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QB C.J. Stroud, HOU (1 Viewer)
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massraider
Footballguy
I thought it was super interesting that after the big trade, we heard immediately that it was for Stroud. Like, in the same moment they announced the trade, the news guys were saying they were hearing it was for Stroud. I was thinking someone from the Bears leaked it, because what do they care if it's not a secret?
So there's a clip of McCown talking to Stroud at the pro day, and they were chatting about finding a place to play basketball (McCown can hoop) next year in Charlotte.
Pretty safe bet he's going to Panthers.
So there's a clip of McCown talking to Stroud at the pro day, and they were chatting about finding a place to play basketball (McCown can hoop) next year in Charlotte.
Pretty safe bet he's going to Panthers.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Plus, again, it’s obvious that McCown loves the kid when you watch the scouting series he did prior to the Panthers making that trade.
He had plenty of good things to say about Young as well (and to lesser extent ARich, Levis, and a few others) but he had a serious twinkle in his eye while breaking down Stroud’s film.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
FIRST ROUND MOCK
@firstroundmock
https://firstroundmock.com/2023/01/c-j-stroud-reminds-former-nfl-scout-of-warren-moon/… C.J. Stroud is the best QB in this draft class #NFLDraft2023 #NFLDraft
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C.J. Stroud Reminds Former NFL Scout of Warren Moon
@firstroundmock
https://firstroundmock.com/2023/01/c-j-stroud-reminds-former-nfl-scout-of-warren-moon/… C.J. Stroud is the best QB in this draft class #NFLDraft2023 #NFLDraft
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C.J. Stroud Reminds Former NFL Scout of Warren Moon
Largent
Footballguy
Definitely tilting back to Bryce Young to Carolina.
Lance Zierlein who resides in Houston and correctly nailed a few picks for Texans last year, comes out on Twitter 5-6 days ago and starts talking about Texans not going QB at #2. Which then leads to who wants to trade up for CJ Stroud? Could realistically see a team like Seattle moving up. Houston gets Jalen Carter and a couple more picks in 2/3 ranges. Seattle didn't trade RW away without a design - and as good as Geno played last season, that wasn't the plan and I don't think his play has changed minds. If anything it emboldens them that a QB that doesn't need to start ASAP is a great investment. JS likely had to convince Jody Allen that trading Russ was a good idea, and with a plan that would create enough capital to get a kid like CJ Stroud. His humble background - dad in prison for 40 yrs, not getting offers coming out of L.A. Earned everything he's got. Pete Carroll loves guys like that going back to his USC days.
Calling it here, CJ Stroud goes 2 and is Seattle's new QB.
Lance Zierlein who resides in Houston and correctly nailed a few picks for Texans last year, comes out on Twitter 5-6 days ago and starts talking about Texans not going QB at #2. Which then leads to who wants to trade up for CJ Stroud? Could realistically see a team like Seattle moving up. Houston gets Jalen Carter and a couple more picks in 2/3 ranges. Seattle didn't trade RW away without a design - and as good as Geno played last season, that wasn't the plan and I don't think his play has changed minds. If anything it emboldens them that a QB that doesn't need to start ASAP is a great investment. JS likely had to convince Jody Allen that trading Russ was a good idea, and with a plan that would create enough capital to get a kid like CJ Stroud. His humble background - dad in prison for 40 yrs, not getting offers coming out of L.A. Earned everything he's got. Pete Carroll loves guys like that going back to his USC days.
Calling it here, CJ Stroud goes 2 and is Seattle's new QB.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don’t buy it, but when I do the draft contest, you should definitely roll with this.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Stroud is a lock to Carolina at 1
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Agreed. Been saying it since the trade. My sentiment has only grown stronger with every passing day.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Whoever is touting Young #1 has somebody out there listening. Odds on at -250 @draftkings.
Hafuxd002020
Footballguy
There were already stories Carolina liked him so what's really changed (other than Bryce's high processing score)? It feels more and more like Carolina is running some kind of time-released news cycle as the draft approaches. This is how I'd expect Jerry Jones to handle having the first overall pick. Still lean Stroud but there's conflicting information.
Would Josh McCown talk about seeing Stroud and playing basketball with him in Carolina, then turn right around and favor Bryce Young?
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
If Stroud was the no 1 pick in Jan, Feb, Mar...nothing has changed except people like to play the what if game.
Young is short and under weight for most successful QBs with a few exceptions.
Still, it's hard to believe Tepper traded up to No 1 for a solid but not superstar QB like Stroud.
Maybe that's why the No 1 was truly available because if Trevor Lawrence were in this Draft you can be sure the Bears would have traded Fields away and kept the No 1.
They can't all be Rock Stars at QB and with the way Carolina has been whiffing of late since Tepper took over, hard to pt a lot of stock into the "They're doing it right" box.
Count me as a skeptic of almost anything Tepper does until he proves otherwise. Big ego, likes to be involved in all the decisions, he might as well be the acting GM.
Young is short and under weight for most successful QBs with a few exceptions.
Still, it's hard to believe Tepper traded up to No 1 for a solid but not superstar QB like Stroud.
Maybe that's why the No 1 was truly available because if Trevor Lawrence were in this Draft you can be sure the Bears would have traded Fields away and kept the No 1.
They can't all be Rock Stars at QB and with the way Carolina has been whiffing of late since Tepper took over, hard to pt a lot of stock into the "They're doing it right" box.
Count me as a skeptic of almost anything Tepper does until he proves otherwise. Big ego, likes to be involved in all the decisions, he might as well be the acting GM.
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A lot of talk last year about Pickett and Tepper's connection with Pitt making him a lock at #6. The Panthers drafted Ekwonu which was a great pick.
Lance did nail the picks last year but he's on record saying the Texans won't take a WR with their first 3 picks and that weird draft he had taking Wilson at 2.
Houston would riot if they didn't take a QB at 2 whether it's Stroud or Young and Rapoport said yesterday it's going to be Young and Stroud 1 and 2 in some order
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Ekonu sure, but they haven't all been darlings and when you look at the draft capital spent already on poor QB play.
Does Miami get credit for trading a 3rd Rd pick and getting Jalen Ramsey? They didn't draft him but they used draft capital to get him.
Carolina has sunk some of their draft picks into QBs that might have been drafted by other teams, not working out so far.
Everyone assumes QB at No 1, but in 2023 that might not be a Trevor Lawrence or Joe Burrow
CJ Stroud floor is much higher IMHO than any of the other QBs that get tossed around in that Top5-10 Tier.
If I were an NFL GM and could not secure the top QB on the board, would continue to build out my OL/DL and perhaps draft a B in the 2nd or 3rd,I think Hooker is going to be a wonderful consolation prize for anyone that waits after Stroud comes off the board. Hooker could end up being one of the better selections when we look back in 3-4 years.
Stroud, Young, Levis and Richardson, they can't all be good. Avg QB rate in NFL history is about 1 Gem per Draft that will be a difference maker at QB.
How many of those first 4-5 names at QB are going to actually work out and become franchise QBs?
Largent
Footballguy
More and more rumblings that Texans might go defence. Obv would be to trade back and load up....Seattle at 5, ensures one of Tyree or Carter. If any coach can break a guy like Carter to put in the effort, it would be supreme alpha dawg like Demeco Ryans. Carter is top shelf talent.
Just food for thought
Just food for thought
I would think Josh McCown's opinion makes up less than 10% of the decision making. He's not the Owner, GM, HC, or OC.
My reply was in reply to you saying Tepper might as well be the GM.
If so Panthers first rounders since he took over drafting have been decent. They've also not reached for a QB. Yup you are right they may strike out, but you don't hit a home run if you don't take a swing.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He is the QBs coach though.
Jayded
Footballguy
Almost every Texans forum is equally split amongst BY, Stroud, and other (usually Anderson). More and more noise lately as the Panthers' narrative has shifted to BY is that the Texans might not take Stroud. Reading the tea leaves, the Texans thought about trading with the Bears to likely go up and get one guy (presumably BY). Couple their latest reported hesitancy with QB definitively at 2, it feels like it's just piecing together everything we Texans fans are hearing to say especially if the Panthers do go with Young that it's not guarantee the Texans go with Stroud.
I'm in the camp of wait a year and have been from the start. I warmed to Young, but if the Panthers take him, the Texans are not a QB away. If you have any doubt about Stroud as I feel like they might have, I'd trade down and pick up the picks you need to rebuild the franchise and wait until there is a stronger QB class next year when you have 2 first round picks currently and maybe more if you slide down this year (ammo to go get Maye/Caleb in 2024).
I've mentioned in I think other threads, but Stroud also shares an agent with Deshaun Watson, and that could very much matter to the Texans.
Full opinion with no evidence to back it up: I think Jalen Carter is still very much in the conversation at #2. There's a reason he didn't want to visit with any non-top-10 teams, and he is very much the best DT prospect of the last decade. Could easily see Ryans wanting that defensive centerpiece and while Anderson has fewer red flags, he also has a lower ceiling.
Another full opinion: I don't think the market to trade up for a QB is as big as the media is hyping it to be. I wouldn't be shocked if Young went #1, if Stroud fell to #4, and Hou/Ari were unable to move down. Frankly, I'm not even sure Indy would prefer Stroud to Levis/Richardson, as Colts GM Chris Ballard is maybe the most tool-based drafter there is.
If I were someone who wanted Stroud to succeed, I would think the best-case scenario would be he somehow makes it to Seattle.
Jayded
Footballguy
I believe Young also has the same agent. That was a big surprise to learn early about Stroud and figured it had to play some role. With Young also with the same group, if you choose one of them you cannot afford that agency (would have to someday anyways).
My ideal scenario is to drop down a little to a team like Seattle at 5 or around there if a team covers coming up for Stroud. Pick someone like Carter at 5 while also picking up draft picks in 2024 and then use those if you need to to move up for Maye/Caleb in 2024.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I won’t try to convince you but IMO Bryce is further along and has higher upside. Of course there’s more risk too.
Stroud is the safe, don’t get me fired pick. Average franchise QB for the next decade is the likely outcome. That’s probably the right choice for Carolina.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
And maybe my FF team as well.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Levis did beat Iowa in 2021 in the Citrus Bowl and beat Florida twice, beat LSU, and a ranked Mississippi St team and Louisville twice.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Good points, but compared to Bryce and Stroud
Largent
Footballguy
Lance Zierlein 2023 NFL mock draft 3.0: Ravens select C.J. Stroud after trade; Patriots pick QB
In his third mock of the 2023 NFL Draft, Lance Zierlein projects the Texans will pass on taking a quarterback at No. 2 and the Ravens will trade Lamar Jackson to the Colts, shaking up the outlook for Round 1.
Zierlein as I said before, is a Houston guy. For what it's worth, I've read a few articles in the last few days that are suggesting that Will Anderson is the guy they covet. I can imagine Ryans would want a cornerstone DE that has checks every box to start off. Drop a QB in Houston and he might be wrecked in one season.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Sure, but they don’t have one now, and didn’t pursue one in FA. So….
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They did sign Case Keenum, who isn’t very good of course, but it wouldn’t make much sense to spend that money if they were going with a rookie QB. They could have just let Davis Mills backup the rookie for cheap. I think Keenum was brought in so that they don’t “have to” take a QB if the one they like doesn’t fall to 2.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Possible
I’m still betting on making a splash at QB with a top 2 pick.
Ryans knows as well as anyone how important the position is.
I’d bet on a WR at 12, too, but there I could definitely see a defensive player. They’ll have a bevy of good options at 12.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yes so he’d also know he doesn’t want to get it wrong either.
From what I’ve heard the Texans are only really interested in Young, and if he’s gone they’ll punt QB this season. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I am starting to think these mocks where all 4 QBs are gone by pick 5 are going to be off when we actually get to the draft.
Last season a ton of mocks had guys like Willis and Howell in the Top 10 (with Pickett). I’m starting to think maybe Richardson and Levi’s fall further than we think.
They need a veteran to mentor, Keenum makes perfect sense for that, used to being a backup and not gonna get sour about not starting.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Plus they’ve already signaled that Mills is not the answer, so why would be he the answer as a backup?
IMO they draft whomever is there of Stroud or Young (with ARich being a longshot) and start them right away.
If they flounder, in comes Keenum.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I never believed it for a second.
IMO it goes Stroud/Young in some order and then ARich & Levis fall.
How far depends on how spry the Colts & Raiders are feeling.
I doubt 4/5 picks are QBs.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Teams don’t need their backup QB to be “the answer”, especially a rebuilding team. Mills has been up and down but has shown enough to say he’ll stick around the league as a backup.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Seems to me, the Texans have an option to have their cake and eat it too.
Let's say they do go Will Anderson @ #2. They also hold picks #12, #33, #65, #73. If they package #12/33 to SEA (1780 DVC pts) for #5 /$123 (1749 DVC points)...this guarantees them still a shot at one of the 4 QB's.
It takes away their 2nd rounder, but still gives them 2 in Rounds 3 & 4.
Let's say they do go Will Anderson @ #2. They also hold picks #12, #33, #65, #73. If they package #12/33 to SEA (1780 DVC pts) for #5 /$123 (1749 DVC points)...this guarantees them still a shot at one of the 4 QB's.
It takes away their 2nd rounder, but still gives them 2 in Rounds 3 & 4.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They could also just take whichever of Stroud or Young falls to 2, then draft an elite defender at 12.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
Is the defender at #12 in the same class as Anderson?
It's possible they simply take Stroud at #2 (assuming Bryce goes #1)...but if they are less than infatuated with him...I imagine the delta between him and Levis/Richardson would be less than Anderson and who'd be available at #12.
They also have two 1st rounders next year too.
Largent
Footballguy
Ryans knows? He also saw up close in person what Trey Lance vs Purdy did for SF.
Largent
Footballguy
exactly, they could trade out of 2, and get ANOTHER first for next year which would essentially lock them in for another high QB choice if they wanted, or if the team picking 1 would consider moving out
I've been coming around to the idea that the AFC South teams aren't as committed to QB as initially thought. I wouldn't be totally shocked if Carolina was the only team who went QB in the top-5. Also, sort of wondering if the trade markets for moving up really exist, or if say Arizona, is just stuck at #3 unless they just give the pick away by trade chart standards.
I'd actually be pretty surprised if the Raiders go QB at this point. For better or worse, likely worse, they sound committed to Jimmy G.
Side note: If Carolina is indeed the only team in the top-5 who goes QB, then Chicago really made out like bandits. That would also track with why they didn't trade to a closer pick and moved down to #9, perhaps the market wasn't really there as much as assumed.
Admittedly, I've been lower on Stroud throughout the process than most, I think he's more a 5-10 range level talent while I think Young is a truly elite prospect worthy of going #1. But if Carolina goes Young, and it sure seems to be pointing that way, I could see Stroud falling a bit too. He'd be really interesting in Detroit as he's basically better Goff.
2nd side note: I'm really starting to think Bijan Robinson is going to go way higher than anyone thinks. Like, I've kinda had Detroit at #18 as when he starts to come into play, but as we get closer, I'm thinking he's a top-10 pick, and honestly could see top-6. In general, I think QBs and WRs may have been overrated, and RBs and TEs are being underrated. Whether that is smart team building is certainly questionable, but the quality of prospects relative to their positions seem to have fewer question marks.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Well yes exactly - so being in a position to draft a blue chip prospect like Stroud, who’s significantly more experienced than Lance, would make a ton of sense.
And back to your comparison, Purdy was a very experienced QB, Vs Lance, who’d only started a handful of games.
So in that light I would bet Ryans would take advantage of the rare opportunity to take Stroud/Young/ARich
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