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QB Jameis Winston, NYG (5 Viewers)

It would be a smarter pick, but still a bad pick. :shrug:

Plenty of QB's with at least Winston/Mariota-ish likelihood to succeed available later in the draft. These guys are all projects with obvious pitfalls, so you may as well pay pennies instead of dollars. Ain't no Leonard Williamses in the second. You've got a chance to take your strength and make it a dominant force.

Alas, the good GM's (for obvious reasons) don't get a lot of picks at the top of the draft, so we get this sort of clownshow instead.
:no:

 
No problem at all if the owner of a team says no to character concerns. Drugs, sexual assault, domestic violence, whatever. If a team decided it's not going to risk it, tough to argue that.

 
A report surfaced this week that one of the Bucs’ owners has raised some internal questions about the the community relations impact should they choose Winston. On Friday, Ron Jaworski was a guest on CSN’s Philly Sports Talk and said he is picking up buzz that Marcus Mariota is going to be Tampa’s selection.


The latest I'm hearing now from my sources around the league, who are pretty wired in, is that he's going to go number one now to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers," said Jaworski.
Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/birds247/2015/04/11/jaws-mariotas-stock-is-rising/#Fb2iHRgiyfABZ5Zq.99
Mariota and not Jameis going #1 overall?
I think it's really amusing this notion that Glazer's daughter could step in and overrule all the males in that organization.
Or she could convince them that it's not in the team's best interest to draft a QB accused of rape with civil trials looming. The first impression most NFL fans are going to get of Winston is as an accused rapist, not great for the brand.
Of course that'd be the idea.

I was more highlighting the fascinating gender dynamic at work here. The NFL is basically devoid of females in football-related decisionmaking roles.

 
Yeah Steelers Nation will forever be tarnished because Big Ben is still a Steeler
Ben was already a Super Bowl winning QB when the rape case happened.

He would be thought of much differently today if he had been in the middle of a rape case when he was drafted. Absolutely would not have been a Steeler.

 
Here's what sold them.

Five Buccaneer officials made the 2,500-mile trip from Tampa to Eugene, Oregon on Tuesday morning in order to put Mariota – a potential target for the first-overall draft pick the team will exercise on April 30 – through the paces. With Head Coach Lovie Smith, General Manager Jason Licht and Director of Player Personnel Jon Robinson looking on, Offensive Coordinator Dirk Koetter and Quarterbacks Coach Mike Bajakian directed a fast-paced, 45-throw session that allowed the former Oregon quarterback to show off his arm strength and footwork.
"As much as tape as we've watched and as many times as we've met with Marcus, to see him throw live and be right next to him -- and us getting to say what throws and what drops, us actually running the workout -- there's a lot of value there," said Koetter. "I thought he was outstanding."
 
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The key guy in all of this is new Bucs OC Dirk Koetter. Last year, some dude nobody can name or remember ran the Bucs sorry offense. Koetter is expected to make some key decisions on how to build his offense. Given his choice of QB, if he really likes Mariota more than Winston, that settles that. I'm sure Lovie won't try to overrule him or talk him out of it, and neither will the Tampa brass. It's no coincidence all of a sudden you see reports of the Jets interested in trading up for Winston. He should be available.

 
What the #### is going on?!
Capella is pissing and moaning that his guy is now considered a bum by all 32 NFL teams. Man, I was so looking forward to the Bucs making this fatal mistake. Now if they don't who will? Can't imagine many takers for his suckage.

Edit: Hope you are right Capella.

 
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Proust Loves Cake is the kind of guy who is on a message board because he has no friends in RL. What a miserable F.

 
Eric Galko retweeted

NFL Philosophy@NFLosophy · 58m 58 minutes ago

The Bucs plan on drafting Marcus Mariota if they can't find a suitable option to trade down.

Eric Galko@OptimumScouting · 14m 14 minutes ago

There are smokescreens out there. But I can't believe @NFLosophy is one of them. His Mariota-Bucs report has everything in flux again for me
NFL Philosophy has been out of the NFL for a while (he worked for Bucks under Raheem), so I don't know how reliable his sources would be. There has been a complete turnover of everyone in the bucs organization besides the owners. He doesn't know anyone there.

 
Understand that when we talk about "chance of success," we're talking about something entirely different than "ceiling."

A player like Winston has a floor that's both so low, and so likely, that (no matter how awesomely high his physical skills make his perceived ceiling) he's no more than fifth or sixth among the QB's with minimal-or-better NFL skills to make it in the NFL. He's a terrible wager, IMO. :shrug:

 
I'll say it again, the best move for the Bucs (if they really want to draft this bum) is to trade down and get as much as possible from a team that wants Mariota (there are a handful that would take him). No other team has much interest, if any, in Winston. Teams that need a QB haven't totally given up on their 1st mistake: Cle, NYJ, BUF, WASH. Can't see them wasting a 1st on Winston. TENN won't take him at 2.

They could easily trade down to the back end of the 1st and get Winston.

 
The key guy in all of this is new Bucs OC Dirk Koetter. Last year, some dude nobody can name or remember ran the Bucs sorry offense. Koetter is expected to make some key decisions on how to build his offense. Given his choice of QB, if he really likes Mariota more than Winston, that settles that. I'm sure Lovie won't try to overrule him or talk him out of it, and neither will the Tampa brass. It's no coincidence all of a sudden you see reports of the Jets interested in trading up for Winston. He should be available.
What I posted way back in January:

"I'm sure if it does work out that it's a rookie quarterback, somewhere down the line, those things that I learned from (Gabbert), I won't repeat the same mistakes I made last time," Koetter said.

But Koetter will have input on the Bucs' choice of quarterbacks. The most important trait at that position, he said, is processing information quickly.

"Playing quarterback in the NFL, things are coming at you fast and furious and if you can't process information, it's tough to be successful," Koetter said. "Second would be toughness because when you play quarterback in the NFL, you're going to have to demonstrate toughness on a daily basis and certainly every Sunday. Intelligence, arm strength, accuracy, mobility those things are important as well. But the ability to process information and make great decisions would be No. 1 on my list."
 
It didn’t surprise anybody that when Oregon coach Mark Helfrich was asked who the biggest influences were in his career, the first name he mentioned was former Ducks coach Chip Kelly.

The second coach he named shouldn’t surprise anybody either, even if some armchair experts among Falcons’ fandom would disagree: Dirk Koetter.

Helfrich has overseen Oregon’s prolific offense since 2009, four years as the offensive coordinator under Kelly and the last two as head coach, leading his team to this year’s Rose Bowl and college football playoff semifinal against Florida State.

Helfrich started his career as a grad assistant at Oregon in 1997, when Koetter was the Ducks’ offensive coordinator. When Koetter got the Boise State head coaching job in 1998, he took Helfrich with him as his quarterbacks coach. When Koetter moved on to Arizona State in 2001, Helfrich went with him again. The two were together for nine straight seasons.

So it follows that when asked about the two biggest coaching influences in his career, Helfrich mentioned Kelly, then Koetter, whose future is up in the air after the firing of head coach Mike Smith. He also referenced former Falcons head coach Dan Henning, whom Koetter worked for at Boston College in 1994-95.

“Dirk was the head coach at Arizona State, Boise State. He was the offensive coordinator at Oregon when I was a graduate assistant,” Helfrich said. “And then a combination of a lot of other people. Dan Henning, indirectly. I’ve never met Dan Henning, but studying a bunch of stuff when Dirk was his offensive coordinator at Boston College, going back to all those Washington Redskins days and kind of combining that with spread principles, option principles, all the passing game stuff that we’ve done. Just an amalgamation of all that stuff.”

Earlier this season, Koetter told Ray Glier of Bleacher Report that Helfrich “can do it all in his head. He doesn’t have to draw the pictures on the board. Not many people can do that. … He sees the game through the quarterback’s eyes. We all have ideas, but if your quarterback can’t execute those ideas, they are lines on a paper. Mark is as smart a football guy as I know.”
 
I was reading and hearing rumors over the weekend that NYJ are in love with Winston and might be willing to make a RG3 type offer for him.

I have no idea if that's at all true but they basically said NYJ are not willing to trade up for Mariota, only Winston.

If TB can get that kind of deal for 1.01 I thinkbthey should take it and hope to land Mariota at later.

 
I was reading and hearing rumors over the weekend that NYJ are in love with Winston and might be willing to make a RG3 type offer for him.

I have no idea if that's at all true but they basically said NYJ are not willing to trade up for Mariota, only Winston.

If TB can get that kind of deal for 1.01 I thinkbthey should take it and hope to land Mariota at later.
No need to trade up - he'll be there at 6.

 
As an interested bystander, I don't like that the Bucs came to their senses and drafting Mariota. Winston doesn't have the same market. He'll slide to the Raiders at 4, and at that point the Raiders will take a 3rd or 4th round pick (or whatever table scrap they can get to move back to the Jets pick at 6). And they should still be able to get thier prime target Cooper. Not the sexy trade down I was looking for, but if it gets us Cooper, I'll be happy. Or like said above, he could just slide to them naturally.

 
:lmao: you guys are the never ending comedy troupe.

Bucs are taking Winston. Have fun with the rumors while they last.

Ps... @TomahawkNation: CBS: #FSU's coaches told NFL teams only 5 of Jameis WInston's 18 INTs were his fault http://t.co/8w3zDYzfhxhttp://t.co/fSEFkUK7ma
He admitted on Gruden's QB Camp that at least 6 of them were his fault from forcing it to Rashad Greene.

Did you watch it?
Yes. And if he said what really happened, you would've rushed to your computer to say he threw his teammates under the bus.

 
If you don't think he can fall in the draft think about this...he's been touted as the #1 pick all offseason so if the Bucs pass on him that's signal that they know something other teams don't. Teams are going to be wary of drafting him.

The Titans could pass because they need Leonard Williams. It's unlikely the Redskins want to put Winston and Griffin in the same locker room but a draft day trade of Griffin to the Eagles could happen if Winston falls to them.

 
:lmao: at LOD saying I am pissed and moaning.

Lod will you be able to watch on draft night, or will your cross burning practice get in the way?

 
:lmao: at LOD saying I am pissed and moaning.

Lod will you be able to watch on draft night, or will your cross burning practice get in the way?
Yeah, not pissed but you've been hurling personal insults at me this entire thread. :rolleyes:
Me calling you a dope doesn't mean I'm pissed. It just means you're a dope.
"Ad hominem arguments are the last resort of thoughtless people who, instead of arguing their points with class and precision, choose to attack the character of their opponent."

 
If you don't think he can fall in the draft think about this...he's been touted as the #1 pick all offseason so if the Bucs pass on him that's signal that they know something other teams don't. Teams are going to be wary of drafting him.
This is just a silly argument. TB knows something the other teams don't? As if the other teams aren't going to do their homework and just piggyback off whatever TB decides. That's completely ludicrous. Teams will all come to their own evaluation. It's one if the reasons the draft is so entertaining.

 
Capella said:
:lmao: at LOD saying I am pissed and moaning.

Lod will you be able to watch on draft night, or will your cross burning practice get in the way?
Wouldn't miss this one for the world. I'll laugh at them and you if they take Winston. I'll laugh at how far he falls if they don't. Then I'll laugh at whatever bad team makes their team worse when they take him. I really want the Bucs to take him because it will put this thread up there with the Tim Tebow & Vince Young threads where I win and you lose.

 
Capella said:
:lmao: at LOD saying I am pissed and moaning.

Lod will you be able to watch on draft night, or will your cross burning practice get in the way?
Wouldn't miss this one for the world. I'll laugh at them and you if they take Winston. I'll laugh at how far he falls if they don't. Then I'll laugh at whatever bad team makes their team worse when they take him. I really want the Bucs to take him because it will put this thread up there with the Tim Tebow & Vince Young threads where I win and you lose.
We all bow down to your impressive history of picking QBs on the message board.

 
Capella said:
:lmao: at LOD saying I am pissed and moaning.

Lod will you be able to watch on draft night, or will your cross burning practice get in the way?
Wouldn't miss this one for the world. I'll laugh at them and you if they take Winston. I'll laugh at how far he falls if they don't. Then I'll laugh at whatever bad team makes their team worse when they take him. I really want the Bucs to take him because it will put this thread up there with the Tim Tebow & Vince Young threads where I win and you lose.
We all bow down to your impressive history of picking QBs on the message board.
As you should. You finally said something that is correct in this thread.

 
jurb26 said:
cstu said:
If you don't think he can fall in the draft think about this...he's been touted as the #1 pick all offseason so if the Bucs pass on him that's signal that they know something other teams don't. Teams are going to be wary of drafting him.
This is just a silly argument. TB knows something the other teams don't? As if the other teams aren't going to do their homework and just piggyback off whatever TB decides. That's completely ludicrous.
Well it happened in Draft Day.

 
jurb26 said:
cstu said:
If you don't think he can fall in the draft think about this...he's been touted as the #1 pick all offseason so if the Bucs pass on him that's signal that they know something other teams don't. Teams are going to be wary of drafting him.
This is just a silly argument. TB knows something the other teams don't? As if the other teams aren't going to do their homework and just piggyback off whatever TB decides. That's completely ludicrous.Teams will all come to their own evaluation. It's one if the reasons the draft is so entertaining.
Name a team who has spent more time with him? If they don't trust him to be their QB then there's something wrong. The Titans would be fools to draft Winston when they could have a sure thing Leonard Williams knowing the Bucs after all of their meetings and research didn't want him.

The Bucs admitted to spying on Blackmon and took him off their board when they found out he was at the bar too much. They then traded the pick to the Jaguars who selected Blackmon. They appear to know what they're doing when it comes to spying on players.

 
jurb26 said:
cstu said:
If you don't think he can fall in the draft think about this...he's been touted as the #1 pick all offseason so if the Bucs pass on him that's signal that they know something other teams don't. Teams are going to be wary of drafting him.
This is just a silly argument. TB knows something the other teams don't? As if the other teams aren't going to do their homework and just piggyback off whatever TB decides. That's completely ludicrous.Teams will all come to their own evaluation. It's one if the reasons the draft is so entertaining.
Name a team who has spent more time with him? If they don't trust him to be their QB then there's something wrong. The Titans would be fools to draft Winston when they could have a sure thing Leonard Williams knowing the Bucs after all of their meetings and research didn't want him.

The Bucs admitted to spying on Blackmon and took him off their board when they found out he was at the bar too much. They then traded the pick to the Jaguars who selected Blackmon. They appear to know what they're doing when it comes to spying on players.
I don't know who's spent the most time with him and neither do you.
 
CSTU can't stay out of the Mariota thread for 5 seconds, but now if he goes #1 it's a huge warning sign for Winston?

So...you're saying Winston is clearly the better player?

 
CSTU can't stay out of the Mariota thread for 5 seconds, but now if he goes #1 it's a huge warning sign for Winston?

So...you're saying Winston is clearly the better player?
Over 160 post, approaching news-bot Faust as the only competition for most in the thread. Amazingly, he continues to find ways to look less and less credible.

 
CSTU can't stay out of the Mariota thread for 5 seconds, but now if he goes #1 it's a huge warning sign for Winston?

So...you're saying Winston is clearly the better player?
I've said all along that Winston is football smart, has all the tools you want in a QB, and played in a NFL style offense. A guy with his physical ability and ability to stand in the pocket to deliver the ball SHOULD be the #1 pick. The only reasons not to draft him #1 are his character and INT's. The INT's are a big deal but he can play in the NFL even if he throws too many picks (i.e. Cutler) so to pass on him it would have to be because of his character.

Mariota makes better decisions, seems easy to coach, and is a great character guy - that's why I said the Bucs should draft him over Winston. He comes with a lot more questions about his ability to play under center and throw from the pocket.

 
CSTU can't stay out of the Mariota thread for 5 seconds, but now if he goes #1 it's a huge warning sign for Winston?

So...you're saying Winston is clearly the better player?
Over 160 post, approaching news-bot Faust as the only competition for most in the thread.Amazingly, he continues to find ways to look less and less credible.
Y-yet it's looking like I'm right.

 
:lmao:

Hey, I'm not cracking on the Bucs here, but if the Bucs pass on a guy, I don't really see that being the worst indictment of a player.

"Hey, the Bucs passed on him, we better pass on him too, because they obviously know what they are doing!"

A cynical person might call that a vote in his favor.

 
Ryan Leaf/Peyton Manning pre-draft article:

Day & Night
By Stephen Rodrick
ESPN The Magazine
One is a little bit country. The other, a little bit rock 'n' roll. Peyton Manning loves crooning along with C&W star Kenny Chesney. You might find Ryan Leaf backstage at a Matchbox 20 concert begging for the mike. Manning studies for his masters. Ryan dropped out. Son of Archie, Peyton exudes football royalty. Down in the Big Easy, Manning the Younger is crown prince. Leaf? His dad sells insurance. To some in Montana, Ryan's the prince of darkness.

Heroes and villains. Black hats and white hats. Good and evil. That's the American way. Pick a side. This year's NFL Draft provides another tantalizing choice to divide us. You've got the No. 1 pick: Who's it going to be? Peyton Manning, everybody's All-American with perfect genes? Or Ryan Leaf, Favre-like gunslinger, bully enough to flick away 300-pound linemen?

To answer that question, I crisscrossed the nation. Pullman to Knoxville. Eleven bags of peanuts later, I've reached my conclusion. The envelope please ...

Nice try. Keep reading.

***

Ryan Leaf looks like Chuck Wepner. Or at least his stomach does.

Clad in black trunks, dripping white towel and a gold No. 16 medallion, Leaf strides into the Pullman, Wash., Holiday Inn Express lobby. A 6'5" sprinkler, he rains all over the carpet. No one minds. Here in Pullman, possibly the inspiration for the Neil Young album Everyone Knows This Is Nowhere, Leaf could wear Underoos into the lobby and everyone would fawn. Take a team to its first Rose Bowl in 66 years and that happens.

"Hey, man, mind if we do the interview in the Jacuzzi?"

Nope. Good way to size up the merchandise. As Leaf settles into the bubbles, his belly metamorphoses into a polka accordion. Like the Cascades, it has slopes and crevices. Maybe Ryan went to McDonald's and said Supersize me. "I didn't work out for January and February," he says, giving a caught-in-the-cookie-jar grin. "I was going around on the banquet circuit, up to two in the morning schmoozing, eating bad. Guys like me can put on 10-15 pounds in a week. I was 261, now I'm down to 242. Now I've got a trainer."

No, he's not John Goodman. But don't forget, Wepner and his jelly belly went 15 rounds with Ali. Besides, Leaf is a big, fat breath of fresh air in this era of hyper-protected jocks. He's just a good old boy meaning no harm.

As a kid in Great Falls, Montana, Leaf would don his Steelers jersey, set the microwave timer and lead his own two-minute drill. Mouthpiece included. The drive always ended in a touchdown. "I'd dive over the couch, wreck lamps," he remembers. "I thought I was Terry Bradshaw. I'd sure like to meet him some day." Reality wasn't quite as kind. At Charles M. Russell High, Leaf's cockiness caused problems, particularly on the basketball court. If he wasn't making 360-degree dunks -- he has a 35-inch vertical -- Leaf was thundering down the court imitating a 747 after a basket. Once he gave a crowd the finger.

On the football field, Leaf led Russell to a state championship his junior year. But no all-state, no retired jersey. Part of it involved following a Montana legend. Before Leaf, Dave Dickenson, an honor student, led the school to two state championships. Dickenson then piloted Montana to a 1995 1-AA title. Leaf was Johnny Depp replacing Michael Landon. Bad blood lingers. When the Great Falls Tribune did a Heisman poll last year, some citizens wrote in trashing Leaf's attitude.

"They retired my jersey here at Washington State about two weeks ago," Leaf says, turning the whirlpool jets on full blast. "It brought me to tears, something I hadn't done since seventh grade. Then I was back home at Christmastime, and now they want to retire my jersey. It's like, 'You're kidding me.' I never want my jersey hanging up there." Leaf no longer goes to Great Falls. Instead, he drives his beat-up Isuzu Rodeo to his grandparents' cabin 50 miles outside of town. "When people ask where I'm from, I tell them Washington, because that's where I feel the most comforted by the people," Leaf says. He breaks into a goofy grin. "I tell people I'm grounded and humble because I'm from the state of Montana, and they made me that way."

Ironically, Leaf's coach, Mike Price, says the same cockiness that turned off Great Falls made Leaf a "messiah" in Pullman. Price first saw Leaf's swagger when he quarterbacked the scout team in 1994, going nose-to-nose with the nation's No. 1 defense. The next year, the legend was born against archrival Washington in Seattle. "We send the quarterbacks out a little early so they don't get psyched out by the crowd," Price recalls. "All 75,000 start booing. Ryan, a freshman, marches out to the 50-yard line and starts waving his arms, 'C'mon, let's go, I'm here. Hey, Cougars, I'm leading you guys to the promised land. Screw you, guys. Boo me, I love it.' " Leaf lost the game, but threw for 291 yards.

He says his brashness is a media concoction. "I'm actually pretty reserved," Leaf argues, his waterlogged skin puckering. "I just like to have fun out there. I'm not the type of guy who goes to members of my team or the other team and says, 'Hey, I'm awesome,' because I can improve in so many ways."

Maybe. But he did yell, "Who's the only quarterback to beat USC?" after the Cougars won in the L.A. Coliseum for the first time in 40 years. He also whizzed a football, à la Albert Belle, within inches of a Spokane sportswriter's head after the journalist criticized a teammate. "I gave him a little buzz," says Leaf nonchalantly. "If I wanted to hit him, I would have hit him."

All these episodes were overlooked because Leaf backed up his braggadocio. Staying in Pullman last summer, Leaf worked on his long ball endlessly. Opposing coaches were amazed by the improvement. Suddenly, Leaf had the ability to float a ball downfield 60 yards with touch. Come January, the Cougars were 10-1 and one second away from possibly dousing Michigan's national title hopes.

Moving to the pros, Leaf's frankness follows. He found his first paid autograph session a little gross. Ask him about film watching, and he answers curtly: "I watch film as much as Peyton does, I just don't tell everyone about it." At the February Combine, a misunderstanding caused Leaf to miss a meeting with Colts head coach Jim Mora. When he was supposed to be talking with Mora, Leaf was getting an MRI. The incident was reported as Leaf blowing off the Colts. "I really felt put off by Coach Mora," says Leaf. "Instead of him talking to me, he leaked it to the media and made me look like an irresponsible brat."

The subject turns to Draft Day. With all the heat on him and Manning, Leaf relishes the difference between their backgrounds. "I come from Great Falls, Montana," he says with a smile. "My father isn't an NFL quarterback. He sells insurance. Why am I supposed to be able to do this thing?"

The following morning, at a windy Martin Stadium, Leaf throws a scripted 64 balls before a dozen drooling scouts. In shorts and T-shirt, gut discreetly hidden, Leaf drops in bombs at 55 yards with tender loving touch. Chargers quarterbacks coach June Jones smiles like a kid peeking at his Christmas gift. After the workout, a brave reporter asks about the Colts not being there. Leaf's answer is concise.

"Go, Chargers."

So what's Ryan's hope? Brett Favre or Billy Joe Hobert?

One curmudgeon offensive coordinator thinks Leaf is trouble. "His attitude is a problem," says our coach. "His teammates aren't going to put up with it. The press isn't going to put up with it. He can either develop into a Favre-type or fall on his face. No way I'm putting a franchise in his hands."

Steelers coordinator Ray Sherman sees unrefined greatness.

"Leaf has a great upside," Sherman says. "I'm impressed most by his composure in the pocket. Someone will hit him in the mouth and he still focuses downfield. You can't teach that."

One NFL scout dismisses concerns about Leaf's swaggering image. He does it succinctly. "You know what kind of quarterback wins the most games? The one with the biggest cojones. Leaf's got a giant pair. He'll do fine."

So, Ryan Leaf can throw the ball and he has balls. What more could you want?

***

It's March 29 at O'Charley's Restaurant near the University of Tennessee campus. Volunteer faithful swig Budweiser as their Lady Vols romp to a third-straight hoops championship. Afterward, a singer dedicates "No Woman, No Cry" to Louisiana Tech. Inevitably, "Rocky Top" is hollered. Life is sweet. Almost. A sloshed, orange-capped female student slurs: "This is cool, but they still screwed Peyton."

Down South, where men still dress up and try to win the Civil War, grudges die hard. However, Peyton Manning doesn't look back. "The track record of quarterbacks who have won the Heisman isn't so good anyway," Manning says with a freckly smile, his face tan from a week of golf in Vegas. Sitting in the film room of the Vols football complex, he looks trim. "It's all behind me now."

The polite answer. What else? At the age of 22, the possibility of Peyton Manning saying anything controversial is as remote as Al Gore saying anything funny. From perfect grammar to the perfect pass, Peyton Manning is Archie's boy. All the way down to the knock-kneed walk. There's no dodging it. Not that Peyton ever would. It's as if the two quarterbacks have merged into a Southern perpetuity, a gridiron version of the Kennedys. One has gone, but the son has picked up the ball, and he's throwing deep.

The story is familiar as "Dixie." Young Peytie watches Dad get beat senseless, but with honor, as a member of the Saints, Oilers and Vikings. Shucks, he even dons an Aints bag as a kid. All grown up, Peyton turns down Dad's alma mater, Ole Miss, and chooses Tennessee. Stardom follows. Three years later, Peyton turns down Bill Parcells for another year at UT. He's the great American hero, the symbol of all that is right and good. He loses the Heisman with ... honor.

Blah, blah, blah. The question is what, if anything, this gridiron legacy is going to do for him when Bruce Smith is jumping on his ###. The answer: plenty.

"Peyton has always been picking quarterbacks' brains," says Cooper Manning, his older brother. "Once, Dad went to one of those old quarterback challenges out in Hawaii when we were kids. Peyton met Len Dawson and just wouldn't let him escape. For two hours, he kept asking questions."

"Dad taught me you have to be a student of the game," Peyton says, gripping an NFL football. "I try to get one thing you can put in your mental notepad."

Manning has answered these questions a hundred times before. His automatic pilot responses pleasantly waft by like supermarket Muzak. Just like Leaf, he has been on the grin-and-greet circuit (Unlike Ryan, road workouts have kept him near his playing weight). It's not until the lights go off that he becomes animated. Always a film junkie -- Dad again -- Peyton has been screening NFL tapes, getting a head start. He watches like a detective reviewing the video of a bank holdup. Play. Rewind. Play. Rewind. Today's game: Cowboys-Panthers.

"Watch Aikman," he advises, pausing the tape. "Watch how he carries out the fake. He's not lazy. By doing something extra, if he holds one guy ... Look, see 57? He hesitates. One second, that fake was worth three to four yards."

Manning's practically out of his chair. "See the corner? Watch the safety behind him. See how he's cheating up here? It means he's covering for the corner who's blitzing. You figure out what one guy is doing by watching the other."

Manning runs the tape. His play-by-play voice speeds his N'awlins drawl from 33 to 45. "Okay. Here's a little blitz, everyone's coming, Troy's doing a good job picking it up, somebody's open." Sure enough. Aikman needles the ball to Michael Irvin. The All-Pro drops it.

"Damn."

Peyton Manning feels the pains of every quarterback.

"All that speed makes it feel like an NBA court compared to college," he says with wide-eyed wonder. It's that gee-golly image that has some scouts wondering if Peyton might just be too polite. Will he get in the face of a 33-year-old lineman who misses a block?

"Sure, I'll do that," he says, trying to look stern. "I just try to do it when the camera is not on me."

Pop has already quit his job as Saints radio commentator so he can follow Peyton around. According to Cooper, half-joking, Archie will have hotels and itineraries planned out a week after the draft. He's already prepared his son for the deluge of media and fans.

"Dad taught me it's part of the job," Peyton says, reaching into his pocket. "That's why you keep one of these with you at all times." He pulls out a black magic marker. He's ready to sign. "Dad says it's a part of the job, so you might as well smile and do it."

Isn't that sweet?

Perhaps because of his talent, perhaps because of his dad, few coaches will criticize Peyton. Back to our curmudgeon coordinator.

"You've got one guy groomed, almost bred to be a QB," he says. "The other is raw and immature. You got to take Manning. A lightbulb goes on when a quarterback finally grasps the offense. That lightbulb is going on a lot quicker for Peyton." The transition, as Archie found out, from college god to pro peon isn't always pleasant. But the son is ready for the hard times. "I'm going to have to work hard, study hard and try to earn a place. That's all I can do."

Cornier than a corn dog. Dad would be proud.

***

So, 10,000 miles later, it's time to make a choice. It's easy, right? Manning's better prepared, better mannered. Leaf can't even keep himself in shape. Exiled from his hometown. He runs off at the mouth. Not worth the $30 million risk. Right?

Sorry, Archie, I'm taking Ryan. Maybe it was watching Leaf against Arizona as he implored the coaching staff, "Call my number, I'm hot, I'm hot." Or Ryan running by Coach Price during his first Washington game after a completion into double coverage and chuckling, "Didn't think I'd get the ball in there." He possesses an "I don't give a crap" attitude that has proven essential to Super Bowl quarterbacks from Stabler to McMahon to Favre. Come 2018, Ryan Leaf, not Manning, will be strutting up to a podium in Canton.

Correct that. Bellying up.

This article appears in the April 20, 1998 issue of ESPN The Magazine.
So, 10,000 miles later, it's time to make a choice. It's easy, right? Manning's better prepared, better mannered. Leaf can't even keep himself in shape. Exiled from his hometown. He runs off at the mouth. Not worth the $30 million risk. Right?

Sorry, Archie, I'm taking Ryan. Maybe it was watching Leaf against Arizona as he implored the coaching staff, "Call my number, I'm hot, I'm hot." Or Ryan running by Coach Price during his first Washington game after a completion into double coverage and chuckling, "Didn't think I'd get the ball in there." He possesses an "I don't give a crap" attitude that has proven essential to Super Bowl quarterbacks from Stabler to McMahon to Favre. Come 2018, Ryan Leaf, not Manning, will be strutting up to a podium in Canton.
 
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Ryan Leaf/Peyton Manning pre-draft article:

Day & Night
By Stephen Rodrick
ESPN The Magazine
One is a little bit country. The other, a little bit rock 'n' roll. Peyton Manning loves crooning along with C&W star Kenny Chesney. You might find Ryan Leaf backstage at a Matchbox 20 concert begging for the mike. Manning studies for his masters. Ryan dropped out. Son of Archie, Peyton exudes football royalty. Down in the Big Easy, Manning the Younger is crown prince. Leaf? His dad sells insurance. To some in Montana, Ryan's the prince of darkness.

Heroes and villains. Black hats and white hats. Good and evil. That's the American way. Pick a side. This year's NFL Draft provides another tantalizing choice to divide us. You've got the No. 1 pick: Who's it going to be? Peyton Manning, everybody's All-American with perfect genes? Or Ryan Leaf, Favre-like gunslinger, bully enough to flick away 300-pound linemen?

To answer that question, I crisscrossed the nation. Pullman to Knoxville. Eleven bags of peanuts later, I've reached my conclusion. The envelope please ...

Nice try. Keep reading.

***

Ryan Leaf looks like Chuck Wepner. Or at least his stomach does.

Clad in black trunks, dripping white towel and a gold No. 16 medallion, Leaf strides into the Pullman, Wash., Holiday Inn Express lobby. A 6'5" sprinkler, he rains all over the carpet. No one minds. Here in Pullman, possibly the inspiration for the Neil Young album Everyone Knows This Is Nowhere, Leaf could wear Underoos into the lobby and everyone would fawn. Take a team to its first Rose Bowl in 66 years and that happens.

"Hey, man, mind if we do the interview in the Jacuzzi?"

Nope. Good way to size up the merchandise. As Leaf settles into the bubbles, his belly metamorphoses into a polka accordion. Like the Cascades, it has slopes and crevices. Maybe Ryan went to McDonald's and said Supersize me. "I didn't work out for January and February," he says, giving a caught-in-the-cookie-jar grin. "I was going around on the banquet circuit, up to two in the morning schmoozing, eating bad. Guys like me can put on 10-15 pounds in a week. I was 261, now I'm down to 242. Now I've got a trainer."

No, he's not John Goodman. But don't forget, Wepner and his jelly belly went 15 rounds with Ali. Besides, Leaf is a big, fat breath of fresh air in this era of hyper-protected jocks. He's just a good old boy meaning no harm.

As a kid in Great Falls, Montana, Leaf would don his Steelers jersey, set the microwave timer and lead his own two-minute drill. Mouthpiece included. The drive always ended in a touchdown. "I'd dive over the couch, wreck lamps," he remembers. "I thought I was Terry Bradshaw. I'd sure like to meet him some day." Reality wasn't quite as kind. At Charles M. Russell High, Leaf's cockiness caused problems, particularly on the basketball court. If he wasn't making 360-degree dunks -- he has a 35-inch vertical -- Leaf was thundering down the court imitating a 747 after a basket. Once he gave a crowd the finger.

On the football field, Leaf led Russell to a state championship his junior year. But no all-state, no retired jersey. Part of it involved following a Montana legend. Before Leaf, Dave Dickenson, an honor student, led the school to two state championships. Dickenson then piloted Montana to a 1995 1-AA title. Leaf was Johnny Depp replacing Michael Landon. Bad blood lingers. When the Great Falls Tribune did a Heisman poll last year, some citizens wrote in trashing Leaf's attitude.

"They retired my jersey here at Washington State about two weeks ago," Leaf says, turning the whirlpool jets on full blast. "It brought me to tears, something I hadn't done since seventh grade. Then I was back home at Christmastime, and now they want to retire my jersey. It's like, 'You're kidding me.' I never want my jersey hanging up there." Leaf no longer goes to Great Falls. Instead, he drives his beat-up Isuzu Rodeo to his grandparents' cabin 50 miles outside of town. "When people ask where I'm from, I tell them Washington, because that's where I feel the most comforted by the people," Leaf says. He breaks into a goofy grin. "I tell people I'm grounded and humble because I'm from the state of Montana, and they made me that way."

Ironically, Leaf's coach, Mike Price, says the same cockiness that turned off Great Falls made Leaf a "messiah" in Pullman. Price first saw Leaf's swagger when he quarterbacked the scout team in 1994, going nose-to-nose with the nation's No. 1 defense. The next year, the legend was born against archrival Washington in Seattle. "We send the quarterbacks out a little early so they don't get psyched out by the crowd," Price recalls. "All 75,000 start booing. Ryan, a freshman, marches out to the 50-yard line and starts waving his arms, 'C'mon, let's go, I'm here. Hey, Cougars, I'm leading you guys to the promised land. Screw you, guys. Boo me, I love it.' " Leaf lost the game, but threw for 291 yards.

He says his brashness is a media concoction. "I'm actually pretty reserved," Leaf argues, his waterlogged skin puckering. "I just like to have fun out there. I'm not the type of guy who goes to members of my team or the other team and says, 'Hey, I'm awesome,' because I can improve in so many ways."

Maybe. But he did yell, "Who's the only quarterback to beat USC?" after the Cougars won in the L.A. Coliseum for the first time in 40 years. He also whizzed a football, à la Albert Belle, within inches of a Spokane sportswriter's head after the journalist criticized a teammate. "I gave him a little buzz," says Leaf nonchalantly. "If I wanted to hit him, I would have hit him."

All these episodes were overlooked because Leaf backed up his braggadocio. Staying in Pullman last summer, Leaf worked on his long ball endlessly. Opposing coaches were amazed by the improvement. Suddenly, Leaf had the ability to float a ball downfield 60 yards with touch. Come January, the Cougars were 10-1 and one second away from possibly dousing Michigan's national title hopes.

Moving to the pros, Leaf's frankness follows. He found his first paid autograph session a little gross. Ask him about film watching, and he answers curtly: "I watch film as much as Peyton does, I just don't tell everyone about it." At the February Combine, a misunderstanding caused Leaf to miss a meeting with Colts head coach Jim Mora. When he was supposed to be talking with Mora, Leaf was getting an MRI. The incident was reported as Leaf blowing off the Colts. "I really felt put off by Coach Mora," says Leaf. "Instead of him talking to me, he leaked it to the media and made me look like an irresponsible brat."

The subject turns to Draft Day. With all the heat on him and Manning, Leaf relishes the difference between their backgrounds. "I come from Great Falls, Montana," he says with a smile. "My father isn't an NFL quarterback. He sells insurance. Why am I supposed to be able to do this thing?"

The following morning, at a windy Martin Stadium, Leaf throws a scripted 64 balls before a dozen drooling scouts. In shorts and T-shirt, gut discreetly hidden, Leaf drops in bombs at 55 yards with tender loving touch. Chargers quarterbacks coach June Jones smiles like a kid peeking at his Christmas gift. After the workout, a brave reporter asks about the Colts not being there. Leaf's answer is concise.

"Go, Chargers."

So what's Ryan's hope? Brett Favre or Billy Joe Hobert?

One curmudgeon offensive coordinator thinks Leaf is trouble. "His attitude is a problem," says our coach. "His teammates aren't going to put up with it. The press isn't going to put up with it. He can either develop into a Favre-type or fall on his face. No way I'm putting a franchise in his hands."

Steelers coordinator Ray Sherman sees unrefined greatness.

"Leaf has a great upside," Sherman says. "I'm impressed most by his composure in the pocket. Someone will hit him in the mouth and he still focuses downfield. You can't teach that."

One NFL scout dismisses concerns about Leaf's swaggering image. He does it succinctly. "You know what kind of quarterback wins the most games? The one with the biggest cojones. Leaf's got a giant pair. He'll do fine."

So, Ryan Leaf can throw the ball and he has balls. What more could you want?

***

It's March 29 at O'Charley's Restaurant near the University of Tennessee campus. Volunteer faithful swig Budweiser as their Lady Vols romp to a third-straight hoops championship. Afterward, a singer dedicates "No Woman, No Cry" to Louisiana Tech. Inevitably, "Rocky Top" is hollered. Life is sweet. Almost. A sloshed, orange-capped female student slurs: "This is cool, but they still screwed Peyton."

Down South, where men still dress up and try to win the Civil War, grudges die hard. However, Peyton Manning doesn't look back. "The track record of quarterbacks who have won the Heisman isn't so good anyway," Manning says with a freckly smile, his face tan from a week of golf in Vegas. Sitting in the film room of the Vols football complex, he looks trim. "It's all behind me now."

The polite answer. What else? At the age of 22, the possibility of Peyton Manning saying anything controversial is as remote as Al Gore saying anything funny. From perfect grammar to the perfect pass, Peyton Manning is Archie's boy. All the way down to the knock-kneed walk. There's no dodging it. Not that Peyton ever would. It's as if the two quarterbacks have merged into a Southern perpetuity, a gridiron version of the Kennedys. One has gone, but the son has picked up the ball, and he's throwing deep.

The story is familiar as "Dixie." Young Peytie watches Dad get beat senseless, but with honor, as a member of the Saints, Oilers and Vikings. Shucks, he even dons an Aints bag as a kid. All grown up, Peyton turns down Dad's alma mater, Ole Miss, and chooses Tennessee. Stardom follows. Three years later, Peyton turns down Bill Parcells for another year at UT. He's the great American hero, the symbol of all that is right and good. He loses the Heisman with ... honor.

Blah, blah, blah. The question is what, if anything, this gridiron legacy is going to do for him when Bruce Smith is jumping on his ###. The answer: plenty.

"Peyton has always been picking quarterbacks' brains," says Cooper Manning, his older brother. "Once, Dad went to one of those old quarterback challenges out in Hawaii when we were kids. Peyton met Len Dawson and just wouldn't let him escape. For two hours, he kept asking questions."

"Dad taught me you have to be a student of the game," Peyton says, gripping an NFL football. "I try to get one thing you can put in your mental notepad."

Manning has answered these questions a hundred times before. His automatic pilot responses pleasantly waft by like supermarket Muzak. Just like Leaf, he has been on the grin-and-greet circuit (Unlike Ryan, road workouts have kept him near his playing weight). It's not until the lights go off that he becomes animated. Always a film junkie -- Dad again -- Peyton has been screening NFL tapes, getting a head start. He watches like a detective reviewing the video of a bank holdup. Play. Rewind. Play. Rewind. Today's game: Cowboys-Panthers.

"Watch Aikman," he advises, pausing the tape. "Watch how he carries out the fake. He's not lazy. By doing something extra, if he holds one guy ... Look, see 57? He hesitates. One second, that fake was worth three to four yards."

Manning's practically out of his chair. "See the corner? Watch the safety behind him. See how he's cheating up here? It means he's covering for the corner who's blitzing. You figure out what one guy is doing by watching the other."

Manning runs the tape. His play-by-play voice speeds his N'awlins drawl from 33 to 45. "Okay. Here's a little blitz, everyone's coming, Troy's doing a good job picking it up, somebody's open." Sure enough. Aikman needles the ball to Michael Irvin. The All-Pro drops it.

"Damn."

Peyton Manning feels the pains of every quarterback.

"All that speed makes it feel like an NBA court compared to college," he says with wide-eyed wonder. It's that gee-golly image that has some scouts wondering if Peyton might just be too polite. Will he get in the face of a 33-year-old lineman who misses a block?

"Sure, I'll do that," he says, trying to look stern. "I just try to do it when the camera is not on me."

Pop has already quit his job as Saints radio commentator so he can follow Peyton around. According to Cooper, half-joking, Archie will have hotels and itineraries planned out a week after the draft. He's already prepared his son for the deluge of media and fans.

"Dad taught me it's part of the job," Peyton says, reaching into his pocket. "That's why you keep one of these with you at all times." He pulls out a black magic marker. He's ready to sign. "Dad says it's a part of the job, so you might as well smile and do it."

Isn't that sweet?

Perhaps because of his talent, perhaps because of his dad, few coaches will criticize Peyton. Back to our curmudgeon coordinator.

"You've got one guy groomed, almost bred to be a QB," he says. "The other is raw and immature. You got to take Manning. A lightbulb goes on when a quarterback finally grasps the offense. That lightbulb is going on a lot quicker for Peyton." The transition, as Archie found out, from college god to pro peon isn't always pleasant. But the son is ready for the hard times. "I'm going to have to work hard, study hard and try to earn a place. That's all I can do."

Cornier than a corn dog. Dad would be proud.

***

So, 10,000 miles later, it's time to make a choice. It's easy, right? Manning's better prepared, better mannered. Leaf can't even keep himself in shape. Exiled from his hometown. He runs off at the mouth. Not worth the $30 million risk. Right?

Sorry, Archie, I'm taking Ryan. Maybe it was watching Leaf against Arizona as he implored the coaching staff, "Call my number, I'm hot, I'm hot." Or Ryan running by Coach Price during his first Washington game after a completion into double coverage and chuckling, "Didn't think I'd get the ball in there." He possesses an "I don't give a crap" attitude that has proven essential to Super Bowl quarterbacks from Stabler to McMahon to Favre. Come 2018, Ryan Leaf, not Manning, will be strutting up to a podium in Canton.

Correct that. Bellying up.

This article appears in the April 20, 1998 issue of ESPN The Magazine.
So, 10,000 miles later, it's time to make a choice. It's easy, right? Manning's better prepared, better mannered. Leaf can't even keep himself in shape. Exiled from his hometown. He runs off at the mouth. Not worth the $30 million risk. Right?

Sorry, Archie, I'm taking Ryan. Maybe it was watching Leaf against Arizona as he implored the coaching staff, "Call my number, I'm hot, I'm hot." Or Ryan running by Coach Price during his first Washington game after a completion into double coverage and chuckling, "Didn't think I'd get the ball in there." He possesses an "I don't give a crap" attitude that has proven essential to Super Bowl quarterbacks from Stabler to McMahon to Favre. Come 2018, Ryan Leaf, not Manning, will be strutting up to a podium in Canton.
Do you need straws? You seem to be grasping for some...

 
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HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."

 
HOGE: WINSTON TOO SLOW TO GO NO. 1

Merril Hoge, comparing Jameis Winston to Byron Leftwich: "He is a slow, lumbering athlete. That slow-twitch, slow-footed lumbering skill will never be changed. You’re not going to coach him out of it. He’s not going to be a quick-twitch guy one day. That means teams will attack that."
Is Big Ben considered "quick twitch"?

 

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