Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That actually would have been much smarter, I agree.Come out and commit to Caleb and come out and tell the world "Fields is a great young QB and is available. He will continue to be a Bear until he isn't."
That actually would have been much smarter, I agree.Come out and commit to Caleb and come out and tell the world "Fields is a great young QB and is available. He will continue to be a Bear until he isn't."
I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
you could respond to our points about his elite elusiveness being a bigger impact to the data signal in that graph than the "high quality" blocking. but it's ok you can repeat that he had the most time like we didn't already understand that point the first time.I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
There you go. Please look at it objectively. He had MORE time than anyone. I don’t know what else to say.
and then you follow that up with "we're onto Cincinnati, next question..."That actually would have been much smarter, I agree.Come out and commit to Caleb and come out and tell the world "Fields is a great young QB and is available. He will continue to be a Bear until he isn't."
Fair enough. I’m responding with data and analytics instead of subjective opinion. Yes, elusive QBs will generally have more time to throw.you could respond to our points about his elite elusiveness being a bigger impact to the data signal in that graph than the "high quality" blocking. but it's ok you can repeat that he had the most time like we didn't already understand that point the first time.I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
There you go. Please look at it objectively. He had MORE time than anyone. I don’t know what else to say.
that is fair, and I posted some data as well....Fair enough. I’m responding with data and analytics instead of subjective opinion. Yes, elusive QBs will generally have more time to throw.you could respond to our points about his elite elusiveness being a bigger impact to the data signal in that graph than the "high quality" blocking. but it's ok you can repeat that he had the most time like we didn't already understand that point the first time.I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
There you go. Please look at it objectively. He had MORE time than anyone. I don’t know what else to say.
Here’s a data set from Fantasy Pros showing Fields also had the most pocket time in the NFL as well.
2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats | NFL Metrics | FantasyPros
View 2023 Advanced Quarterback Stats including Air Yards, Deep Ball Passing, Pocket Time, and more. See how QBs perform across the NFL's key metrics.www.fantasypros.com
You say his line was bad. I say he held the damn ball too long.
That’s a graph from 2022. Notice the team/QB waaaay to the left. That’s what a good QB does when they actually don’t have time to throw.
It's both you see? and his elusiveness. they all matter.you could respond to our points about his elite elusiveness being a bigger impact to the data signal in that graph than the "high quality" blocking. but it's ok you can repeat that he had the most time like we didn't already understand that point the first time.I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
There you go. Please look at it objectively. He had MORE time than anyone. I don’t know what else to say.
You say his line was bad. I say he held the damn ball too long.
indeed. and I was really really impressed with how much better I thought he looked last year from year 2 to 3. believe me I see all those weaknesses too. I still operate under the assumption that QBs are hitting their prime around 30 or that they are quite capable of it. If they can hang around that long. but I thought he made leaps year 1 to 2 as well, so just seemed like a painful let-down for me to let him go that easily. The story I heard was they did it for *him* because they know he can compete now etc.What matters is can he get better at that aspect of his game? Will he even get another opportunity to do so?
Only because he scrambled and bought himself time.I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
There you go. Please look at it objectively. He had MORE time than anyone. I don’t know what else to say.
The pocket time number says differently, but I get it. I used to feel this way about Jameis Winston. He just needs more time…Doesn't have to be one thing or another or else. The blocking sucked AND he is elusive AND he holds the ball too long AND he made steps in all these regards but ultimately he is a running QB that is GOING to skew the data.
Their O line played like ****ing garbage man. They just did.
Posted the pocket numbers too, man. 2.8. Highest in the league. From snap to pressure in the pocket.Only because he scrambled and bought himself time.I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
There you go. Please look at it objectively. He had MORE time than anyone. I don’t know what else to say.
This isn’t objectively. It’s ignoring context entirely.
Never is a long time.Is there a graph that measures his super slow processing speed? Because that’s why he’ll never be a franchise, build-your-team-around-him quarterback again.
Yeah. Pretty much all the ones I’ve been posting.Is there a graph that measures his super slow processing speed? Because that’s why he’ll never be a franchise, build-your-team-around-him quarterback again.
Never is a long time.Is there a graph that measures his super slow processing speed? Because that’s why he’ll never be a franchise, build-your-team-around-him quarterback again.
He’s 25 and processed at a high level in college.
Do you think he just forgot how to play football between college & the pros, or could this have been a coaching issue?
Yeah. Pretty much all the ones I’ve been posting.Is there a graph that measures his super slow processing speed? Because that’s why he’ll never be a franchise, build-your-team-around-him quarterback again.
Don’t have that one, but putting him out there with every other starter you quickly see how much of an outlier he is and the excuse argument that it’s all on the Bears not supporting him falls apart.Yeah. Pretty much all the ones I’ve been posting.Is there a graph that measures his super slow processing speed? Because that’s why he’ll never be a franchise, build-your-team-around-him quarterback again.
I know lol, was just trying to distill it down to a fine point. Show me a graph measuring his brainwaves or something to really bring it home.
Agree to disagree. We’ll see how he looks with some good coaching in a good organization.Never is a long time.Is there a graph that measures his super slow processing speed? Because that’s why he’ll never be a franchise, build-your-team-around-him quarterback again.
He’s 25 and processed at a high level in college.
Do you think he just forgot how to play football between college & the pros, or could this have been a coaching issue?
There’s better pro Fields arguments to make than the college to pros thing. For starters, Haskins looked pretty good in that uniform too but was a terrible pro QB.
I’d say Fields had the same problems in college that he does in the pros. With much wider windows and less complex defenses, it’s a lot easier to overcome them.
Here are the weaknesses in his draft profile…sounds a lot like the issues he’s had in the pros. I’ll stand on “never”. He can be a guy for a stretch, maybe a season or bridge QB type, but I’ll stick with no team ever views him as the guy to build around again.
Weaknesses
- Needs to improve pocket mobility for clean launch points.
- Below-average feel for edge pressure, running himself into pressure points.
- Field vision is average in face of the blitz.
- Missed open blitz beaters in the middle of the field against Indiana.
- Gradual operation time prevents expedited release.
- Needs to release ball earlier on anticipatory throws.
- Needs to improve eye manipulation as a pro.
- Stagnant eyes invite coverage to the passing party.
- Forces receivers to slow for deep throws.
- Pet spin move as runner got him clocked against Clemson.
I'm not really disagreeing that that is a very real possibility but I just had the thought that if this report comes out earlier it tanks any potential trade value do to me thats a possible reason this didn't "leak" earlier.This leaked “story” comes off to me as bears front office trying to save face by insulting Fields’ character.
Except my contention isn’t that the Bears would have leaked it.I'm not really disagreeing that that is a very real possibility but I just had the thought that if this report comes out earlier it tanks any potential trade value do to me thats a possible reason this didn't "leak" earlier.This leaked “story” comes off to me as bears front office trying to save face by insulting Fields’ character.
Agree to disagree. We’ll see how he looks with some good coaching in a good organization.Never is a long time.Is there a graph that measures his super slow processing speed? Because that’s why he’ll never be a franchise, build-your-team-around-him quarterback again.
He’s 25 and processed at a high level in college.
Do you think he just forgot how to play football between college & the pros, or could this have been a coaching issue?
There’s better pro Fields arguments to make than the college to pros thing. For starters, Haskins looked pretty good in that uniform too but was a terrible pro QB.
I’d say Fields had the same problems in college that he does in the pros. With much wider windows and less complex defenses, it’s a lot easier to overcome them.
Here are the weaknesses in his draft profile…sounds a lot like the issues he’s had in the pros. I’ll stand on “never”. He can be a guy for a stretch, maybe a season or bridge QB type, but I’ll stick with no team ever views him as the guy to build around again.
Weaknesses
- Needs to improve pocket mobility for clean launch points.
- Below-average feel for edge pressure, running himself into pressure points.
- Field vision is average in face of the blitz.
- Missed open blitz beaters in the middle of the field against Indiana.
- Gradual operation time prevents expedited release.
- Needs to release ball earlier on anticipatory throws.
- Needs to improve eye manipulation as a pro.
- Stagnant eyes invite coverage to the passing party.
- Forces receivers to slow for deep throws.
- Pet spin move as runner got him clocked against Clemson.
CHI is and has been a dumpster fire of an org.
Then were actually in agreementAnd if anyone can get the most out of Fields, Tomlin is the guy
And we’re back to being mortal enemies.Basically I don’t ever see him earning a starter money contract.
I'd still love to see the splits before/after 2023. He has gotten better at these things.
While not shifting all the blame for that off of Fields, I do think it’s fair to suggest that some of their play-calling might also shoulder some of the responsibility.Also I'm not blaming the surrounding cast I'm praising him for his growth despite all that. And he has quite clearly held it too long at times - that's what I've been saying. It isn't possible for that to be on anyone but himself. And I also would agree that if he doesn't take *additional* steps then that processing issue will be his undoing.
But he isn't there yet and his trajectory is still game changing electric first rounder that has actually shown immense growth and whose arc is still quite positive.
And to be clear if the Bears (or the Steelers moving forward) OL were a HOF caliber OL it still wouldn't mean **** if he can't process fast enough.
Oh don't get me started on Jones and being in a dumpster fire of a situation. He didn't even have an O-coord one year. Gross.Mac Jones looks like the guy with a complaint.
yeah well as much as I've ragged on my Bears playcalling, and as much as I completely agree, Arthur Smith makes me want to puke.While not shifting all the blame for that off of Fields, I do think it’s fair to suggest that some of their play-calling might also shoulder some of the responsibility.Also I'm not blaming the surrounding cast I'm praising him for his growth despite all that. And he has quite clearly held it too long at times - that's what I've been saying. It isn't possible for that to be on anyone but himself. And I also would agree that if he doesn't take *additional* steps then that processing issue will be his undoing.
But he isn't there yet and his trajectory is still game changing electric first rounder that has actually shown immense growth and whose arc is still quite positive.
And to be clear if the Bears (or the Steelers moving forward) OL were a HOF caliber OL it still wouldn't mean **** if he can't process fast enough.
Yes, at some point he needs to throw it away. And there were those times. But at other times, he didn’t have time to throw it away. And many times he was facing 2nd & 12, 3rd & 14 because of false starts, or the OC calling he same ineffective screen twice in a row (I’m pretty sure I saw this happen last year to predictable results).
So there’s also the element of Fields probably feeling the need to make something happen. To stand tall in the pocket despite the pass rush.
The results are avoidable sacks, which make him look bad. But one could also admire the tenacity he showed.
And IIRC, this was an area of improvement, even if incremental.
I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
There you go. Please look at it objectively. He had MORE time than anyone. I don’t know what else to say.
Yes, but why is he extending plays? Is it because he can't find anyone open or he just isn't decisive with the ball? I also posted his pocket rates several times in here. 2.8 seconds. Highest in the NFL from snap to pressure in the pocket. That rate pares out the elusiveness. People blame his line, but he's the one making the line look bad by holding the ball. And then when he did extend the play and throw it he was one of the most inaccurate passers in the game. The truth was he held the ball more than any other QB in the NFL. If he wants to get better he'll need to get better at that aspect of the game.I’m not blaming it all on drops nor making them the excuse.The Bears had 19 drops on the season. Tied for the third fewest in the NFL! Drops are not an excuse for Fields!
You know who had the most? The Chiefs with 44…
But fields had zero time to work. None. I watched way too many of those games and that was the worst OL I’ve seen in some time.
Plus for a while they tried to shackle him and make him a pocket passer which is just abjectly dumb.
The drops were irrritsting from a FF perspective. The OL was a real life disaster.
there’s a non-zero chance that the bears ruin Caleb, too.
There you go. Please look at it objectively. He had MORE time than anyone. I don’t know what else to say.
This chart doesn't really tell anyone much. It doesn't tell you how the QBs mobility affects the time to throw. If you can extend plays with your legs you get more time to throw but throwing on the run is a much tougher throw to do accurately. It also doesn't tell you the type of throw the QB is making. So if Fields was just throwing a bunch of screens and short passes, his accuracy numbers would rise but his time to throw would drop. For example, Jared Goff had the highest accuracy on this chart, but his intended air yards per pass attempt was only 6.7 where Fields was at 8.0.
From what I saw, it was a bit of both.Yes, but why is he extending plays? Is it because he can't find anyone open or he just isn't decisive with the ball?
Good coaching & a good OL will do that.I also posted his pocket rates several times in here. 2.8 seconds. Highest in the NFL from snap to pressure in the pocket. That rate pares out the elusiveness. People blame his line, but he's the one making the line look bad by holding the ball. And then when he did extend the play and throw it he was one of the most inaccurate passers in the game. The truth was he held the ball more than any other QB in the NFL. If he wants to get better he'll need to get better at that aspect of the game.
Anyone who actually watched the Bears play this season, particularly early in the year, would know that the OL was terrible. Part of that had to do with lack of talent, part was due to injury and personal issues, and some of it was just downright lack of preparedness. The IOL, in particular was comical. In fairness, the line got better as the season progressed and they had time to gel together. Even so, they were a below average unit. I think the unit itself will be in the 12-17 range this year, marginally better and hopefully more prepared going into the season than the product that Getsy put on the field.From what I saw, it was a bit of both.Yes, but why is he extending plays? Is it because he can't find anyone open or he just isn't decisive with the ball?
Reminder that DJM had a phenomenal FF season. Fields was able to sustain his production. Kmet was up & down, but had some very big games.
The Bears lacked a quality WR2-3. That’s just a fact. Mooney is a below average NFL WR. He has bad hands, lapses in concentration on wide open deep balls, and doesn’t often win contested catches, from what I’ve seen.
Maybe if you look at the stats from 2023 I’m off-base there, but I watched quite a number of Bears games & that is what my eye-test told me.
Regarding decisiveness, that OL allowed so much pressure that I would think it difficult to be decisive when he was scrambling around running for his life or looking out of his earhole.
From what I watched (granted, I did not watch every single game) the extra time Fields had, he either generated himself, or was because the defense wasn’t rushing anyone and instead dropped everyone into coverage - in the past this is where Fields would excel and take off running the ball.
But he was being coached to not do that as much. Which seems silly, considering he’s such a weapon on the ground with the ball in his hands.
Good coaching & a good OL will do that.I also posted his pocket rates several times in here. 2.8 seconds. Highest in the NFL from snap to pressure in the pocket. That rate pares out the elusiveness. People blame his line, but he's the one making the line look bad by holding the ball. And then when he did extend the play and throw it he was one of the most inaccurate passers in the game. The truth was he held the ball more than any other QB in the NFL. If he wants to get better he'll need to get better at that aspect of the game.
You can point to stat sheets all day & maybe show some number that makes the OL look better as you’re doing here - I know what I saw and that OL was trash. They couldn’t stop a stiff breeze. I don’t know if it’s sample size driven, situational, an incomplete data set, or what, but there’s no way that’s true. It’s just not possible.
It’ll be interesting to evaluate Fields if he gets a shot at starting with PIT compared to how he was in CHI. He’s a sharp kid, and the Steelers seems like an organization that will be able to coach up some good habits. He’s still a very young dude, and IMO needs guidance more than anything.
Chicago is simply not the place to develop a young QB. Best of luck to Caleb Williams. If I had the 1.01 I’d trade back for MH2 at a profit for that reason alone.
Which is exactly what the dude with 1.01 did in my 16-team SF league.
Like Bateman, i’ve been getting offers in the 2 SF leagues I have Fields. Also nothing worth accepting, but it seems like others agree with your take here that he could become a thing.I'm not saying the Bears made a sound or wrong decision in letting Justin go. I think Justin has played better each season. Still, I get the decision to go with Caleb Williams if you think he is better and will be much better than Justin in two years and getting to reset the QB contract by drafting Williams; that said, I do believe Justin can be a franchise QB for someone. He has cleaned up a lot and has more to do, but the progress seems to be happening each season. I'm not talking about win/loss or analytics, but what I have seen. Justin wants to be great, and hopefully, he is in a good place in Pittsburgh and gets a shot to show what he can do. In fantasy, he is a no-brainer when he is on the field. Nobody in the position runs like Justin.
Its very possible (likely) this ends up being a win-win for the Bears and Fields. Bears get a better QB, who reset the rookie contract, and Fields gets a team that is more patient, and has a much better track record of developing players.I'm not saying the Bears made a sound or wrong decision in letting Justin go. I think Justin has played better each season. Still, I get the decision to go with Caleb Williams if you think he is better and will be much better than Justin in two years and getting to reset the QB contract by drafting Williams; that said, I do believe Justin can be a franchise QB for someone. He has cleaned up a lot and has more to do, but the progress seems to be happening each season. I'm not talking about win/loss or analytics, but what I have seen. Justin wants to be great, and hopefully, he is in a good place in Pittsburgh and gets a shot to show what he can do. In fantasy, he is a no-brainer when he is on the field. Nobody in the position runs like Justin.
I wouldn’t sell for less than a 1st. Maybe more.For those looking to take a shot on Fields what are people paying (in SF/2QB)? If you have Fields and are looking to sell what is a reasonable price you are looking at?
I think I want to get some Fields shares. I think he ends up starting sometime this year. Could flip him later for a bit of a profit or keep him as a playoff QB that can give you some crazy rushing stats.
My threshold is probably the same thing I paid for Howell, a mid to high 2nd. Both have promise, both have significant flaws, and both are in good situations. Either could start as soon as week 1 or be out of the league in 2 years. I could see paying a (late) future 1st for Fields if your league scoring skews heavy towards running QBs.For those looking to take a shot on Fields what are people paying (in SF/2QB)? If you have Fields and are looking to sell what is a reasonable price you are looking at?
I think I want to get some Fields shares. I think he ends up starting sometime this year. Could flip him later for a bit of a profit or keep him as a playoff QB that can give you some crazy rushing stats.