QB Jameis Winston, NYG (7 Viewers)

[Grahamburn]

I'm pretty sure you can't find someone "guilty" in a civil trial?

His reputation is already in shambles. All you have to do is read this thread to know that. It's not like "We find in favor of the plaintiff and award damages in the amount of $7M" is going to change anything.

 

[werdnoynek]

I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that.

Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

If this goes to trial and he's loses it's far worse for his reputation than whatever millions he has to pay.

Wut?

Repeat after me..."Jameis Winston found guilty of rape in his civil trial".

And... Winston then has to pay the damages she's claiming which is over $15k.

Then it may go to through the criminal justice system were a preponderance of evidence doesn't mean much of anything and they'll actually have the burden of proof and will have to try to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he did it... with the lack of evidence in this "case" - good luck.

 

[cstu]

FSU just hired their first full-time Title IX director.

You worried, FSU?

 

[werdnoynek]

I think Jameis will be a pretty good pro QB. I also think the off field stuff is way overblown.

It is overblown. Obviously the accusation is serious, but we'll never know, and nobody thinks Jameis has a Cosby issue here. He can now afford all the crab legs and soda he wants. All he has to do is put these things behind him and go play football.

It's easy for message board posters, rival GM's, personnel folks, media types, and the like to take the moral high ground, crucify Jameis, and anonymously boast how they'd never select him with the #1 pick. It's not so easy for the franchise making the decision that hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade.

The probability of Winston having further off-field troubles is high if the rape allegation is true. Reason being, it suggests he has a severe personality disorder instead of merely being immature.

Going through a civil suit and them finding him guilty doesn't mean going through criminal court will produce the same outcome. He could end up going through the civil suit, pay the penalty after being found guilty and not even have criminal charges brought against him.

Unless there's evidence that Kinsman's people provide that wasn't already available to the investigators, I highly doubt there will be charges.

 

[werdnoynek]

FSU just hired their first full-time Title IX director.

You worried, FSU?

:spin:

 

[cstu]

I'm pretty sure you can't find someone "guilty" in a civil trial?

His reputation is already in shambles. All you have to do is read this thread to know that. It's not like "We find in favor of the plaintiff and award damages in the amount of $7M" is going to change anything.

Ok, if you want to parse words - 'liable'.

As much as his reputation is in shambles now, wait until he's found 'liable' in the rape of Erica Kinsman.

 

[davearm]

I've read lots of Winston supporters bash Kinsman's credibility, and also point to the tox screen results to discredit her story. The article below is kind of a must-read for these folks, IMO.

https://www.push5.com/aboutlastnight.html

 

[Grahamburn]

I'm pretty sure you can't find someone "guilty" in a civil trial?

His reputation is already in shambles. All you have to do is read this thread to know that. It's not like "We find in favor of the plaintiff and award damages in the amount of $7M" is going to change anything.

Ok, if you want to parse words - 'liable'.

As much as his reputation is in shambles now, wait until he's found 'liable' in the rape of Erica Kinsman.

Will your opinion of him change if he's found liable? What if he isn't?

 

[cstu]

I'm pretty sure you can't find someone "guilty" in a civil trial?

His reputation is already in shambles. All you have to do is read this thread to know that. It's not like "We find in favor of the plaintiff and award damages in the amount of $7M" is going to change anything.

Ok, if you want to parse words - 'liable'.

As much as his reputation is in shambles now, wait until he's found 'liable' in the rape of Erica Kinsman.

Will your opinion of him change if he's found liable? What if he isn't?

If he is found not liable I will buy a Winston jersey and post the photo here.

 

[werdnoynek]

I've read lots of Winston supporters bash Kinsman's credibility, and also point to the tox screen results to discredit her story. The article below is kind of a must-read for these folks, IMO.

https://www.push5.com/aboutlastnight.html

Some things are hard to detect... nothing was detected. Does that mean it was in her system?

 

[werdnoynek]

Whats this liable talk?? This isn't an auto accident liability claim. It's guilty or not guilty.

 

[Grahamburn]

Whats this liable talk?? This isn't an auto accident liability claim. It's guilty or not guilty.

I'm no lawyer. Didn't think you could find someone "guilty" in a civil trial.

 

[davearm]

I've read lots of Winston supporters bash Kinsman's credibility, and also point to the tox screen results to discredit her story. The article below is kind of a must-read for these folks, IMO.

https://www.push5.com/aboutlastnight.html

Some things are hard to detect... nothing was detected. Does that mean it was in her system?

Winston defenders point to the tox results as proof there wasn't anything except alcohol in her system. This article explains why that's a faulty conclusion.

The other big takeaway is that things in this case transpired almost exactly as the typical scene is described in the article.

 

[werdnoynek]

Whats this liable talk?? This isn't an auto accident liability claim. It's guilty or not guilty.

I'm no lawyer. Didn't think you could find someone "guilty" in a civil trial.

Yeah there will still be a guilty / not guilty "verdict" handed down by a judge or jury... civil penalties are then paid.

 

[davearm]

Whats this liable talk?? This isn't an auto accident liability claim. It's guilty or not guilty.

I'm no lawyer. Didn't think you could find someone "guilty" in a civil trial.

Of course you can.

 

[werdnoynek]

I've read lots of Winston supporters bash Kinsman's credibility, and also point to the tox screen results to discredit her story. The article below is kind of a must-read for these folks, IMO.

https://www.push5.com/aboutlastnight.html

Some things are hard to detect... nothing was detected. Does that mean it was in her system?

Winston defenders point to the tox results as proof there wasn't anything except alcohol in her system. This article explains why that's a faulty conclusion.

The other big takeaway is that things in this case transpired almost exactly as the typical scene is described in the article.

That is a website which is basically advertising for their own product, you think they'd say anything else?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that. Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

I really don't think there should be anymore talk about this issue in this thread any longer since it's (apparently) irrelevant to his draft stock or to his potential as an NFL and fantasy asset - but I do give her a ton of credit if she goes through with this and doesn't grab a settlement to make it go away. To me that would speak volumes as to he voracity either positively (she takes it to court) or negatively (grabs a payday).

 

[davearm]

Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.

Actually if the evidence pointed that way he would have been charged and then convicted of the crime. Neither of those happened.

Not even a charge.

You should print this out, take it to your law school, and ask for your money back.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If this was only about money for her she wouldn't be suing FSU as well.

You guys are in complete denial.

That's certainly not true. Winston has deep pockets. FSU has deeper pockets.

 

[Grahamburn]

I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that. Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

I really don't think there should be anymore talk about this issue in this thread any longer since it's (apparently) irrelevant to his draft stock or to his potential as an NFL and fantasy asset - but I do give her a ton of credit if she goes through with this and doesn't grab a settlement to make it go away. To me that would speak volumes as to he voracity either positively (she takes it to court) or negatively (grabs a payday).

I agree with you. I don't pretend to know what happened. Her and her lawyers pursuing it to a verdict, especially considering the evidence or lack there of, would be telling.

 

[GregR]

Whats this liable talk?? This isn't an auto accident liability claim. It's guilty or not guilty.

I'm no lawyer. Didn't think you could find someone "guilty" in a civil trial.

Yeah there will still be a guilty / not guilty "verdict" handed down by a judge or jury... civil penalties are then paid.

Not a lawyer, but I believe guilty / not guilty are verdicts only in criminal cases.

Civil trials, the judge or jury will "find for" the plaintiff or defendant.

 

[FUBAR]

Repeat after me..."Jameis Winston found guilty of rape in his civil trial".

why the hell would anyone repeat that nonsense?

If this was only about money for her she wouldn't be suing FSU as well.

You guys are in complete denial.

That's certainly not true. Winston has deep pockets. FSU has deeper pockets.

yep. People who are out for money sue whomever can pay. Saying she's not out for money because she's suing FSU is... illogical.

 

[werdnoynek]

I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that. Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

I really don't think there should be anymore talk about this issue in this thread any longer since it's (apparently) irrelevant to his draft stock or to his potential as an NFL and fantasy asset - but I do give her a ton of credit if she goes through with this and doesn't grab a settlement to make it go away. To me that would speak volumes as to he voracity either positively (she takes it to court) or negatively (grabs a payday).

I agree with you. I don't pretend to know what happened. Her and her lawyers pursuing it to a verdict, especially considering the evidence or lack there of, would be telling.

I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that. Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

I really don't think there should be anymore talk about this issue in this thread any longer since it's (apparently) irrelevant to his draft stock or to his potential as an NFL and fantasy asset - but I do give her a ton of credit if she goes through with this and doesn't grab a settlement to make it go away. To me that would speak volumes as to he voracity either positively (she takes it to court) or negatively (grabs a payday).

Taking it to civil court almost always ends in settlement - whether it's prior or after a guilty decision. The only way she wont get a settlement out of the civil proceedings is if Winston is found not guilty and doesn't have a civil penalty to pay. She'll lose money then...

 

[werdnoynek]

Whats this liable talk?? This isn't an auto accident liability claim. It's guilty or not guilty.

I'm no lawyer. Didn't think you could find someone "guilty" in a civil trial.

Yeah there will still be a guilty / not guilty "verdict" handed down by a judge or jury... civil penalties are then paid.

Not a lawyer, but I believe guilty / not guilty are verdicts only in criminal cases.

Civil trials, the judge or jury will "find for" the plaintiff or defendant.

I believe you're right.

 

[Capella]

Once there are enough 0's in the deal it will be settled... it's a scare tactic by her attorney saying they're going to take this through hell and high water.

Try again.

Do you believe God answers prayers? If so, then you better start praying she settles.

Uhhhh...why?

 

[werdnoynek]

Once there are enough 0's in the deal it will be settled... it's a scare tactic by her attorney saying they're going to take this through hell and high water.

Try again.

Do you believe God answers prayers? If so, then you better start praying she settles.

Uhhhh...why?

So cstu is... wrong??

 

[Grahamburn]

I love this thread.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Taking it to civil court almost always ends in settlement - whether it's prior or after a guilty decision. The only way she wont get a settlement out of the civil proceedings is if Winston is found not guilty and doesn't have a civil penalty to pay. She'll lose money then...

If there is a decision it's not a settlement, it's a verdict and then there will be an award for damages. Of course the danger with taking it all the way is that she just may lose at trial, hence why I believe that if she takes this case all the way to verdict then she believes she was actually raped. I'm not sure of her legal arrangement, but it's likely her attorney is working on a contingency fee so she wouldn't owe anything (except maybe costs) if she loses. Her attorney working on a contingency fee (if true) will also say a lot if the firm takes the chance of going to verdict. Lawyers like to get paid, and would settle a case quicker if they didn't truly believe in it.

 

[werdnoynek]

Taking it to civil court almost always ends in settlement - whether it's prior or after a guilty decision. The only way she wont get a settlement out of the civil proceedings is if Winston is found not guilty and doesn't have a civil penalty to pay. She'll lose money then...

If there is a decision it's not a settlement, it's a verdict and then there will be an award for damages. Of course the danger with taking it all the way is that she just may lose at trial, hence why I believe that if she takes this case all the way to verdict then she believes she was actually raped. I'm not sure of her legal arrangement, but it's likely her attorney is working on a contingency fee so she wouldn't owe anything (except maybe costs) if she loses. Her attorney working on a contingency fee (if true) will also say a lot if the firm takes the chance of going to verdict. Lawyers like to get paid, and would settle a case quicker if they didn't truly believe in it.

I'm not a golfer.

 

[Stealthycat]

regardless, whatever team drafts his sorry thug personality will have to go through everything with him

a PR night mare in today's world

 

[Capella]

Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.

Actually if the evidence pointed that way he would have been charged and then convicted of the crime. Neither of those happened.Not even a charge.

You should print this out, take it to your law school, and ask for your money back.

No I'm pretty sure that's how it works in the real world. Message board law doesn't apply.

 

[Capella]

I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that.

Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

If this goes to trial and he's loses it's far worse for his reputation than whatever millions he has to pay.

Wut?

Repeat after me..."Jameis Winston found guilty of rape in his civil trial".

My God.

 

[FUBAR]

I love this thread.

 

[Capella]

Just so you guys know, the civil system never attempts to determine guilt. It is just there to determine liability.

In a thread full of dumb, that last Cstu quote really takes the cake.

 

[dhockster]

I've read lots of Winston supporters bash Kinsman's credibility, and also point to the tox screen results to discredit her story. The article below is kind of a must-read for these folks, IMO.

https://www.push5.com/aboutlastnight.html

Some things are hard to detect... nothing was detected. Does that mean it was in her system?

CSTU posted a link earlier in this thread that indicated that the drug test they did on Kinsman didn't test for Roofies or GHB. If that is true, then of course no roofies or GHB were detected.

Does that mean she was drugged? No, but it does make the argument that she wasn't drugged because the drug test detected nothing irrelevant if the drug test did not test for all rape related drugs.

 

[Stealthycat]

liability means responsibility means guilt

OJ Simpson was guilty of murder and Winston will be guilty of rape (if it goes to civil trial)

the Fl State locals didn't want to lose a football game at the expense of a woman being raped - fact

 

[dhockster]

Just so you guys know, the civil system never attempts to determine guilt. It is just there to determine liability.

In a thread full of dumb, that last Cstu quote really takes the cake.

I have been following this thread, and you, Grahamburn, and Werdnoynek are doing your best to keep up.

 

[davearm]

Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.

Actually if the evidence pointed that way he would have been charged and then convicted of the crime. Neither of those happened.Not even a charge.

You should print this out, take it to your law school, and ask for your money back.

No I'm pretty sure that's how it works in the real world. Message board law doesn't apply.

In the real world, prosecutors seek convictions when they think they can get convictions.

You're not much of an attorney if you think no charge = no evidence.

 

[FUBAR]

liability means responsibility means guilt

OJ Simpson was guilty of murder and Winston will be guilty of rape (if it goes to civil trial)

the Fl State locals didn't want to lose a football game at the expense of a woman being raped - fact

 

[Grahamburn]

You can't be in here without being a little dumb.

 

[IHEARTFF]

ITT, opinions are facts.

 

[IHEARTFF]

You can't be in here without being a little dumb.

Repeat after me..."Everyone ITT is guilty of being at least a little dumb."

 

[cstu]

If this was only about money for her she wouldn't be suing FSU as well.

You guys are in complete denial.

That's certainly not true. Winston has deep pockets. FSU has deeper pockets.

Regardless of the amount of money FSU has, she's going to have a much more difficult time proving FSU violated her Title IX rights.

Winston wants this to go away and will gladly pay her millions without her even stepping foot in a courtroom.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If this was only about money for her she wouldn't be suing FSU as well.

You guys are in complete denial.

That's certainly not true. Winston has deep pockets. FSU has deeper pockets.

Regardless of the amount of money FSU has, she's going to have a much more difficult time proving FSU violated her Title IX rights.

How does that make what you originally said true?

Even if she has a tougher burden in an action against FSU, the ultimate goal could still be to force a settlement.

 

[Capella]

liability means responsibility means guilt

No it really doesn't.

 

[cstu]

If this was only about money for her she wouldn't be suing FSU as well.

You guys are in complete denial.

That's certainly not true. Winston has deep pockets. FSU has deeper pockets.

Regardless of the amount of money FSU has, she's going to have a much more difficult time proving FSU violated her Title IX rights.

How does that make what you originally said true?

Even if she has a tougher burden in an action against FSU, the ultimate goal could still be to force a settlement.

Because she doesn't need the Title IX lawsuit to force Winston to settle. There is absolutely no way he is let this go to trial if he can pay her off.

 

[Capella]

Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.

Actually if the evidence pointed that way he would have been charged and then convicted of the crime. Neither of those happened.Not even a charge.

You should print this out, take it to your law school, and ask for your money back.

No I'm pretty sure that's how it works in the real world. Message board law doesn't apply.

In the real world, prosecutors seek convictions when they think they can get convictions.

You're not much of an attorney if you think no charge = no evidence.

I didn't say that. You did.

 

[B-Deep]

I expected everyone in here to be the absolute best nfl talent evaluates possible, the fact that we have so many legal experts, sexual assault experts, and people who can down right see the future has come as quite a surprise

If you KNOW what happened with Jameis and his accused you are a fool, because you do not and cannot know, you can simply have an opinion based on what you have read.

if anyone here has interviewed him, the accuser, the cops, and any other witnesses let me know and I'll pm you an apology and say your opinion at least seems based on some facts

 

[werdnoynek]

I expected everyone in here to be the absolute best nfl talent evaluates possible, the fact that we have so many legal experts, sexual assault experts, and people who can down right see the future has come as quite a surprise

If you KNOW what happened with Jameis and his accused you are a fool, because you do not and cannot know, you can simply have an opinion based on what you have read.

if anyone here has interviewed him, the accuser, the cops, and any other witnesses let me know and I'll pm you an apology and say your opinion at least seems based on some facts

Amen.

I like to act like I know what I'm saying because it just seem like such a good time.

Look at how much fun cstu is having.

 

[cstu]

liability means responsibility means guilt

No it really doesn't.

We have to be careful about throwing around legal terms around here with Johnnie Cochran on the case.

Guilty - in criminal court the liability must be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Liable - in civil court the crime must be proven more likely than not (i.e. 51% chance defendant is liable).

Correct enough for you, Johnnie?