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QB J.J. McCarthy, MIN (8 Viewers)

@NFLPlus
J.J. McCarthy is the first player since Cam Newton with 2+ passing TD and 1+ rushing TD in his NFL debut

All 3 of those touchdowns have come in the 4th quarter

@jjmccarthy09 | #SKOL
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J.J. McCarthy is the first starting QB with a 10+ point 4th quarter comeback in his NFL debut since Steve Young in 1985

He is the only such QB since 1950 to do so on the road

@jjmccarthy09 | #SKOL
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Jordan Schultz
It didn’t click right away for J.J. McCarthy and the #Vikings’ offense, but he really hung in there and delivered several clutch throws, while showcasing his rare athleticism.

McCarthy is just 22, coming off two knee surgeries and hadn’t played competitive football in 21 months. Surely there will be a learning curve — but after tonight’s 27-24 win over the #Bears, there’s a lot for Kevin O’Connell and his staff to be encouraged by.
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Ed Werder
Per ESPN Research, Vikings QB J.J. McCarthy is the first player in NFL history to account for 3 TD in the 4th quarter of his NFL debut.
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That was a fascinating dichotomy of the 2 QBs last night. Williams started off red hot and after the first quarter I was prepared to admit my misjudgment about him, while McCarthy had a deer-in-the-headlights look and appeared to be in way over his head.

Then the game progressed and we saw both guys reverting to form. Williams fell back into his former form, holding the ball too long while he waited for his WRs to be open before he threw, playing out of system and misreading the D while McCarthy seemed to settle in, get comfortable and let his skills shine. You could almost literally see the game get slower for McCarthy in the second half.

Really really interesting game to watch.
 
Faust said:
@Vikings
None of this happens without 9️⃣

@jjmccarthy09
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Jordan Reid
QB development is a beautiful thing to watch when the infrastructure of teams are on the same page and fully embrace it. We saw it unfold in real time with JJ McCarthy. The ability to overcome in-game adversity was huge.

He was absolute nails in the 4th quarter.
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I’m sitting in front of my nerd screen and I want to run through a wall for O’Connell. Can only imagine what the players feel like.
 
Last edited:
zamboni said:
Faust said:
@Vikings
None of this happens without 9️⃣

@jjmccarthy09
Click to expand...

Jordan Reid
QB development is a beautiful thing to watch when the infrastructure of teams are on the same page and fully embrace it. We saw it unfold in real time with JJ McCarthy. The ability to overcome in-game adversity was huge.

He was absolute nails in the 4th quarter.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I’m sitting behind my nerd screen and I want to run through a wall for O’Connell. Can only imagine what the players feel like.
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I didn’t realize he’d been wearing the C.

Man. That video’s got me fired up and I’m not even a Vikings fan. After almost the entire 1st half I was wondering if the team had Cousins on speed dial.

lol
 
Bronco Billy said:
That was a fascinating dichotomy of the 2 QBs last night. Williams started off red hot and after the first quarter I was prepared to admit my misjudgment about him, while McCarthy had a deer-in-the-headlights look and appeared to be in way over his head.

Then the game progressed and we saw both guys reverting to form. Williams fell back into his former form, holding the ball too long while he waited for his WRs to be open before he threw, playing out of system and misreading the D while McCarthy seemed to settle in, get comfortable and let his skills shine. You could almost literally see the game get slower for McCarthy in the second half.

Really really interesting game to watch.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was like that pic-6 unlocked Godzilla from the iceberg!
 
Crazy to see him now in the range of the top 12 this week and going forward after how the first 3 quarters looked. As the #3 on my bench in fantasy, I love it, but not confident in it until I see a few more games.
 
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
 
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
We are going to find out because they play GB & Detroit twice each. Just surmising there will be weeks where they are down 20 going into the 4th quarter.
Chicago is not a good team. IMHO
 
shadrap said:
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
We are going to find out because they play GB & Detroit twice each. Just surmising there will be weeks where they are down 20 going into the 4th quarter.
Chicago is not a good team. IMHO
Click to expand...

I think Detroit is a little different than the precision fun and gun that we saw last year and Minnesota doesn't have to play to their tempo if Detroit turns out to be different than I think they'll be. Minnesota can take the air out of the ball if they want.

I also think that you're underestimating Minnesota, whose trenches are vastly improved and who suffered their losses to Detroit in part because they got beat up front. The games are going to be much tighter, IMO.
 
Just a little bit of caution might be warranted. Yeah, JJ came through, but it wouldn't have taken much for this thread to turn the other way.

I believe Chicago was missing both starting CBs and had in-game injuries on top of that. Lots to be determined yet.
 
Football Jones said:
Just a little bit of caution might be warranted. Yeah, JJ came through, but it wouldn't have taken much for this thread to turn the other way.

I believe Chicago was missing both starting CBs and had in-game injuries on top of that. Lots to be determined yet.
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And you had 3/4 quarters that were not pretty. A long road ahead, but happy for JJ that he got the story book ending in game one.
 
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
I think that was the gameplan for game 1, on MNF, in his first start. Then they got down and the training wheels came off.

I think his FF prospects are sky high going forward. He showed well - no need to hide him any more.
 
Football Jones said:
Just a little bit of caution might be warranted. Yeah, JJ came through, but it wouldn't have taken much for this thread to turn the other way.

I believe Chicago was missing both starting CBs and had in-game injuries on top of that. Lots to be determined yet.
Click to expand...
No Darrisaw or Addison for MN either. The O-line was not solid. But yet they overcame. Chicago did not.
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
I think that was the gameplan for game 1, on MNF, in his first start. Then they got down and the training wheels came off.

I think his FF prospects are sky high going forward. He showed well - no need to hide him any more.
Click to expand...

Sure. We disagree then. I should never underestimate an NFL coach's drive to have the QB fit his system come to fruition but O'Connell was pretty specific in print recently (and a bunch of other people sort of attested to his belief) that the NFL is doing a lousy job of developing QBs and that it needs to be a process that isn't, as Waldman complains about, akin to flash frying a steak but rather one that is conscious of incremental steps and human capability. He thinks is should be slower. JJ has indeed already sat a year in meetings and in preparation, but now he's got to physically do it. The way Minnesota has built their team is evidence not of a fast breaking L.A. Laker-style team, but more of slow-it-down and control things before the get too hectic Celtics style. That's my analogy. I think you'll find a run/pass distribution that is pretty even when in neutral situations.
 
rockaction said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
I think that was the gameplan for game 1, on MNF, in his first start. Then they got down and the training wheels came off.

I think his FF prospects are sky high going forward. He showed well - no need to hide him any more.
Click to expand...

Sure. We disagree then. I should never underestimate an NFL coach's drive to have the QB fit his system come to fruition but O'Connell was pretty specific in print recently (and a bunch of other people sort of attested to his belief) that the NFL is doing a lousy job of developing QBs and that it needs to be a process that isn't, as Waldman complains about, akin to flash frying a steak but rather one that is conscious of incremental steps and human capability. He thinks is should be slower. JJ has indeed already sat a year in meetings and in preparation, but now he's got to physically do it. The way Minnesota has built their team is evidence not of a fast breaking L.A. Laker-style team, but more of slow-it-down and control things before the get too hectic Celtics style. That's my analogy. I think you'll find a run/pass distribution that is pretty even when in neutral situations.
Click to expand...
Ok, well we’ll see.

I liked what I saw in the passing game when they opened it up. I don’t doubt they’ll run the ball, but I also don’t see them ignoring JJ & Hock. And when Addison comes back I’m expecting even more.

Week 1. Time will tell which of us is right. Maybe it’ll be somewhere in the middle. You sound awfully sure of yourself, which is fine. We can all have our takes.

But JJM showed what he could do last night and KOC isn’t exactly shy about using his QBs to move the rock in the air. I look forward to revisiting this topic throughout the season. If there’s crow to be eaten I won’t avoid that. Kid’s got a live arm though - anyone with eyes saw that last night.
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
rockaction said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
I think that was the gameplan for game 1, on MNF, in his first start. Then they got down and the training wheels came off.

I think his FF prospects are sky high going forward. He showed well - no need to hide him any more.
Click to expand...

Sure. We disagree then. I should never underestimate an NFL coach's drive to have the QB fit his system come to fruition but O'Connell was pretty specific in print recently (and a bunch of other people sort of attested to his belief) that the NFL is doing a lousy job of developing QBs and that it needs to be a process that isn't, as Waldman complains about, akin to flash frying a steak but rather one that is conscious of incremental steps and human capability. He thinks is should be slower. JJ has indeed already sat a year in meetings and in preparation, but now he's got to physically do it. The way Minnesota has built their team is evidence not of a fast breaking L.A. Laker-style team, but more of slow-it-down and control things before the get too hectic Celtics style. That's my analogy. I think you'll find a run/pass distribution that is pretty even when in neutral situations.
Click to expand...
Ok, well we’ll see.

I liked what I saw in the passing game when they opened it up. I don’t doubt they’ll run the ball, but I also don’t see them ignoring JJ & Hock. And when Addison comes back I’m expecting even more.

Week 1. Time will tell which of us is right. Maybe it’ll be somewhere in the middle. You sound awfully sure of yourself, which is fine. We can all have our takes.

But JJM showed what he could do last night and KOC isn’t exactly shy about using his QBs to move the rock in the air. I look forward to revisiting this topic throughout the season. If there’s crow to be eaten I won’t avoid that. Kid’s got a live arm though - anyone with eyes saw that last night.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'm none too sure of anything. I've just got a take with what I think is the best evidence I can marshall. I don't really trust anything these guys say or do if it's public and transparent. They're paranoid liars—almost all of them. So I'm pretty darn uncertain about anything I'm saying in Week One about intent or motive. I just don't know how these guys are really going to approach things. Right now, I totally feel like I'm holding the oxygen bag that Aaron Glenn sent up Braelon Allen's keester. It was Breece in every crucial moment yesterday, and it was that way from the jump, really. He must have known Breece was healthy in camp.

So, yeah, another reminder that I have no idea about their intentions. Like I said in another thread, all the guys were laughing at Nathan Jahnke when he said he was fading Bowers because he thought Gum-Chewing Pete would reduce his snaps. Sure enough, Pete did and those analysts weren't laughing yesterday.

So we'll see. I'm trying to read tea leaves. Could be wrong.
 
rockaction said:
They're paranoid liars—almost all of them
Click to expand...
Sounds like something an NFL coach might say.
:oldunsure:






:lol:
rockaction said:
Like I said in another thread, all the guys were laughing at Nathan Jahnke when he said he was fading Bowers because he thought Gum-Chewing Pete would reduce his snaps
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I was saying this all preseason. Had McBride firmly as my TE1 and was very concerned since it was basically an entirely new team and coaching staff around him, with a big investment at RB.

I also said “Pete Carroll is where talented TEs go to die”.
:shrug:
 
I'm betting on the KOC dust being sprinkled on him now, I was critical of his talent which I still think is sus but seeing is believing. Weapons, dome, can run a little, whats not to love.

If we redrafted today, he goes in front of Maye, and probably NIx.
 
JJ at Michigan was prone to some really bad throws. I think the Alabama playoff game he throw an interception or what should have been an interception on the first pass of the game. But he’s heavily invested in meditation and does seem extremely cool under all situations. He’s excitable and full of emotion be he works really hard to keep his head clear.
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Smack Tripper said:
If we redrafted today, he goes in front of Maye, and probably NIx.
Click to expand...
What about Pennix?
Click to expand...
I'm a big Pennix guy, let me see top of my head

Allen
Lamar
Hurts
Jayden

Burrow
Dak
Baker - keeping in this tier due to Egbuka

Fields
Mahomes - dropping due to Worthy
Kyler

And then we get to the blob

If I"m pulling right this moment, and I am saying we get full runs of Mooney and London

Penix
Nix - keeping him ahead of McCarthy for now due to Payton but coin flip
McCarthy
Maye
Purdy

I'm dipping Purdy due to the injuries
 
Watching that JTO breakdown, a lot of the things that went wrong in the CHI game were the result of horrific OL play. And JJM gets some real credit for the throws he didn’t try to make.

The pick-6 was a “tip your cap to the DB” play - he threw where he was supposed to with anticipation. Corner just made a hell of a play on that ball.

Now to the rest of the video - AKA “the fun part of the game”.
 
rockaction said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
I think that was the gameplan for game 1, on MNF, in his first start. Then they got down and the training wheels came off.

I think his FF prospects are sky high going forward. He showed well - no need to hide him any more.
Click to expand...

Sure. We disagree then. I should never underestimate an NFL coach's drive to have the QB fit his system come to fruition but O'Connell was pretty specific in print recently (and a bunch of other people sort of attested to his belief) that the NFL is doing a lousy job of developing QBs and that it needs to be a process that isn't, as Waldman complains about, akin to flash frying a steak but rather one that is conscious of incremental steps and human capability. He thinks is should be slower. JJ has indeed already sat a year in meetings and in preparation, but now he's got to physically do it. The way Minnesota has built their team is evidence not of a fast breaking L.A. Laker-style team, but more of slow-it-down and control things before the get too hectic Celtics style. That's my analogy. I think you'll find a run/pass distribution that is pretty even when in neutral situations.
Click to expand...
The intent of the team construction was to be a team that can win under any circumstances vs any opponent. To be more diverse.

It was the first game for a lot of players and timing clearly off in the early part of the game. A advantage for the home team and the early scripted plays the Bears ran pretty well, keeping the ball away. Both sides of the Vikings had to make adjustments.

I have heard some say KOC was somewhat conservative with the play calling early on as well.
 
Biabreakable said:
rockaction said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
I think that was the gameplan for game 1, on MNF, in his first start. Then they got down and the training wheels came off.

I think his FF prospects are sky high going forward. He showed well - no need to hide him any more.
Click to expand...

Sure. We disagree then. I should never underestimate an NFL coach's drive to have the QB fit his system come to fruition but O'Connell was pretty specific in print recently (and a bunch of other people sort of attested to his belief) that the NFL is doing a lousy job of developing QBs and that it needs to be a process that isn't, as Waldman complains about, akin to flash frying a steak but rather one that is conscious of incremental steps and human capability. He thinks is should be slower. JJ has indeed already sat a year in meetings and in preparation, but now he's got to physically do it. The way Minnesota has built their team is evidence not of a fast breaking L.A. Laker-style team, but more of slow-it-down and control things before the get too hectic Celtics style. That's my analogy. I think you'll find a run/pass distribution that is pretty even when in neutral situations.
Click to expand...
The intent of the team construction was to be a team that can win under any circumstances vs any opponent. To be more diverse.

It was the first game for a lot of players and timing clearly off in the early part of the game. A advantage for the home team and the early scripted plays the Bears ran pretty well, keeping the ball away. Both sides of the Vikings had to make adjustments.

I have heard some say KOC was somewhat conservative with the play calling early on as well.
Click to expand...

I can look on X/Twitter for the actual numbers because they were all over the place today.

They were 29th in Pass Rate Over Expected. They were more conservative than all but three teams. Look, I have no idea where this will go, but if we read tea leaves they trend in a direction. Things change and we don't know how it will play out. But everything so far points to a more conservative offense.


eta* The only thing that gives me pause is that these guys almost never change their spots or stripes and O'Connell loves to throw the football.
 
Biabreakable said:
I have heard some say KOC was somewhat conservative with the play calling early on as well.
Click to expand...
I was saying it in the in-game topic. JTO pointed out that the OL played badly, and JJ slipped several times.

JJM definitely played better than I thought in the 1st half. The moxie he showed in the comeback win cemented him as a gamer in my eyes.

JJM showed me more in a little over a quarter than ARich has shown me in 2+ years.
 
rockaction said:
Biabreakable said:
rockaction said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
rockaction said:
I think people aren't thinking about the pass/run distribution Minnesota is planning on. I saw that Minnesota was %14 below average in neutral situations for passing. The volume that people assumed would be there with KOC is belied by getting Mason and investing in the DL and OL. I don't think that the Vikings planned on putting everything on the young man's shoulders in his first year. O'Connell has distinct and definitive views about how to develop a young QB and I don't think it's to let him chuck it around like Kirk Cousins.

I think people are really overvaluing his fantasy prospects.
Click to expand...
I think that was the gameplan for game 1, on MNF, in his first start. Then they got down and the training wheels came off.

I think his FF prospects are sky high going forward. He showed well - no need to hide him any more.
Click to expand...

Sure. We disagree then. I should never underestimate an NFL coach's drive to have the QB fit his system come to fruition but O'Connell was pretty specific in print recently (and a bunch of other people sort of attested to his belief) that the NFL is doing a lousy job of developing QBs and that it needs to be a process that isn't, as Waldman complains about, akin to flash frying a steak but rather one that is conscious of incremental steps and human capability. He thinks is should be slower. JJ has indeed already sat a year in meetings and in preparation, but now he's got to physically do it. The way Minnesota has built their team is evidence not of a fast breaking L.A. Laker-style team, but more of slow-it-down and control things before the get too hectic Celtics style. That's my analogy. I think you'll find a run/pass distribution that is pretty even when in neutral situations.
Click to expand...
The intent of the team construction was to be a team that can win under any circumstances vs any opponent. To be more diverse.

It was the first game for a lot of players and timing clearly off in the early part of the game. A advantage for the home team and the early scripted plays the Bears ran pretty well, keeping the ball away. Both sides of the Vikings had to make adjustments.

I have heard some say KOC was somewhat conservative with the play calling early on as well.
Click to expand...

I can look on X/Twitter for the actual numbers because they were all over the place today.

They were 29th in Pass Rate Over Expected. They were more conservative than all but three teams. Look, I have no idea where this will go, but if we read tea leaves they trend in a direction. Things change and we don't know how it will play out. But everything so far points to a more conservative offense.


eta* The only thing that gives me pause is that these guys almost never change their spots or stripes and O'Connell loves to throw the football.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I’m not at all going to take a 1-game sample size on the road on MNF as a trend.

IMO they wanted to keep things on the ground and limit JJM’s exposure early on, but that backfired because of overall poor execution.

When it came time for desperation, JJM rose to the occasion. Some of those throws was unreal - the JJ TD was thrown into the tightest window, and what I didn’t see live was that JJM was getting stepped on by an OL while making that throw - he has to whip his hips to get his foot out and get zip on the pass. Incredibly impressive, especially given the circumstances.

And the designed run for a TD was Konami Code certified fresh.
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Yeah, I’m not at all going to take a 1-game sample size on the road on MNF as a trend.
Click to expand...

Sure, you don't have to at all. I mean you're allowed to distinguish it from another game as is your wont. But I'd ask what evidence do you have that they're going play like they played when they had Kirk Cousins? Or Sam Darnold? I can't think of one thing besides faith and assertions to the contrary. Well, only time will tell. We will see.
 
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