QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (5 Viewers)

[FairWarning]

There's a very real question whether paying him top dollar helps or hurts their chances, which is precisely what the impasse is all about.

The Ravens offered him a top dollar contract on par with Allen, Stafford, Wilson, Rodgers etc. The impasse has always been about how much of the contract is fully guaranteed.

I love me some LJ but you can't give him a huge, guaranteed contract. He still seems to have trouble with all-out pressure for one.

Not my decision. Just pointing out the Ravens already offered him a top of the market contract.

Although I personally think these knocks against him are nonsense.

I watch every Ravens game. He definitely gets happy feet and throws up questionable passes when there's all out pressure. I mean he's fantastic 90% of the time, but the 10% he struggles loses games when the D struggles the way they have. But I do think he has improved and will improve, just you can't give him a fully guaranteed contract.

The pick of course didn't help yesterday, but the defense is the reason they lost to Miami and Buffalo. He got them up by 21 and 17

I agree and why I prefessed my comments with a bad D.

I love me some LJ obviously, just don't think you can give him $240M guaranteed.

Tough call, running qbs don't age well.

 

[humpback]

There's a very real question whether paying him top dollar helps or hurts their chances, which is precisely what the impasse is all about.

The Ravens offered him a top dollar contract on par with Allen, Stafford, Wilson, Rodgers etc. The impasse has always been about how much of the contract is fully guaranteed.

I love me some LJ but you can't give him a huge, guaranteed contract. He still seems to have trouble with all-out pressure for one.

Not my decision. Just pointing out the Ravens already offered him a top of the market contract.

Although I personally think these knocks against him are nonsense.

The guaranteed portion is by far the most important part of the contract so no, it doesn't seem like they offered him a top of the market contract. We don't really know what they offered him, but the rumors are that they offered him a mega deal but with far less guaranteed than Watson.

 

[humpback]

There's a very real question whether paying him top dollar helps or hurts their chances, which is precisely what the impasse is all about.

The Ravens offered him a top dollar contract on par with Allen, Stafford, Wilson, Rodgers etc. The impasse has always been about how much of the contract is fully guaranteed.

I love me some LJ but you can't give him a huge, guaranteed contract. He still seems to have trouble with all-out pressure for one.

Not my decision. Just pointing out the Ravens already offered him a top of the market contract.

Although I personally think these knocks against him are nonsense.

I watch every Ravens game. He definitely gets happy feet and throws up questionable passes when there's all out pressure. I mean he's fantastic 90% of the time, but the 10% he struggles loses games when the D struggles the way they have. But I do think he has improved and will improve, just you can't give him a fully guaranteed contract.

The pick of course didn't help yesterday, but the defense is the reason they lost to Miami and Buffalo. He got them up by 21 and 17

Certainly true against Miami but yesterday it was the offense’s fault. The defense gifted the Ravens 7 points by taking a pick inside the 5 5 minutes into the game. I think another fg came off a fumble recovery. The offense was awful. The conditions didn’t help anyone offensively. Bateman had 2-3 big drops. The refs had 2 garbage calls that cost the offense points. The 2 picks were on a tipped ball at the LOS and a 4th down throw that had to be put up (sort of). Not really Lamar’s fault.

As you pointed out, no, the defense absolutely wasn't the reason they lost to Buffalo- they were responsible for half of their offense and held Allen to his worst passing game by far despite being on the field an insane amount of the time.

But then you go and say his INT's weren't really his fault? The first one he threw right into the middle of the defensive line, I think it hit one of the lineman in the helmet or shoulder pad and popped up into the air. He has lots of batted balls because he's fairly short for a QB and drops down on many of his throws so that comes with the territory and yes, it's his fault. On the one towards the end of the game, Duvernay was WIDE open, like no one within 6-8 yards of him in the end zone, he just didn't see him. Then he throws it up for grabs (like he did earlier and got bailed out with a reception instead of another INT), when an INT is about the worst thing you could have happen there.

He had a bad game. Doesn't make him a bad player, or unworthy of a big contract, but let's be real.

 

[Cobbler1]

There's a very real question whether paying him top dollar helps or hurts their chances, which is precisely what the impasse is all about.

The Ravens offered him a top dollar contract on par with Allen, Stafford, Wilson, Rodgers etc. The impasse has always been about how much of the contract is fully guaranteed.

I love me some LJ but you can't give him a huge, guaranteed contract. He still seems to have trouble with all-out pressure for one.

Not my decision. Just pointing out the Ravens already offered him a top of the market contract.

Although I personally think these knocks against him are nonsense.

I watch every Ravens game. He definitely gets happy feet and throws up questionable passes when there's all out pressure. I mean he's fantastic 90% of the time, but the 10% he struggles loses games when the D struggles the way they have. But I do think he has improved and will improve, just you can't give him a fully guaranteed contract.

The pick of course didn't help yesterday, but the defense is the reason they lost to Miami and Buffalo. He got them up by 21 and 17

Certainly true against Miami but yesterday it was the offense’s fault. The defense gifted the Ravens 7 points by taking a pick inside the 5 5 minutes into the game. I think another fg came off a fumble recovery. The offense was awful. The conditions didn’t help anyone offensively. Bateman had 2-3 big drops. The refs had 2 garbage calls that cost the offense points. The 2 picks were on a tipped ball at the LOS and a 4th down throw that had to be put up (sort of). Not really Lamar’s fault.

As you pointed out, no, the defense absolutely wasn't the reason they lost to Buffalo- they were responsible for half of their offense and held Allen to his worst passing game by far despite being on the field an insane amount of the time.

But then you go and say his INT's weren't really his fault? The first one he threw right into the middle of the defensive line, I think it hit one of the lineman in the helmet or shoulder pad and popped up into the air. He has lots of batted balls because he's fairly short for a QB and drops down on many of his throws so that comes with the territory and yes, it's his fault. On the one towards the end of the game, Duvernay was WIDE open, like no one within 6-8 yards of him in the end zone, he just didn't see him. Then he throws it up for grabs (like he did earlier and got bailed out with a reception instead of another INT), when an INT is about the worst thing you could have happen there.

He had a bad game. Doesn't make him a bad player, or unworthy of a big contract, but let's be real.

Ok that’s somewhat fair. He’s already fading back with 2 rushers at him when Duv uncovers but he missed him. I’m not going to hold throwing one up against him in that situation. The alternative was taking a sack which is just as bad or throwing it away which is never going to happen. That was my point.

He has lots of passes tipped? So if I’m remembering your previous commentary on Lamar- you think he’s a weak armed, inaccurate, poor decision maker, now apparently gets lots of passes tipped. How in the world is his interception % 2.4 and passer rating 98.7?

 

[humpback]

There's a very real question whether paying him top dollar helps or hurts their chances, which is precisely what the impasse is all about.

The Ravens offered him a top dollar contract on par with Allen, Stafford, Wilson, Rodgers etc. The impasse has always been about how much of the contract is fully guaranteed.

I love me some LJ but you can't give him a huge, guaranteed contract. He still seems to have trouble with all-out pressure for one.

Not my decision. Just pointing out the Ravens already offered him a top of the market contract.

Although I personally think these knocks against him are nonsense.

I watch every Ravens game. He definitely gets happy feet and throws up questionable passes when there's all out pressure. I mean he's fantastic 90% of the time, but the 10% he struggles loses games when the D struggles the way they have. But I do think he has improved and will improve, just you can't give him a fully guaranteed contract.

The pick of course didn't help yesterday, but the defense is the reason they lost to Miami and Buffalo. He got them up by 21 and 17

Certainly true against Miami but yesterday it was the offense’s fault. The defense gifted the Ravens 7 points by taking a pick inside the 5 5 minutes into the game. I think another fg came off a fumble recovery. The offense was awful. The conditions didn’t help anyone offensively. Bateman had 2-3 big drops. The refs had 2 garbage calls that cost the offense points. The 2 picks were on a tipped ball at the LOS and a 4th down throw that had to be put up (sort of). Not really Lamar’s fault.

As you pointed out, no, the defense absolutely wasn't the reason they lost to Buffalo- they were responsible for half of their offense and held Allen to his worst passing game by far despite being on the field an insane amount of the time.

But then you go and say his INT's weren't really his fault? The first one he threw right into the middle of the defensive line, I think it hit one of the lineman in the helmet or shoulder pad and popped up into the air. He has lots of batted balls because he's fairly short for a QB and drops down on many of his throws so that comes with the territory and yes, it's his fault. On the one towards the end of the game, Duvernay was WIDE open, like no one within 6-8 yards of him in the end zone, he just didn't see him. Then he throws it up for grabs (like he did earlier and got bailed out with a reception instead of another INT), when an INT is about the worst thing you could have happen there.

He had a bad game. Doesn't make him a bad player, or unworthy of a big contract, but let's be real.

Ok that’s somewhat fair. He’s already fading back with 2 rushers at him when Duv uncovers but he missed him. I’m not going to hold throwing one up against him in that situation. The alternative was taking a sack which is just as bad or throwing it away which is never going to happen. That was my point.

He has lots of passes tipped? So if I’m remembering your previous commentary on Lamar- you think he’s a weak armed, inaccurate, poor decision maker, now apparently gets lots of passes tipped. How in the world is his interception % 2.4 and passer rating 98.7?

Sorry, but not true. Here's the clip of the play. You can't see the whole thing at once, but you can see that there wasn't any pressure on him initially, and then you can see how wide open Duvernay was later in the clip. Considering that they ran that play from the 2 yard line, it's pretty obvious that he was open before Lamar started backing up (which you could argue he didn't need to do anyway). He simply didn't see him until it was too late. And yes, throwing it away certainly was an option, even Harbaugh said he figured worst case scenario is they got the ball at the 2 yd. line in his explanation for going for it. You can't throw an INT in that situation.

I'm not going to address your bs strawman, instead I'll just reiterate what I actually said- he's a phenomenal athlete and player. He has far more positives than negatives, but that doesn't mean we should pretend there aren't any negatives. He had a bad game, and yes, those picks were really his fault.

 

[Cobbler1]

There's a very real question whether paying him top dollar helps or hurts their chances, which is precisely what the impasse is all about.

The Ravens offered him a top dollar contract on par with Allen, Stafford, Wilson, Rodgers etc. The impasse has always been about how much of the contract is fully guaranteed.

I love me some LJ but you can't give him a huge, guaranteed contract. He still seems to have trouble with all-out pressure for one.

Not my decision. Just pointing out the Ravens already offered him a top of the market contract.

Although I personally think these knocks against him are nonsense.

I watch every Ravens game. He definitely gets happy feet and throws up questionable passes when there's all out pressure. I mean he's fantastic 90% of the time, but the 10% he struggles loses games when the D struggles the way they have. But I do think he has improved and will improve, just you can't give him a fully guaranteed contract.

The pick of course didn't help yesterday, but the defense is the reason they lost to Miami and Buffalo. He got them up by 21 and 17

Certainly true against Miami but yesterday it was the offense’s fault. The defense gifted the Ravens 7 points by taking a pick inside the 5 5 minutes into the game. I think another fg came off a fumble recovery. The offense was awful. The conditions didn’t help anyone offensively. Bateman had 2-3 big drops. The refs had 2 garbage calls that cost the offense points. The 2 picks were on a tipped ball at the LOS and a 4th down throw that had to be put up (sort of). Not really Lamar’s fault.

As you pointed out, no, the defense absolutely wasn't the reason they lost to Buffalo- they were responsible for half of their offense and held Allen to his worst passing game by far despite being on the field an insane amount of the time.

But then you go and say his INT's weren't really his fault? The first one he threw right into the middle of the defensive line, I think it hit one of the lineman in the helmet or shoulder pad and popped up into the air. He has lots of batted balls because he's fairly short for a QB and drops down on many of his throws so that comes with the territory and yes, it's his fault. On the one towards the end of the game, Duvernay was WIDE open, like no one within 6-8 yards of him in the end zone, he just didn't see him. Then he throws it up for grabs (like he did earlier and got bailed out with a reception instead of another INT), when an INT is about the worst thing you could have happen there.

He had a bad game. Doesn't make him a bad player, or unworthy of a big contract, but let's be real.

Ok that’s somewhat fair. He’s already fading back with 2 rushers at him when Duv uncovers but he missed him. I’m not going to hold throwing one up against him in that situation. The alternative was taking a sack which is just as bad or throwing it away which is never going to happen. That was my point.

He has lots of passes tipped? So if I’m remembering your previous commentary on Lamar- you think he’s a weak armed, inaccurate, poor decision maker, now apparently gets lots of passes tipped. How in the world is his interception % 2.4 and passer rating 98.7?

Sorry, but not true. Here's the clip of the play. You can't see the whole thing at once, but you can see that there wasn't any pressure on him initially, and then you can see how wide open Duvernay was later in the clip. Considering that they ran that play from the 2 yard line, it's pretty obvious that he was open before Lamar started backing up (which you could argue he didn't need to do anyway). He simply didn't see him until it was too late. And yes, throwing it away certainly was an option, even Harbaugh said he figured worst case scenario is they got the ball at the 2 yd. line in his explanation for going for it. You can't throw an INT in that situation.

I'm not going to address your bs strawman, instead I'll just reiterate what I actually said- he's a phenomenal athlete and player. He has far more positives than negatives, but that doesn't mean we should pretend there aren't any negatives. He had a bad game, and yes, those picks were really his fault.

I’ve seen the clip. I agree it’s hard to put together from the angles. Andrews was his first read and when the guy jumped it to free Duvernay he should have reacted and cut it loose. When he hesitated it was too late. That’s on him. I disagree that he should have been expected to throw the ball away there. No TO was called to talk about that. The possibility of a pick drastically altering the game certainly wasn’t on my mind there.

It’s not a strawman. You’re overly critical on anything Lamar. I’m curious how you square that with his success as a passer. It’s seems you just dislike him for some reason.

 

[Chaka]

Jackson should get a top of market contract, end of story.

Watson's contract is, currently, an outlier but no one should blame Jackson for wanting a similar deal. Every QB who is negotiating a new deal should try and get a fully guaranteed contract. Frankly it's astonishing that the NFL contract funny money shenanigans have lasted this long. Players should expect shorter duration contracts if they're fully guaranteed but that also means they can get to their next contract sooner in a phenomenal growth market. 3 years, $140 mil fully guaranteed and he gets to negotiate his next contract while only 28-29 years old.

I believe Kyler Murray is the only "marquee" QB to sign an extension after Watson and, IMO, he isn't nearly the QB Lamar is. Murray's decision to agree to a non-fully guaranteed contract may not have been the best decision but is understandable considering his size and the fact that his coach and GM are apparently trying to get him killed by not building a reliable running game behind him. Kid is on pace to throw 735 times this year.

 

[humpback]

There's a very real question whether paying him top dollar helps or hurts their chances, which is precisely what the impasse is all about.

The Ravens offered him a top dollar contract on par with Allen, Stafford, Wilson, Rodgers etc. The impasse has always been about how much of the contract is fully guaranteed.

I love me some LJ but you can't give him a huge, guaranteed contract. He still seems to have trouble with all-out pressure for one.

Not my decision. Just pointing out the Ravens already offered him a top of the market contract.

Although I personally think these knocks against him are nonsense.

I watch every Ravens game. He definitely gets happy feet and throws up questionable passes when there's all out pressure. I mean he's fantastic 90% of the time, but the 10% he struggles loses games when the D struggles the way they have. But I do think he has improved and will improve, just you can't give him a fully guaranteed contract.

The pick of course didn't help yesterday, but the defense is the reason they lost to Miami and Buffalo. He got them up by 21 and 17

Certainly true against Miami but yesterday it was the offense’s fault. The defense gifted the Ravens 7 points by taking a pick inside the 5 5 minutes into the game. I think another fg came off a fumble recovery. The offense was awful. The conditions didn’t help anyone offensively. Bateman had 2-3 big drops. The refs had 2 garbage calls that cost the offense points. The 2 picks were on a tipped ball at the LOS and a 4th down throw that had to be put up (sort of). Not really Lamar’s fault.

As you pointed out, no, the defense absolutely wasn't the reason they lost to Buffalo- they were responsible for half of their offense and held Allen to his worst passing game by far despite being on the field an insane amount of the time.

But then you go and say his INT's weren't really his fault? The first one he threw right into the middle of the defensive line, I think it hit one of the lineman in the helmet or shoulder pad and popped up into the air. He has lots of batted balls because he's fairly short for a QB and drops down on many of his throws so that comes with the territory and yes, it's his fault. On the one towards the end of the game, Duvernay was WIDE open, like no one within 6-8 yards of him in the end zone, he just didn't see him. Then he throws it up for grabs (like he did earlier and got bailed out with a reception instead of another INT), when an INT is about the worst thing you could have happen there.

He had a bad game. Doesn't make him a bad player, or unworthy of a big contract, but let's be real.

Ok that’s somewhat fair. He’s already fading back with 2 rushers at him when Duv uncovers but he missed him. I’m not going to hold throwing one up against him in that situation. The alternative was taking a sack which is just as bad or throwing it away which is never going to happen. That was my point.

He has lots of passes tipped? So if I’m remembering your previous commentary on Lamar- you think he’s a weak armed, inaccurate, poor decision maker, now apparently gets lots of passes tipped. How in the world is his interception % 2.4 and passer rating 98.7?

Sorry, but not true. Here's the clip of the play. You can't see the whole thing at once, but you can see that there wasn't any pressure on him initially, and then you can see how wide open Duvernay was later in the clip. Considering that they ran that play from the 2 yard line, it's pretty obvious that he was open before Lamar started backing up (which you could argue he didn't need to do anyway). He simply didn't see him until it was too late. And yes, throwing it away certainly was an option, even Harbaugh said he figured worst case scenario is they got the ball at the 2 yd. line in his explanation for going for it. You can't throw an INT in that situation.

I'm not going to address your bs strawman, instead I'll just reiterate what I actually said- he's a phenomenal athlete and player. He has far more positives than negatives, but that doesn't mean we should pretend there aren't any negatives. He had a bad game, and yes, those picks were really his fault.

I’ve seen the clip. I agree it’s hard to put together from the angles. Andrews was his first read and when the guy jumped it to free Duvernay he should have reacted and cut it loose. When he hesitated it was too late. That’s on him. I disagree that he should have been expected to throw the ball away there. No TO was called to talk about that. The possibility of a pick drastically altering the game certainly wasn’t on my mind there.

It’s not a strawman. You’re overly critical on anything Lamar. I’m curious how you square that with his success as a passer. It’s seems you just dislike him for some reason.

Well, at least now you agree that it was on him, that's all I was saying. Same with the other one- when you whip the ball ~shoulder height right into a pack of 5 huge linemen and it pops up and gets picked, who is that on if not him?

No TO was taken, and it wasn't on your, my, Harbaugh's, or anyone else's mind, because it should go without saying. You CAN'T throw a pick there, it's very likely either going to do what it did (which drastically altered the game) or it's going to get returned for a TD.

I don't dislike him at all, I just don't want them to give him a Watson+ contract. For starters, I don't think it's wise for anyone to guarantee that much to any player, and "let's copy the Browns" is something no one said ever. His flaws, which yes he has even as I say once again that his good qualities are far greater, are just more reasoning for why it doesn't make sense to give him that record breaking deal. Ultimately it comes down to championships, and the reality is they haven't even come close to one with him being probably the biggest bargain in the NFL- it certainly isn't going to help their chances to blow the top off the market for him.

The Ravens are one of the best run organizations in the NFL, and I think they've handled this difficult situation very well. Kept it mostly in house, didn't cave, and he seems to be fine with the situation too. Good games against bad teams don't move the needle- let's see this season play out, if he changes the narrative and takes them deep into the playoffs, then I'm sure their offer will go up, and I would be in favor of it. If not, I'm guessing (and hoping) it doesn't. Honestly I think if he had an agent they'd have already signed a deal, Watson's contract is an aberration and isn't likely to be the new bar IMO.

 

[Cobbler1]

There's a very real question whether paying him top dollar helps or hurts their chances, which is precisely what the impasse is all about.

The Ravens offered him a top dollar contract on par with Allen, Stafford, Wilson, Rodgers etc. The impasse has always been about how much of the contract is fully guaranteed.

I love me some LJ but you can't give him a huge, guaranteed contract. He still seems to have trouble with all-out pressure for one.

Not my decision. Just pointing out the Ravens already offered him a top of the market contract.

Although I personally think these knocks against him are nonsense.

I watch every Ravens game. He definitely gets happy feet and throws up questionable passes when there's all out pressure. I mean he's fantastic 90% of the time, but the 10% he struggles loses games when the D struggles the way they have. But I do think he has improved and will improve, just you can't give him a fully guaranteed contract.

The pick of course didn't help yesterday, but the defense is the reason they lost to Miami and Buffalo. He got them up by 21 and 17

Certainly true against Miami but yesterday it was the offense’s fault. The defense gifted the Ravens 7 points by taking a pick inside the 5 5 minutes into the game. I think another fg came off a fumble recovery. The offense was awful. The conditions didn’t help anyone offensively. Bateman had 2-3 big drops. The refs had 2 garbage calls that cost the offense points. The 2 picks were on a tipped ball at the LOS and a 4th down throw that had to be put up (sort of). Not really Lamar’s fault.

As you pointed out, no, the defense absolutely wasn't the reason they lost to Buffalo- they were responsible for half of their offense and held Allen to his worst passing game by far despite being on the field an insane amount of the time.

But then you go and say his INT's weren't really his fault? The first one he threw right into the middle of the defensive line, I think it hit one of the lineman in the helmet or shoulder pad and popped up into the air. He has lots of batted balls because he's fairly short for a QB and drops down on many of his throws so that comes with the territory and yes, it's his fault. On the one towards the end of the game, Duvernay was WIDE open, like no one within 6-8 yards of him in the end zone, he just didn't see him. Then he throws it up for grabs (like he did earlier and got bailed out with a reception instead of another INT), when an INT is about the worst thing you could have happen there.

He had a bad game. Doesn't make him a bad player, or unworthy of a big contract, but let's be real.

Ok that’s somewhat fair. He’s already fading back with 2 rushers at him when Duv uncovers but he missed him. I’m not going to hold throwing one up against him in that situation. The alternative was taking a sack which is just as bad or throwing it away which is never going to happen. That was my point.

He has lots of passes tipped? So if I’m remembering your previous commentary on Lamar- you think he’s a weak armed, inaccurate, poor decision maker, now apparently gets lots of passes tipped. How in the world is his interception % 2.4 and passer rating 98.7?

Sorry, but not true. Here's the clip of the play. You can't see the whole thing at once, but you can see that there wasn't any pressure on him initially, and then you can see how wide open Duvernay was later in the clip. Considering that they ran that play from the 2 yard line, it's pretty obvious that he was open before Lamar started backing up (which you could argue he didn't need to do anyway). He simply didn't see him until it was too late. And yes, throwing it away certainly was an option, even Harbaugh said he figured worst case scenario is they got the ball at the 2 yd. line in his explanation for going for it. You can't throw an INT in that situation.

I'm not going to address your bs strawman, instead I'll just reiterate what I actually said- he's a phenomenal athlete and player. He has far more positives than negatives, but that doesn't mean we should pretend there aren't any negatives. He had a bad game, and yes, those picks were really his fault.

I’ve seen the clip. I agree it’s hard to put together from the angles. Andrews was his first read and when the guy jumped it to free Duvernay he should have reacted and cut it loose. When he hesitated it was too late. That’s on him. I disagree that he should have been expected to throw the ball away there. No TO was called to talk about that. The possibility of a pick drastically altering the game certainly wasn’t on my mind there.

It’s not a strawman. You’re overly critical on anything Lamar. I’m curious how you square that with his success as a passer. It’s seems you just dislike him for some reason.

Well, at least now you agree that it was on him, that's all I was saying. Same with the other one- when you whip the ball ~shoulder height right into a pack of 5 huge linemen and it pops up and gets picked, who is that on if not him?

No TO was taken, and it wasn't on your, my, Harbaugh's, or anyone else's mind, because it should go without saying. You CAN'T throw a pick there, it's very likely either going to do what it did (which drastically altered the game) or it's going to get returned for a TD.

I don't dislike him at all, I just don't want them to give him a Watson+ contract. For starters, I don't think it's wise for anyone to guarantee that much to any player, and "let's copy the Browns" is something no one said ever. His flaws, which yes he has even as I say once again that his good qualities are far greater, are just more reasoning for why it doesn't make sense to give him that record breaking deal. Ultimately it comes down to championships, and the reality is they haven't even come close to one with him being probably the biggest bargain in the NFL- it certainly isn't going to help their chances to blow the top off the market for him.

The Ravens are one of the best run organizations in the NFL, and I think they've handled this difficult situation very well. Kept it mostly in house, didn't cave, and he seems to be fine with the situation too. Good games against bad teams don't move the needle- let's see this season play out, if he changes the narrative and takes them deep into the playoffs, then I'm sure their offer will go up, and I would be in favor of it. If not, I'm guessing (and hoping) it doesn't. Honestly I think if he had an agent they'd have already signed a deal, Watson's contract is an aberration and isn't likely to be the new bar IMO.

On the tipped ball you were right. I thought someone got their hands up but it was a poor throw. I don’t blame him or any qb for putting a ball up for grabs on 4th and goal late in a tied game. I don’t expect anyone to have the wherewithal to throw it away there. It’s just not a logical move in the heat of the moment.

You’ve ripped Lamar well before the contract stuff became a thing. I agree that Watson’s deal messed up the market. I think they’ll get a deal done with more overall money but less guaranteed than Deshaun. But who knows. Most people agree Lamar has been great this year and that price is going . The alleged offer that had only $130 guaranteed isn’t close.

I disagree with your final point. Lamar has beaten plenty of good teams. And the 2019 was the best Ravens team I’ve ever seen. They absolutely stomped teams good and bad at a historic pace for 12 games in a row. And the choked in the playoffs. That team was plenty capable of winning a championship.

 

[ActionJackson68]

For many of the reasons listed here, I don't mind giving LJ a top contract, just not a fully guaranteed one. If the Ravens can't come to agreement with him this season I say trade him for like 4 first round picks in the offseason. I love him very much but he's not Tom Brady.

 

[humpback]

On the tipped ball you were right. I thought someone got their hands up but it was a poor throw. I don’t blame him or any qb for putting a ball up for grabs on 4th and goal late in a tied game. I don’t expect anyone to have the wherewithal to throw it away there. It’s just not a logical move in the heat of the moment.

You’ve ripped Lamar well before the contract stuff became a thing. I agree that Watson’s deal messed up the market. I think they’ll get a deal done with more overall money but less guaranteed than Deshaun. But who knows. Most people agree Lamar has been great this year and that price is going . The alleged offer that had only $130 guaranteed isn’t close.

I disagree with your final point. Lamar has beaten plenty of good teams. And the 2019 was the best Ravens team I’ve ever seen. They absolutely stomped teams good and bad at a historic pace for 12 games in a row. And the choked in the playoffs. That team was plenty capable of winning a championship.

Okay cool, so now we finally agree that those INTs were his fault and he had a bad game.

Most people may agree that his price is going up, but most people are fans who are looking at things more like a fantasy football perspective instead of an NFL one. I'm confident that his price hasn't gone up in the eyes of the Ravens, which is really all that matters.

I've made it clear that I like Lamar and think he's an excellent player, and since the discussion is around should what insane amount of money he's "worth" it should go without saying that he's very good. The question is, is he ~$250 mil guaranteed good? And my (and the Ravens) answer is "no". That isn't a slight, it doesn't mean I don't think he's good, it's just that I am cognizant of the salary cap implications of these monster deals where it doesn't seem like most are. If you're going to get $250 mil guaranteed, you had better be pretty much flawless, especially when it counts, and Lamar is not (no one is).

I'm not sure what you mean by the last part, you pretty much made my point for me. That team was great, and then Lamar crapped the bed and they got smoked in their first playoff game (at home) against a mediocre Titans team. The very next week, Mahomes dominated the very same team before going on to win the Super Bowl. Lamar has played poorly in the post season, it really doesn't seem debatable. He was young and has improved since then so maybe he can get over the hump but so far, there's really no denying that he's come up short in the post season. It's kind of hard to argue that he "deserves" to set a contract record when his record in the post season is what it is.

In terms of $130 mil guaranteed being "not close", I wouldn't say that. We really have no idea what the offer looked like, and for everyone other than Watson there's a pretty big difference between "guaranteed at signing" and "practical guaranteed". Those numbers for Mahomes are $63 mil and $141 mil and for Allen are $100 mil and $150 mil. $130 mil for Lamar certainly seems to be in the ballpark, but again, the devil is in the details.

In any event, no point in continuing to go around and around, I'm perfectly fine agreeing to disagree.

 

[Cobbler1]

We can to disagree on several of those points and move on from them @humpback

 

[Cobbler1]

Lamar Jackson is 4th in the NFL in passer rating. He’s tied for first in passing tds. He’s 9th in rushing yards. He has more tds by himself than all but 4 teams have TOTAL. At this pace he would throw for 47 tds (17 picks) while rushing for 1330 and 8.5 tds. That’s a blistering start.

 

[humpback]

Lamar Jackson is 4th in the NFL in passer rating. He’s tied for first in passing tds. He’s 9th in rushing yards. He has more tds by himself than all but 4 teams have TOTAL. At this pace he would throw for 47 tds (17 picks) while rushing for 1330 and 8.5 tds. That’s a blistering start.

I'll meet you where you're at, let's use your (very flawed IMO) logic here for a minute. Okay, he's 4th in passer rating, so let's make him the 4th highest paid QB. I'll even ignore that he was 23rd in passer rating last year, 11th the year before, and his dreadful career post season passer rating (and record). Draw it up, I'd sign it right now, done deal. Do you see how silly that is? You can't even cherry pick things to make a reasonable argument that they should give him a record breaking contract.

The bottom line is that he's one of the best QBs in the game, but he is not the best QB in the game. If you pay him more (possibly significantly more) than guys who are better than him like Mahomes and Allen, you will put yourself in a competitive disadvantage to those teams in the future. That's not how elite organizations operate.

 

[Cobbler1]

Lamar Jackson is 4th in the NFL in passer rating. He’s tied for first in passing tds. He’s 9th in rushing yards. He has more tds by himself than all but 4 teams have TOTAL. At this pace he would throw for 47 tds (17 picks) while rushing for 1330 and 8.5 tds. That’s a blistering start.

I'll meet you where you're at, let's use your (very flawed IMO) logic here for a minute. Okay, he's 4th in passer rating, so let's make him the 4th highest paid QB. I'll even ignore that he was 23rd in passer rating last year, 11th the year before, and his dreadful career post season passer rating (and record). Draw it up, I'd sign it right now, done deal. Do you see how silly that is? You can't even cherry pick things to make a reasonable argument that they should give him a record breaking contract.

The bottom line is that he's one of the best QBs in the game, but he is not the best QB in the game. If you pay him more (possibly significantly more) than guys who are better than him like Mahomes and Allen, you will put yourself in a competitive disadvantage to those teams in the future. That's not how elite organizations operate.

I posted those numbers to show the hot start he’s off to, not to say he’s entitled to a record breaking contract. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge how good he’s been through the first quarter of the season but he has been. If he does continue this torrid pace he has a very good shot at winning the MVP for the second time in 4 years.


The Allen and Mahomes contracts aren’t the only contracts to be used as examples. Kyler got paid after those guys and got more guaranteed. So did Russ. Carr got $40 mill a year. Rodgers got 50. Those guys certainly aren’t better than Allen or Mahomes but they got more in some ways. And Lamar should get more than those guys. He’s super talented and won a lot and the next man up to be paid which has always been a thing also.

I think the Ravens would happily give him the Mahomes contract if I’m assuming correctly that they can get out of it as soon the 140 guaranteed is burned. They and Lamar both know he comes with some risk so the guaranteed money is likely the sticking point. Then there’s the Watson deal. We can all say it’s an outlier and it should be regarded as such but Lamar is going to say you think I’m risky?!?!?, this dude can get cancelled any second and he got $250 guaranteed.

You think the Ravens will be at a meaningful competitive disadvantage if they have to pay Lamar $5 million a year more than Mahomes? Or guarantee more money? $5 million is a very small drop in the bucket and the guaranteed money only matter if he busts. Imagine the competitive disadvantage they’d be at if they had to play Huntley all year or take a chance on some late first round rookie or trade several firsts to move up to get a top of the first round qb. Maybe you get Lamar and get lightning in a bottle again but the odds are against it. The only other option to paying him a truckload is trading Lamar for a massive haul…and then hope you find a qb.

 

[humpback]

Lamar Jackson is 4th in the NFL in passer rating. He’s tied for first in passing tds. He’s 9th in rushing yards. He has more tds by himself than all but 4 teams have TOTAL. At this pace he would throw for 47 tds (17 picks) while rushing for 1330 and 8.5 tds. That’s a blistering start.

I'll meet you where you're at, let's use your (very flawed IMO) logic here for a minute. Okay, he's 4th in passer rating, so let's make him the 4th highest paid QB. I'll even ignore that he was 23rd in passer rating last year, 11th the year before, and his dreadful career post season passer rating (and record). Draw it up, I'd sign it right now, done deal. Do you see how silly that is? You can't even cherry pick things to make a reasonable argument that they should give him a record breaking contract.

The bottom line is that he's one of the best QBs in the game, but he is not the best QB in the game. If you pay him more (possibly significantly more) than guys who are better than him like Mahomes and Allen, you will put yourself in a competitive disadvantage to those teams in the future. That's not how elite organizations operate.

I posted those numbers to show the hot start he’s off to, not to say he’s entitled to a record breaking contract. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge how good he’s been through the first quarter of the season but he has been. If he does continue this torrid pace he has a very good shot at winning the MVP for the second time in 4 years.


The Allen and Mahomes contracts aren’t the only contracts to be used as examples. Kyler got paid after those guys and got more guaranteed. So did Russ. Carr got $40 mill a year. Rodgers got 50. Those guys certainly aren’t better than Allen or Mahomes but they got more in some ways. And Lamar should get more than those guys. He’s super talented and won a lot and the next man up to be paid which has always been a thing also.

I think the Ravens would happily give him the Mahomes contract if I’m assuming correctly that they can get out of it as soon the 140 guaranteed is burned. They and Lamar both know he comes with some risk so the guaranteed money is likely the sticking point. Then there’s the Watson deal. We can all say it’s an outlier and it should be regarded as such but Lamar is going to say you think I’m risky?!?!?, this dude can get cancelled any second and he got $250 guaranteed.

You think the Ravens will be at a meaningful competitive disadvantage if they have to pay Lamar $5 million a year more than Mahomes? Or guarantee more money? $5 million is a very small drop in the bucket and the guaranteed money only matter if he busts. Imagine the competitive disadvantage they’d be at if they had to play Huntley all year or take a chance on some late first round rookie or trade several firsts to move up to get a top of the first round qb. Maybe you get Lamar and get lightning in a bottle again but the odds are against it. The only other option to paying him a truckload is trading Lamar for a massive haul…and then hope you find a qb.

I think this comes back to the fantasy vs. NFL football perspective. Lamar is off to a killer start for fantasy, but in NFL terms, he's 2-2 and just played poorly in a huge home game against a key conference opponent that was theirs for the taking. Not saying he's having a bad year by any stretch, he's been very good, just think most fans focus on the wrong things.

Yeah, it's hard to compare all of the contract specifics since it's all so complicated. Carr got $40 mil per, but only 3 years and only between $25-$65 mil guaranteed (I use only very loosely). Kyler got a big deal for sure, but again, hard to tell what it "really" is, it's between $103-$189 mil guaranteed, which is a huge difference obviously. It's also from a franchise that has never won a Super Bowl. Wilson and Rodgers got paid, but again, between $124-$161 mil and $101-$150 mil guaranteed. That's a lot less than Lamar is looking for (if the rumors are true), and they both have Super Bowl titles. The Watson thing is the giant sticking point, and I understand why he would try to use that, but I just don't see any way the Ravens could consider it. It's a one-off from one of the worst organizations in the NFL, and I think if he had an agent, who had other clients and was talking to other GM's, he'd be able to convince him of that and they would have come to an agreement. I think the Mahomes and Allen deals are both the best comps, and that's what it seems like they're comfortable using.

It depends on your definition of "meaningful", but in general yes, if the Ravens have to pay Lamar more than the Chiefs have to pay Mahomes or the Bills have to pay Allen, it would put them at a competitive disadvantage. Obviously the direct disadvantage of having a (even slightly) lesser QB, but also less money to use on other players. You can't just think of it as $5 mil to sign a back-up either, it can be the difference between being able to pay someone $15 mil or lose them and have to settle for a lesser player at $10 mil. Call it Mahomes and Andrews vs. Lamar and Njoku, or Allen and Andrews vs. Lamar and Knox. Doesn't have to be a TE obviously or even an offensive player, it applies to any position- paying a ton of money to one player means you have less you can pay to others, which is why it's such a big advantage to have a good QB on a rookie contract. Once you have to pay them a ton, it makes it a lot harder to stay on top. You can see it in the Chiefs, they have to make a lot of difficult decisions like letting Tyreek go now that the big numbers are hitting for Mahomes.

It's not as simple as "he's really good, give him whatever he wants". If this was baseball, I'd say hand him the blank check.

 

[Cobbler1]

Lamar Jackson is 4th in the NFL in passer rating. He’s tied for first in passing tds. He’s 9th in rushing yards. He has more tds by himself than all but 4 teams have TOTAL. At this pace he would throw for 47 tds (17 picks) while rushing for 1330 and 8.5 tds. That’s a blistering start.

I'll meet you where you're at, let's use your (very flawed IMO) logic here for a minute. Okay, he's 4th in passer rating, so let's make him the 4th highest paid QB. I'll even ignore that he was 23rd in passer rating last year, 11th the year before, and his dreadful career post season passer rating (and record). Draw it up, I'd sign it right now, done deal. Do you see how silly that is? You can't even cherry pick things to make a reasonable argument that they should give him a record breaking contract.

The bottom line is that he's one of the best QBs in the game, but he is not the best QB in the game. If you pay him more (possibly significantly more) than guys who are better than him like Mahomes and Allen, you will put yourself in a competitive disadvantage to those teams in the future. That's not how elite organizations operate.

I posted those numbers to show the hot start he’s off to, not to say he’s entitled to a record breaking contract. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge how good he’s been through the first quarter of the season but he has been. If he does continue this torrid pace he has a very good shot at winning the MVP for the second time in 4 years.


The Allen and Mahomes contracts aren’t the only contracts to be used as examples. Kyler got paid after those guys and got more guaranteed. So did Russ. Carr got $40 mill a year. Rodgers got 50. Those guys certainly aren’t better than Allen or Mahomes but they got more in some ways. And Lamar should get more than those guys. He’s super talented and won a lot and the next man up to be paid which has always been a thing also.

I think the Ravens would happily give him the Mahomes contract if I’m assuming correctly that they can get out of it as soon the 140 guaranteed is burned. They and Lamar both know he comes with some risk so the guaranteed money is likely the sticking point. Then there’s the Watson deal. We can all say it’s an outlier and it should be regarded as such but Lamar is going to say you think I’m risky?!?!?, this dude can get cancelled any second and he got $250 guaranteed.

You think the Ravens will be at a meaningful competitive disadvantage if they have to pay Lamar $5 million a year more than Mahomes? Or guarantee more money? $5 million is a very small drop in the bucket and the guaranteed money only matter if he busts. Imagine the competitive disadvantage they’d be at if they had to play Huntley all year or take a chance on some late first round rookie or trade several firsts to move up to get a top of the first round qb. Maybe you get Lamar and get lightning in a bottle again but the odds are against it. The only other option to paying him a truckload is trading Lamar for a massive haul…and then hope you find a qb.

I think this comes back to the fantasy vs. NFL football perspective. Lamar is off to a killer start for fantasy, but in NFL terms, he's 2-2 and just played poorly in a huge home game against a key conference opponent that was theirs for the taking. Not saying he's having a bad year by any stretch, he's been very good, just think most fans focus on the wrong things.

Yeah, it's hard to compare all of the contract specifics since it's all so complicated. Carr got $40 mil per, but only 3 years and only between $25-$65 mil guaranteed (I use only very loosely). Kyler got a big deal for sure, but again, hard to tell what it "really" is, it's between $103-$189 mil guaranteed, which is a huge difference obviously. It's also from a franchise that has never won a Super Bowl. Wilson and Rodgers got paid, but again, between $124-$161 mil and $101-$150 mil guaranteed. That's a lot less than Lamar is looking for (if the rumors are true), and they both have Super Bowl titles. The Watson thing is the giant sticking point, and I understand why he would try to use that, but I just don't see any way the Ravens could consider it. It's a one-off from one of the worst organizations in the NFL, and I think if he had an agent, who had other clients and was talking to other GM's, he'd be able to convince him of that and they would have come to an agreement. I think the Mahomes and Allen deals are both the best comps, and that's what it seems like they're comfortable using.

It depends on your definition of "meaningful", but in general yes, if the Ravens have to pay Lamar more than the Chiefs have to pay Mahomes or the Bills have to pay Allen, it would put them at a competitive disadvantage. Obviously the direct disadvantage of having a (even slightly) lesser QB, but also less money to use on other players. You can't just think of it as $5 mil to sign a back-up either, it can be the difference between being able to pay someone $15 mil or lose them and have to settle for a lesser player at $10 mil. Call it Mahomes and Andrews vs. Lamar and Njoku, or Allen and Andrews vs. Lamar and Knox. Doesn't have to be a TE obviously or even an offensive player, it applies to any position- paying a ton of money to one player means you have less you can pay to others, which is why it's such a big advantage to have a good QB on a rookie contract. Once you have to pay them a ton, it makes it a lot harder to stay on top. You can see it in the Chiefs, they have to make a lot of difficult decisions like letting Tyreek go now that the big numbers are hitting for Mahomes.

It's not as simple as "he's really good, give him whatever he wants". If this was baseball, I'd say hand him the blank check.

MVP voting isn’t about fantasy numbers and his start has him in top 3 discussion for that. There’s no shame in losing a close game to the Bills (possibly the best team in football) and he didn’t play much worse than stud Josh Allen did in that game or Mahomes did week 3. Qbs have bad games sometimes and can still be studs.

And again, what’s the alternative? You can have 3 Mark Andrews against Mahomes and it won’t matter if your qb is Mitchell Trubisky or Daniel Jones. Franchise qbs in their primes simply aren’t given up. The only one who was is Watson and there was lots of off the field reasons for that. Much easier to try to make up that hypothetical 5 million by drafting or signing a tiny bit better than your competition than it is to find a franchise qb.

 

[humpback]

Lamar Jackson is 4th in the NFL in passer rating. He’s tied for first in passing tds. He’s 9th in rushing yards. He has more tds by himself than all but 4 teams have TOTAL. At this pace he would throw for 47 tds (17 picks) while rushing for 1330 and 8.5 tds. That’s a blistering start.

I'll meet you where you're at, let's use your (very flawed IMO) logic here for a minute. Okay, he's 4th in passer rating, so let's make him the 4th highest paid QB. I'll even ignore that he was 23rd in passer rating last year, 11th the year before, and his dreadful career post season passer rating (and record). Draw it up, I'd sign it right now, done deal. Do you see how silly that is? You can't even cherry pick things to make a reasonable argument that they should give him a record breaking contract.

The bottom line is that he's one of the best QBs in the game, but he is not the best QB in the game. If you pay him more (possibly significantly more) than guys who are better than him like Mahomes and Allen, you will put yourself in a competitive disadvantage to those teams in the future. That's not how elite organizations operate.

I posted those numbers to show the hot start he’s off to, not to say he’s entitled to a record breaking contract. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge how good he’s been through the first quarter of the season but he has been. If he does continue this torrid pace he has a very good shot at winning the MVP for the second time in 4 years.


The Allen and Mahomes contracts aren’t the only contracts to be used as examples. Kyler got paid after those guys and got more guaranteed. So did Russ. Carr got $40 mill a year. Rodgers got 50. Those guys certainly aren’t better than Allen or Mahomes but they got more in some ways. And Lamar should get more than those guys. He’s super talented and won a lot and the next man up to be paid which has always been a thing also.

I think the Ravens would happily give him the Mahomes contract if I’m assuming correctly that they can get out of it as soon the 140 guaranteed is burned. They and Lamar both know he comes with some risk so the guaranteed money is likely the sticking point. Then there’s the Watson deal. We can all say it’s an outlier and it should be regarded as such but Lamar is going to say you think I’m risky?!?!?, this dude can get cancelled any second and he got $250 guaranteed.

You think the Ravens will be at a meaningful competitive disadvantage if they have to pay Lamar $5 million a year more than Mahomes? Or guarantee more money? $5 million is a very small drop in the bucket and the guaranteed money only matter if he busts. Imagine the competitive disadvantage they’d be at if they had to play Huntley all year or take a chance on some late first round rookie or trade several firsts to move up to get a top of the first round qb. Maybe you get Lamar and get lightning in a bottle again but the odds are against it. The only other option to paying him a truckload is trading Lamar for a massive haul…and then hope you find a qb.

I think this comes back to the fantasy vs. NFL football perspective. Lamar is off to a killer start for fantasy, but in NFL terms, he's 2-2 and just played poorly in a huge home game against a key conference opponent that was theirs for the taking. Not saying he's having a bad year by any stretch, he's been very good, just think most fans focus on the wrong things.

Yeah, it's hard to compare all of the contract specifics since it's all so complicated. Carr got $40 mil per, but only 3 years and only between $25-$65 mil guaranteed (I use only very loosely). Kyler got a big deal for sure, but again, hard to tell what it "really" is, it's between $103-$189 mil guaranteed, which is a huge difference obviously. It's also from a franchise that has never won a Super Bowl. Wilson and Rodgers got paid, but again, between $124-$161 mil and $101-$150 mil guaranteed. That's a lot less than Lamar is looking for (if the rumors are true), and they both have Super Bowl titles. The Watson thing is the giant sticking point, and I understand why he would try to use that, but I just don't see any way the Ravens could consider it. It's a one-off from one of the worst organizations in the NFL, and I think if he had an agent, who had other clients and was talking to other GM's, he'd be able to convince him of that and they would have come to an agreement. I think the Mahomes and Allen deals are both the best comps, and that's what it seems like they're comfortable using.

It depends on your definition of "meaningful", but in general yes, if the Ravens have to pay Lamar more than the Chiefs have to pay Mahomes or the Bills have to pay Allen, it would put them at a competitive disadvantage. Obviously the direct disadvantage of having a (even slightly) lesser QB, but also less money to use on other players. You can't just think of it as $5 mil to sign a back-up either, it can be the difference between being able to pay someone $15 mil or lose them and have to settle for a lesser player at $10 mil. Call it Mahomes and Andrews vs. Lamar and Njoku, or Allen and Andrews vs. Lamar and Knox. Doesn't have to be a TE obviously or even an offensive player, it applies to any position- paying a ton of money to one player means you have less you can pay to others, which is why it's such a big advantage to have a good QB on a rookie contract. Once you have to pay them a ton, it makes it a lot harder to stay on top. You can see it in the Chiefs, they have to make a lot of difficult decisions like letting Tyreek go now that the big numbers are hitting for Mahomes.

It's not as simple as "he's really good, give him whatever he wants". If this was baseball, I'd say hand him the blank check.

MVP voting isn’t about fantasy numbers and his start has him in top 3 discussion for that. There’s no shame in losing a close game to the Bills (possibly the best team in football) and he didn’t play much worse than stud Josh Allen did in that game or Mahomes did week 3. Qbs have bad games sometimes and can still be studs.

And again, what’s the alternative? You can have 3 Mark Andrews against Mahomes and it won’t matter if your qb is Mitchell Trubisky or Daniel Jones. Franchise qbs in their primes simply aren’t given up. The only one who was is Watson and there was lots of off the field reasons for that. Much easier to try to make up that hypothetical 5 million by drafting or signing a tiny bit better than your competition than it is to find a franchise qb.

They've played 4 games so there's no MVP voting going on, but again, let's use your (IMO flawed) logic- he currently has the 3rd best odds for MVP behind Allen and Mahomes, so let's go ahead and give him a similar contract to them and call it a day.

There's no shame in losing a close game to the Bills (and I would argue there's no bragging for beating up on Joe Flacco and the Jets), but you said it yourself, he was at least slightly outplayed by Allen. You can't pay him far more than guys like Allen and Mahomes while getting less production and expect to be able to beat them. It doesn't mean it isn't possible, but it would certainly make it more difficult. If they pay him similar or slightly less, then it's much easier to make it up at other positions.

This isn't a conversation about whether he's a stud, he is. It's a conversation around whether the Ravens should pay him significantly more guaranteed money than those 2 other studs who almost everyone agrees are at least a little better than he is. If they do, they are putting themselves at a significant comparative disadvantage to those teams.

The alternative is that he comes to his senses and realizes Baltimore is the best place for him and he signs a deal comparable with the actual market, not the looney tunes Cleveland Browns market. If he insists on setting new $ records, then trade him. If people think he's worth more $ than Watson with all his baggage then that should apply to his trade value as well, right? The Texans got 3 #1's (this one was #13 overall), a 3rd rounder and 2 4th rounders for Watson and a 6th. Heck, Lamar should at least add another first to that right, maybe even 2 more?

The drafting and signing a tiny bit better than your competition is moot, you always try to do that regardless. Due to the massive size of the contract we're talking about, it seems a heck of a lot easier to try and convince someone to take $45 mil instead of $50 than it is to convince someone to take $5 mil instead of $10.

Again, my preference is for him to sign a huge deal for more money than he'll ever need that is somewhere in line with what Mahomes and Allen signed for. However, if he sticks to his guns and demands way more than that, I don't see how they can give it to him and expect to have any realistic chance at putting a Super Bowl caliber team around him. Anyway, seems best to just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Faust]

Lamar Jackson completed 19-of-32 passes for 174 yards, one touchdown, and one interception in Baltimore's 19-17, Week 5 win over the Bengals, adding 12 carries for 58 yards.​

31 of those rushing yards came on Baltimore's final drive, leading to a go-ahead field goal. Jackson missed a couple of long touchdown passes in the third quarter when he overshot Devin Duvernay in the end zone by about a step, then took a fourth-and-3 deep shot to a completely uncovered Tylan Wallace that sailed wide of the target by 10 yards. He was, in fairness, drifting and under a bit of pressure on the latter throw. Jackson and Mark Andrews hooked up on some incredible throws, but his timing with his non-Andrews and Duvernay targets continues to look wonky. Jackson will be a QB1 against the plucky Giants in Week 6.
Oct 9, 2022, 11:20 PM ET

 

[cudjoekey10]

Typical Lamar last night. Made some great throws and runs and made some terrible throws and bad decisions.

Not sure what I do if I'm the Ravens, I think Lamar is a top ten QB but I'm not sure he's good enough to get them over the hump. And if Denver gave up 3 1's and 2's for an old'ish Wilson, how much would Lamar be worth in a trade?

 

[Da Guru]

Justin Tucker is the MVP of the Ravens.

Just heard an unreal stat. Tucker has made 61 straight FGs in the 4th quarter and OT. Many were over 50 yards. That is almost impossible to do it practice.

When the Raven get the ball late losing by 2 or tied late in the game they only have to get to the opponents 40 for a legit chance to win. What a weapon.

 

[Guss]

Lamar is never going to win anything. Come playoff time teams with good defense know how to play him
Why do you think he has an awful playoff record. In the playoffs teams will exploit his weaknesses

Ravens should trade him, take the haul and rebuild. This team is not going to win anything, they will be good but not win

 

[Cobbler1]

Lamar is never going to win anything. Come playoff time teams with good defense know how to play him
Why do you think he has an awful playoff record. In the playoffs teams will exploit his weaknesses

Ravens should trade him, take the haul and rebuild. This team is not going to win anything, they will be good but not win

Lol. Awful playoff record. There’s a lot of context there that I imagine you’re clueless about. You think good teams aren’t trying to attack his weaknesses during the regular season too? If anything cold weather may be his weakness. He looked pretty miserable during the Bills playoff loss. I’d think that would be more a factor than anything- of course it’d have to fleshed out over a much larger sample size.

 

[The Frankman]

Lamar Jackson completed 17-of-32 passes for 210 yards, one touchdown and one interception in the Ravens' 24-20, Week 6 loss to the Giants, adding 10 carries for 77 additional yards.​

The Ravens continue to struggle late in games, and Sunday's loss to the Giants was no exception. Jackson was responsible for two turnovers on the Ravens' final two drives, tossing a late interception to safety Julian Love to set the Giants up for a go-ahead touchdown. On the ensuing drive, Jackson would be sacked and stripped by rookie Kayvon Thibodeaux, allowing the Giants to secure their fifth win of the season following the fumble recovery. Jackson displayed good rushing upside on the ground with his 77 yards on the day and connected with tight end Mark Andrews on several big throws -- including a 12-yard touchdown early in the fourth quarter. Jackson and the Ravens need to find a way to close out games and will look to rebound in Week 7 against the Browns. As usual, Jackson can be treated as a high-end QB1.
- NBCSportsEDGE

 

[Ghost Rider]

Lamar is never going to win anything. Come playoff time teams with good defense know how to play him
Why do you think he has an awful playoff record. In the playoffs teams will exploit his weaknesses

Ravens should trade him, take the haul and rebuild. This team is not going to win anything, they will be good but not win

Lol. Awful playoff record. There’s a lot of context there that I imagine you’re clueless about. You think good teams aren’t trying to attack his weaknesses during the regular season too? If anything cold weather may be his weakness. He looked pretty miserable during the Bills playoff loss. I’d think that would be more a factor than anything- of course it’d have to fleshed out over a much larger sample size.

1-3 is an awful playoff record so far, and it is hard to get a larger sample size when he keeps not winning playoff games.

That said, he is a very good QB overall, but the concerns are there. 19 interceptions now in 18 games dating back to the start of last season would be a concern, if I were a part of the Ravens organization. His W/L record is hard to ignore (40-15), but Jimmy G (who is obviously not as good as Lamar) is 35-16 as a starter, so W/L record, which is not really a QB stat, isn't the end-all be-all some think it is.

 

[Cobbler1]

Lamar is never going to win anything. Come playoff time teams with good defense know how to play him
Why do you think he has an awful playoff record. In the playoffs teams will exploit his weaknesses

Ravens should trade him, take the haul and rebuild. This team is not going to win anything, they will be good but not win

Lol. Awful playoff record. There’s a lot of context there that I imagine you’re clueless about. You think good teams aren’t trying to attack his weaknesses during the regular season too? If anything cold weather may be his weakness. He looked pretty miserable during the Bills playoff loss. I’d think that would be more a factor than anything- of course it’d have to fleshed out over a much larger sample size.

1-3 is an awful playoff record so far, and it is hard to get a larger sample size when he keeps not winning playoff games.

That said, he is a very good QB overall, but the concerns are there. 19 interceptions now in 18 games dating back to the start of last season would be a concern, if I were a part of the Ravens organization. His W/L record is hard to ignore (40-15), but Jimmy G (who is obviously not as good as Lamar) is 35-16 as a starter, so W/L record, which is not really a QB stat, isn't the end-all be-all some think it is.

Horrific INT today played a huge role in costing the Ravens the game. If he does stuff like that all year then his price tag goes down. But you still pay him IMO.

The playoff context is that his 2018 game was in a year he wasn’t even supposed to start. Then he was the youngest qb to ever start a playoff game in that game. Most of the top QBs weren’t even in the league yet at the age he was starting a playoff game. If you want to hold it against him for getting there ahead of his time then ok but I think it’s a bit unfair.

2019 Lamar and the whole team choked. The defense missed tackles, the OL got whooped up front by Simmons and Casey, the pass catchers dropped like 6 balls, and Lamar wasn’t good. Then he won in Tenn and played in and lost in terrible conditions in Buffalo. Conditions that Josh Allen struggled in too. It’s just a realllllly small sample to label someone as a bad playoff player with all the variables that go into football.

 

[humpback]

How can anyone watch these games and even try to make the argument that he deserves to be paid more than Allen and Mahomes?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Lamar is never going to win anything. Come playoff time teams with good defense know how to play him
Why do you think he has an awful playoff record. In the playoffs teams will exploit his weaknesses

Ravens should trade him, take the haul and rebuild. This team is not going to win anything, they will be good but not win

Lol. Awful playoff record. There’s a lot of context there that I imagine you’re clueless about. You think good teams aren’t trying to attack his weaknesses during the regular season too? If anything cold weather may be his weakness. He looked pretty miserable during the Bills playoff loss. I’d think that would be more a factor than anything- of course it’d have to fleshed out over a much larger sample size.

1-3 is an awful playoff record so far, and it is hard to get a larger sample size when he keeps not winning playoff games.

That said, he is a very good QB overall, but the concerns are there. 19 interceptions now in 18 games dating back to the start of last season would be a concern, if I were a part of the Ravens organization. His W/L record is hard to ignore (40-15), but Jimmy G (who is obviously not as good as Lamar) is 35-16 as a starter, so W/L record, which is not really a QB stat, isn't the end-all be-all some think it is.

Horrific INT today played a huge role in costing the Ravens the game. If he does stuff like that all year then his price tag goes down. But you still pay him IMO.

The playoff context is that his 2018 game was in a year he wasn’t even supposed to start. Then he was the youngest qb to ever start a playoff game in that game. Most of the top QBs weren’t even in the league yet at the age he was starting a playoff game. If you want to hold it against him for getting there ahead of his time then ok but I think it’s a bit unfair.

2019 Lamar and the whole team choked. The defense missed tackles, the OL got whooped up front by Simmons and Casey, the pass catchers dropped like 6 balls, and Lamar wasn’t good. Then he won in Tenn and played in and lost in terrible conditions in Buffalo. Conditions that Josh Allen struggled in too. It’s just a realllllly small sample to label someone as a bad playoff player with all the variables that go into football.

Points well taken, but unless you're Tom Brady and play in 399 playoff games, it is always going to be a pretty small sample size when assessing playoff performance.

To be clear, I think the Ravens should pay him as long as the price is right. They'd be crazy to give him guaranteed money or money like Mahomes or Allen got, but that's just me. How this season plays out will be big for both Jackson and Harbaugh. I don't think Harbaugh can survive missing the playoffs again, not after having so many close games not go their way this year and last due to many 4th down attempts that failed and lost them the game, but that could actually work in Lamar's favor as I doubt they'd wanna start from scratch at both QB and coach.

 

[crushedspirit]

How can anyone watch these games and even try to make the argument that he deserves to be paid more than Allen and Mahomes?

Sometimes people see what they want, no matter what the reality is.

He is a good dual threat QB, but not even in the same area code as Allen or Mahomes when it comes to the overall position. I would take Burrow and Herbert over him as well, but that's my own opinion, and nobody has to agree.

As a Steeler fan I wish they duplicate the error of the past and back up the brinks truck to Lamar's house.

 

[humpback]

Horrific INT today played a huge role in costing the Ravens the game. If he does stuff like that all year then his price tag goes down. But you still pay him IMO.

The playoff context is that his 2018 game was in a year he wasn’t even supposed to start. Then he was the youngest qb to ever start a playoff game in that game. Most of the top QBs weren’t even in the league yet at the age he was starting a playoff game. If you want to hold it against him for getting there ahead of his time then ok but I think it’s a bit unfair.

2019 Lamar and the whole team choked. The defense missed tackles, the OL got whooped up front by Simmons and Casey, the pass catchers dropped like 6 balls, and Lamar wasn’t good. Then he won in Tenn and played in and lost in terrible conditions in Buffalo. Conditions that Josh Allen struggled in too. It’s just a realllllly small sample to label someone as a bad playoff player with all the variables that go into football.

Oh come on. If he does stuff like that all year the price tag would plummet, he sucked out loud.

And whose price tag are you referring to? IMO the "market" is about what the Ravens are reportedly offering him and anyone who thinks he should set new records is delusional.

I don't think anyone is closing the book on his playoff experience, however there's no denying that he's been bad so far. It is what it is, and yes, it factors into the contract, at least a little.

Here's the argument in a nutshell- would you rather be like the Bills and the Chiefs or the Browns, Broncos and Cardinals? That's the question Lamar (and his mom) needs to answer, and if it's the latter then deal him away to a terrible organization like those.

 

[Faust]

Is Lamar Jackson trying to do too much to fix Ravens' late-game woes?

 

[Cobbler1]

Horrific INT today played a huge role in costing the Ravens the game. If he does stuff like that all year then his price tag goes down. But you still pay him IMO.

The playoff context is that his 2018 game was in a year he wasn’t even supposed to start. Then he was the youngest qb to ever start a playoff game in that game. Most of the top QBs weren’t even in the league yet at the age he was starting a playoff game. If you want to hold it against him for getting there ahead of his time then ok but I think it’s a bit unfair.

2019 Lamar and the whole team choked. The defense missed tackles, the OL got whooped up front by Simmons and Casey, the pass catchers dropped like 6 balls, and Lamar wasn’t good. Then he won in Tenn and played in and lost in terrible conditions in Buffalo. Conditions that Josh Allen struggled in too. It’s just a realllllly small sample to label someone as a bad playoff player with all the variables that go into football.

Oh come on. If he does stuff like that all year the price tag would plummet, he sucked out loud.

And whose price tag are you referring to? IMO the "market" is about what the Ravens are reportedly offering him and anyone who thinks he should set new records is delusional.

I don't think anyone is closing the book on his playoff experience, however there's no denying that he's been bad so far. It is what it is, and yes, it factors into the contract, at least a little.

Here's the argument in a nutshell- would you rather be like the Bills and the Chiefs or the Browns, Broncos and Cardinals? That's the question Lamar (and his mom) needs to answer, and if it's the latter then deal him away to a terrible organization like those.

It’s clearly not as simple as that. You could also be the Bears Commanders Texans etc with no qb and no clear future. That behind said a discussion with you on this we both know isn’t going to go anywhere so I’m not going to engage further. Have a good one.

 

[humpback]

Horrific INT today played a huge role in costing the Ravens the game. If he does stuff like that all year then his price tag goes down. But you still pay him IMO.

The playoff context is that his 2018 game was in a year he wasn’t even supposed to start. Then he was the youngest qb to ever start a playoff game in that game. Most of the top QBs weren’t even in the league yet at the age he was starting a playoff game. If you want to hold it against him for getting there ahead of his time then ok but I think it’s a bit unfair.

2019 Lamar and the whole team choked. The defense missed tackles, the OL got whooped up front by Simmons and Casey, the pass catchers dropped like 6 balls, and Lamar wasn’t good. Then he won in Tenn and played in and lost in terrible conditions in Buffalo. Conditions that Josh Allen struggled in too. It’s just a realllllly small sample to label someone as a bad playoff player with all the variables that go into football.

Oh come on. If he does stuff like that all year the price tag would plummet, he sucked out loud.

And whose price tag are you referring to? IMO the "market" is about what the Ravens are reportedly offering him and anyone who thinks he should set new records is delusional.

I don't think anyone is closing the book on his playoff experience, however there's no denying that he's been bad so far. It is what it is, and yes, it factors into the contract, at least a little.

Here's the argument in a nutshell- would you rather be like the Bills and the Chiefs or the Browns, Broncos and Cardinals? That's the question Lamar (and his mom) needs to answer, and if it's the latter then deal him away to a terrible organization like those.

It’s clearly not as simple as that. You could also be the Bears Commanders Texans etc with no qb and no clear future. That behind said a discussion with you on this we both know isn’t going to go anywhere so I’m not going to engage further. Have a good one.

In a nutshell implies that it's oversimplified, however you aren't reading it correctly- this is from Lamar's perspective, not the Ravens. His contract demands are going to have a direct impact on their chances to compete in the future. Does he want to accept a very, very good deal and have a chance to be like the Bills and Chiefs, or does he want a record breaking deal and end up like the Browns, Broncos and Cardinals? The Ravens are much better than those organizations so I don't believe they'll cave if he sticks to his guns, they'll choose to deal him away to a terrible organization like the Bears or Commanders and he can wallow in mediocrity there. The Texans at least are doing it the right way and have a much better chance at turning things around with all of their draft picks. Of course, their front office isn't as strong as the Ravens so it may not work out, but at least they have a chance. Those other teams look to be stuck in no man's land for the foreseeable future.

The Ravens have won Super Bowls with Joe Flacco and Trent Dilfer at QB. They know that it isn't going to happen with a vastly overpaid Lamar Jackson.

 

[Dizzy]

How can anyone watch these games and even try to make the argument that he deserves to be paid more than Allen and Mahomes?

Those calls get quieter with every passing week. Every game that Lamar turns it over in Q4 and they lose double-digit leads is $$$ coming out of his potential offer. And even though he says "not" that pressure is going to weigh heavier on him with each passing week as well. It may be happening already and impacting his play.

 

[The Frankman]

Lamar Jackson completed 9-of-16 pass attempts for 120 yards in the Ravens' Week 7 23-20 win against the Browns, adding ten rushes for 59 yards.​

Jackson had his fourth straight down game as Baltimore fully committed to an offense centered on Gus Edwards -- active for the first time this season -- and the team's running game. Sacked thrice, Jackson rarely had time to operate in the pocket, often making miraculous plays to escape pressure and gain a few yards on the ground.
- NBCSportsEDGE

 

[Faust]

Lamar Jackson completed 27-of-38 passes for 238 yards and two touchdowns in the Ravens' 27-22, Week 8 win over the Bucs, adding nine carries for 43 additional yards.​

It was the tale of two halves for Jackson, who was an abysmal 19-of-30 for 144 scoreless yards as the Ravens employed a pass-heavy attack for quarters one and two. Then, Mark Andrews and Rashod Bateman both left the game with injury and Jackson went 8-of-8 for 94 yards and both his touchdowns after the break. His passing was far more effective as the Ravens road graded the Bucs on the ground. His scores both came inside the 10-yard line, with the first to Kenyan Drake and second to Isaiah Likely. Jackson also lost a long second half run to a (justified) holding call. Although he somehow hasn't found the end zone on the ground since Week 3, Jackson's running continues to prop up his shaky pass production. Week 9 against the Saints could be a difficult test with Andrews (shoulder) and Bateman (foot) both in danger of being held out in advance of Baltimore's Week 10 bye.
Oct 27, 2022, 11:29 PM ET

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Lamar sending message to Ravens

 

[Bracie Smathers]

source inside the Ravens locker room told me is happening in Baltimore right now

 

[humpback]

IF there's any truth to those rumors, he pretty much wrote his ticket out of town. And, IF true, good riddance.

 

[TampaMike19]

Quiet quitting is a 2022 necessity.

 

[massraider]

On pace for 3500 yds passing, 32 TDs, 1200 yds rushing, 5 TDs. I hope Derek Carr quiet quits like this the rest of the year.

If he only runs for 1,000 yards instead of 1200, will we get another video from Skip Bayless with lots of painful, serious pauses, as he breaks the news that PAINS him to share? I hope so.

 

[Faust]

Lamar Jackson completed just 12-of-22 passes for 133 yards and one touchdown in the Ravens' 27-13, Week 9 win over the Saints Monday night, adding 82 yards on 11 carries.​

Jackson got the scoring started with a first-quarter, 24-yard touchdown pass to rookie TE Isaiah Likely and went into halftime with over 100 passing yards and the score. He looked on his way to a big night, but Jackson missed two easy would-be touchdowns on back-to-back throws in the third quarter after overshooting Demarcus Robinson in the end zone earlier in the game. Jackson was missing Mark Andrews (shoulder, knee) and Rashod Bateman (foot, I.R.), so he was throwing to a room full of JAG wideouts. The Ravens get a much-needed bye to rest up and get healthy ahead of Week 11 against the Panthers. Jackson's ceiling games haven't been there of late, but he's still an obvious QB1.
Nov 7, 2022, 11:18 PM ET

 

[Faust]

Ravens coach John Harbaugh said Lamar Jackson (illness) will start in Week 11 against the Panthers.​

Jackson practiced in full on both Wednesday and Thursday, so it was a bit of a startling revelation that he'd miss practice today. He may be questionable on the report later today in deference to the illness, but it seems he's in no real danger of missing a start. If that narrative changes this weekend, Tyler Huntley would be in line to see snaps.
SOURCE: Jamison Hensley on Twitter
Nov 18, 2022, 1:30 PM ET

 

[Runkle]

Apparently was out due to second child being born

 

[Faust]

Lamar Jackson completed 24-of-33 pass attempts for 209 yards and an interception in the Ravens' 13-3 Week 11 win against the Panthers, adding 11 rushes for 30 yards and a touchdown.​

Jackson and the Ravens offense looked like they were matched up against the 1985 Chicago Bears defense, struggling to get anything going through the air or on the ground against a middling Carolina defense. Baltimore's offense has no downfield threat with Rashod Bateman (foot) sidelined, allowing defenses to focus on Mark Andrews and shut down the passing attack.
Nov 20, 2022, 4:18 PM ET

 

[Judge Smails]

Apparently was out due to second child being born

Interesting. Sure played like he was sick

 

[spacepimp]

Is he closer to a strong QB2 than a consistent QB1 now?

 

[rockaction]

Is he closer to a strong QB2 than a consistent QB1 now?

He's still QB5 overall in six point TD leagues, so he's even more valuable in 4 pt. leagues. I'd say he's still an easy QB1, though it's not pretty to watch these days.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Outside the top 15 since week 4

 

[Faust]

Ravens coach John Harbaugh said Lamar Jackson is dealing with an "issue" but will play in Week 12 against the Jaguars.​

Jackson missed practice last Friday with an illness but played through it on Sunday, though this seems to be a new ailment for the star quarterback. Jackson was also spotted getting checked out by trainers on the sidelines versus Carolina. He didn't miss any snaps. Jackson will have his practice reps limited throughout the week, but Harbaugh was unphased by the "issue" on Wednesday. Jackson drafters can count on him as a QB1 for Week 12.
Nov 23, 2022, 4:02 PM ET