Proper Punishment Here? (1 Viewer)

[Peak]

Expulsion is obvious, but I'm also in the charge him as an adult and send him off for at least 5 years mindset - make sure any kid that sees it knows what happens when you pull this kinda ####. 

Haven't read through the thread...but my wife works at a school for kids with behavioral issues.  These are kids that can't make it in public schools, so they are sent to her school to continue education.  If a kid goes so far as to touch a teacher, aide, administrator, guest, or anyone else on the school property, they are arrested on the spot for assault.  With that said, these teachers are trained on how to restrain a violent person, and there are police regularly assigned to the buildings throughout the school day.  They don't tolerate that kind of behavior and it seems to work as the kids know enough to keep their hands to themselves.  If not, they know they will be leaving the school grounds in handcuffs in the back of a cruiser.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Haven't read through the thread...but my wife works at a school for kids with behavioral issues.  These are kids that can't make it in public schools, so they are sent to her school to continue education.  If a kid goes so far as to touch a teacher, aide, administrator, guest, or anyone else on the school property, they are arrested on the spot for assault.  With that said, these teachers are trained on how to restrain a violent person, and there are police regularly assigned to the buildings throughout the school day.  They don't tolerate that kind of behavior and it seems to work as the kids know enough to keep their hands to themselves.  If not, they know they will be leaving the school grounds in handcuffs in the back of a cruiser.

There are some posters in this very thread that think it would be proper to send this same student who beat the daylights out of that teacher back into his class - I'm sure your wife would be comfortable in that situation.

 

[irish eyes]

This kid apparently has never had consequences for his actions. I witnessed few weeks back in Dr office,  a brat girl continuously ignore her mom to sit down & be quiet. What was her last alternative.....she said please nicely to the girl like she was asking her for a favor!! I now know why most kids suck these days

 

[Hov34]

That wasn't a "fight"

Fight - "take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons" - Seems to fit the definition to me.  Now, it was one sided but there was definitely a violent struggle and exchange of physical blows.  

Come on dude, you're better than this, aren't you?

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I wish a motherflunker would.

 

[Hov34]

That wasn't a "fight"

Fight - "take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons" - Seems to fit the definition to me.  Now, it was one sided but there was definitely a violent struggle and exchange of physical blows.  

Come on dude, you're better than this, aren't you?

 

[Gawain]

3-5 is about right for me.

 

[Peak]

There are some posters in this very thread that think it would be proper to send this same student who beat the daylights out of that teacher back into his class - I'm sure your wife would be comfortable in that situation.

She wouldn't stand for it either.  The kid that would assault a teacher would not only leave in cuffs and a cruiser, but would also be removed from the school.  There aren't many places like this that would take in a kid with these types of issues, but the school system does fight for them to stay because it's their last resort.  I'm sure kids can be isolated from others and have to show they are working towards resolving their "issues" until they are allowed back into the general population.  

The teachers don't want to see these kids hauled off like this, and they try their best to keep an incident from escalating to this point.  A student may approach a teacher with the intent to assault, but the teacher is trained in what cues to look for, certain phrases to try to disarm the situation, and then finally how to restrain the kid from doing any more harm to himself or others.  Teachers also have aides in their classroom with the same training, as well as administrators who consistently check on things.  While they have a classroom full of the "worst of the worst" from a public school perspective, they are trained to do what's best for the kid and try to help them as much as possible before it escalates to cuffs and crusiers.

 

[BassNBrew]

She wouldn't stand for it either.  The kid that would assault a teacher would not only leave in cuffs and a cruiser, but would also be removed from the school.  There aren't many places like this that would take in a kid with these types of issues, but the school system does fight for them to stay because it's their last resort.  I'm sure kids can be isolated from others and have to show they are working towards resolving their "issues" until they are allowed back into the general population.  

The teachers don't want to see these kids hauled off like this, and they try their best to keep an incident from escalating to this point.  A student may approach a teacher with the intent to assault, but the teacher is trained in what cues to look for, certain phrases to try to disarm the situation, and then finally how to restrain the kid from doing any more harm to himself or others.  Teachers also have aides in their classroom with the same training, as well as administrators who consistently check on things.  While they have a classroom full of the "worst of the worst" from a public school perspective, they are trained to do what's best for the kid and try to help them as much as possible before it escalates to cuffs and crusiers.

If Curse had his way, your wife would be unemployed.

 

[Ned]

I give up on a kid when they violently attack a teacher at the age of 16, sorry.




 

This is on him.

He goes to jail, gets his GED, maybe even an AA or Bachelor's Degree while incarcerated. Gets out, gets a ####ty job, works his way up the ladder, and in 10-15 years he is doing just fine. 

Your actions have consequences, period!

Why is that so impossible?




 

Of course it's on him.  He made a terrible choice and should pay for it.  Again, what he did was disgusting and should be punished (I wouldn't be opposed to a 6-9mos in jail type sentence with counseling before/during/after jail), but to toss him in the clink for 3-5 years is outrageous IMO.  2 hours ago you were giving up on the kid, but now he's getting his GED, AA, and/or a Bachelor's degree.  Which do you want or are you arguing just to argue?

The bold in your most recent post is exactly my point.  You want to wrap the "3-5" as if it was a black and white sentence, but it's not; the bold is his real sentence.  And that's where I take exception to our current process for stuff like this.  These criminals get set back so far behind society that they stand almost no chance of becoming a real citizen again, so they just fall back to old habits (more times than not).  

There are always exceptions to the rule like your second post I quoted - my wife's cousin did a long stint in jail for attempted murder when he was young.  He managed to turn his life around and is a pretty awesome guy now, but he's told me so many stories from the other side that is really depressing to hear (tons of guys end up right back in jail).  You may be getting out of jail when your sentence is over, but you're still "in jail" in a sense once you get out.  The effort to recuperate these guys is poor in this country.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Of course it's on him.  He made a terrible choice and should pay for it.  Again, what he did was disgusting and should be punished (I wouldn't be opposed to a 6-9mos in jail type sentence with counseling before/during/after jail), but to toss him in the clink for 3-5 years is outrageous IMO.  2 hours ago you were giving up on the kid, but now he's getting his GED, AA, and/or a Bachelor's degree.  Which do you want or are you arguing just to argue?

The bold in your most recent post is exactly my point.  You want to wrap the "3-5" as if it was a black and white sentence, but it's not; the bold is his real sentence.  And that's where I take exception to our current process for stuff like this.  These criminals get set back so far behind society that they stand almost no chance of becoming a real citizen again, so they just fall back to old habits (more times than not).  

There are always exceptions to the rule like your second post I quoted - my wife's cousin did a long stint in jail for attempted murder when he was young.  He managed to turn his life around and is a pretty awesome guy now, but he's told me so many stories from the other side that is really depressing to hear (tons of guys end up right back in jail).  You may be getting out of jail when your sentence is over, but you're still "in jail" in a sense once you get out.  The effort to recuperate these guys is poor in this country.

I sure as #### have given up on anyone with that little control of violence and such awful judgement at the age of 16. 16 is old enough to know right and wrong. This one was so far out of bounds, it doesn't even register on that right/wrong scale IMO. 

Just bc I have given up on him doesn't mean he should be punished until death. AS I SAID (and you apparently chose to ignore), after he has been sufficiently punished, what he does IS ON HIM. If he goes out and accomplishes what I said, I'd have no ill feelings whatsoever, but again, that's on him, certainly not me. 

You don't want to go to jail, don't beat your teacher to a bloody pulp  Seems like it isn't that difficult for the majority of high school students to follow this one strict guideline and avoid jail. 
 

The effort to recuperate these guys? Maybe they shouldn't be criminals? Now, when it comes to minor drug infractions and small stupid things like that, I absolutely think there are other ways to punish/help individuals that don't involve jail... Violent crimes, #### no, you're going to jail, that's on you, and it is your fault - deal with it!

 

[fantasycurse42]

If Curse had his way, your wife would be unemployed.

We'll prove this statement incorrect pretty quickly.

@Peak

What percentage of kids in her school are there for beating the #### out of their teachers? I'd venture to say it is somewhere around 0%. So no, this is a wildly incorrect sweeping generalization. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Lethal injection

 

[Zow]

The end of the video they say "police are investigating and the student may be charged with battery," that's why I started the thread... I found that very odd. The student may be charged with battery? What's the delay here, seems pretty black and white unless there is something much much much deeper we don't know about, but I find that doubtful. 

It's not uncommon for a charging agency to delay making a charging decision.  If this occurred in my jurisdiction, there'd likely be some debate regarding whether to charge in the juvenile or adult court.  Additionally, the extent of the victim's injuries may not be known.  So, they could be waiting for medical reports to determine what the appropriate charge or charges would be. 

 

[fantasycurse42]

It's not uncommon for a charging agency to delay making a charging decision.  If this occurred in my jurisdiction, there'd likely be some debate regarding whether to charge in the juvenile or adult court.  Additionally, the extent of the victim's injuries may not be known.  So, they could be waiting for medical reports to determine what the appropriate charge or charges would be. 

Thanks for the explanation. 

 

[Lutherman2112]

For those that are unfamiliar with public school discipline procedures, here's a link to (what I believe is the school in question) district handbook. See page 20+

 

[Zow]

Thanks for the explanation. 

Further, I think there may be some group coordination between the school, law enforcement, and the prosecuting agency.  I've worked a few school cases and, in my experience in a different jurisdiction, school crime situations tend to be a bit more of a coordinated effort and more thought and care is put into it. 

Then again, in my state, there was a point where they were charging students just for yelling at their teachers so....

 

[Zow]

3-5 is about right for me.

Assuming the kid has no priors and the victim wasn't substantially disfigured, this is nuts. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Further, I think there may be some group coordination between the school, law enforcement, and the prosecuting agency.  I've worked a few school cases and, in my experience in a different jurisdiction, school crime situations tend to be a bit more of a coordinated effort and more thought and care is put into it. 

Then again, in my state, there was a point where they were charging students just for yelling at their teachers so....

I'm failing to see a problem here.

 

[Zow]

So sending a 16 year old to jail for a violent assault (that started with a sucker punch in someone who can't hit him back) caught on video is the same as physically beating an innocent little boy with a stick?

Seems about right....

I think the poster was comparing the disproportionate overreactions.  Both ADP and those calling for years of prison are overreacting and looking to dish out way too harsh of a punishment to somebody who is legally a child. 

 

[Zow]

I'm failing to see a problem here.

Oh, I see, you voted for Trump and hate the First Amendment... I knew it!

 

[T J]

Fight - "take part in a violent struggle involving the exchange of physical blows or the use of weapons" - Seems to fit the definition to me.  Now, it was one sided but there was definitely a violent struggle and exchange of physical blows.  

Except there wasn't an exchange. 

 

[T J]

Let's go ahead chalk up humor as one of the things you're really awful at. Sound like a plan?

No, it doesn't sound like a plan. And I deleted it so as not to get people's panties in a bunch. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Oh, I see, you voted for Trump and hate the First Amendment... I knew it!

Abe Fortas never taught public school, bucko.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Does Wisconsin have this?

California Assault and Battery Enhancements and Aggregating Factors

All assault offenses have enhancements, exceptions, and aggravating factors the can increase penalties. These factors can be where the incident took place, such as on the grounds of a school, in a hospital or prison, or who the act was committed against.

Under 243(d) battery causing serious injury in a felon with up to 4 years in state prison as the penalty.

Under 243(b), penalties for battery will be increased if you commit an assault against a:

police officer or peace officer

public safety officer or firefighter

emergency medical technician

teacher

prison guard

government official

highway worker

bus driver, cab driver or transit operator

lifeguard

 

[Lutherman2112]

Further, I think there may be some group coordination between the school, law enforcement, and the prosecuting agency.  I've worked a few school cases and, in my experience in a different jurisdiction, school crime situations tend to be a bit more of a coordinated effort and more thought and care is put into it. 




 

I work with several students that are in a diversion program just like you mentioned. This program is a cooperative effort of the courts, LEA, and the school district. My briefcase and backpack are searched.

 

[Zow]

Does Wisconsin have this?

Don't know but in my experience most states do have something pretty similar.  We do in AZ and I believe Minnesota did, too. 

 

[fantasycurse42]

California Assault and Battery Enhancements and Aggregating Factors

All assault offenses have enhancements, exceptions, and aggravating factors the can increase penalties. These factors can be where the incident took place, such as on the grounds of a school, in a hospital or prison, or who the act was committed against.

Under 243(d) battery causing serious injury in a felon with up to 4 years in state prison as the penalty.

Under 243(b), penalties for battery will be increased if you commit an assault against a:

police officer or peace officer

public safety officer or firefighter

emergency medical technician

teacher

prison guard

government official

highway worker

bus driver, cab driver or transit operator

lifeguard

In NYC, assaulting an MTA worker (bus drivers, subway employees, etc.) is a felony punishable by up to 7 years - there are literally signs everywhere that state this... I can't think of a sound argument where a teacher wouldn't be under the same protection.

 

[Limp Ditka]

No, it doesn't sound like a plan. And I deleted it so as not to get people's panties in a bunch. 

OK, Ames. Whatever you say. 

 

[McGarnicle]

One month of detention, suspended from all extracurriculars (sports, dances, etc.) for the school year, written apology to the teacher.

 

[Gawain]

Assuming the kid has no priors and the victim wasn't substantially disfigured, this is nuts. 

What's nuts is living in a society where the rights of the victim are superseded by the rehabilitation of the criminal. I blame Schafer and the insertion of the state into the victim-criminal relationship as a source of possible compensation. Ultimately, I believe it's a function of the adversarial system we operate under, instead of reversion back to an inquisitorial system.

 

[msommer]

I'd prefer a solution where my tax dollars aren't supporting him for life. Maybe make him work and pay restitution to the teacher

Enlist him in the military. Combat posting after basic

 

[Harry Manback]

Ya, at a minimum he needs to be expelled, possibly permanently, from the school and tried as an adult within the legal system.  5-years seems pretty severe for a fight but that should depend on his prior record.  

A fight is being two willing combatants. That was not a fight, that was a cheap shot assault and battery. 

 

[fantasycurse42]

One month of detention, suspended from all extracurriculars (sports, dances, etc.) for the school year, written apology to the teacher.

Slow down, Sheriff Joe.

 

[MikeMan]

I would really need to know what happened and extent of injuries to make a sentence. Did the teacher just bone his sister? Kill his dog? Any broken bones or surgery needed?

Absolute positive minimum is expelled permanently. Anyone advising less is nuts and can't put themselves in the teachers' shoes. You absolutely cannot have teachers afraid to go to school or give a bad grade. 

If I wildly assume no prior incidents with law or school and teacher just has a bloody nose, then I'd expel and feel comfortable with anything 30 days to 6 months for a 16 year old.

 

[NutterButter]

As much as I hate to have to spend another ~$25k/yr in tax dollars incarcerating someone and possibly condemning them to a life of crime, I don't really see much choice.   

 

[McGarnicle]

As much as I hate to have to spend another ~$25k/yr in tax dollars incarcerating someone and possibly condemning them to a life of crime, I don't really see much choice.   

I'd really like to know what was bothering him that led to this outburst. Then we can talk about what punishments, if any, might be appropriate.

 

[Gawain]

Here are your relevant statutes:

940.19  Battery; substantial battery; aggravated battery.

(1) Whoever causes bodily harm to another by an act done with intent to cause bodily harm to that person or another without the consent of the person so harmed is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

(2) Whoever causes substantial bodily harm to another by an act done with intent to cause bodily harm to that person or another is guilty of a Class I felony.

Wisconsin carves out a lot of exceptions, including for teachers:

(5) Battery to technical college district or school district officers and employees.

(a) In this subsection:

1. “School district" has the meaning given in s. 115.01 (3).

2. “Technical college district" means a district established under ch. 38.

(b) Whoever intentionally causes bodily harm to a technical college district or school district officer or employee acting in that capacity, and the person knows or has reason to know that the victim is a technical college district or school district officer or employee, without the consent of the person so injured, is guilty of a Class I felony.

Punishment for a Class I felony in Wisconsin is:

(3) Penalties for felonies are as follows:

(i) For a Class I felony, a fine not to exceed $10,000 or imprisonment not to exceed 3 years and 6 months, or both.

I'd even be willing to let him off the hook 6 months early. Handshakes all around.

 

[NutterButter]

I'd really like to know what was bothering him that led to this outburst. Then we can talk about what punishments, if any, might be appropriate.

Certainly.  But it would have to be something pretty severe to even make me consider something short of jail time.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Certainly.  But it would have to be something pretty severe to even make me consider something short of jail time.

According to one of the articles, this was during the first week of school. Unless there is an outside relationship from school, or he was left back and repeating a class/grade (which would make him a moron to begin with), I don't see a lengthy history here. Could be wrong, but the odds wouldn't favor that. 

 

[McGarnicle]

Certainly.  But it would have to be something pretty severe to even make me consider something short of jail time.

Nowadays just being an African American male is an incredibly frustrating experience. I'd see if maybe he would be interested in golf lessons.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

In NYC, assaulting an MTA worker (bus drivers, subway employees, etc.) is a felony punishable by up to 7 years - there are literally signs everywhere that state this... I can't think of a sound argument where a teacher wouldn't be under the same protection.

Well teachers already get summers off so...

 

[EYLive]

8 years in prison for the tough guy.

2 weeks community service for the kid that recorded on portrait.

 

[kface]

Nowadays just being an African American male is an incredibly frustrating experience. I'd see if maybe he would be interested in golf lessons.

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/stanford-swimmer-brock-turner-leaves-jail-friday-after-serving-half-his-sexual-assault-sentence

when you are rich and white....meh

Poor and black...throw the book at them

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

http://nationalpost.com/news/world/stanford-swimmer-brock-turner-leaves-jail-friday-after-serving-half-his-sexual-assault-sentence

when you are rich and white....meh

Poor and black...throw the book at them

If memory serves there was nearly, but being FBG not unanimous, condemnation of that sentence.  That was the case where the Stanford swimmer butt raped the passed out girl, yes?

 

[kface]

If memory serves there was nearly, but being FBG not unanimous, condemnation of that sentence.  That was the case where the Stanford swimmer butt raped the passed out girl, yes?

That is correct and got a lean sentence because the judge thought that putting him prison would be detrimental to his life

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

That is correct and got a lean sentence because the judge thought that putting him prison would be detrimental to his life

As I recall the judge saw it as sort of an accident, youthful hijinks to be expected, if not condoned, on a college campus.  Like "whoops rape".  I recall th esentence as actually being offensive.

 

[kface]

As I recall the judge saw it as sort of an accident, youthful hijinks to be expected, if not condoned, on a college campus.  Like "whoops rape".  I recall th esentence as actually being offensive.

Absolutely offensive.  And a much more heinous crime committed by an actual adult

 

[Limp Ditka]

Well teachers already get summers off so...

#fakenews

 

[Limp Ditka]

According to one of the articles, this was during the first week of school. Unless there is an outside relationship from school, or he was left back and repeating a class/grade (which would make him a moron to begin with), I don't see a lengthy history here. Could be wrong, but the odds wouldn't favor that. 

Article says he's 16, meaning he could be as far as his Junior year. So there's plenty of opportunity for a crossing of paths between the student and the teacher before the first week of this school year.