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QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (6 Viewers)
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-OZ-
Footballguy
An agreement to not participate in a criminal trial might not be allowed in a civil settlement.
of course the prosecutor could decide not to prosecute anyway.
Casting Couch
Footballguy
DW probably needs too go full Prince Andrew on this one. Out of court settle with all accusers without the admission of guilt.
dhockster
Footballguy
One thing that I think people tend to forget, and the media tends to underreport, is Deshaun doesn't control the settlement of his civil lawsuits. Deshaun AND the plaintiffs have to agree to a settlement. Of the 22 plaintiffs, there could be one or a couple who will not settle no matter how much the money is, they may just want their day in court to let everyone know what they think Deshaun did to them.
socrates
Footballguy
You could be right, but most often if you throw enough money their way, people will settle.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
And I would also argue that the fact that all 22 women didn't call the police after their massage with him to report a crime, means it's even less likely Watson did anything that wasn't consensual. If he forced his way/raped 22 women, you know at least some (if not most) would have called the police. I have always felt this was a money grab, and still do.
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Trying to gauge the temperature of the room in here....
let's pretend that DW would be an upgrade (in most cases a significant upgrade) to the team you root for....and that he faces no criminal charges.....and that he "settles" all 22 civil cases and that and that when he returns he plays as if "nothing ever happened"....and receives an 8 game suspension from the NFL....and it would cost your team 3 first round picks and maybe another couple picks/players....
would you want him to be the QB for your team and the new face of your franchise....?....
let's pretend that DW would be an upgrade (in most cases a significant upgrade) to the team you root for....and that he faces no criminal charges.....and that he "settles" all 22 civil cases and that and that when he returns he plays as if "nothing ever happened"....and receives an 8 game suspension from the NFL....and it would cost your team 3 first round picks and maybe another couple picks/players....
would you want him to be the QB for your team and the new face of your franchise....?....
No. For me it's more about the compensation (3 first round picks) than anything else. I have not followed this very closely but on the surface it seems very odd as to the way it has played out thus far. I really do think this is a he said/she said where both sides may very well think they are in the right. DW thinks what he did was consensual and the women think what he did was over the line. In cases like this it is very hard for me to know the right answer.
just curious....the fact that he "settles" (which he apparently he has already tried to do) instead of fighting (because as you say "he thinks he is in the right")....doesn't factor in for you as far as him being the face of your franchise moving forward....?...and I know the perceived "benefits" of settling....but those perceived benefits also come with some perceived consequences....
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Settling doesn't necessarily means he is admitting guilt. In today's world sometimes just moving on without being convicted of anything is much better than going to court and "winning". People believe what they want to believe. Going to court costs a lot of money. I have no doubt there are times when a settlement without confirming guilt or innocence is the least costly method to just end the situation and is the "right" thing to do when weighing all the costs/ramifications. It will blow over eventually and the shorter the time it is in the public limelight the quicker it will go away (kind of beyond that point with this situation though).
Birdie048
Footballguy
As a "Fan", I would be very unhappy for the 3 x 1st picks. I would say "NFW" to this. Too much for all the negative PR and potential future off-field issues he might carry with him. I don't see any team offering that kind of deal... maybe a 1st & 3rd in 2022 & 2023 2nd plus potentially a player? but this is no Hershel Walker move Houston is banking on!
ffmail4me
Footballguy
As a Washington fan he's my first choice, over Rodgers or Wilson (if they were even options for us.) I'd bet money we'll never hear a single thing about Watson off the field once this is over. Innocent or not, he's scared straight now. He was a model player/citizen before this, and I'm sure he will be afterwards. And he's a top 5 QB in the league, still in his prime, and that was playing for a train wreck of a franchise that seemed to always trade away what little talent it had. On a good NFL roster with legit weapons, holy cow his upside will be massive.
I also have to wonder about the part of him coming back and performing as if nothing ever happened....I know some athletes have done it before....like maybe Big Ben or whatever....but this has a different feel to it for me....not sure it just fades away and the reception is all puppies and rainbows....I think there is some psychological factors and what not that come into play here and don't just disappear over time...this cloud seems bigger then some of the other clouds players have had over their head....
plus an 8 game suspension...is basically half a season, so you are basically losing another season as a team with a stop gap backup for half a year...
plus an 8 game suspension...is basically half a season, so you are basically losing another season as a team with a stop gap backup for half a year...
bolded always gets me....how do you know this...?...I'm not saying there is but there could be plenty of other things we just haven't heard about....(would that surprise anybody if more stuff came out?)....and the whole time all these 22 incidents were "actually happening"....people probably thought he was a being model player/citizen then....and he wasn't....the giving back and doing stuff for your community doesn't get you extra cookies in your lunchbox.....many many players in all sports do that....and it is usually a management team that sets up and organizes that for them....all he does is approve checks being written and shows up for some stuff every once in awhile....that does not make you a model citizen/player....
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Cjw_55106
Footballguy
I understand what you are saying, but generally, any other "surprises" would have come out shortly after this did. Its just how people are. Once the gate opens, everything empties.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Agreed. However, if he truly thought of himself as innocent, I cant believe he would accept quietly sitting out an entire year and still facing discipline once the dust settles. You would think at some point, the NFLPA would step in and say this isnt right. IMO, he should be suspended or active. The way its going down, he will likely be punished twice. Currently by the team and later by the league.
feels like it kind of had to happen that way....team would have been scorched for acting like nothing was happening and just playing him....NFL would have wanted to have a resolution before handing down any type of suspension.....team and NFL probably worked together on this, agreeing for the team not to force the NFL's hand prematurely by putting him on the exempt list or whatever without all the info....
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Possibly thrice, if there are any legal penalties. Four times, if he fights it in court, loses & damages are awarded.
sure feels like he’ll be out of the league this year.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
I mean from the league's perspective, sure. That's why I mentioned the NFLPA. They should have definitely had a beef against it being handled this way.
I'm sorry but this post makes no sense to me. Watson not playing but continuing to get paid is a mutual decision by both him and the Texans, it's not punishment.
If it is truly a he said/she said situation with the current way the world is today I could totally see his lawyers/publicists/etc could have led him down this path. Regardless of what happened Watson is not going to look good even if these were consensual/paid escorts that are now going after money. Even paying for that type of thing isn't going to go over well in the court of public opinion. When you factor in the NFL handing out suspensions etc for hearsay or stuff that is he/she said his people could want him to be silent and gather all the facts. Since he was able to still get paid last year it gives him time to figure out whatever the best plan is moving forward.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You may have overlooked that the NFLPA is just about the weakest union in the country, and they will almost always side with ownership decisions when it comes to players who run afoul of 1. the law, and 2. (more importantly) public perception of unsavory circumstances.
Every time. IMO, the NFLPA will stay well away from anything to do with this one, and will not go to the mat for Watson whatsoever. To them it's a political time-bomb, and one best left alone. If Watson settles & gets suspended, and then this whole thing eventually goes away, no one will be happier than the NFLPA. They might not ever even comment on it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Exactly - perfectly stated. When best case scenario is, "he had a penchant for frequenting massage-hookers, but got too freaky with at least 20+ of them, triggering a legal response", then the court of public opinion will rarely be on his side.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Thanks and I really meant no offense, I think people have forgot some steps in how this unfolded.Cjw_55106 said:
Brief recap:
Watson asks for trade, says he won't ever play for Texans again. This stuff comes out. He lets it be known nothing changed on his end.
Texans would have likely dealt him last year but these accusations stuck them with him. When training camp opened it was a major story. What would Houston do and how would Watson react? If Houston tried to force Watson's hand could he really afford to roll over the $10.5M(the super bargain year of his contract) to 2022 and not get paid anything in 2021 while mounting legal fees are happening to him? We'll never know because Texans decided they had nothing to gain by trying to force his hand. They knew they were in a rebuild, did not want to risk an injury to Watson and as long as he never suits up for them again they can take the moral high ground. So by all appearances it looks like both parties came to an agreement were Watson would report to camp, be a good soldier, get paid, but never actually have to suit up in a game.
Will this be same agreement between both parties in 2022 when Watson's pay is $35m? We'll never know if he's dealt before then but my guess is yes it will be the same thing. Nothing really changed in that Watson still says he won't play for them again and if Houston feels they are in a rebuild they still have nothing to gain by him playing, risk injury, lose moral high ground.
A few people here have seemed to question Watson's sense of urgency to return to play and get this behind him. I'm sure he'd like to do both of those things but he's getting paid and that gives him luxury of time. And the really key part is he'll turn 27 at start of next season. With QB pay what it is and how QB's are aging it's not even a small exaggeration that his future on field earnings if he can come out of this somewhat cleanly and keep his body intact is going to be around the half a billion mark. Again not an exaggeration. To me it makes all the sense in the world for him to take his time and fight everything he can to try and get out of this as cleanly looking as he possibly can.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I think that’s the key. Ultimately, the NFL and its franchises are a business. Any team acquiring him is telling their fans they value winning over these issues.
the PR team is going to have to work hard to spin this in a way acceptable to fans. They will lose some fans.
i wouldn’t trade for him (Not that it’s really an option in the division anyway)
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He was paid to sit out in 2021 (which was what he wanted, not to play for Houston)- so not sure that's any huge punishment, especially if he is guilty of what he's being accused of.Cjw_55106 said:
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You'd be surprised by the number of players to which playing in the NFL is just a job.ffmail4me said:
ffmail4me
Footballguy
I guess I would be. But QB is one of the more glamorous positions, so while maybe lineman don't love every snap, I'd think the QBs would really love their job. But hey, I never played pee wee football much less professional, what the hell do I know?
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I played with a guy in high school (baseball) and he went to a D1 baseball school to play. He ended up quitting after a couple years because he said the game was no fun anymore because of the work/atmosphere/cutthroat business type of goings on. It sucked the fun right out of it.
I have no doubt at the pro level it is even worse and it becomes a job just like any other job that you can get to the point of dreading going to. We see it as glamour and fun and so much money that it has to be great. When you are in it I am sure it has a much different feel.
BigJim®
Footballguy
Yeah, I'd have to look back at prior reports, but I'm not sure it is accurate to say they mutually agreed, and that's that. I seem to recall some suggestion that part of that 'agreement' was Houston using efforts to trade him out of Houston, and some risk he could put Houston's feet to the fire demanding to play.I guess I would be. But QB is one of the more glamorous positions, so while maybe lineman don't love every snap, I'd think the QBs would really love their job. But hey, I never played pee wee football much less professional, what the hell do I know?
SwampDawg
Footballguy
So with Houston still claiming they want full price in a trade, the civil suits not resolved yet and teams soon signing players and then drafting what is Houston going to do with we get to training camp and he still isn't traded? Are they going to drastically reduce the trade price? I can't see how they bring him back but also can't see paying him to be a healthy scratch all year again while they trot Mills out each week.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Not sure they will pay him again to sit either. The criminal portion of this debacle hasn't been resolved, let alone the civil part. Even the best case scenario where both get resolved I can see him getting a lengthy suspension for 2022.
dhockster
Footballguy
The reality is the Texans are going to publicly state they want full price until they actually get a reasonable offer for Deshaun that is not full price but maybe 70 cents on the dollar. At that point, I think they will make the deal. The unknown is if the criminal complaints are dismissed with no charges before the draft, will you get several teams in competition to trade for Deshaun who Deshaun is willing to play for? If that happens, then I think Deshaun gets traded before the draft. If not, then I think he will be on the Texans until at least the Trade deadline during the 2022 season. Trading Deshaun after the draft during the offseason is the worst time for the Texans to trade him, because most teams have most of their cap room used up (and thus unable to take on Deshaun's cap figure), and the compensation you would get in return in the form of draft picks, will now be a year further off in the future and more uncertain due to draft positions not being known.
imo....HOU will be stuck with this guy....and will have to figure out what they want to do....his legal stuff isn't going to be resolved any time soon....and even if it is, I don't think many teams want a guy with his baggage, that contract, giving up that draft capital, and no idea what kind of suspension the NFL is going to pass down....you would think a team would want to know ALL of that stuff prior to pulling the trigger on a deal....
and I think a huge factor will also be if DW is willing to basically tear up his contract and take less money....you would think he would right?.....if it meant "moving on" from all this....but something tells me he might not be willing to do that....you would think that this "situation" would put a pretty big dent in his true value.....think of it as a car that has a huge dent in it that cannot be fixed....I am also of the opinion that I would be concerned about his ability to return to the somewhat "elite" QB status he had....I'm not sure he will be able to deal with all the "pressure" so to speak of what he has been through and put the same product on the field when he returns....as a team dealing for him, there is no guarantee you get the "same" Watson he was before all this...
and I think a huge factor will also be if DW is willing to basically tear up his contract and take less money....you would think he would right?.....if it meant "moving on" from all this....but something tells me he might not be willing to do that....you would think that this "situation" would put a pretty big dent in his true value.....think of it as a car that has a huge dent in it that cannot be fixed....I am also of the opinion that I would be concerned about his ability to return to the somewhat "elite" QB status he had....I'm not sure he will be able to deal with all the "pressure" so to speak of what he has been through and put the same product on the field when he returns....as a team dealing for him, there is no guarantee you get the "same" Watson he was before all this...
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I don't know what Houston is more guilty of:
A) Cutting off ones nose to spite ones face
B) Falling for the Sunk Cost Fallacy
A) Cutting off ones nose to spite ones face
B) Falling for the Sunk Cost Fallacy
