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QB Jameis Winston, NYG (2 Viewers)

I know it will never happen but I want to see a real qbbc.  Something like a 60/40 split with both of them lining up in the backfield for 10 or so snaps a game.  It would be stupid as all hell, but insanely fun.

 
NFL Beat Writers @32BeatWriters

"Sean Payton said after practice that the roles would rotate so the team can get a look at how both fit within the starting offense... While both Winston and Hill completed a high percentage of their passes, Winston clearly had the better day throwing the football."
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https://twitter.com/32beatwriters/status/1421102108124893188?s=21

NFL Beat Writers @32BeatWriters

"All but one of Hill's completions appeared to travel fewer than 7 or 8 yards past the line of scrimmage, and both of his incompletions came on his downfield attempts. Three of those completions came either at or behind the line of scrimmage."
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https://twitter.com/32beatwriters/status/1421102111283154948?s=21

 
Anyone else strapping on and going for this ride again?

He's basically been free in redraft so far, maybe he creeps up into that 15-20 range now.

We know how good he can be for fantasy

 
Truebluey said:
Anyone else strapping on and going for this ride again?

He's basically been free in redraft so far, maybe he creeps up into that 15-20 range now.

We know how good he can be for fantasy
Click to expand...


I think he's a thing, backup QB with upside...a viable target in superflex leagues.

 
Saints coach Sean Payton declined to name Jameis Winston his starting quarterback or reveal his decision timeline following Monday's preseason win over the Jaguars. 

"I don't have a timeframe," Payton said. "When we know what direction we're going, we'll let you guys know. We're not going to try to anticipate saying hey it's gonna me mid-week or next week." Payton's words came after Winston started and torched the Jags, completing 9-of-10 passes for 123 yards and two touchdowns. Both scores were long strikes to Marquez Callaway in tight coverage, clocking 43 and 29 yards, respectively. Per Next Gen Stats, Winston's 43-yarder traveled 53.3 yards in the air, the longest distance on any Saints passing touchdown since 2016. Winston's big night came as Taysom Hill looked awkward and struggled to elevate the ball. Winston got the start and Hill played deep into the night. Even if Winston "wins" the quarterback competition, Hill isn't going to be mothballed, but Winston is certainly looking like the favorite to be the primary passer. 

RELATED: 

Taysom Hill

SOURCE: Mike Triplett on Twitter 

Aug 24, 2021, 12:16 AM ET
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Truebluey said:
Anyone else strapping on and going for this ride again?

He's basically been free in redraft so far, maybe he creeps up into that 15-20 range now.

We know how good he can be for fantasy
Click to expand...


Could be the sleeper QB of 2021. Think about what a healthy Drew Brees did in that offense... where did he finish fantasy-wise?

Fresh start for Jameis. Might throw more picks than Brees, but the yards and TDs will be there IMO.

 
Truebluey said:
Anyone else strapping on and going for this ride again?

He's basically been free in redraft so far, maybe he creeps up into that 15-20 range now.

We know how good he can be for fantasy
Click to expand...
I've got him cheap in a superflex salary cap league and grabbed him late in a dynasty startup last year. Definitely worth hanging on to and seeing if he can be an asset.

 
Good god he looked magnificent last night 

Made his reads, had a cannon, displayed (gasp!) touch on short & intermediate throws, didn't have those trademark happy feet in the pocket, was decisive, and (gasp again!) made a couple nice touch tosses to the RB! Lawd have mercy, the Saints have fixed him? 

Last night was a substantial indictment of how terrible Bruce Arians is with young players. No wonder he always seems to prefer vets. Jameis seems to have been fixable the whole time. 

 
Dizzy said:
Could be the sleeper QB of 2021. Think about what a healthy Drew Brees did in that offense... where did he finish fantasy-wise?

Fresh start for Jameis. Might throw more picks than Brees, but the yards and TDs will be there IMO.
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I know, I know - preseason, 1 night, etc. 

But I'm getting on board with this. And the magic of it is you can draft him as your QB2 as his ADP is still ridiculously low. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Last night was a substantial indictment of how terrible Bruce Arians is with young players. No wonder he always seems to prefer vets. Jameis seems to have been fixable the whole time.
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 ??? 

Arians coached Winston for a single season when Winston was 25 and in his 5th season.  There may be further evidence of his ineptitude with younglings, but I would say most of the fault falls on Tampa Bay's previous coach(es).  Arians did pretty well with a young David Johnson in Arizona, are there specific other players you feel like he's ruined?

There was also a report that he got laser eye surgery last year.  Being able to see the field better may also lead to better pocket decisions?

 
tangfoot said:
 ??? 

Arians coached Winston for a single season when Winston was 25 and in his 5th season.  There may be further evidence of his ineptitude with younglings, but I would say most of the fault falls on Tampa Bay's previous coach(es).  Arians did pretty well with a young David Johnson in Arizona, are there specific other players you feel like he's ruined?

There was also a report that he got laser eye surgery last year.  Being able to see the field better may also lead to better pocket decisions?
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That was his 30-30 season, yes. And there was a ton of preseason speculation that Arians was going to be great for Winston’s development, etc. 

I didn’t say he “ruined” Winston. Please quote me saying that. I’ll wait. 

What I said was he didn’t help Winston’s development. And Winston demonstrably got worse. 

Eye surgery could indeed have helped. I’m not sure if they did brain surgery to help his decision making though. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I didn’t say he “ruined” Winston. Please quote me saying that. I’ll wait.
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You appear to be having a very poor day re: reading comprehension because I didn't say that you did.

Clearly it isn't just Winston that you feel Arians was poor with.  Who are the other young players that he failed to develop, failed to use properly, or whatever your explanation is for saying this:

Hot Sauce Guy said:
a substantial indictment of how terrible Bruce Arians is with young players.
Click to expand...

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
That was his 30-30 season, yes. And there was a ton of preseason speculation that Arians was going to be great for Winston’s development, etc. 

I didn’t say he “ruined” Winston. Please quote me saying that. I’ll wait. 

What I said was he didn’t help Winston’s development. And Winston demonstrably got worse. 

Eye surgery could indeed have helped. I’m not sure if they did brain surgery to help his decision making though. 
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Eye surgery would be helpful but my guess is a season and a half of humility probably helps as well.

We know it's bad for a QB's psyche when he constantly feels like he's going to be benched after every mistake. For much of Winston's time in TB, it was the polar opposite of that. To go from that to a backup role with a "prove it" deal would require some internal truth and reconciliation I think.

 
habsfan said:
Eye surgery would be helpful but my guess is a season and a half of humility probably helps as well.

We know it's bad for a QB's psyche when he constantly feels like he's going to be benched after every mistake. For much of Winston's time in TB, it was the polar opposite of that. To go from that to a backup role with a "prove it" deal would require some internal truth and reconciliation I think.
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Agree 100%

And Peyton > Arians in coaching, IMO. I’ve always hated Arians seemingly selective “one mistake & you’re benched” BS. He certainly didn’t bench Brady when he forgot what down it was. lol

 
tangfoot said:
Clearly it isn't just Winston that you feel Arians was poor with.  Who are the other young players that he failed to develop, failed to use properly, or whatever your explanation is for saying this:
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my point was not that he was detrimental to these players, but that he did nothing to improve them.

Arians has long had a reputation for impatience with younger players, and a preference for vets.

you have Google, by all means use it. 
 

ETA: Ronald Jones is a great example of another young player he was terrible with. One game in particular where Tom Brady set up Jones in traffic for a massive hit, which caused a questionable call fumble (since it was never clear the possession was established) and Jones got benched for the rest of the game. To me, that is terrible coaching of a talented young player.

 
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You have an opinion on approximately 99% of the threads on this board.

I grew tired of your baseless speculation and asked for you to provide further details about a very specific accusation.  It's not my fault you're bad at information retention and even worse at following up when called out about it.

 
tangfoot said:
You have an opinion on approximately 99% of the threads on this board.

I grew tired of your baseless speculation and asked for you to provide further details about a very specific accusation.  It's not my fault you're bad at information retention and even worse at following up when called out about it.
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:rolleyes:  

 
Winston should obviously start over Hill, but can we trust Payton to not bench Winston the minute he has a 3-INT guy and put his pet project in as the starter the next week? That is the worry with this situation.  

As for Winston, yes, he looked great last night, but talent has never been his problem.  Turnovers and decision making are always his issues, and it's gonna take a lot more than lighting up the Jags in a preseason game to make me think he has turned a corner.  But, again, he should be the starter in NO. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
Winston should obviously start over Hill, but can we trust Payton to not bench Winston the minute he has a 3-INT guy and put his pet project in as the starter the next week? That is the worry with this situation.  

As for Winston, yes, he looked great last night, but talent has never been his problem.  Turnovers and decision making are always his issues, and it's gonna take a lot more than lighting up the Jags in a preseason game to make me think he has turned a corner.  But, again, he should be the starter in NO. 
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On the second possession NO turned the ball over on 3rd and 11, when Jameis threw an errant check-down.  What was noteable was you could see him double-pump as there was clearly a deep ball he WANTED to throw, but made the decision to check-down instead.  It was a visible demonstration, abeit just one, of improved decision-making.  I like that.

 
Tanner9919 said:
he's going to tear it up this season. shred it. definitely a consideration in mid rounds. 4500/30/22int? sounds reasonable
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The talent gap between Winston and Hill is VAST. People buy way too much into the "Payton loves Hill" narrative because he played him for four games last year. He has no reason to give Winston the keys without earning it so of course he's holding a "competition". 

At the end of the day the only chance the Saints have at making the post season is Winston approaching his potential. He may do it, he may not. But starting Hill is putting their season in the grave before it even begins. 

 
need2know said:
we will see how long peyton can deal with the turnovers
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Yeah; I mean it’s too early & too small a sample size to say he’s fixed. 

but man he looked decisive out there. And accurate. And I will reiterate, competently threw swing passes to the RB. 

Those were all pretty impressive improvements. 

A full game with a defense playing at 100% & a competent secondary might tell a different tale. 

That 1st TD to Calloway with 2 defenders on him though…..wow. 

 
Tanner9919 said:
he's going to tear it up this season. shred it. definitely a consideration in mid rounds. 4500/30/22int? sounds reasonable
Click to expand...


I wonder if there is a Vegas prop on INTs.  I'd put the over/under at somewhere around 16.5.

 
Tanner9919 said:
he's going to tear it up this season. shred it. definitely a consideration in mid rounds. 4500/30/22int? sounds reasonable
Click to expand...


He wont be on the field to throw 22 ints and fumble 10 times. That's the whole problem. Can't even start him until you see him play a few games and Hill isn't getting a 3rd of the snaps. Undraftable in redraft imo unless you have big rosters.

 
"Man I sure love a player who gives the ball to the other team for free roughly two times a game.  He's a great player who will definitely lead the team to victory!"

That's what Jamis fans sound like to me.  I will never understand how anyone can get past the fact that he hurts his team more than helps.

 
wgoldsph said:
"Man I sure love a player who gives the ball to the other team for free roughly two times a game.  He's a great player who will definitely lead the team to victory!"

That's what Jamis fans sound like to me.  I will never understand how anyone can get past the fact that he hurts his team more than helps.
Click to expand...
Sorry, the Daniel Jones thread is down the hall and on the left

 
wgoldsph said:
"Man I sure love a player who gives the ball to the other team for free roughly two times a game.  He's a great player who will definitely lead the team to victory!"

That's what Jamis fans sound like to me.  I will never understand how anyone can get past the fact that he hurts his team more than helps.
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Really?  You really can’t understand how guys playing fantasy football get past him hurting his team…..while putting up great fantasy stats?

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Really?  You really can’t understand how guys playing fantasy football get past him hurting his team…..while putting up great fantasy stats?
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Okay I can buy this.  But the unbridled optimism around him starting all year and //out producing Brees// is what grinds my gears.

nysfl2 said:
Sorry, the Daniel Jones thread is down the hall and on the left
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Don't worry, I'm already throwing my garbage all over the place there too.

 
wgoldsph said:
"Man I sure love a player who gives the ball to the other team for free roughly two times a game.  He's a great player who will definitely lead the team to victory!"

That's what Jamis fans sound like to me.  I will never understand how anyone can get past the fact that he hurts his team more than helps.
Click to expand...


I drafted him 2 years ago. After two games I was so frustrated with the INTs that I cut him. To keep Cam. 

He got snapped up immediately. Biggest mistake ever. My season was a disaster. 

People forget his career trajectory so far is very similar to Luck's. He eventually cut down the INTs. Perhaps Jameis can also. 

 
Truebluey said:
People forget his career trajectory so far is very similar to Luck's. He eventually cut down the INTs. Perhaps Jameis can also. 
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I don't see that at all.  Yeah Luck didn't have a stellar rookie year but he cut down on the turnovers during his second year and increased his tds in his third.  If anything Winston grew more erratic as the years went on, not breaking out td wise until he also broke out int wise. Before his big year he had two seasons of less than 20 tds, although he missed a handful of games both seasons (in the second of the two because he was benched for Fitzmagic).

Also Jameis throws picks from a clean pocket, something Luck never could be called out for as his lines in indy were always terrible.  Imo this is Jameis's worst attribute as it shows a poor football iq and not someone making a bad read under duress. 

 
In a 1 QB league, he's not a draftable prospect to me.  

1. He's quite a bonehead. He has proven this in a few different way over the years, on and off field. He's gonna clean up INTs now?? Nah.....

2. How can I draft a guy that I am not sure he'll be the QB on goalline looks?

If it is late in the season, and your playoff life is depending on Winston at QB, and Taysom Hill comes jogging in for 1st and goal from the 7, you have to ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

Imagine drafting yourself into that scenario. Nope, I am not purposely getting on board Sean Payton's Mystery QB Rotation.

 
ESPN's Adam Schefter reports QB Jameis Winston will start Week 1 against the Packers. 

Winston shined Monday night against Jacksonville while Taysom Hill struggled mightily, effectively ending a competition Winston was favored to win from the start. Winston taking the Saints' starting gig will allow Hill to "fill his valuable gadget/do-everything role," per NFL Network's Ian Rapoport. That, of course, could be an issue for Winston's touchdown upside if head coach Sean Payton deploys Hill near the goal line. Winston becomes one of the best late-round QB selections in superflex formats. His presence under center is a boon for every pass catcher in the New Orleans offense. He'll bring far more aggressive downfield passing than we saw with Drew Brees at the helm of Payton's offense. Winston can earn up to $7 million this season in incentives, mostly based on statistical markers. 

- Adam Schefter, Twitter
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Wonder if I can still get him in the 12th/13th round of 14-16 teamers now.

 
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massraider said:
In a 1 QB league, he's not a draftable prospect to me.  

1. He's quite a bonehead. He has proven this in a few different way over the years, on and off field. He's gonna clean up INTs now?? Nah.....

2. How can I draft a guy that I am not sure he'll be the QB on goalline looks?

If it is late in the season, and your playoff life is depending on Winston at QB, and Taysom Hill comes jogging in for 1st and goal from the 7, you have to ask yourself, "How did I get here?"

Imagine drafting yourself into that scenario. Nope, I am not purposely getting on board Sean Payton's Mystery QB Rotation.
Click to expand...


I believe this comes down to how many teams are in your league, no?

I don't see why Sean Peyton would blow up his proven system now. Drew Brees put up numbers in this offense with Hill locked in as the gadget guy. I expect Winston to do the same.

IMO, Hill jogging in on 1st & G from the 7 will have KAMARA owners wondering how they got here more so than those that drafted Winston in round 10.

 
do ya'll remember if Winston checked down to the RB's in TB ?

I have Kamara in one league, are we expecting 90-100 targets - is Winston capable? Some QB's seem unwilling to pass to out of the backfield RBs

 
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