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QB Jameis Winston, NYG (7 Viewers)

Greg Cosell and Ross Tucker both had Mariota going first and Winston falling to six or seven. Earlier in the year Matt Waldman (whoever he is) said he wouldn't take Winston in the top six (ditto Mariota).

1 day, 21 hours, 48 minutes to go...

 
cstu said:
jurb26 said:
Proust Loves Cake said:
jurb26 said:
Proust Loves Cake said:
jurb26 said:
It's cool that so many people with Internet access think they make a difference in what actually happens to Winston.
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Wait. So, what's your purpose of posting?
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Well, as outlandish as it sounds in this thread. To talk about football.
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Is that what your post above was? Talking football?
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Well, I also have to clean up CSTU falsely here and there as well.I mean he is trying to claim me as FSU fan. You have to draw the line somewhere.
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Then I don't understand why you are in denial about Winston.
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I'm able to be objective about a player from a team I don't like. That makes me in denial?Look in the mirror.

 
Raider Nation said:
Anyhoo, you gotta take Mariota first. Can't take a chance on Jameis getting all rapey on the fine Tampa women.
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So many unknowns with MM. So much we just haven't seen him do. The under center stuff is completely new to him. Calling plays is completely new to him.

Because a guy can do three or four quarterback things really well, do we assume that he'll be able to do all the other quarterback things at an exceptional level?

And, can it work if a guy's really good at a few things, and just adequate at others? Because you know the good coaches are going to take away what you "want" to do. That can ruin you. Look at Kaepernick.

It's all fascinating.

 
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Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.

 
I don't see it either with Mariota. I give him some benefit of the doubt for being a smart, hard-working kid with a lot of natural gifts. But, the practice and repetition around what he's going to be required to do in the NFL just isn't there. So, I would take a pass on him in the first 5 picks at least.

As for selecting Winston, you have to be convinced that his entire personality structure will be get an overhaul. Beyond the likelihood that he will have some legal involvement at least once in his pro career that costs him time away from the team, he looks destined to be a sloppy, careless boob who, like Josh Freeman, Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell and countless other examples of "talented" guys who don't get it, will flame out of the league in 3-5 years. Whoever takes him, wherever they take him, they're flushing that pick down the toilet.

 
Raider Nation said:
Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.
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Many disagree. Myself, I'll just have to wait 1 day, 20 hours, 53 minutes and change. I'm looking forward to seeing these careers play out.

 
The comparison of Mariota to Kaepernick is understandable, but lazy. Kaep seems like a moron, and he throws every ball 100mph. Mariota seems like he'll lock himself in the film room until he's great, and he actually makes throws with touch on the ball.

 
Old Smiley said:
Raider Nation said:
Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.
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Many disagree. Myself, I'll just have to wait 1 day, 20 hours, 53 minutes and change. I'm looking forward to seeing these careers play out.
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Same. Regardless of what I think about Winston it will be entertaining.

 
Raider Nation said:
Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.
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Gruden's opinion last year was that Manziel should go #1 and every team should have taken him until he went off the board.

That guy forgot more football yesterday than I'll ever know, but I wouldn't hold his draft opinions too high. Really, I wouldn't hold anybody's that high.

 
Grahamburn said:
cstu said:
IndyHavoc said:
Yeah, being drafted #1 overall and getting paid an enormous amount of $$ will really get him grounded, humbled, and hungry to work and improve!!
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It will be validation that everything he's done is working, why would he change?
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Everything he's done is working. He's lost one game in his whole college career.
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Assuming by "he" you mean Jimbo Fisher, yes he is doing very well.

 
As the holder of the 6th pick in my superflex league I certainly hope he goes 1.1 because I sure don't want him and hopefully that puts him in the top 5.

 
Capella said:
Raider Nation said:
Not sure if you guys saw the special with Gruden and Kiper that was on a little while ago. cstu posted some of the transcript above. Gruden makes a pretty great case for Mariota going #1, and I'm inclined to defer to his opinion on the matter.
Click to expand...
Gruden's opinion last year was that Manziel should go #1 and every team should have taken him until he went off the board. That guy forgot more football yesterday than I'll ever know, but I wouldn't hold his draft opinions too high. Really, I wouldn't hold anybody's that high.
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I agree with this.
 
Old Smiley said:
Raider Nation said:
Anyhoo, you gotta take Mariota first. Can't take a chance on Jameis getting all rapey on the fine Tampa women.
Click to expand...
So many unknowns with MM. So much we just haven't seen him do. The under center stuff is completely new to him. Calling plays is completely new to him.Because a guy can do three or four quarterback things really well, do we assume that he'll be able to do all the other quarterback things at an exceptional level?

And, can it work if a guy's really good at a few things, and just adequate at others? Because you know the good coaches are going to take away what you "want" to do. That can ruin you. Look at Kaepernick.

It's all fascinating.
Click to expand...
Chances are this could be like the 2006 draft for RBs where Brown, Benson, and Williams all went early and none were worth it. But for QBs, of course. And not jusy because MM played in a gimmick O, or because Winston is a fat thief, but just because a good # of 1st round Qbs don't meet expectations. And there is no Luck in this class to bump these guys down to where they probably should be.

 
Old Smiley said:
Raider Nation said:
Anyhoo, you gotta take Mariota first. Can't take a chance on Jameis getting all rapey on the fine Tampa women.
Click to expand...
So many unknowns with MM. So much we just haven't seen him do. The under center stuff is completely new to him. Calling plays is completely new to him.Because a guy can do three or four quarterback things really well, do we assume that he'll be able to do all the other quarterback things at an exceptional level?

And, can it work if a guy's really good at a few things, and just adequate at others? Because you know the good coaches are going to take away what you "want" to do. That can ruin you. Look at Kaepernick.

It's all fascinating.
Click to expand...
Chances are this could be like the 2006 draft for RBs where Brown, Benson, and Williams all went early and none were worth it. But for QBs, of course. And not jusy because MM played in a gimmick O, or because Winston is a fat thief, but just because a good # of 1st round Qbs don't meet expectations. And there is no Luck in this class to bump these guys down to where they probably should be.

 
Vjax and Evans are salivating at the thought of Jaboo throwing them tuddys this season.

 
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A great excuse for not showing up in Chicago would be if he was already in Tampa. I doubt the Bucs announce it ahead of time though.

 
jabarony said:
Old Smiley said:
Raider Nation said:
Anyhoo, you gotta take Mariota first. Can't take a chance on Jameis getting all rapey on the fine Tampa women.
Click to expand...
So many unknowns with MM. So much we just haven't seen him do. The under center stuff is completely new to him. Calling plays is completely new to him.Because a guy can do three or four quarterback things really well, do we assume that he'll be able to do all the other quarterback things at an exceptional level?

And, can it work if a guy's really good at a few things, and just adequate at others? Because you know the good coaches are going to take away what you "want" to do. That can ruin you. Look at Kaepernick.

It's all fascinating.
Click to expand...
Chances are this could be like the 2006 draft for RBs where Brown, Benson, and Williams all went early and none were worth it. But for QBs, of course. And not jusy because MM played in a gimmick O, or because Winston is a fat thief, but just because a good # of 1st round Qbs don't meet expectations. And there is no Luck in this class to bump these guys down to where they probably should be.
Click to expand...
There isn't even a Bortles or Cam in this class...

 
Frostillicus said:
I think Jameis will be a pretty good pro QB. I also think the off field stuff is way overblown.
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It is overblown. Obviously the accusation is serious, but we'll never know, and nobody thinks Jameis has a Cosby issue here. He can now afford all the crab legs and soda he wants. All he has to do is put these things behind him and go play football.

It's easy for message board posters, rival GM's, personnel folks, media types, and the like to take the moral high ground, crucify Jameis, and anonymously boast how they'd never select him with the #1 pick. It's not so easy for the franchise making the decision that hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade.

 
Grahamburn said:
Frostillicus said:
I think Jameis will be a pretty good pro QB. I also think the off field stuff is way overblown.
Click to expand...
It is overblown. Obviously the accusation is serious, but we'll never know, and nobody thinks Jameis has a Cosby issue here. He can now afford all the crab legs and soda he wants. All he has to do is put these things behind him and go play football.

It's easy for message board posters, rival GM's, personnel folks, media types, and the like to take the moral high ground, crucify Jameis, and anonymously boast how they'd never select him with the #1 pick. It's not so easy for the franchise making the decision that hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade.
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There are not one, but two rape lawsuits out there involving him - one against FSU and one against him personally.

Yet off the field stuff is overblown...right.

 
cstu said:
rockaction said:
Chris Brown of Smart Football grades the top four QBs (Petty, Hundley, Mariota, Winston) over at Grantland. Scores Winston highest, picks Mariota.

https://grantland.com/features/2015-nfl-draft-quarterback-evaluation-formula-jameis-winston-marcus-mariota-brett-hundley-bryce-petty/
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Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.
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Actually if the evidence pointed that way he would have been charged and then convicted of the crime. Neither of those happened.

Not even a charge.

:ptts:

 
Capella said:
cstu said:
rockaction said:
Chris Brown of Smart Football grades the top four QBs (Petty, Hundley, Mariota, Winston) over at Grantland. Scores Winston highest, picks Mariota.

https://grantland.com/features/2015-nfl-draft-quarterback-evaluation-formula-jameis-winston-marcus-mariota-brett-hundley-bryce-petty/
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Exactly. I don't care how well Winston played in the 2nd half or how much he throws with anticipation - the evidence points to him being a rapist.
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Actually if the evidence pointed that way he would have been charged and then convicted of the crime. Neither of those happened.

Not even a charge.

:ptts:
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:bs: and you know it.

That's why she's suing FSU.

 
cstu said:
Grahamburn said:
Frostillicus said:
I think Jameis will be a pretty good pro QB. I also think the off field stuff is way overblown.
Click to expand...
It is overblown. Obviously the accusation is serious, but we'll never know, and nobody thinks Jameis has a Cosby issue here. He can now afford all the crab legs and soda he wants. All he has to do is put these things behind him and go play football.

It's easy for message board posters, rival GM's, personnel folks, media types, and the like to take the moral high ground, crucify Jameis, and anonymously boast how they'd never select him with the #1 pick. It's not so easy for the franchise making the decision that hasn't won a playoff game in over a decade.
Click to expand...
There are not one, but two rape lawsuits out there involving him - one against FSU and one against him personally.

Yet off the field stuff is overblown...right.
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Rich people get sued. The Bucs are being sued by Lawrence Tynes right now.

Those lawsuits will be settled out of court. Other than putting a minor dent in Winston's wallet I don't see how it's going to effect him in the slightest going forward.

 
Grahamburn said:
Those lawsuits will be settled out of court. Other than putting a minor dent in Winston's wallet I don't see how it's going to effect him in the slightest going forward.
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She's taking the FSU case to court and this doesn't sound like she's planning to settle with Winston:

Erica Kinsman's attorney, John Clune, released the following statement:

"Today, a very brave young woman filed her lawsuit against Jameis Winston for the sexual battery that she reported to police in December 2012. Over the past two years, this survivor of sexual violence has had to endure a delinquent police investigation, a hostile FSU athletic department, and Mr. Winston's bullying lawyer. But the more these forces sought to silence her, the more determined she has become to step forward and hold Jameis Winston accountable for his actions. With the support of her family, she is prepared for this fight and for the counterclaims and the smear campaigns that will surely follow...

..We know that quite often the public is quick to support the cause against sexual violence but at times can be slow to support the individual women who come forward. We hope that this case becomes a model for understanding what real sexual assault cases look like as well as the barriers that survivors face in coming forward. Perhaps more than anything, Erica hopes to show other survivors the strength and empowerment that can come from refusing to stay silent no matter what forces are against you...

...Jameis Winston in contrast has proven time and time again to be an entitled athlete who believes he can take what he wants. He took something here that he was not entitled to and he hurt someone. There are consequences for that behavior and since others have refused to hold him accountable, our client will."
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She's also requested a jury trial in the case against Winston.

 
I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that. Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.

 
Once there are enough 0's in the deal it will be settled... it's a scare tactic by her attorney saying they're going to take this through hell and high water.

Try again.

 
Grahamburn said:
I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that.

Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.
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If this goes to trial and he's loses it's far worse for his reputation than whatever millions he has to pay.

 
werdnoynek said:
Once there are enough 0's in the deal it will be settled... it's a scare tactic by her attorney saying they're going to take this through hell and high water.

Try again.
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Do you believe God answers prayers? If so, then you better start praying she settles.

 
If this was only about money for her she wouldn't be suing FSU as well.

You guys are in complete denial.

 
Grahamburn said:
cstu said:
Grahamburn said:
I'd be pretty surprised if either of those cases saw a courtroom. More power to her if she goes through that.

Anyway, my point remains, the worst that can happen to Winston is he has to give her a few million.
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If this goes to trial and he's loses it's far worse for his reputation than whatever millions he has to pay.
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Wut?
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Repeat after me..."Jameis Winston found guilty of rape in his civil trial".

 
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