Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
mine tooneed2know said:
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QB Jameis Winston, NYG (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter massraider
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WheelsUp
Footballguy
They were getting destroyed, he should have not went out there that drive.
Evans is the one to worry more about. Winston has 10 days to get better, if anything he has what Big Ben has and will mis a game or two since I'm using his words.
This guy should be a stud for years to come when they get a decent #2 WR and a better OLine. Martin needs to stay healthy to help his growth, but they need to make a high draft pick at RB next year if they find one that is worth it.
Evans is the one to worry more about. Winston has 10 days to get better, if anything he has what Big Ben has and will mis a game or two since I'm using his words.
This guy should be a stud for years to come when they get a decent #2 WR and a better OLine. Martin needs to stay healthy to help his growth, but they need to make a high draft pick at RB next year if they find one that is worth it.
buck naked
Footballguy
This is partly true. He doesn't blow, but his passes do sail. But more importantly, WHO CARES AS LONG AS HE IS SCORING FOR FANTASY PURPOSES.jabarony said:
buck naked
Footballguy
For fantasy purposes, I could not care less. So he isn't the greatest NFL QB yet - just put up the fantasy numbers for a 10+ round pick and he suits my purposes EXACTLY.lod001 said:You are reeling just like your boy. He's a loser. Loses to any team with a willing record. Beats other scrubs.
You forgot to mention ANOTHER turnover. He bumbled then fumbled in his giant clown shoes.
Did you see him get jacked the #### up??? That was awesome.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Capella said:
You keep feeding the troll and then wonder why he keeps coming back. Show some self restraint, or if you can't manage that put the troll on ignore. You won't miss anything worth reading here or elsewhere.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
You can hate Winston as a person. We all read about those rape allegations and how the police department covered it up.
As far as being a player. He has the arm, the build and has showed promise at times. His passes were sailing last night but doesn't necessarily mean that they always will. When he plants and drives to throw a strike, his delivery is a bit awkward. I haven't put my thumb on it, but every time I see it I think to myself that something is off.
People seem to be forgetting that Jameis is on a bad team. They had the #1 overall pick for a reason. It's not as if they underperformed the year he was drafted. This isn't a case like the Colts, where they were a winning team with Peyton and when Peyton was injured they lost and drafted Luck. This is a bad team. Their OL was getting consistently beat by the Falcons pass rush, which isn't known around the NFL as being a good unit. Several times throughout the game plays were called back because of holding penalties. They couldn't block and had to hold on nearly every play to keep Winston alive.
Aside from Mike Evans, which Winston has to target often, who else is a real threat on this team? Brate? Adam Humphries? Russell Shepard? He's not 1 weapon to his disposal at this point. From a fantasy perspective we don't want his defense to be good as we like him to be chasing points on the scoreboard. But his defense is terrible as well. If you're going to judge a 22-year-old kid because of his record, you need to look a little deeper to see where the real problem lies.
As far as being a player. He has the arm, the build and has showed promise at times. His passes were sailing last night but doesn't necessarily mean that they always will. When he plants and drives to throw a strike, his delivery is a bit awkward. I haven't put my thumb on it, but every time I see it I think to myself that something is off.
People seem to be forgetting that Jameis is on a bad team. They had the #1 overall pick for a reason. It's not as if they underperformed the year he was drafted. This isn't a case like the Colts, where they were a winning team with Peyton and when Peyton was injured they lost and drafted Luck. This is a bad team. Their OL was getting consistently beat by the Falcons pass rush, which isn't known around the NFL as being a good unit. Several times throughout the game plays were called back because of holding penalties. They couldn't block and had to hold on nearly every play to keep Winston alive.
Aside from Mike Evans, which Winston has to target often, who else is a real threat on this team? Brate? Adam Humphries? Russell Shepard? He's not 1 weapon to his disposal at this point. From a fantasy perspective we don't want his defense to be good as we like him to be chasing points on the scoreboard. But his defense is terrible as well. If you're going to judge a 22-year-old kid because of his record, you need to look a little deeper to see where the real problem lies.
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Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Not sure what's not to like as a TB fan. He's only got 1 1/2 yrs NFL experience and he's on pace to throw for over 4000 yds and 34 TDs. He's still going through growing pains, but considering where the rest of this team is - they are currently starting RBs that many teams wouldn't even roster, their O-line is mediocre on a good day, their WR2 and WR3 would be depth/ST players on most other teams, and they have a bottom 5 D.
The guys has shown football intillegence, athletic capability, maturity, leadership, work ethic, and a strong desire to improve
If I'm a TB fan, QB would be one of the last places on the team that I'd be concerned about.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Well I was giving him the benefit of the doubt before I ignored him. After making up BS explanations in the LeSean McCoy thread (he's got no injury, he's faking it, he's mad at Buffalo, he has Herpes) all within a short period of time, I was ready to ignore him anyhow. Now he's associating Winston with needing a Meniscus repair. @WheelsUp just can't shut his mouth.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
and the rest of the picks at WR/TE until they get someone worth a #### to compliment Evans. I'd love to see them sign Garcon in the offseason, could be a Boldin 2.0 to help move chains and keep the ball in TB hands.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
They really need to fix that OL before they do anything else, IMO. If not, they're going to be going through the same thing Indy did in having a franchise QB that gets his ### handed to him every play and risk injury. Look at what Dallas has done with an excellent OL. Without Romo and Dez and they have done great. Their WR options aren't the best and while Elliott has been great, McFadden was very good behind that OL last year.
WheelsUp
Footballguy
Tommy are you coming at me telling me to shut my mouth on my opinion? When I look at quality of poster, I would like to again thank FBG for this feature best thing ever. Lets me know quality of poster. Tommy, why is your like ratio so terrible? 1463 posts and 77 likes? You talk about my posts which I have made 589 and have 249 likes. So if you are going to attack me and my posts, please have better credentials yourself.
Capella
Footballguy
It's really just the LT, Smith. He allowed 8 (EIGHT) QB hurries last night and also 8 on Sunday. The RG is really good and theLG/RT is fine.
Not that it matters for Jameis as much, but they also need 3 new guys in the secondary.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Their RT didn't do a great job either. I don't know what the stats are, but by watching it, Jameis had to move up in the pocket several times because the DE was getting around the edge.
8 hurries in a single game... incredible.
Capella
Footballguy
Not that they are the end-all, but PFF gave the RT a good grade. I was at the game so I couldn't watch as much, but I saw smith get beat like a drum multiple times.
packer_junkie
Footballguy
Better to get a bunch of 6'5 WRS like Carolina so Jameis can just throw it up....
MIke Williams from Clemson... come on down!!
MIke Williams from Clemson... come on down!!
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Excellent post, I was going say something exactly like this but you really covered everything. The only thing I would add is that I'm sure the supporting cast will be improved for next year.
Anyways, I'm sure most reasonable people understand and agree with your point of view. However, there will be some trolls/haters who will continue to blame everything on Jameis, and we can obviously see who those people are in this thread.
need2know
Footballguy
Yeah, that's a neutral match-up. But Weeks 11-12 are bad, and he has yet to show he can do much against a solid D. The most important thing to me is that he's healthy for the home stretch.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Couple take-aways from last night:
Winston has room for growth. Young QB, and inexperienced - but he can't put the ball on the ground as much. His pocket awareness was, at times, nonexistent.
I realize the OL wasn't doing him a lot of favors, but sometimes you've gotta tuck it away and prepare for the hit.
Accuracy is not his forte. On middle-deep targets straight ahead he's solid, but in touch passes he not only floats balls, but throws them behind the WRs. Mike Evans has "I am Batman" symptoms because that ball was both high and behind him. Might as well have painted a bullseye on his chest too. Of the negatives I saw, this might be the most difficult to address. He's not as bad as Kaepernick, but he's got a lot of room for improvement here.
And on the play that got him hurt I cannot imagine what the hell he was thinking. It's a 2 point conversion in a game you're down by 20+ in the middle of the 4th quarter. Live to fight another day. That run had disaster written all over it. The play was for a pass and it was well covered. Throw it away and keep yourself on the field. From the sound of it he's likely going to be ok, but that could have been career suicide for little return.
From a fantasy perspective his owners love him. Cheap late round pick, lots of production.
Winston has room for growth. Young QB, and inexperienced - but he can't put the ball on the ground as much. His pocket awareness was, at times, nonexistent.
I realize the OL wasn't doing him a lot of favors, but sometimes you've gotta tuck it away and prepare for the hit.
Accuracy is not his forte. On middle-deep targets straight ahead he's solid, but in touch passes he not only floats balls, but throws them behind the WRs. Mike Evans has "I am Batman" symptoms because that ball was both high and behind him. Might as well have painted a bullseye on his chest too. Of the negatives I saw, this might be the most difficult to address. He's not as bad as Kaepernick, but he's got a lot of room for improvement here.
And on the play that got him hurt I cannot imagine what the hell he was thinking. It's a 2 point conversion in a game you're down by 20+ in the middle of the 4th quarter. Live to fight another day. That run had disaster written all over it. The play was for a pass and it was well covered. Throw it away and keep yourself on the field. From the sound of it he's likely going to be ok, but that could have been career suicide for little return.
From a fantasy perspective his owners love him. Cheap late round pick, lots of production.
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Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
I'm hoping he plays next week because I have Tyrod as my other QB who is on a bye. Was planning to play him Week 11 and 12 with Winston getting KC/SEA
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The fact that he pretty much survived that hit shows he has toughness if not smarts. Evans bails him out a lot when the OL crumbles.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
That could have been bad. I immediately thought concussion, but ended up with a knee injury. Regardless, it was a foolish play but I can't fault a player for giving 100% on every play, even if they were going to lose. The better question about this play was why the hell Koetter was going for 2 down by 20? They weren't going to catch the Falcons. Even if the Bucs offense managed to put up points, the Falcons offense went through the Bucs D like a hot knife through butter.
jabarony
Footballguy
There are a number of QBs who don't even have a Mike Evans. The weapons argument is weak. The OL argument has much more validity.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I think he was talking about Evans surviving the hit on the Winston pass that was high and behind him and got him laid out with a concussion.
The Winston hit showed Winston's toughness, and unfortunately total lack of situational awareness.
Down 2, trying to tie the game? You risk life and limb because it matters. That situation? Throw the ball away and save your body.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Agreed.
And yeah - that OL is horrific. Losing the center didn't help it get better either.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
I'm not sure where you're going with this. Are you saying there are QBs who have done more with less? Because someone like Rivers comes to mind as he obviously doesn't have anybody great. He has the ability to elevate the play around him. Winston is still young and only in his 2nd year. The team as a whole is pretty bad. I'm not sure how this is a weak argument.
Not sure that's the mentality you want your franchise quarterback projecting to the rest of the team/organization. Laying down your sword may be defensible as a pragmatist, but it might not be the best idea in the grand scheme.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Fundamentally I agree - I didn't suggest he wave the white flag and take a knee (though it would have been smarter than what he did).
But I seriously doubt that any coach on the TB sideline was happy with the way he handled the end of that play.
he's gotta be smarter than that - he had none chance at crossing the GL - throw it away. They had none chance to win the game. Throw it away.
He's their franchise QB - his health will determine whether or not next season is a lost year too. He's got to be smart enough to read the room.
And if he'd thrown the ball away, he doesn't risk serious injury in a meaningless situation.
I would expect that the TB coaches want to see 100% effort out of all 11 players they've put on the field for any given play.
If they thought there was no chance to win the game, then their personnel should have reflected that. Heck just kick the PAT if you're giving up. Going for 2 indicates that they didn't think the game was lost, and they thought those 2 points were worth going after. In that event, their QB should feel the same way.
If they thought there was no chance to win the game, then their personnel should have reflected that. Heck just kick the PAT if you're giving up. Going for 2 indicates that they didn't think the game was lost, and they thought those 2 points were worth going after. In that event, their QB should feel the same way.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I disagree - he's a 2nd year QB and they get him the reps because in a winnable game that experience should pay off. Benching him because they're getting blown out doesn't help him improve as a player.
If this were Peyton Manning, the backup is in. But since it's a young QB they play him because it helps him develop.
When there was none chance to cross the line, giving up the body isn't "100% effort", it's 100% reckless. Not one coach for TB wanted to see that "effort". They'd want to see him make the right decision, which 1000 times out of 1000 is to throw it away. There were 3 Falcons (at least) waiting at the GL, and one chasing him down. Throw the ball away.
Instead he very narrowly missed a season or career ending injury. That risk in that situation is extremely foolish.
Futz
Footballguy
New Winston owner due to Ben's injury. My .02 on what I've seen in 3 weeks. He's talented, no question, but the game instincts aren't there yet.
He's kinda of the opposite of the skittish young QB who bails on the pocket too soon. I feel he's holding the ball too long and isn't picking up yards on the ground or dumping off when they present themselves. He'd rather throw a low percentage ball into the feet of a covered receiver and repeatedly puts them into third and longs.
He's also entirely too locked in on Evans. It's hurting the offense. It makes Evans owners estatic but he or they (OC) need to diversify big time. I know injuries are playing a big part in that but it's just painful to watch at times. There just seems to be a lack of trust and defenses can ultimately defend you if you are one dimensional in the passing game.
Even with Ben returning, I'll be holding because that playoff schedule is a gold mine and it may not matter how good Ben is playing then.
He's kinda of the opposite of the skittish young QB who bails on the pocket too soon. I feel he's holding the ball too long and isn't picking up yards on the ground or dumping off when they present themselves. He'd rather throw a low percentage ball into the feet of a covered receiver and repeatedly puts them into third and longs.
He's also entirely too locked in on Evans. It's hurting the offense. It makes Evans owners estatic but he or they (OC) need to diversify big time. I know injuries are playing a big part in that but it's just painful to watch at times. There just seems to be a lack of trust and defenses can ultimately defend you if you are one dimensional in the passing game.
Even with Ben returning, I'll be holding because that playoff schedule is a gold mine and it may not matter how good Ben is playing then.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Go watch the play… There was no way he was crossing the goal line - and It was predictable from 5 yards out.
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Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
If Tyrod Taylor is still out there (56% owned in ESPN), he is a nice pair with Winston.
In weeks 11-13 when Jameis has some tricky matchups (mainly week 12 with SEA), Tyrod has Cincy, Jax and Oak, all in the bottom 3rd in QB PA.
He also has Cleveland in week 15, if you are skittish about Dallas (depending on what Winston looks like at the time).
In weeks 11-13 when Jameis has some tricky matchups (mainly week 12 with SEA), Tyrod has Cincy, Jax and Oak, all in the bottom 3rd in QB PA.
He also has Cleveland in week 15, if you are skittish about Dallas (depending on what Winston looks like at the time).
Grahamburn
Footballguy
He definitely had a hot hand. Torching the Bears with Freddie Martino, Cecil Shorts, and Cameron Brate.
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