Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I'm in the perfect league for this guy. No negative points for turnovers and we play team QB, so I would also get whatever Hill gets.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
QB Jameis Winston, NYG (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
heckmanm
Footballguy
I've got him cheap in a superflex salary cap league and grabbed him late in a dynasty startup last year. Definitely worth hanging on to and seeing if he can be an asset.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Good god he looked magnificent last night
Made his reads, had a cannon, displayed (gasp!) touch on short & intermediate throws, didn't have those trademark happy feet in the pocket, was decisive, and (gasp again!) made a couple nice touch tosses to the RB! Lawd have mercy, the Saints have fixed him?
Last night was a substantial indictment of how terrible Bruce Arians is with young players. No wonder he always seems to prefer vets. Jameis seems to have been fixable the whole time.
Made his reads, had a cannon, displayed (gasp!) touch on short & intermediate throws, didn't have those trademark happy feet in the pocket, was decisive, and (gasp again!) made a couple nice touch tosses to the RB! Lawd have mercy, the Saints have fixed him?
Last night was a substantial indictment of how terrible Bruce Arians is with young players. No wonder he always seems to prefer vets. Jameis seems to have been fixable the whole time.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I know, I know - preseason, 1 night, etc.
But I'm getting on board with this. And the magic of it is you can draft him as your QB2 as his ADP is still ridiculously low.
???
Arians coached Winston for a single season when Winston was 25 and in his 5th season. There may be further evidence of his ineptitude with younglings, but I would say most of the fault falls on Tampa Bay's previous coach(es). Arians did pretty well with a young David Johnson in Arizona, are there specific other players you feel like he's ruined?
There was also a report that he got laser eye surgery last year. Being able to see the field better may also lead to better pocket decisions?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That was his 30-30 season, yes. And there was a ton of preseason speculation that Arians was going to be great for Winston’s development, etc.
I didn’t say he “ruined” Winston. Please quote me saying that. I’ll wait.
What I said was he didn’t help Winston’s development. And Winston demonstrably got worse.
Eye surgery could indeed have helped. I’m not sure if they did brain surgery to help his decision making though.
You appear to be having a very poor day re: reading comprehension because I didn't say that you did.
Clearly it isn't just Winston that you feel Arians was poor with. Who are the other young players that he failed to develop, failed to use properly, or whatever your explanation is for saying this:
habsfan
Footballguy
Eye surgery would be helpful but my guess is a season and a half of humility probably helps as well.
We know it's bad for a QB's psyche when he constantly feels like he's going to be benched after every mistake. For much of Winston's time in TB, it was the polar opposite of that. To go from that to a backup role with a "prove it" deal would require some internal truth and reconciliation I think.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Agree 100%
And Peyton > Arians in coaching, IMO. I’ve always hated Arians seemingly selective “one mistake & you’re benched” BS. He certainly didn’t bench Brady when he forgot what down it was. lol
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
my point was not that he was detrimental to these players, but that he did nothing to improve them.
Arians has long had a reputation for impatience with younger players, and a preference for vets.
you have Google, by all means use it.
ETA: Ronald Jones is a great example of another young player he was terrible with. One game in particular where Tom Brady set up Jones in traffic for a massive hit, which caused a questionable call fumble (since it was never clear the possession was established) and Jones got benched for the rest of the game. To me, that is terrible coaching of a talented young player.
Last edited by a moderator:
You have an opinion on approximately 99% of the threads on this board.
I grew tired of your baseless speculation and asked for you to provide further details about a very specific accusation. It's not my fault you're bad at information retention and even worse at following up when called out about it.
I grew tired of your baseless speculation and asked for you to provide further details about a very specific accusation. It's not my fault you're bad at information retention and even worse at following up when called out about it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Winston should obviously start over Hill, but can we trust Payton to not bench Winston the minute he has a 3-INT guy and put his pet project in as the starter the next week? That is the worry with this situation.
As for Winston, yes, he looked great last night, but talent has never been his problem. Turnovers and decision making are always his issues, and it's gonna take a lot more than lighting up the Jags in a preseason game to make me think he has turned a corner. But, again, he should be the starter in NO.
As for Winston, yes, he looked great last night, but talent has never been his problem. Turnovers and decision making are always his issues, and it's gonna take a lot more than lighting up the Jags in a preseason game to make me think he has turned a corner. But, again, he should be the starter in NO.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
On the second possession NO turned the ball over on 3rd and 11, when Jameis threw an errant check-down. What was noteable was you could see him double-pump as there was clearly a deep ball he WANTED to throw, but made the decision to check-down instead. It was a visible demonstration, abeit just one, of improved decision-making. I like that.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
he's going to tear it up this season. shred it. definitely a consideration in mid rounds. 4500/30/22int? sounds reasonable
Apple Juice
Footballguy
Tanner9919 said:
The talent gap between Winston and Hill is VAST. People buy way too much into the "Payton loves Hill" narrative because he played him for four games last year. He has no reason to give Winston the keys without earning it so of course he's holding a "competition".
At the end of the day the only chance the Saints have at making the post season is Winston approaching his potential. He may do it, he may not. But starting Hill is putting their season in the grave before it even begins.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah; I mean it’s too early & too small a sample size to say he’s fixed.
but man he looked decisive out there. And accurate. And I will reiterate, competently threw swing passes to the RB.
Those were all pretty impressive improvements.
A full game with a defense playing at 100% & a competent secondary might tell a different tale.
That 1st TD to Calloway with 2 defenders on him though…..wow.
SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Tanner9919 said:
I wonder if there is a Vegas prop on INTs. I'd put the over/under at somewhere around 16.5.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
Tanner9919 said:
He wont be on the field to throw 22 ints and fumble 10 times. That's the whole problem. Can't even start him until you see him play a few games and Hill isn't getting a 3rd of the snaps. Undraftable in redraft imo unless you have big rosters.
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
wgoldsph
Footballguy
"Man I sure love a player who gives the ball to the other team for free roughly two times a game. He's a great player who will definitely lead the team to victory!"
That's what Jamis fans sound like to me. I will never understand how anyone can get past the fact that he hurts his team more than helps.
That's what Jamis fans sound like to me. I will never understand how anyone can get past the fact that he hurts his team more than helps.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Really? You really can’t understand how guys playing fantasy football get past him hurting his team…..while putting up great fantasy stats?
Shawnky
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hell or high water he's my back of the draft QB2 (or 3)
wgoldsph
Footballguy
Okay I can buy this. But the unbridled optimism around him starting all year and //out producing Brees// is what grinds my gears.
Don't worry, I'm already throwing my garbage all over the place there too.
Truebluey
Footballguy
I drafted him 2 years ago. After two games I was so frustrated with the INTs that I cut him. To keep Cam.
He got snapped up immediately. Biggest mistake ever. My season was a disaster.
People forget his career trajectory so far is very similar to Luck's. He eventually cut down the INTs. Perhaps Jameis can also.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
I don't see that at all. Yeah Luck didn't have a stellar rookie year but he cut down on the turnovers during his second year and increased his tds in his third. If anything Winston grew more erratic as the years went on, not breaking out td wise until he also broke out int wise. Before his big year he had two seasons of less than 20 tds, although he missed a handful of games both seasons (in the second of the two because he was benched for Fitzmagic).
Also Jameis throws picks from a clean pocket, something Luck never could be called out for as his lines in indy were always terrible. Imo this is Jameis's worst attribute as it shows a poor football iq and not someone making a bad read under duress.
massraider
Footballguy
In a 1 QB league, he's not a draftable prospect to me.
1. He's quite a bonehead. He has proven this in a few different way over the years, on and off field. He's gonna clean up INTs now?? Nah.....
2. How can I draft a guy that I am not sure he'll be the QB on goalline looks?
If it is late in the season, and your playoff life is depending on Winston at QB, and Taysom Hill comes jogging in for 1st and goal from the 7, you have to ask yourself, "How did I get here?"
Imagine drafting yourself into that scenario. Nope, I am not purposely getting on board Sean Payton's Mystery QB Rotation.
1. He's quite a bonehead. He has proven this in a few different way over the years, on and off field. He's gonna clean up INTs now?? Nah.....
2. How can I draft a guy that I am not sure he'll be the QB on goalline looks?
If it is late in the season, and your playoff life is depending on Winston at QB, and Taysom Hill comes jogging in for 1st and goal from the 7, you have to ask yourself, "How did I get here?"
Imagine drafting yourself into that scenario. Nope, I am not purposely getting on board Sean Payton's Mystery QB Rotation.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Wonder if I can still get him in the 12th/13th round of 14-16 teamers now.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dizzy
Footballguy
I believe this comes down to how many teams are in your league, no?
I don't see why Sean Peyton would blow up his proven system now. Drew Brees put up numbers in this offense with Hill locked in as the gadget guy. I expect Winston to do the same.
IMO, Hill jogging in on 1st & G from the 7 will have KAMARA owners wondering how they got here more so than those that drafted Winston in round 10.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
do ya'll remember if Winston checked down to the RB's in TB ?
I have Kamara in one league, are we expecting 90-100 targets - is Winston capable? Some QB's seem unwilling to pass to out of the backfield RBs
I have Kamara in one league, are we expecting 90-100 targets - is Winston capable? Some QB's seem unwilling to pass to out of the backfield RBs
The last time Jameis was a starter, he finished the season as QB3. Last season, Drew Brees was QB21.
He's going to be drafted as a team's QB2 and has the upside of high-end QB1. But sure, shoot yourself in the foot if you want to.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If he’s starting all year, it’s likely he isn’t turning the ball over.
I don’t think it’s that far fetched to think that If he starts all season he’ll out-produce Brees. Brees wasn’t very good lasT season. His arm was shot.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
I didn't take it as Brees last year when he was dead, but Brees in his heyday. That's on me.
massraider
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Overreact much? He had a nice half in a preseason game against literally the worst team in the league. This is who he’s always been. He’ll make several great plays in a row and then when the game is on the line he’ll do something galactically stupid.
Also, that deep ball TD was into double coverage (gasp!) and if the trail DB had any ball skills it would have been picked.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Brees missed four games last year and most of a 5th, so throwing that out there without providing that context seems a bit disingenuous.tangfoot said:
Last edited by a moderator:
The receiver was behind both DBs, and is really fast. Making the throw was the right decision.
He actually threw it a little short, and Callaway did a nice job slowing up to keep his body between the DBs and the ball.
woodstock
Footballguy
Anybody pooh-poohing Jameis for fantasy purposes did not watch him those two years under Koetter. I won't claim to know that he's shaken the turnover-prone ways of yore, but he certainly will score you fantasy points under Payton. Likely in droves. Unless he's getting yanked for Hill inside the twenty all the time.
That would be a problem.
That would be a problem.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
That’s my point. He underthrew it into double coverage. Can’t take it away. It’s a TD. But, I’m not sure it flies against top tier competition. Anyway, Jameis has never had an issue racking up yards and TDs. He’ll likely be great for fantasy if the Saints can find some reliable receivers.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Your point appeared to be that it was a bad decision. It wasn’t. The “help” was two steps behind the DB, and the WR had two steps on the DB also. It was a bad throw - under thrown - but not a bad decision.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Similar threads
