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Pure Squistion Entertainment (formerly the Colin Kaepernick thread) (1 Viewer)

Kaep Sitting for Anthem

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One thing I am at least please to see in the entirety of this is that it's bringing forward the concept of what Freedom of Speech actually means. Whether you agree with his statement or sentiment or not, him saying it and not expecting recourse highlights the disconnect many have on what the right actually means. You can say whatever you want, but you cannot expect there to not be fallout, positive or negative.

I respect his right to do what he needs to do to bring attention to a cause he's passionate about. At the same time, he cannot be surprised if the 49ers decide his protest along with his recent play as a whole doesn't add up to something they want on their team anymore.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
For those that are liking this, who the messenger is clearly means nothing to you. This is a guy who has been at the center of tension between a locker room for years - There's usually a reason your teammates don't like you. I'd conclude he's a selfish loser, but that's obviously speculation and can be argued to death. Furthermore, his actions of delivering this message are being done very incorrectly IMO (glad to see the majority of posters here agree with that).

If you're going to get an NFL guy to champion a message, someone like Cam would be much better. This is a guy liked by his team bc he's a leader, but much more importantly appears to care heavily about the charities he has been highly visible in for years. 

Some of you would probably be happy with a domestic violence summit ran by Greg Hardy.
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:lmao: :fishing:

 
squistion said:
Maybe, maybe not. This certainly is not going to help is career. Although if/when he is cut by the 49ers (which seems likely) he will eventually catch on with another team, maybe not right away but after this blows over. Teams are always looking for backup QBs, even mediocre ones. If Jimmy Clausen's services are in demand then he should land somewhere. 

However, his "protest" has drawn more attention to his message than if he had given 1000 interviews. If he had given a press conference and gave the same message, I doubt there would be a thread about or that we would be talking about it in this forum (with the possible exception of the Black Lives Matter thread and I am not sure of that).
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Not all attention is good attention. 

 
Megaton said:
It is a convoluted way to get his message across.  If he says he believes in liberty, freedom, and justice for all, then why be disrepectful to the flag which represents that.  That is why most people don't get his message nor really cares what it is. 

It is not un-American to not want the national anthem and sporting events, but to me the arguments against come across as a phobia-like fear of nationalism. 
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The aim of protest is to be confrontational in uncomfortable ways. On the Austin campus of the University of Texas, thousands of co-eds are traveling around with bright pink dildoes hanging on the outside of their backpacks to draw attention to Texas law re: guns on campus. That probably makes many neutrals uncomfortable. That's the point. 

 
CGRdrJoe said:
11% of people that posted where? There have been 217 votes so far, no where near the number of actual posters ...ah #### I've bitten the bait.
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When someone looks at numbers and then refutes the actual evidence that's there in black/white, there is zero reason to continue the conversation. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
The aim of protest is to be confrontational in uncomfortable ways. On the Austin campus of the University of Texas, thousands of co-eds are traveling around with bright pink dildoes hanging on the outside of their backpacks to draw attention to Texas law re: guns on campus. That probably makes many neutrals uncomfortable. That's the point. 
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Depends which way they are pointed. 

 
roadkill1292 said:
That's 11% now. This is going to be a tough one to win but we've won harder fights.
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Yea, the first 220 were the anomaly - big swing coming. 

Your opinion is the minority, and that's okay - I disagree with it, but you're obviously entitled to it. Disputing it is the minority (like the guy above is doing) is just silly.

 
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moleculo said:
I don't understand why this is even debatable.  10 pages?  really?
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You seriously don't understand why there's ten pages?  This story is a hot take factory. I personally couldn't care less about what anyone does during the national anthem and I'd be surprised if this wasn't a 50 page thread by the end of the week.  The only thing that could make this more tailor-made for FFA debate is if he was protesting gun laws and his yoga-pant wearing girlfriend supported him.

 
Chicago on pace for record murder #'s in 2016. K-Stink's involvement in attempting to fix the problem: sit on a bench at a pro football game during the playing of the national anthem until someone fixes it. At least he's consistent as far as his ability to help out.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Yea, the first 220 were the anomaly - big swing coming. 

Your opinion is the minority, and that's okay - I disagree with it, but you're obviously entitled to it. Disputing it is the minority (like the guy above is doing) is just silly.
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No, I mean it's going to take us years to sway the traditionalists from their way of thinking. Your little poll is of no consequence.

 
roadkill1292 said:
No, I mean it's going to take us years to sway the traditionalists from their way of thinking. Your little poll is of no consequence.
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You appear to care a lot about this, what are you doing IRL? I'd assume some hefty donations, dozens of hours every week of time donated, etc?

 
lod001 said:
Chicago on pace for record murder #'s in 2016. K-Stink's involvement in attempting to fix the problem: sit on a bench at a pro football game during the playing of the national anthem until someone fixes it. At least he's consistent as far as his ability to help out.
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Oh yeah.  That's the good stuff.

 
lod001 said:
Chicago on pace for record murder #'s in 2016. K-Stink's involvement in attempting to fix the problem: sit on a bench at a pro football game during the playing of the national anthem until someone fixes it. At least he's consistent as far as his ability to help out.
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Kaep made no mention of black-on-black crime, so he was not attempting to fix that problem.

 
CGRdrJoe said:
What are some of the specific things you believe need to change?

CK: There's a lot of things that need to change. One specifically? Police brutality. There's people being murdered unjustly and not being held accountable. People are being given paid leave for killing people. That's not right. That's not right by anyone's standards
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CK is against due process

 
fantasycurse42 said:
When someone looks at numbers and then refutes the actual evidence that's there in black/white, there is zero reason to continue the conversation. 
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actually I think most people look at the thread title and decide that this is not worth their time and energy. Sort of like what's going on with these situations in real life.

 
roadkill1292 said:
Why are you changing the subject?
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Not changing any subjects - you referred to "us" as bringing change. I found that interesting, you appear passionate, wondering what you're doing, that's all. I think there a bunch of people who post about all of their causes here and what they feel is right/wrong but don't do #### about it beyond posting here.

My point is more about Kaep, he's an ####### (which he's been for a while now), sitting during the National Anthem is a #### move, and a good message needs a good messenger. I agree there is a lot of improvements on a ton of things that can be done (but prob where some of opinions intersect on the same side of the coin), but wholeheartedly feel this guy should have zero part of any of it. I haven't even read the text of his interview bc I don't care what this ####### has to say, he's an #######. I mentioned Cam earlier, if someone like him or Wilson was to step in on something like this (guys who have been heavily involved/visible about causes they care about, leaders), I'd be more interested in what they have to say. I doubt either would sit during the National Anthem though to deliver their message. Kaep's history screams a bunch of stuff, leader isn't one of those things, he's an #######, I've felt this way for a while, now a bunch of others agree with it too.

 
Juxtatarot said:
This is not a true statement.
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Well sure, but don't isolate that stupidity from the rest of the post.  The terrible non-existent nickname "K-Stink," the notion that his protest is somehow about crime in Chicago, the classic flawed logic that if you're not doing everything you can't do anything, the incorrect suggestion that Kaepernick doesn't do anything to help out anyone ... it's all terrible/amazing. 

I'm a hot take aficionado with a special love for the non sequitur hot take, and that post might be the Mona Lisa of the genre.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
You appear to care a lot about this, what are you doing IRL? I'd assume some hefty donations, dozens of hours every week of time donated, etc?
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Look, he's taken enough guff/eye pokes from Moe, & now you wanna pile on?  Thank God he does care a lot about this, Curly.

 
So he is taking a stand in support of his biological father who abandoned him....I wonder what his adoptive parents think...The same parents who raised him and provided him the opportunities he has today...

 
CGRdrJoe said:
actually I think most people look at the thread title and decide that this is not worth their time and energy. Sort of like what's going on with these situations in real life.
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Yet we're 48 hours into the topic, approaching 11 pages, and 233 votes in. 

You're laughably incorrect, not on opinion, but hard quantitative data. Roadkill appears to be arguing something else, so that's a different discussion, but the opinion of this small community appears majority on one side. You can dispute that all you want, and you clearly appear to be someone who won't admit being wrong, but numbers never lie. No need for a response.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Not changing any subjects - you referred to "us" as bringing change. I found that interesting, you appear passionate, wondering what you're doing, that's all. I think there a bunch of people who post about all of their causes here and what they feel is right/wrong but don't do #### about it beyond posting here.

My point is more about Kaep, he's an ####### (which he's been for a while now), sitting during the National Anthem is a #### move, and a good message needs a good messenger. I agree there is a lot of improvements on a ton of things that can be done (but prob where some of opinions intersect on the same side of the coin), but wholeheartedly feel this guy should have zero part of any of it. I haven't even read the text of his interview bc I don't care what this ####### has to say, he's an #######. I mentioned Cam earlier, if someone like him or Wilson was to step in on something like this (guys who have been heavily involved/visible about causes they care about, leaders), I'd be more interested in what they have to say. I doubt either would sit during the National Anthem though to deliver their message. Kaep's history screams a bunch of stuff, leader isn't one of those things, he's an #######, I've felt this way for a while, now a bunch of others agree with it too.
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yep, this sums it all up nicely. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Well sure, but don't isolate that stupidity from the rest of the post.  The terrible non-existent nickname "K-Stink," the notion that his protest is somehow about crime in Chicago, the classic flawed logic that if you're not doing everything you can't do anything, the incorrect suggestion that Kaepernick doesn't do anything to help out anyone ... it's all terrible/amazing. 

I'm a hot take aficionado with a special love for the non sequitur hot take, and that post might be the Mona Lisa of the genre.
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Good points.  I just find it annoying that there is a crowd that keeps saying violent crime in this worst it has ever been without acknowledging/knowing how things used to be worse.

 
I haven't been following this too close.  I understand he's upset about oppression.  Has he described what, specifically, he means on that note?  

Most importantly, what metric must be hit for him to stand up again?  I'm sure he's laid this out in detail, but I've obviously missed it.

 
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Now that Krapernicks career in football is over, maybe he will become a police officer in South Chicago. He certainly has the desired educational requirements. I bet he can become a real positive influence and driving force between the police community and the South Chicago community..Now there is where he can make areal difference.

 
Sand said:
I haven't been following this too close.  I understand he's upset about oppression.  Has he described what, specifically, he means on that note?  

Most importantly, what metric must be hit for him to stand up again?  I'm sure he's laid this out in detail, but I've obviously missed it.
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He did an 18-minute interview with all the local media about it yesterday. Just google it. 

You might not agree with him but he laid out his points well. 

 
Sand said:
I haven't been following this too close.  I understand he's upset about oppression.  Has he described what, specifically, he means on that note?  

Most importantly, what metric must be hit for him to stand up again?  I'm sure he's laid this out in detail, but I've obviously missed it.
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if the starting QB gets injured

 
I'm not sure I understand the dismissal of the protest on the grounds that he's not a very important player. Would opponents of his protest seriously be more prone to discuss the issues being brought to light if Cam Newton had undertaken this action? How about Tom Brady? He's still in the league, right?

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Maybe the San Fran season ticket holders should boycott the games until they get rid of this ungrateful piece of ####...
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"Listen, I'll put up with taxpayer-funded stadiums, lying about links between football and CTE, suicides and homicides associated with football-induced CTE, surreal price-gouging for parking and concessions, incessant commercial breaks, being forced to pay full regular season prices for two garbage preseason games, and at least 12 recent arrests of 49er players on a variety of charges including multiple DUIs and felony domestic violence charges.  But the backup quarterback not standing up during the national anthem?  Now you've gone too far!!!"

 
roadkill1292 said:
I'm not sure I understand the dismissal of the protest on the grounds that he's not a very important player. Would opponents of his protest seriously be more prone to discuss the issues being brought to light if Cam Newton had undertaken this action? How about Tom Brady? He's still in the league, right?
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If you're not sending your kids to $20k pre school, then you shall have no credibility in commenting...

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Maybe the San Fran season ticket holders should boycott the games until they get rid of this ungrateful piece of ####...
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So they should throw away the tickets they paid a lot of money for, because this guy did a protest they may or may not agree with. :lmao:

Woof. 

Inforwars and brietbert must be having a meltdown today. 

 
Megaton said:
If being against everything America stands for is not anti-American, then what is?  Besides, why does anyone get upset about calling someone un-American?  That is free speech too.  Seems like throwing labels around like bigot for the filmiest of reasons is tolerable, but don't dare call someone anti-American. 
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Because it's inaccurate. I'll have to add in MT's post into this thread, but it's not as much about anti-americanism as it is about anti-tribalism.

 
Maurile in the anthem before games thread:

There's a strong chance that you guys are modeling other people's thought processes inaccurately.


You might take it for granted that everyone mentally divides the world into "us" (in this case, Americans) and "them" in the same situations as you do. So when other people cringe at what they consider excessive American patriotism at a ballgame, you conclude that they, like you, are dividing the world into Americans versus non-Americans just the same, and that they're coming down on the latter side. Why do they hate America?

But in fact, I suspect that it's generally not America that they are rebelling against, but the division into "us" against "them" in that context in the first place. They don't cringe at prominent displays of American patriotism because they hate America, but because they think that ballgames are sort of inappropriate places for emphasizing nationality-based tribalism.

I think we'd all agree that, in principle, there can be such a thing as too much nationalism. I don't think singing the National Anthem before a ballgame crosses that line (and in fact, I have a hard time identifying with anyone who didn't get goosebumps when Whitney Houston sang at Super Bowl XXV), but I guess we can all draw such lines in different places. The point is that hating excessive tribalism is not at all the same thing as hating America.
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TobiasFunke said:
"Listen, I'll put up with taxpayer-funded stadiums, lying about links between football and CTE, suicides and homicides associated with football-induced CTE, surreal price-gouging for parking and concessions, incessant commercial breaks, being forced to pay full regular season prices for two garbage preseason games, and at least 12 recent arrests of 49er players on a variety of charges including multiple DUIs and felony domestic violence charges.  But the backup quarterback not standing up during the national anthem?  Now you've gone too far!!!"
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"Listen" I'll put up with 70% rate of born out of wedlock children, domestic violence, selling of drugs on the street corners, carjackings, armed robbery, looting , burning of buildings, gang violence , gun violence , murder of thousands of black people at the hands of other black people,...but when I see black criminals being shot by white police...that is where I draw the line...I blame America and will not stand up during the National Anthem..

 
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