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QB Colin Kaepernick, Free Agent (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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Chaka
Footballguy
The lines will fall exactly how you think they will.
The Giants have a very high quality back-up in Eli. Get back to us next year when it's a Josh Johnson, Luke Fall or, ooooof Alex "Trick Shot" Tanney type.
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
The bears are having some serious issues at quarterback. That said, I would be horrified if they signed him. Like you, zero interest.
IheartGuinness
Footballguy
habsfan
Footballguy
I am also squarely in the camp that there is no purely football discussion to be had here. He's a 32 year old unemployed QB. He appears to be in shape and what can be assessed of his abilities based on a workout is largely positive. When employed, he showed a very broad range of effectiveness, from QBing a Super Bowl team to looking pretty much lost out there. Am I leaving anything out that is purely football?
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Dizzy
Footballguy
Great approach. As a Steelers fan with disruption and uncertainty at the QB position, I do not want to see Kaep anywhere near Pittsburgh. Nothing to do with his physical skills… 100% to do with his commitment and focus on football.
It looks/sounds to me like Kaep wants to be an activist. I absolutely applaud him for this because god knows that the world needs activists. Being an activist comes with great sacrifice however, and makes it almost impossible to function in the public spotlight if participating in anything other than activism. Facing unrelenting pressure and scrutiny to do the right thing along with a long line of haters is a part of everyday life for an activist. Ironically similar forces that an NFL QB must soldier through, so it makes sense that a skilled gluten for punishment would be a good fit for both jobs… just not at the same time. Being an activist and NFL QB are both all-consuming, full time lifestyles. Being good at one leads to ignoring the other (at least in part). Kaep cannot (and should not) ignore whatever drives him as an activist, meaning that the QB responsibilities must suffer. This would be my primary concern as a HC/GM in the NFL.
Looking up his 2015-2016 QB ratings I see 43.4 and 49.5. I don't think that is a good QB. So his last 2 years at age 28-29 were really bad, and now he is 3 years removed from playing and tossing a ball to some receivers without a pass rush or concern about getting hit shows he is ready for the NFL again? On a purely football level I wouldn't take a chance on he being for real. His last minute change of venue was also a calculated power play and if I were an owner I would find that concerning.
Add in the potential circus and hard pass for me. I don't see how his presence would HELP a teams chemistry even if one assumes it won't hurt.
Add in the potential circus and hard pass for me. I don't see how his presence would HELP a teams chemistry even if one assumes it won't hurt.
Don Hutson
Footballguy
A qbr of 49.5 would put Kaep at 19th highest this year right behind Philip Rivers who is 18th highest with a qbr of 49.6.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Birdie048
Footballguy
What was his thinking in doing this? I think this was a poor decision to show is interest in being in the NFL vs being on stage to promote his beliefs.
I think the whole workout was handled poorly by both parties and this was just a poor way for him to try to show he belongs in the NFL.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I'd take him in Chicago. But that has less to do with him and more to do with I'd take anyone over Trubisky at this point. I'd rather see them line up in the wishbone with Patterson, Montgomery, and Cohen in the backfield than Trubisky. Actually Kaepernick would probably be a great fit for that kind of offense. 3 RB's, just Robinson out wide in constant 1-on-1's.
Chaka
Footballguy
In Saturday the league presented a waiver which should have exclusively protected the league against any lawsuits or workers' claims if Kaepernick got injured during the workout. Which was completely reasonable.
However the league also included language asking Kaepernick to waive any and all future labor law claims against the league. That is entirely unreasonable.
The league said if he didn't sign he couldn't work out at the Falcons facility. It was an unreasonable request by the league so Kaepernick moved the workout.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Perhaps the Bears could again thrill the nation with their T-formation. Bear down Chicago Bears.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
"We’re waiting for the 32 owners, the 32 teams, (commissioner of the NFL) Roger Goodell, all of them to stop running—stop running from the truth, stop running from the people …"
These are not the statements of a guy just trying to get a job. Wearing a t-shirt with ####a Kinte, sporting an afro that would make Randy Moss jealous, and spewing inflammatory rhetoric about "non standard" waivers are not the actions of a guy just trying to get a job.
Colin wants his cake and to eat it to. He wants to play in the NFL and blast the NFL in parallel. And when he doesn't get any job offers, he wonders why and alleges collusion.
These are not the statements of a guy just trying to get a job. Wearing a t-shirt with ####a Kinte, sporting an afro that would make Randy Moss jealous, and spewing inflammatory rhetoric about "non standard" waivers are not the actions of a guy just trying to get a job.
Colin wants his cake and to eat it to. He wants to play in the NFL and blast the NFL in parallel. And when he doesn't get any job offers, he wonders why and alleges collusion.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
lol at language filter
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I had never hear CK speak before and was quite surprised. His voice was much higher that I expected and he sounded very like he was from the deep south. Y..all
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
I can't really speak to his fashion sense but the waiver was entirely unreasonable.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Thanks for the additional info... I was unaware of some of these legal manuevers ... but my point was what was his thinking wearing a ####a Kinte shirt for his tryouts? I think it emphasized his activism and downplays his interest in being a professional football player again. Granted, the symbolism is there, but it cast a light on his stance that he will continue to be a thorn in the side of the NFL.Chaka said:
habsfan
Footballguy
Along the same lines, him telling scouts to go back to their owners and tell them not to be scared, what's that about exactly? I don't believe I've ever ended a job interview on that note. Telling them not to be scared could be interpreted as exactly the opposite of that.
Chaka
Footballguy
My impulse from a "Just shut up and play football" perspective is to agree with you. But this is America, why shouldn't Football players be activists too? We're killing this guy because he is standing up (or kneeling) over issues he strongly believes in. Issues that seem very legitimate and problematic for us as a society.
It took courage to do it silently, and more so when it became public. And we, us the consumers, are telling him to shut up and go away. His absence from the league has zero, nothing, not one iota to do with his football abilities.
Chaka
Footballguy
Are you sure you want to keep walking down the slave history analogy trail? Think about it, very deeply. I sincerely suggest leaving it alone.
There is a reason there were very few slave revolts.
Dizzy
Footballguy
The ####a Kinte shirt invites that, no? That shirt suggests that Kaep is not willing to conform. At all costs to himself, he will not conform to a system just to make the situation easier for himself. In other words, he rejects being called "Toby"... as to suggest that others have.
I remember Roots clearly. I was in 6th grade... I recall the wedge it drove (unintentionally) between friends... 12 year olds telling teachers to call them by their "true name" not their slave name... nasty fights common between kids that were friends the day before. Crazy stuff. So that T-shirt hits home for me. It is meant to stir controversy and draw out emotions... mission accomplished.
The stage was his, and he decided what to wear on his chest... so here we are.
EDIT: Apologies to FBG mods that asked to keep this thread on football. As I said earlier, this thread is about a guy that IS NOT PLAYING FOOTBALL, and a guy that appears to have used his last moment in the NFL spotlight (sham or not) to sabotage his own chances of getting back into football. IMO this thread (and all Kaep threads) end up EXACTLY the way Colin Kaepernick wants them to.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
We are going to start veering away from on the field football discussion, but IMO it's possible to be an activist and a football player and not be disruptive. If CK had kept those two separate, he never would have found himself in his current situation.
Not sure why he couldn't have done everything quietly football related and start a separate foundation, program, or cause for his off-field social issues or concerns. In this day and age, there is so much coverage on-line or through social media, he could still have gotten a ton of exposure for whatever he wanted to get people in front of in terms of social injustices. But then he wouldn't have been able to play the victim or martyr card.
He essentially has become an activist that was once a football player, not a football player that is an activist. Personally, I am not even sure he is truly an activist, as it seems like he has looked to cash in on his causes and has been paid handsomely by Nike along the way. Whether an activist should be looking to or able to cash in is likely a different discussion.
As far as his "football abilities" go, that's something else where "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." As I have alluded to already in this thread, if Kaep all along wanted to: be a starter and get $20+ million a year, would not seriously entertain a back up role, and likely refused to take back up money, then he sort of made his own bed and has to lie in it. However, that further stokes the fire, spin, and narrative that he "sacrificed and stood up for a cause." To be clear, that is not a jab at people standing up for a cause, but it is a dig at CK for trying to play himself to be the aggrieved party when all of this could have been avoided if he went the more traditional route that unemployed quarterbacks take (accepting less money to get a short term contract, earn back a starting role, and then try to get a bigger starter's deal).
Chaka
Footballguy
Your interpretation of his shirt is what it is and I won't change that.
But why should he have to "conform" to that odd standard to play football? I don't think the "Employers may demand XYZ, from potential employees" argument would pass legal muster. It didn't in the first collusion case and I doubt it would in future cases which is probably why the league tried to get language preventing future labor claims into the injury waiver that they dropped on him just prior to his workout.
Who said football players can't be activists? Us, apparently. If deeply examined, or not even so deeply, the "Shut up and play" argument is more than a little shameful.
How about "Shut up and let him play"?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Most employers would demand employees do their jobs and earn their pay checks to perform the duties that they were hired for and be activists ON THEIR OWN TIME. As I just posted a few minutes ago, CK could have supported any causes he wanted away from game day, interviews, practice, etc. IMO, I don't think it is such a crazy notion to expect an NFL player to stick to football on the team's time and refrain from promoting products, causes, agendas, etc. when on the field, in the locker room, or while being interviewed.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I do not disagree with you, but he has only created more challenges for himself to "earn an NFL wage" if that is his true goal. And I think that might be the big rub I have. What is his objective here? I can see him joining many other NFL'ers who are active in the community for the benefit of whichever cause they hold dear. But to snub the Billionaires at their door seems problematic at getting back in the door. And I agree, from what I saw in the clips, from his physical skill set alone, I believe he should be on an NFL team. While I am not saying he is currently Top 10 Talent, he appears better than a high number of clipboard holders currently employed. But again, the NFL Business Machine wants good PR & Profits. I just think Kap created too much perspective of PR issues to warrant the $$ involved.
Chaka
Footballguy
I know it all started a long time ago but remember that Kaepernick did do everything quietly. He sat for the anthem without saying a word. He answered questions about it only when asked. When a marine suggested he kneel, instead of sit he did and continued to do everything quietly.
We politicized it, we made it loud, we made it a controversy. He quietly kneeled and did his job.
As far as his football demands. We don't know what they are and I think the narrative of $20 min/year and a starting job is unfairly being accepted as a reality. There are so many reasons those who wish to make Kaepernick look bad would push that narrative that we should probably let it die. The fact is there have been no statements from Kaepernick's camp about compensation or his expected role. It is wrong to keep pushing a narrative that has no supporting basis even if we parse our statements with "ifs" and "likelys".
He put up the workout and his resume is unquestionably good enough to be on a roster. I think the league should shut up and sign him already. My goodness, there will be an vocal outcry from an obnoxious minority of fans who will immediately go back to watching and attending games and purchasing merchandise. Just like those of us who support Kaepernick continue to watch, attend and purchase.
It's about football, let him play.
Chaka
Footballguy
Totally agree. I think it is pretty obvious that if Kaepernick is signed there will be zero negative impact. People will complain and continue to watch just as the people in Kaepernick's camp complain and continue to watch.
Frankly I think that fact is the strongest case for collusion. It's not about money for the NFL because there is no money at risk. Hell, a guy like Kaepernick in the league would probably lead to bigger ad-buys and TV contracts.
Chaka
Footballguy
The only thing he did on game day is kneel, just like other players continue to kneel and hold up fists etc.
Where do you draw the line on interviews? Gameday only or all interviews?
Todem
Footballguy
Unfortunately he has a circus around him. He is his own undoing.
I am sure he can play in the league. I don't think anyone questions that. But the bad PR he brings is just outweighing the football. That is the reality.
Is what it is.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
While we don't know what CK's salary demands are, the same logic works in reverse. When has he come out and said he just wants to play football and would welcome a short-term, league minimum (or low dollar) contract with incentives as a "prove it" deal, even if that means starting out as a back up or coming in to compete for a spot? Many guys that are currently on rosters as back ups have had to take a low dollar deal to get a chance and to be on a roster.
Similarly, when has he said he wants to leave the past in the past and just concentrate on only playing football? His tee shirt at his recent pro day and his interview after that doesn't exactly make it appear he is just about playing football. I am not saying the league is without fault (heck, there are plenty of things that they should be considered to be at fault with), but does anything that transpired lead people to believe that 1) CK is now agenda free and 2) he only wants to play football?
As far as interviews go, IMO, things that are game day or directly league related (ie required media sessions during the week) should be off limits. If a player wanted to do a private interview on a Tuesday not at the stadium that should be fair game. But a press conference right after the game should be considered on team / league time.
Chaka
Footballguy
We are the circus. We don't have to be the circus but we are.
And I don't think the circus is nearly as big and bad as it was perceived to be even a year ago.
Todem
Footballguy
I personally don't care if he played again. I have no issues at all with any of the "baggage". But yeah you are right. The owners though don't want to deal with it. That is why he remains unsigned. And quite frankly.....playing in the NFL is a privilege and not a right. If no team wants to sign him. Tough luck.
Like I said....is what it is.
Chaka
Footballguy
Deal with what? More eyeballs? More ad-buys?
If it's not about money, and it really doesn't seem to be, then what's it about? No specific coach/owner wants the extra media distraction? I can see that as a legitimate argument but if the league really wanted him in they would make a deal with someone.
Encumbrance
Footballguy
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Encumbrance
Footballguy
If you think that "we" is really a proxy for "the media" then you're not considering the potential for disconnect between one very large body of people and one, single select profession. Substituting "we" for "the media," simply because our consumption purports to guide their content is an error, in my opinion.
That's why it's called The Fourth Estate.
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This whole thing is about risk v reward. Sure, Kaep could show up and be a model teammate and employee. The media could, and probably would be very supportive and positive. The fan base at the end of the day wants a winner.
Or...
Kaepernick could show up and realizes he's got a ton of leverage and media exposure and decides football is not his total focus, being a good team member is not his top priority. Firing him becomes a potential political landmine. The locker room gets distracted. The fan base gets angry. Thats a very real risk, people can handwave it away all they want. If there is a better predictor of the future than the past, i've never heard of it.
And the other side is reward. Is Colin Kapernick three years away from football going to turn around a team in November and take them anywhere that matters? We've argued over his resume and I think we have to agree at best its got some serious question marks. At worst its got big red flags.
That isn't to say no one will ever give him a chance again. But pretending its a no lose situation and a no brainer... thats just not being realistic either. There are serious risks to a franchise and I can easily see the potential reward being calculated as middling.
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Chaka
Footballguy
Not, my words. I was responding based on another poster suggesting it may have been.
Chaka
Footballguy
The media caters to us. Much of the media, most perhaps, is no longer the Fourth Estate. They no longer simply report things that are news worthy, they report things they think will generate the most attention. If they think we want a Colin Kaepernick frenzy they'll chum the water and see what it attracts. If we don't consume that nonsense, they'll move on to something else they think/hope we want.
Chaka
Footballguy
Of course that is possible. But Kaepernick did not do that the last time around so I don't know why the expectation would be he will do it this time around.
Chaka
Footballguy
Yes. Is there anything that suggests he was not?
And he seems to be focused on playing football now too.
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