do you find the person resposnsible? The only way would be to conduct a sting during a vote where you target known 'dead people' who have recently cast votes. But then there would be federal charges of voter intimidation, so even that is a catch-22.

Several dead people nationwide who voted, according to a quick newspaper investigation. BOOM.

It is amazing what you can find if there was actually someone investigating it. And that is the rub, the government does not. They 'study' the issue and surprise surprise, they find very few cases where there are charges. Well duh, because it is no one's priority to investigate and bring charges.

 

[meatwad1]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Umm...yeah...voter fraud does happen, it is almost never investigated. I wonder why? <_<

Why is it a burden to show id? ID is required for pretty much everything nowadays. I have to use my ID almost every day, I feel this is a small price to pay to ensure that people voting are who they say they are.

 

[meatwad1]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Serious question; are they too stupid to find a way to obtain an ID? It is free to get one of these. Also, do not say they have no means to get there. Public transportation takes people to the DMV and most people who are infirm have family members or friends that will cart them around with reasonable notice given.

 

[greenroom]

Jon_mx, if they have an active ID they would still be able to vote by mail. Even if you make a copy. I understand your point of hey let's try to cut back the fraud.

But if they are dead, then that is more of a systematic problem of where the databases need to talk with each other, more than showing ID. I know when my father passed away his DL was still good for 3-4 years before it had to be renewed. And that is the problem for me, is that the Republicans act like hey show ID and it's just going to make the fraud go away. Guess what it will not.

How could somebody show up and vote as your father if ID requirements were in place?

Mail in vote? Which I think is the common way for these votes to count

 

[greenroom]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Umm...yeah...voter fraud does happen, it is almost never investigated. I wonder why? <_<

Why is it a burden to show id? ID is required for pretty much everything nowadays. I have to use my ID almost every day, I feel this is a small price to pay to ensure that people voting are who they say they are.

Could it be that there is not enough voter fraud to investigate for the cost that is involved?

Look I am for voter ID and use my ID every time I vote. It’s just easier for me. But can we stop with the premise that ID is going to stop fraud, which it will not do.

 

[Yenrub]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Umm...yeah...voter fraud does happen, it is almost never investigated. I wonder why? <_<

Why is it a burden to show id? ID is required for pretty much everything nowadays. I have to use my ID almost every day, I feel this is a small price to pay to ensure that people voting are who they say they are.

Just curious what do you have to use your ID for almost everyday for? Outside of my work badge I almost never use an ID for anything

 

[Godsbrother]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

I agree. Try cashing a check at a bank or boarding a plane without ID. Hell in groceries stores in PA they make you show an ID to buy a bottle of beer.

 

[meatwad1]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Umm...yeah...voter fraud does happen, it is almost never investigated. I wonder why? <_<

Why is it a burden to show id? ID is required for pretty much everything nowadays. I have to use my ID almost every day, I feel this is a small price to pay to ensure that people voting are who they say they are.

Could it be that there is not enough voter fraud to investigate for the cost that is involved?

Look I am for voter ID and use my ID every time I vote. It’s just easier for me. But can we stop with the premise that ID is going to stop fraud, which it will not do.

It will make it a lot more difficult to pull off. Sort of like how a condom stops pregnancy or syphilis most of the time.

 

[pantagrapher]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

I agree. Try cashing a check at a bank or boarding a plane without ID. Hell in groceries stores in PA they make you show an ID to buy a bottle of beer.

I can deposit a check at an ATM. I can sign an affidavit to board a plane. I never get carded for beer anymore.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Jon_mx, if they have an active ID they would still be able to vote by mail. Even if you make a copy. I understand your point of hey let's try to cut back the fraud.

But if they are dead, then that is more of a systematic problem of where the databases need to talk with each other, more than showing ID. I know when my father passed away his DL was still good for 3-4 years before it had to be renewed. And that is the problem for me, is that the Republicans act like hey show ID and it's just going to make the fraud go away. Guess what it will not.

How could somebody show up and vote as your father if ID requirements were in place?

Mail in vote? Which I think is the common way for these votes to count

What about in person (see the bolded)? An ID requirement would almost certainly make it a lot more difficult for somebody to vote as a dead person by showing up at the polls.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Jon_mx, if they have an active ID they would still be able to vote by mail. Even if you make a copy. I understand your point of hey let's try to cut back the fraud.

But if they are dead, then that is more of a systematic problem of where the databases need to talk with each other, more than showing ID. I know when my father passed away his DL was still good for 3-4 years before it had to be renewed. And that is the problem for me, is that the Republicans act like hey show ID and it's just going to make the fraud go away. Guess what it will not.

How could somebody show up and vote as your father if ID requirements were in place?

Well if it’s a mail in vote it’s pretty easy to get away with

In person it would be a little more difficult but if someone really wanted to get away with it they could by either finding someone that looks like his father to vote or simply change the photo on the license

So yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing that ID requirements would help out with.

All those instances where folks are running around looking for look-a-likes for their fathers in order to cast 1 fraudulent vote?

 

[meatwad1]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Umm...yeah...voter fraud does happen, it is almost never investigated. I wonder why? <_<

Why is it a burden to show id? ID is required for pretty much everything nowadays. I have to use my ID almost every day, I feel this is a small price to pay to ensure that people voting are who they say they are.

Just curious what do you have to use your ID for almost everyday for? Outside of my work badge I almost never use an ID for anything

Any time I buy beer I show my ID. Any time I use my credit card, I show my ID. When I travel, I must show ID. If a cop pulls me over, I need to show ID, otherwise the cop will bring me in. At work, I need to use a photo ID. Any time I conduct business at the bank, an ID must be shown. If I want to apply for credit, I need ID. I could go on.....

 

[timschochet]

Is there a documented and proven case in which voter fraud changed the outcome of an election in this country?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

The bold is where you lose me Rich. How is "the system" better if the results of voter ID are hundreds of thousands of otherwise eligible voters not being able to vote, in order to prevent maybe 10 fraudulent votes every two years?

 

[meatwad1]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

I agree. Try cashing a check at a bank or boarding a plane without ID. Hell in groceries stores in PA they make you show an ID to buy a bottle of beer.

I can deposit a check at an ATM. I can sign an affidavit to board a plane. I never get carded for beer anymore.

How did you open the account in the first place?

How long will it take you to just 'sign the affidavit'? My guess is that you will be missing that flight.

Getting carded for beer depends on where you go...a small place is not too strict, big box chains card everyone as a matter of course.

 

[Mister Martie]

Any time I use my credit card, I show my ID.

 

[jon_mx]

Is there a documented and proven case in which voter fraud changed the outcome of an election in this country?

A lot of people documented and provided proof of that in Florida in 2000....oh wait, that is when Democrats used to be concern with voter fraud and were intentionally disinfranching specific class of voters, mainly those in the military.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Jon_mx, if they have an active ID they would still be able to vote by mail. Even if you make a copy. I understand your point of hey let's try to cut back the fraud.

But if they are dead, then that is more of a systematic problem of where the databases need to talk with each other, more than showing ID. I know when my father passed away his DL was still good for 3-4 years before it had to be renewed. And that is the problem for me, is that the Republicans act like hey show ID and it's just going to make the fraud go away. Guess what it will not.

How could somebody show up and vote as your father if ID requirements were in place?

Well if it’s a mail in vote it’s pretty easy to get away with

In person it would be a little more difficult but if someone really wanted to get away with it they could by either finding someone that looks like his father to vote or simply change the photo on the license

So yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing that ID requirements would help out with.

All those instances where folks are running around looking for look-a-likes for their fathers in order to cast 1 fraudulent vote?

Why would you need a look-alike?

 

[Yenrub]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

Umm...yeah...voter fraud does happen, it is almost never investigated. I wonder why? <_<

Why is it a burden to show id? ID is required for pretty much everything nowadays. I have to use my ID almost every day, I feel this is a small price to pay to ensure that people voting are who they say they are.

Just curious what do you have to use your ID for almost everyday for? Outside of my work badge I almost never use an ID for anything

Any time I buy beer I show my ID. Any time I use my credit card, I show my ID. When I travel, I must show ID. If a cop pulls me over, I need to show ID, otherwise the cop will bring me in. At work, I need to use a photo ID. Any time I conduct business at the bank, an ID must be shown. If I want to apply for credit, I need ID. I could go on.....

I don’t disagree that you would need an ID to do all those thing you list

I guess I just don’t do any of that stuff every day or anything close to every day except go to work

My work ID probably wouldn’t be accepted as a proper ID anyplace outside of my place of work

 

[StrikeS2k]

Is there a documented and proven case in which voter fraud changed the outcome of an election in this country?

I posted one in this very thread, and it happened in your back yard. I'm not surprised you're clueless about it.

 

[pantagrapher]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

I agree. Try cashing a check at a bank or boarding a plane without ID. Hell in groceries stores in PA they make you show an ID to buy a bottle of beer.

I can deposit a check at an ATM. I can sign an affidavit to board a plane. I never get carded for beer anymore.

How did you open the account in the first place?

How long will it take you to just 'sign the affidavit'? My guess is that you will be missing that flight.

Getting carded for beer depends on where you go...a small place is not too strict, big box chains card everyone as a matter of course.

My bank does not require that I maintain a valid ID. The only reason I even know about the affidavit thing is because a friend of mine was in town from Dallas and lost hers. She made her flight.

This is stupid. "I need ID for things I do, therefore everyone should have a valid ID before we allow them to vote."

 

[meatwad1]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

The bold is where you lose me Rich. How is "the system" better if the results of voter ID are hundreds of thousands of otherwise eligible voters not being able to vote, in order to prevent maybe 10 fraudulent votes every two years?

10 fraudulent votes?

Up here in Wisconsin, there are buses with Illinois plates that come and drop people off at City Hall in Milwaukee. I am thinking that many of those votes in just that one instance is probably a couple hundred.

 

[Pop Tart]

Serious question... since its been demonstrated that very little voter fraud has actually happened and almost none proven to have occurred, what is your true, base rationale to deprive folks who have literally voted for generations, from exercising that right?

So these people that are so called deprived from voting can't do any of this either?

 

[pantagrapher]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

The bold is where you lose me Rich. How is "the system" better if the results of voter ID are hundreds of thousands of otherwise eligible voters not being able to vote, in order to prevent maybe 10 fraudulent votes every two years?

10 fraudulent votes?

Up here in Wisconsin, there are buses with Illinois plates that come and drop people off at City Hall in Milwaukee. I am thinking that many of those votes in just that one instance is probably a couple hundred.

Oh #### you know about our Massive Fraud Bus? I told them we should have changed those plates!

 

[Pop Tart]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

I agree. Try cashing a check at a bank or boarding a plane without ID. Hell in groceries stores in PA they make you show an ID to buy a bottle of beer.

I can deposit a check at an ATM. I can sign an affidavit to board a plane. I never get carded for beer anymore.

How do you open a bank acct?

 

[pantagrapher]

It was my idea to pass out the cheeseheads though. That's probably what kept polling place observers from getting suspicious.

 

[pantagrapher]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

I agree. Try cashing a check at a bank or boarding a plane without ID. Hell in groceries stores in PA they make you show an ID to buy a bottle of beer.

I can deposit a check at an ATM. I can sign an affidavit to board a plane. I never get carded for beer anymore.

How do you open a bank acct?

I can't remember. But there's no way the ID I used back then is still valid.

 

[Godsbrother]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

I agree. Try cashing a check at a bank or boarding a plane without ID. Hell in groceries stores in PA they make you show an ID to buy a bottle of beer.

I can deposit a check at an ATM. I can sign an affidavit to board a plane. I never get carded for beer anymore.

How did you open the account in the first place?

How long will it take you to just 'sign the affidavit'? My guess is that you will be missing that flight.

Getting carded for beer depends on where you go...a small place is not too strict, big box chains card everyone as a matter of course.

Good posting.

In order to open a bank account you need ID and technically any time you use an ATM you are getting ID'ed when you insert your debit card.

The grocery stores in PA that are able to sell beer require you to show an ID regardless of your age. No ID, no beer.

Getting an ID is not a hard thing to do and it just makes sense that there should be some kind of check that the person going in to vote is who they say they are.

 

[Yenrub]

Is an ID required to buy a gun?

I own a couple of guns but they were given me to several years ago

Was I supposed to register them when I got them?

 

[Jim11]

Absentee voting is mostly white and mostly conservative. Why would Republicans target that?

I'd have no problem if we decided to eliminate all absentee ballots, excepting the military, of course.

You know Rich, ideally I would love it if less people voted, and if those who voted were educated on all the issues. But suppressing minority voters is wrong. And it's being pushed only as a means to help the GOP, and most people see right through it.

Some GOP politicians are pushing these policies as a means of suppressing votes they don't like. But just because their motives are impure doesn't necessarily make the policies they advocate also wrong. Sometimes politicians accidentally push the right things even for the wrong reasons.I advocate voter ID because I think it would make the system itself better, and because I really don't believe that acquiring one is a burden that measures as even "trivial", much less "significant".

I agree. Try cashing a check at a bank or boarding a plane without ID. Hell in groceries stores in PA they make you show an ID to buy a bottle of beer.

I can deposit a check at an ATM. I can sign an affidavit to board a plane. I never get carded for beer anymore.

How did you open the account in the first place?

How long will it take you to just 'sign the affidavit'? My guess is that you will be missing that flight.

Getting carded for beer depends on where you go...a small place is not too strict, big box chains card everyone as a matter of course.

Good posting.

In order to open a bank account you need ID and technically any time you use an ATM you are getting ID'ed when you insert your debit card.

The grocery stores in PA that are able to sell beer require you to show an ID regardless of your age. No ID, no beer.

Getting an ID is not a hard thing to do and it just makes sense that there should be some kind of check that the person going in to vote is who they say they are.

It's not hard to do at all. but the Dems don't want it. Why? Suppress the vote they say...yeah, suppress illegal votes.

 

[Rich Conway]

Is there a documented and proven case in which voter fraud changed the outcome of an election in this country?

There are plenty of documented cases where the outcome of an election was tied or won by a single vote.