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QB Jameis Winston, NYG (2 Viewers)

I’m eager to see which Winston shows up. 30/30 is HOF caliber in baseball - NFL, notsomuch. 

Looked like Payton had him playing well, and very conservatively. Didn’t he average like 3 yards per throw? 

Also didn’t have Michael Thomas, which could have an impact.

Could be Winston was the best value QB signing this offseason. Or it could be he’s the same reckless $10 arm, $.10 brain dude he was in TB. 

Time will tell. 

Also curious how long Kamara will be suspended for. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I’m eager to see which Winston shows up. 30/30 is HOF caliber in baseball - NFL, notsomuch. 

Looked like Payton had him playing well, and very conservatively. Didn’t he average like 3 yards per throw? 

Also didn’t have Michael Thomas, which could have an impact.

Could be Winston was the best value QB signing this offseason. Or it could be he’s the same reckless $10 arm, $.10 brain dude he was in TB. 

Time will tell. 

Also curious how long Kamara will be suspended for. 
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Indeed a caveat for not having Thomas, but Winston was definitely not as good as his numbers suggested. He had something of an up and down season, where he had 2 really good games, and 2 really awful games, and was pretty meh, in the other 2 before getting hurt in another meh game. 

Interestingly, he had both the lowest Average depth of target, and highest time to throw of his career, which is odd, because those 2 stats tend to counteract one another. Now Sean Payton is gone, and Winston feels like a guy to bet against to me. 

I think QB is in play at #18. 

 
travdogg said:
Indeed a caveat for not having Thomas, but Winston was definitely not as good as his numbers suggested. He had something of an up and down season, where he had 2 really good games, and 2 really awful games, and was pretty meh, in the other 2 before getting hurt in another meh game. 

Interestingly, he had both the lowest Average depth of target, and highest time to throw of his career, which is odd, because those 2 stats tend to counteract one another. Now Sean Payton is gone, and Winston feels like a guy to bet against to me. 

I think QB is in play at #18. 
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Or he’s their key to picking a QB in the top 5 in 2023

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Looked like Payton had him playing well, and very conservatively. Didn’t he average like 3 yards per throw?
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Winston was incorporating the playbook incrementally week by week. By the time he was hurt, he had the bulk of it down (call it 3/4?).

Here were Winston's stats for 2021. At the time of his injury, he was at 7.3 yards/attempt (7.7 career), 12.3 yards/completion (12.6 career), and a career high in both passer rating and adjusted net yards per attempt (a sabermetric measure).

 
Even a rough sailing season needs a skipper. Too bad the little buddy is going to be suspended. Ginger looking a little long in the tooth and limping on a bad ankle meant missing many episodes. The Howells are still throwing money at stuff and Maryann just had surgery on a thumb. Who would have thought that the professor would finally use his smarts and leave the Island? 

 
travdogg said:
He had something of an up and down season, where he had 2 really good games, and 2 really awful games, and was pretty meh, in the other 2 before getting hurt in another meh game.
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The up-and-down thing is definitely true. I still think the best was yet to come for him at the time of his injury -- he had been on a short leash for the first few weeks, and there was also the first Panthers game where most of the team's coaching staff was out with COVID. The whole offense looked lost that day.

 
Doug B said:
Winston was incorporating the playbook incrementally week by week. By the time he was hurt, he had the bulk of it down (call it 3/4?).

Here were Winston's stats for 2021. At the time of his injury, he was at 7.3 yards/attempt (7.7 career), 12.3 yards/completion (12.6 career), and a career high in both passer rating and adjusted net yards per attempt (a sabermetric measure).
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He was there the year before too. He should’ve had the playbook down cold. That doesn’t sound like a legit reason. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
:shrug:  
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Ya know you gotta wonder right? I thought that Hill was even more than smoke and mirrors. He was the best lipstick you've ever seen on a pig. Like amazingly good. It still was something that barely worked when it did. It was kinda obvious to the peanut gallery but with all that smoke it was hard to know for sure. 

 
Capella said:
He was there the year before too. He should’ve had the playbook down cold. That doesn’t sound like a legit reason. 
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No, not as in "learning the plays" from a binder ... also the muscle memory, repetition aspect of learning an offense during live action. Payton was calling from a limited playbook in 2021, as he had done with Brees early on.

Drew Brees has said that it took him about two seasons to master Payton's offense. Not merely operate functionally and fulfill assignments, but to be able to deviate meaningfully from what was drawn up on the board.

 
Doug B said:
No, not as in "learning the plays" from a binder ... also the muscle memory, repetition aspect of learning an offense during live action. Payton was calling from a limited playbook in 2021, as he had done with Brees early on.

Drew Brees has said that it took him about two seasons to master Payton's offense. Not merely operate functionally and fulfill assignments, but to be able to deviate meaningfully from what was drawn up on the board.
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Safe to say Jameis “crab legs” Winston is not quite as cerebral as Drew “HOF” Brees. 

 
Doug B said:
The up-and-down thing is definitely true. I still think the best was yet to come for him at the time of his injury -- he had been on a short leash for the first few weeks, and there was also the first Panthers game where most of the team's coaching staff was out with COVID. The whole offense looked lost that day.
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Yeah I agree I thought he was about to take a next step when he got hurt. I was watching that game and I remember thinking that he looked more physically fit than he ever had. There was a play where he scrambled and IMO looked very nimble. Then he blew his knee out a little later. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Hill is a horrible QB.
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Horrible is a stretch, he's a very limited passer for sure, but he's been an effective starter for them. I'd argue he's as good as Winston, when you factor in what he brings to the running game. Hill has been more accurate and a better decision maker than Winston, which is not me complimenting Hill.

 
travdogg said:
Horrible is a stretch, he's a very limited passer for sure, but he's been an effective starter for them. I'd argue he's as good as Winston, when you factor in what he brings to the running game. Hill has been more accurate and a better decision maker than Winston, which is not me complimenting Hill.
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He's a really bad passer. I'd rather hope that Winston becomes less reckless as he ages than to throw Hill out there as a full time starter. 

 
travdogg said:
Hill has been more accurate and a better decision maker than Winston, which is not me complimenting Hill.
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FWIW, Winston's 2021 passer rating was 102.8 and Hill's was 75.4. To be fair to Hill, his rating in 2020 was 98.8 over four starts.

I can agree that Hill is more risk-averse with his throws, but that just means he eats the ball and either takes off running or takes the sack.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
He's a really bad passer. I'd rather hope that Winston becomes less reckless as he ages than to throw Hill out there as a full time starter. 
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Unless they draft a QB or end up with Mayfield (both would be better options) I think we'll see both Winston and Hill start games this season. I'm terrified of Winston without Payton. 

I think bad is unfair, just limited. He completed over 70% of his passes in 2020, with a YPA of 7.7. 

Doug B said:
FWIW, Winston's 2021 passer rating was 102.8 and Hill's was 75.4. To be fair to Hill, his rating in 2020 was 98.8 over four starts.

I can agree that Hill is more risk-averse with his throws, but that just means he eats the ball and either takes off running or takes the sack.
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To be fair to Hill, he had a scary concussion, and then was playing through a similar, but not quite as bad finger injury as Wilson in 2021. I think 2020 is a more accurate representation. 

Personally, I'd rather have both be backups. 

 
I've love to see Jameis with a full camp and having Thomas/Kamara/whatever they have at WR. He's still going to have an ADP north of #170 (11th round in 16-teamers), which means huge value if he can be good as a starter. He desperately needs am O-Line though, remember last year they had so many injuries to the line he was runnign for his life.

 
Jameis Winston said he's working to improve his accuracy on intermediate passes. 

An aggressive and productive downfield thrower during his tenure with Tampa, Winston has never been an accurate passer on shorter throws. Improving on intermediate attempts will prove critical for Winston and the New Orleans offense in 2022 with the anticipated return of Michael Thomas, who has long dominated on short slant routes. Before his late-season ACL injury in 2021, Winston was the fourth least aggressive quarterback in the NFL, according to Next Gen Stats. That was largely due to the hyper-conservative nature of the Saints offense. “I know I can make the big plays, but really just staying in the rhythm of completing the football, keeping the offense going throughout the course of a game is something that I’ve been able to focus on,” Winston said.

RELATED: 

Michael Thomas

SOURCE: ProFootballTalk.com 

Apr 4, 2022, 9:29 AM ET
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Saints head coach Dennis Allen said the team plans on having Jameis Winston (ACL) ready for Week 1. 

“There’s a lot of days between now and Week One, but we certainly like where he’s at right now,” Allen said. “We like the progress that he’s making." Winston tore his ACL at the end of October, effectively tanking the Saints' 2021 season after a promising start. Barring a setback in his recovery from the knee injury, Winston should be under center for New Orleans to start the year. He'll get Michael Thomas back from injury and hyper-productive Ohio State WR Chris Olave -- a potential boon for his fantasy value. 

RELATED: 

Andy Dalton

SOURCE: Pro Football Talk on Twitter 

May 6, 2022, 11:35 AM ET
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The Athletic's Katherine Terrell reports Jameis Winston (knee) "did almost everything" at Thursday's OTAs.

This is a positive sign for Winston, who is returning from a torn ACL suffered in late October. The Saints aren't expected to push Winston to get on the field, but the fact that he participated in most of Thursday's practice is encouraging. Winston threw for 1,170 yards, 14 touchdowns and three interceptions in seven games for the Saints last season and was the QB15 in fantasy points per game (18.7). A healthy Winston would be good for both the Saints and fantasy managers -- especially with added weapons in Jarvis Landry and Chris Olave.

SOURCE: Katherine Terrell on Twitter

May 26, 2022, 3:51 PM ET
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Winston is on my short list for QB2s this year.  He costs you next to nothing and could post low-mid range QB1 numbers some weeks. Give him a few weeks and see where he's a. 

@ ATL > TB > @CAR  > MIN 

You'll have a pretty good idea what you've got by then. 

 
MMQB: Jameis Winston Grateful to be Back With Saints

Excerpt:

There was a point this offseason where Jameis Winston’s motivation was pretty modest.

“The first few weeks, I was sleeping on my parents’ couch—no hotel, I’m sleeping on their couch,” said Winston over the phone after Thursday’s OTA session in New Orleans. “And it got to the point where I was like, I got to get off this couch! Like, there’s no way I can stay on this couch. Going to rehab, coming back, sitting on the couch, icing and then going to sleep on the couch, it was like, No, I didn’t live my life to live on my parents’ couch.”

Blessings have come in different ways the past couple years for Winston. Blessings not the same as earning a five-star rating as a high school recruit, or the Heisman Trophy as a Florida State redshirt freshman in 2013, or taking home a national title a month after that, and becoming the first pick in the draft in April of 2015.

You can call the blessings coming now modest, if you want. And Winston isn’t the only one in New Orleans fired up to see where those blessings wind up taking him.

A marker in Winston’s comeback from ACL reconstruction in November involved being able to break free from his folks’ two bedroom apartment in Birmingham, Ala. That was a few months ago, and since, he’s worked his way from being limited to throwing the ball inside a 25-yard radius to, now, being able to let it rip, with a few steps left—he’s still not rolling out or throwing on the run—to get back to full speed.

What’s emerged is a more mature Winston, a smarter Winston, and a Winston with a very real appreciation for the opportunity that’s in front of him. Part of that’s being on a team that not only went in on him again—with a two-year, $28 million deal—but also doubled down on the star-studded existing core around him. That cast has been to the playoffs five consecutive years, rather than going through the cap purge many figured was coming.

The other part of it? It’s simply what he went through on the way here.

“I kind of like that back-against-the-wall mentality,” Winston said. “It’s being in the dungeon by yourself, and just coming out of it when you’re ready—when you’re ready to declare to this world that you’ve been doing the work in silence. And you do that with actions. So that’s how I view it. We still have a long year ahead of us. I’m just trying to be prepared for every opportunity that presents itself.”

The Saints’ bet on 2022, in so many ways, is a bet he will be their starting quarterback. And they aren’t making that bet blindly.
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Well, the trend of rosy outlook glowing updates seems to have hit a snag.

Wearing a brace, noticeable limp, practice field success did not translate to contact drills, and didn’t participate in 11 on 11 drills. 

To be fair, probably to be expected in ACL recovery at this point, but there seemed to be a trend of growing optimism. 

“NewOrleans.football's Nick Underhill reports Jameis Winston moved "with a visible limp" during last week's OTAs. 

Winston is six months removed from surgery on the torn ACL he suffered in Week 7 of the 2021 season. "He practiced with a brace on his left knee and took part in every facet of practice, though he sat out the last period of 11-on-11 drills," Underhill reported. "The quarterback moved with a visible limp. He could push the ball downfield during individual drills but did not have the same ability in live action. Most of his passes during the team portion of practice stayed close to home." Underhill said Winston clearly "has some work to do in his recovery" from knee surgery. Head coach Dennis Allen has said Winston will be ready for training camp and will be the team's starting quarterback barring a setback. His progress will be well worth monitoring this summer.”

 
I mean it's 6 months after surgery. By the time the season starts will be 9 months after surgery, which still is pretty fast for recovery. I don't think he'll get PUP'd but the way rehab goes he could be ready for the season or miss the first 3 weeks.

 
Jameis Winston posted a video on Instagram that shows him doing throwing drills without a knee brace.

Winston tore his ACL on October 31 but has appeared on track to start in Week 1 for the Saints. In May it was noted that he was moving with a limp at OTAs, which makes his ability to work without a brace a positive development. Winston was very un-Winston-like in 2021, operating with high efficiency on low volume. With far better weapons—all three of the Saints 2021 starting wide receivers are now backups—Winston could earn more trust from his coaches this season, if healthy. 

SOURCE: ProFootballTalk on Twitter

Jul 6, 2022, 9:33 AM ET
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NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports it is "all positive" for Jameis Winston (ACL).

He added that Winston may take his bootlegs slowly in training camp, but the expectation is that "full health is coming." All signs point to Winston suiting up for Week 1. He suffered a torn ACL in Week 8 last year but was playing well before the injury. Winston tossed 14 scores and just three interceptions in his seven appearances. With Michael Thomas seemingly healthy plus Jarvis Landry and Chris Olave added to the roster, Winston's ADP is sure to rise if the positive reports keep coming. Going as a low-end QB2, Winston could greatly outperform his cost in fantasy drafts if he can keep the egregious mistakes from creeping back into his game. 

SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

Jul 19, 2022, 7:39 PM ET
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I'm coming around on Jameis having long term value in dynasty leagues (mostly Superflex). He's less cheap than he was a few months ago, but you can still get him for a late 1st or early 2nd. That's not a bad price given his age, upside, and how poorly the QB rookie class is this year. I don't recall a worse QB draft than this one.  

 
Appearing on the Establish the Run podcast, NewOrleans.Football's Nick Underhill expects the Saints to implement an "open, WR-based offense" under new coach Dennis Allen.

As Underhill noted, OC Pete Carmichael used "11 personnel" -- one RB, one TE, three WRs -- more than 50% of the time in 2012 when coach Sean Payton was suspended. And now Carmichael is the guy running the show on offense with Payton resigning after last season. Underhill expects Jameis Winston's pass attempts to rise from last season when the Saints were extremely run-based. And Underhill even thinks first-round WR Chris Olave could lead the team in receiving yards because his deep-threat, big-play style meshes perfectly with what Winston likes to do as a passer. A much-improved wideout room with Olave, the return of Michael Thomas, and addition of slot man Jarvis Landry paves the way for the Saints to throw the ball more effectively. Winston is currently being drafted as a back-end QB2 in fantasy.

- Establish The Run podcast
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If we can lock that in as the base O and now with no dumb Taysom Hill gimmicks, there's plenty of late sleeper appeal to Jameis at his 155-160 ADP. It's all up to Jameis to continue what he did last year with an improved offensive line.

 
JAMEIS WINSTON’S OUTSTANDING TRAINING CAMP SO FAR DEFEATING TWO FAMILIAR FOES
... since the start of training camp, the improvement in decision-making, maturity and understanding of what his role is can all be demonstrated in one statistic:

Nick Underhill
@nick_underhill

Another positive summer for Jameis Winston so far.
Sixty pass attempts in 11-on-11 drills.
Zero interceptions.

This, you may recall, is a quarterback who threw an NFL high 30 interceptions in 2019. After that year the Tampa Bay Buccaneers decided to move on from Winston,
 

Jameis Winston (back) was limited in Thursday's practice.​

Winston will likely play on Sunday against Tampa Bay, as he's been limited in back-to-back practices. With a pass funnel defense on the other side, Winston makes a sneaky high-end QB2 play. Winston went for 269 yards and two touchdowns against the Falcons in New Orleans' opener.
Sep 15, 2022, 3:59 PM ET
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NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport reports Jameis Winston (back) is expected to play in Week 2 against the Bucs.​

Winston suffered the injury in Week 1, leaving for the medical tent mid-game before returning with no snaps missed. He then got in three limited practices before being hit with the questionable tag. With Alvin Kamara likely out for this game, the Saints may have no choice but to lean on their banged-up quarterback. The gunslinging passer lands in the QB2 range this week.
SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
Sep 18, 2022, 8:53 AM ET
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