QB Deshaun Watson, CLE (6 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

Right. If he was going to the Saints, he woulda been gone already.

Falcons have to rework Watson deal, and get the Ryan deal done.

Looking forward to the info guys saying, one the dal is done, that they knew it was a done deal after Ryn moved his deadline backs.

Any team has to be under the cap at the time they acquire a new player WITH the new player added in. If ATL needs to get Watson to rework his deal to get under the cap at the time of the trade, he would have to do that before the trade was completed, not after. That would mean HOU would be the one eating money on top of losing Watson. The easiest way to accomplish that is to get the Texans to convert a chunk of his $35 million salary this year into bonus money. But Houston would pay that, not Atlanta. That would lower Watson's cap number for this year (but would increase it across the remainder of the contract). If the Texans don't so that, the Falcons have the option to do the same thing once he got there (but that wouldn't help them get under the cap at the time he is traded).

Watson will want to do this no matter which team does it, as it would reduce the amount of money he would lose should he get suspended. Suspensions will take away 1/17 of a player's SALARY while he is suspended. If the huge chunk of his salary is converted to a bonus, he won't lose much money if he is suspended.

ATL could give Watson a new deal once he got on the team (which would help them roster a more competitive team this year), but again, that wouldn't help them to initially get him on the team under the cap.

 

[massraider]

Was that something Matt Ryan had to agree to?

Ryan also has a no-trade clause, yes.

 

[massraider]

Any team has to be under the cap at the time they acquire a new player WITH the new player added in. If ATL needs to get


Watson


to rework his deal to get under the cap at the time of the trade, he would have to do that before the trade was completed, not after. That would mean HOU would be the one eating money on top of losing


Watson


. The easiest way to accomplish that is to get the Texans to convert a chunk of his $35 million salary this year into bonus money. But Houston would pay that, not Atlanta. That would lower


Watson


's cap number for this year (but would increase it across the remainder of the contract). If the Texans don't so that, the Falcons have the option to do the same thing once he got there (but that wouldn't help them get under the cap at the time he is traded).
 


Watson


will want to do this no matter which team does it, as it would reduce the amount of money he would lose should he get suspended. Suspensions will take away 1/17 of a player's SALARY while he is suspended. If the huge chunk of his salary is converted to a bonus, he won't lose much money if he is suspended.

ATL could give


Watson


a new deal once he got on the team (which would help them roster a more competitive team this year), but again, that wouldn't help them to initially get him on the team under the cap.

They can convert salary to a bonus, and make it payable in three days. 

EDIT: I think.

 

[Anarchy99]

They can convert salary to a bonus, and make it payable in three days. 

EDIT: I think.

You need to flesh this out more. Who is they (ie, which team, and which player). The Falcons just pushed back a bonus due to Ryan for three days (with the hopes that they could trade him before then, thus sticking his new team with the bonus). Ryan already had a bonus due.

I am not sure that a team can convert salary to a bonus and play with the date as to get when that happens to get the new team to pay it. If teams could do that, every team would do that.

 

[massraider]

I am not sure that a team can convert salary to a bonus and play with the date as to get when that happens to get the new team to pay it. If teams could do that, every team would do that.

Think about what you just said here.

The Falcons moved the date on a roster bonus, so the new team pay it. 

But the Texans cannot change Watson's contract and then trade him? Umm, I think they can.

 

[massraider]

Houston converts 30 mill to a roster bonus, guaranteed, payable on March 24. Trades him to ATL.

ATL converts the roster bonus to a signing bonus, spreading the money out. Done.

 

[Buckna]

Looking forward to the info guys saying, one the deal is done, that they knew it was a done deal after Ryan moved his deadline backs.

FWIW, Schefter already tweeted a few hours ago “Just a reminder: Falcons and Matt Ryan agreed to push back the $7.5 million roster bonus due to the Atlanta QB today until Tuesday, giving Ryan four extra days to vet his trade options, per sources.”

He didn’t connect it to Watson’s decision with words but posted a picture of Watson & Ryan shaking hands after a game.

 

[menobrown]

At this point, it's clear that New Orleans is just Watson's fallback and he's chosen Atlanta. The Saints can sign him right now, while the Falcons still have to make some tricky moves to get Watson on board.

Right. If he was going to the Saints, he woulda been gone already.

It's possible he may have chosen or wants to go to Atlanta but I've been wondering for a few days if one of the holdups was Watson wants his new team to give him some more money. I have heard this morning that is in fact going on, whether or not that's the holdup I don't know, but he's wanting his contract sweetened.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It's possible he may have chosen or wants to go to Atlanta but I've been wondering for a few days if one of the holdups was Watson wants his new team to give him some more money. I have heard this morning that is in fact going on, whether or not that's the holdup I don't know, but he's wanting his contract sweetened.

Does he get to keep the towels from the hotel as well? 

This guy really likes being wined and dined, despite the outcry from 22 women this man has no shame acting like that's not happening and decides to just go on a book tour. What city is he coming to next?

 

[menobrown]

Does he get to keep the towels from the hotel as well? 

This guy really likes being wined and dined, despite the outcry from 22 woman this man has no shame in trying to act like that's not happening and just go on a book tour. What city is he coming to next?

I hear you and when you break it down from crying over a contract he's never even played a down on yet, getting paid for nothing for a year and of course the 22 allegations to now going on a FA tour and wanting his contract sweetened it leaves you thinking stuff like "the gall of this guy", entitled, etc, etc.

But then you realize because he's really good at football he's going to get everything he wants.

Like I said in a post here the other day, this is the greatest player empowerment move I can recall any player making ever and I meant in any sport.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Baker Mayfield-Jimmy G

The differences between the two of them and also when Watson was being talked about as Tua's replacement. 

This also happened: Last season as head coach, Brian Flores began to question whether Tua Tagovailoa could develop as expected, and the quarterback learned through the media and his agents that the Dolphins were actively considering trading for Deshaun Watson.

And this drama bled into the season. So every Wednesday, Tagovailoa had to answer questions about a possible trade when he spoke to reporters.

And he had to be in the locker room with teammates who knew he might be with the team the next day. Or he might not be

Did Tagovailoa complain publicly? Did he text reporters to say he felt insulted?

Did he ask to be traded so he could escape an uncomfortable situation?

No.

 

[babydemon90]

FWIW, while he's good at football....he's not in the Aaron Rodger/Ben Roethlisberger mold of QB's that always have winning seasons.  Houston still had a 4 win season with him at the helm. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

FWIW, while he's good at football....he's not in the Aaron Rodger/Ben Roethlisberger mold of QB's that always have winning seasons.  Houston still had a 4 win season with him at the helm. 

I would like to see someone break down those games. The Texans started 0-4 and eventually lose 5 straight to close the season. 

-I just glanced at the Week 1 box score and saw that Houston trailed KC 24-7 going into the 4th Q. Watson didn't clear 300 yds passing in any of those first 4 losses to start the season. I don't have the time to break them all down but it's interesting to see how much of his numbers that season were in garbage time basically.  

 

[Anarchy99]

FWIW, while he's good at football....he's not in the Aaron Rodger/Ben Roethlisberger mold of QB's that always have winning seasons.  Houston still had a 4 win season with him at the helm. 

Did the Packers or Steelers give away an elite talent like Hopkins for a moldy sandwich and a half-eaten bag of chips? Did the Texans have the best defense in the league like Ben did? Sure, Roethlisberger went 13-0 as a rookie. But by Year 3 he went 7-8 as the starter. Rodgers went 6-10 his first season as a starter.

Watson took over a team that had allowed almost twice as many points as the one Big Ben was on. The Texans went from 4-12 to 11-5 in his Watson's first full season as a starter. When they went 4-12 a couple of years ago, that team allowed 10+ ppg more than the team that went 11-5. Was Watson responsible for the defense as well as the offense?

The Texans have been one of the most incompetent franchises in the league in terms of ownership, administration, management, decision-making, and coaching. They've had 3 coaches since Watson came to town. Is Watson responsible for the coaching changes and poor roster moves as well?

People can flame away at his off-field stuff, but his play has very good so far. You mentioned Rodgers. Watson has the same career passer rating as Aaron does.

 

[GregR]

It's possible he may have chosen or wants to go to Atlanta but I've been wondering for a few days if one of the holdups was Watson wants his new team to give him some more money. I have heard this morning that is in fact going on, whether or not that's the holdup I don't know, but he's wanting his contract sweetened.

Just listened to one of the announcers on Houston sports radio railing on the Watson camp. I don't have links, this is just what was said.  Apparently Watson's camp have said the reason they turned down Carolina was because they wanted the remaining years of his contract guaranteed and Carolina wasn't willing to do that.

What had the announcer upset was that he said no on believed he was going to go to Carolina once New Orleans and Atlanta were in the mix. So they were negotiating with Carolina in bad faith, just to be able to take anything Carolina was willing to do contract-wise, and go use it as leverage to try to get the Saints and Falcons to do the same.

Also, they apparently believe the Saints is just a fallback position at this point and he's going to pick Atlanta barring something going wrong. Again, no source or link, maybe just their opinion.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Just listened to one of the announcers on Houston sports radio railing on the Watson camp. I don't have links, this is just what was said.  Apparently Watson's camp have said the reason they turned down Carolina was because they wanted the remaining years of his contract guaranteed and Carolina wasn't willing to do that.

What had the announcer upset was that he said no on believed he was going to go to Carolina once New Orleans and Atlanta were in the mix. So they were negotiating with Carolina in bad faith, just to be able to take anything Carolina was willing to do contract-wise, and go use it as leverage to try to get the Saints and Falcons to do the same.

Also, they apparently believe the Saints is just a fallback position at this point and he's going to pick Atlanta barring something going wrong. Again, no source or link, maybe just their opinion.

But at the same time, it would make sense for any team acquiring Watson to restructure his contract at a minimum.  He has a $35M base salary in 2022.  

For a team like the Falcons, who’ll eat $40M in dead cap just to trade Matt Ryan, absorbing a $35M hit to their cap in 2022 in salary probably requires significant restructuring just to be able to make this work.

And with 4 years left on his deal with salaries in 2023-2025 lower than what he’ll earn in 2022, it does make sense for Watson to take this opportunity now to have the contract taken care of and out of way as he embarks on the rest of his career with a new team versus having this subject come up 2 years from now.

 

[Capella]

Colts absolutely must be all over Matt Ryan if this goes down. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Just listened to one of the announcers on Houston sports radio railing on the Watson camp. I don't have links, this is just what was said.  Apparently Watson's camp have said the reason they turned down Carolina was because they wanted the remaining years of his contract guaranteed and Carolina wasn't willing to do that.

What had the announcer upset was that he said no on believed he was going to go to Carolina once New Orleans and Atlanta were in the mix. So they were negotiating with Carolina in bad faith, just to be able to take anything Carolina was willing to do contract-wise, and go use it as leverage to try to get the Saints and Falcons to do the same.

Also, they apparently believe the Saints is just a fallback position at this point and he's going to pick Atlanta barring something going wrong. Again, no source or link, maybe just their opinion.

And if I’m Watson’s team, I’m doing exactly the same thing. I don’t see it as “bad faith” at all.

That sounds like sour grapes. 

Any agent/team is going to use the other teams offers as leverage in negotiation.  That’s just how it works. Especially in a situation where 3 teams in the same division are making competing offers in a bidding war.

The only bit I don’t like is the “he’s gonna sleep on it” and then “he might take the weekend to decide”.

just get it done. Stop holding up FA for so many teams/players, and pick a team already. This delay is wholly unnecessary.

But the contract bidding war stuff, and how CAR might feel about it or if they were used as a tool? Happens all the time. No bad faith there, just smart business. 

 

[massraider]

Colts absolutely must be all over Matt Ryan if this goes down. 

I hope so, cause I don't like the Colts. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I hope so, cause I don't like the Colts. 

I don’t see why they’d take on that massive contract for such an obviously declining asset. 

 

[Capella]

I don’t see why they’d take on that massive contract for such an obviously declining asset. 

They have a good team and he pretty clearly would be the best QB available. Who else would they start? Would likely not cost much in terms of draft picks. 

 

[ghostguy123]

just get it done. Stop holding up FA for so many teams/players, and pick a team already. This delay is wholly unnecessary.

The Falcons would have to literally make a few moves otherwise they cant trade for Watson.

If Watson commits right now it puts everyone in a bad spot, especially atlanta because it kills any leverage they have in trades and also contract restructurings.

 

[Anarchy99]

I don’t see why they’d take on that massive contract for such an obviously declining asset. 

They can always redo his contract and get him to take less total dollars by giving him more upfront or guaranteed. 

 

[ghostguy123]

Matt Ryan's contract might need the Brock Osweiller treatment where they give him away plus give a draft pick to make it happen.  Unfortunately they are about to give away all their picks for Watson so who knows.

Ryan may have to go to Houston in this deal and then they figure it out from there.

 

[ghostguy123]

I will say this is a fascinating process and should make for a fun 30 for 30

 

[Anarchy99]

The Falcons would have to literally make a few moves otherwise they cant trade for Watson.

If Watson commits right now it puts everyone in a bad spot, especially atlanta because it kills any leverage they have in trades and also contract restructurings.

Not necessarily. Teams have the right to convert salary dollars to bonus money all on their own. No permission or negotiating required. It frees up cap space but pushes the cap hit into the future. 

 

[ghostguy123]

Not necessarily. Teams have the right to convert salary dollars to bonus money all on their own. No permission or negotiating required. It frees up cap space but pushes the cap hit into the future. 

Perhaps.

Now picture players they HAVE to trade and how that could hurt leverage.  Theres a LOT to this.  Not as simple as Watson just choosing and it being done

 

[massraider]

I don’t see why they’d take on that massive contract for such an obviously declining asset. 

Matt Ryan only has a bloated contract for the Falcons, caught they kept restructuring

For any other team:

2022: 23.75 mill 

2023: 27 mill

Matt Ryan is a bargain for everyone except ATL

 

[Buckna]

If Ryan is traded he's got two years left on his deal and this is what the acquiring team takes on:

2022 - $16.25MM salary but not guaranteed, a 7.5MM guaranteed bonus

2023 - $20.5MM salary but not guaranteed, a 7.5MM bonus that guarantees next league year

An acquiring team could convert his bonus and part of his 2022 salary to signing bonuses if they wanted to. Next year would basically be an option year, cut him if he doesn't work out or try to work out an extension if he does. Not cheap, but not overly expensive IMO.

 

[massraider]

I get why the Colts do it, but looking at the AFC right now, it would be a move for Reich and Ballard to keep their jobs. They shouldn't do it. I hope they trade their 23 1st. 

 

[Capella]

Matt Ryan only has a bloated contract for the Falcons, caught they kept restructuring

For any other team:

2022: 23.75 mill 

2023: 27 mill

Matt Ryan is a bargain for everyone except ATL

Colts have top-10 team with this guy. 

 

[massraider]

Colts have top-10 team with this guy. 

Yes. But the top 9 are in the AFC.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Yes. But the top 9 are in the AFC.

But half their division is hot garbage and the only competition starts Ryan Tannehill.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

They can always redo his contract and get him to take less total dollars by giving him more upfront or guaranteed. 

True, but it was more the declining part.

I guess he’s better than the nothing they have right now. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Ryan may have to go to Houston in this deal and then they figure it out from there.

I’ve seen some writers opine that Ryan might also retire if that comes to pass. 

 

[menobrown]

Matt Ryan's contract might need the Brock Osweiller treatment where they give him away plus give a draft pick to make it happen.  Unfortunately they are about to give away all their picks for Watson so who knows.

Ryan may have to go to Houston in this deal and then they figure it out from there.

Nah, Ryan's got a real market, they'll be able to move him with relative ease.

I think Colts want him, Browns might, Josina Anderson saying SEA is interested in him or Baker.

 

[travdogg]

Colts have top-10 team with this guy. 

They'd be in 8-12 range for sure. 

I think Ryan is better than Wentz, but probably not as good as Rivers in 2020. 

Nah, Ryan's got a real market, they'll be able to move him with relative ease.

I think Colts want him, Browns might, Josina Anderson saying SEA is interested in him or Baker.

Agreed, Ryan might even fetch a 1st rounder. Or multiple day 2 picks at worst.

 

[ghostguy123]

I will be more than shocked if Ryan fetches a 1st.  A future 2nd max IMO.

Shouldn't even be that much

 

[menobrown]

Agreed, Ryan might even fetch a 1st rounder. Or multiple day 2 picks at worst.

I don't think he'll get a ton back and part of that is Atlanta won't be auctioning him,  I feel pretty strongly they will just send him where he wants to go and my guess is they already got parameters worked out.

 

[massraider]

I don't think he'll get a ton back and part of that is Atlanta won't be auctioning him,  I feel pretty strongly they will just send him where he wants to go and my guess is they already got parameters worked out.

My guess: if they did, Watson and Will Fuller would be in ATL right now giving a press conference. 

 

[menobrown]

Feeling like if it's not Atlanta at this point people are going to be shocked. I made a trade offers yesterday for Kyle Pitts yesterday in a league I have Watson,  was told he's untouchable. I don't believe in untouchable, but can't blame them.

@JosinaAnderson

·

2m

I’m told Falcons brass has ‘keys to the city’ to bring a trade home with Deshaun Watson & would be ‘surprised’ if that doesn’t occur based on strong mutual interest & conversations. Separately I expect Watson to receive new money in a restructured contract once any trade is done.

 

[massraider]

I think ATL should get two 2s or a 1st.

Whoever trades for him, doesn't have a QB right now, and is worried about their job. Ryan is definitely worth a 1st, if you think he's still got something. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't think he'll get a ton back and part of that is Atlanta won't be auctioning him,  I feel pretty strongly they will just send him where he wants to go and my guess is they already got parameters worked out.

And worth noting: Ryan hasn’t tweeted out a vague cryptic bitter “fare thee well Atlanta, I’ve always loved you” tweet.

I’m just sayin. 

 

[menobrown]

I will be more than shocked if Ryan fetches a 1st.  A future 2nd max IMO.

Shouldn't even be that much

I'm with you on this one.

I'm thinking either a second or a conditional third that can turn into a second.

 

[Buckna]

My guess is a 2nd that turns into a 1st based on some condition like making the playoffs or something.

Ryan played pretty well the first half of the season, did his play fall off or did no longer having Julio and then losing Ridley after week 8 just kill the offense? Pitts and Russell Gage were the only men left standing by then and they were using a hybrid WR for their running game.

 

[Shawnky]

I can’t imagine anyone trading a 1st for Ryan.  They should be fired if so. 

 

[Anarchy99]

I can’t imagine anyone trading a 1st for Ryan.  They should be fired if so. 

Would win now teams rather have Wentz or Ryan?

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Would win now teams rather have Wentz or Ryan?

this was what I was mauling, but still don't see it for a first rounder. I am absolutely discounting how desperate teams can get so anything can happen in the next few days, but looking at this logically:

teams that have to get a QB between now and start of season: Seattle, Indy, maybe Cleveland, Houston assuming Mills isn't their guy and i don't think they think that.

teams that probably doesn't have its QB of the future in their current roster: maybe Cleveland, New Orleans, Carolina, PIttsburgh, NY Giants.

only Cleveland stands out as a win now team and they don't look like a good fit for Ryan. Maybe Pittsburgh, but are they built to win in the next year or two? i can see Pitt wanting him on the cheap, like these other teams, but a first seems like a reach. Washington took on that dumb big contract already, so it would be crazy to even consider they would approach any deals for a QB at that price.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Starting to think Deshaun Watson is invincible. Quit on his team after he didn't like how management treated him and the moves they made. Skated through 20+ allegations of sexual misconduct from women. And fans are still begging for their team to sign him. Impressive.

https://twitter.com/Football_Guys/status/1504897691993755653?s=20&t=17onWJ19lBnB1528HC1eAw
 

 

[Anarchy99]

https://twitter.com/Football_Guys/status/1504897691993755653?s=20&t=17onWJ19lBnB1528HC1eAw
 

His career passer rating is the same as Aaron Rodgers (tied for second best all time). He may be a creeper, a diva, and a quitter. But he can play at a high level.