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QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (2 Viewers)

It should be far off the Watson deal. That deal was both insane and stupid. It was insupid! The Ravens would be insane and stupid to match that. If Lamar insists on that deal he should expect to be franchised and hope the Ravens find an different owner to make an insane and stupid offer.
Yes, yes, YESSSSSSSSS. Trade him.
Everyone knows league MVPs grow on trees.
Keeping him would be ideal for the Ravens but not on a Watson deal. If Lamar refuses to compromise and accept only :rolleyes: 150 million guaranteed then, yes trading him is the smarter move. If they can get multiple first round picks from a team like the Colts, Saints, Panthers or Falcons? Yeah, they should do that.

If they can get him to accept a Murray type deal then they should keep him.
$150M guaranteed is chump change now for elite QB’s
Whatever, he hasn't earned a Watson deal from Baltimore. Take the Murray money and be thrilled you got it, otherwise play franchise tag roulette. It's still, what, $40+ mil per year?
 

Lamar Jackson (knee) did not practice Wednesday.​

Jackson did not practice on Tuesday either, all but guaranteeing his absence in Week 16. He will eye a Week 17 return versus the Steelers. Tyler Huntley will make his third start of the year this week. Facing the Falcons, expect Baltimore to opt for a run-heavy approach, featuring both J.K. Dobbins and Gus Edwards. Huntley should be viewed as a low-end QB2 for Week 16.
SOURCE: Jonas Shaffer on Twitter
Dec 21, 2022, 2:19 PM ET
 

Ravens head coach John Harbaugh said, "we'll just have to see" when asked about whether or not Lamar Jackson (knee) will practice this week.​

Harbaugh has opened each of the last two weeks with vague answers on Jackson's status. Originally expected to miss 1-3 weeks with a sprained PCL, Jackson has now missed three-straight games with his injury and is no lock to play in Week 17 against the Steelers. Baltimore can improve it's seeding in the NFL postseason, but secured its spot in the playoffs with last week's win over the Falcons. The Ravens will only go as far as Jackson can carry them, so sidelining him until the postseason could be in the team's best interest.
RELATED:
Dec 26, 2022, 2:39 PM ET
 
wont matter if he plays or not how many playoff games has this overhyped qb won? zero? one?
you simply cant win with Lamar Jackson and Harbaugh knows this.
 

Ravens head coach John Harbaugh said "I don't know" when asked about whether or not Lamar Jackson (knee) would practice this week.​

There's a good chance this is becoming Harbaugh's least-favorite question, as he's now been grilled about Jackson's status for the better part of a month. Jackson has now missed four straight games with a sprained PCL and could be in line to miss Week 18 against the Bengals. It's possible the Bengals and Bills we face off next week to decide the winner of the AFC North. If a division championship is on the line, Jackson's chances of playing could be better. However, if the Bengals have the division secured after Week 17, Jackson may rest up one more week before the playoffs.
Jan 2, 2023, 2:44 PM ET
 

Lamar Jackson (knee) did not practice Wednesday.​

This is the 13th straight practice Jackson has missed. Ravens head coach John Harbaugh was unsure on Monday if Jackson would practice this week. All signs point to him missing the Ravens' Week 18 finale versus the Bengals. With the Bengals' postponed Week 17 matchup with Buffalo still in the air, the fate of the AFC North isn't exactly clear. However, the Ravens already have a playoff spot locked up, so it might make sense for them to rest Jackson another week and live with the seeding consequences of a likely loss to the Bengals on Sunday.
SOURCE: Jonas Shaffer on Twitter
Jan 4, 2023, 2:14 PM ET
 
Lamar has nothing to prove. Bateman hurt. Andrews hurt. RB's were hurt. O-Line decimated and was not their usual dominant self early in the season. The league has seen what he can do and with weapons he can beat any team, including those with Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts etc. It is a business and I get it. There is risk signing running QBs to long term deals after their rookie contract. It will happen with Hurts. It will happen with Fields. So Lamar is going to have to accept some sort of discount based on that - or do a shorter term deal and try to get paid again. But it shouldn't be far off of Watson/Murray.

Herbert and Lawrence are the next two prototypical pocket QBs who will break the bank
It should be far off the Watson deal. That deal was both insane and stupid. It was insupid! The Ravens would be insane and stupid to match that. If Lamar insists on that deal he should expect to be franchised and hope the Ravens find an different owner to make an insane and stupid offer.

I agree, after the stupid Watson deal there should be a market correction.

Jackson is a good QB, but his style as we have seen the last few years leads to injury. I would take Hurts over Jackson and right now Hurts is hurt from running.
 
Lamar has nothing to prove. Bateman hurt. Andrews hurt. RB's were hurt. O-Line decimated and was not their usual dominant self early in the season. The league has seen what he can do and with weapons he can beat any team, including those with Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts etc. It is a business and I get it. There is risk signing running QBs to long term deals after their rookie contract. It will happen with Hurts. It will happen with Fields. So Lamar is going to have to accept some sort of discount based on that - or do a shorter term deal and try to get paid again. But it shouldn't be far off of Watson/Murray.

Herbert and Lawrence are the next two prototypical pocket QBs who will break the bank
It should be far off the Watson deal. That deal was both insane and stupid. It was insupid! The Ravens would be insane and stupid to match that. If Lamar insists on that deal he should expect to be franchised and hope the Ravens find an different owner to make an insane and stupid offer.

I agree, after the stupid Watson deal there should be a market correction.

Jackson is a good QB, but his style as we have seen the last few years leads to injury. I would take Hurts over Jackson and right now Hurts is hurt from running.
Is it his style that led to the injuries, though?
 
Lamar has nothing to prove. Bateman hurt. Andrews hurt. RB's were hurt. O-Line decimated and was not their usual dominant self early in the season. The league has seen what he can do and with weapons he can beat any team, including those with Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Hurts etc. It is a business and I get it. There is risk signing running QBs to long term deals after their rookie contract. It will happen with Hurts. It will happen with Fields. So Lamar is going to have to accept some sort of discount based on that - or do a shorter term deal and try to get paid again. But it shouldn't be far off of Watson/Murray.

Herbert and Lawrence are the next two prototypical pocket QBs who will break the bank
It should be far off the Watson deal. That deal was both insane and stupid. It was insupid! The Ravens would be insane and stupid to match that. If Lamar insists on that deal he should expect to be franchised and hope the Ravens find an different owner to make an insane and stupid offer.

I agree, after the stupid Watson deal there should be a market correction.

Jackson is a good QB, but his style as we have seen the last few years leads to injury. I would take Hurts over Jackson and right now Hurts is hurt from running.
Is it his style that led to the injuries, though?
Holding onto the ball too long is also a style.
 
They can’t win without him that’s for sure
While this is true if I were the Ravens I would be planning to move on from LaMar. Franchise him next year if you feel you must but his playing style makes him a good candidate to miss multiple games every season.

Jackson is exciting to watch no doubt, but does that excitement translate to being a top 5 QB?

  • – Jackson’s Pro Football Focus passing grade in 2021 fell for the 2nd straight year. His adjusted completion rate was down again, and his total QBR ranked just 17th in the league. That measure includes a QB’s rushing contributions.
 
Ah, so THIS is why teams don't let franchise QBs play into final year of their contract (this assumes that BAL views him as a franchise QB).

Lamar Jackson would be crazy to step onto the field again without a new deal. And if I were his agent - which he does not have - I would advise him NOT to show up under a franchise tag either.
 
-31 teams will be happy to speak with Lamar Jackson if things are not working out in Baltimore
-OK, maybe not 31 but teams like say, The Miami Dolphins will be happy to speak with Lamar Jackson and work on a contract

-Next, Jackson should have signed an extension after Year 3, not sure what he wanted vs what the Ravens wanted but something like a 4 yr/$120M+++, you can take the number up to whatever, $140M was a more likely number, $35M a year...but instead Jackson played out his rookie contract and then played under the 5th year option...teams can extend after YEAR 3 and players can put signing bonuses in their bank accounts immediately even though they must PLAY OUT YEAR 4 of THEIR ROOKIE DEALS
-However Year 5 which Jackson is playing out now under a team 5th year option is $23M vs he likely would have got a fat signing bonus and something like $35M++ this season, add in the signing bonus minus his salary this year and I find Jackson to be in the hole upwards of like $30M-$50M, it's scary how much he is pissing away and when you add in years of compound interest he could be earning on his investments, the guy needs some real financial planners. He and his mother/family are super comfy on $23M vs what was likely a family income of about $23K when he was growing up in the poor sections of South Florida $23,000,000.00 vs $23,000...I doubt they are looking at things the same way we do.

That's some of the money angles but now there is the talk of "moving on" from Lamar Jackson
Yes @Godsbrother Mr Steelers, i bet you do want them to move on from Lamar, who wants to see him for another 4-5 years in the division? :lol:

I don't think Baltimore can afford not to keep him but they stink at surrounding him with good WRs, sure he has Andrews at TE, Likely looks like he might be a great TE2 option and perhaps run the old Patriots offense 2-TE sets.

-One more thing, the Ravens at worst, franchise tag him and then find a trade partner that immediately will work out a contract to Lamar Jackson's liking. I can name 5-10 teams that would easily part with multiple 1st round picks for him. Yes, you need a decent back up QB that can come in and run things from time to time but I still feel like Lamar has to do far too much of the heavy lifting in Baltimore but that's me. Where is the Jamal Lewis on this team?

He ain't going nowhere except thru a major trade that would have to set up the Ravens to immediately draft a potential franchise QB, don't see that happening right now.
 
I am a huge Lamar fan, but it seems clear to me his time in Baltimore is over

He's not playing again this year - and I don't blame him. Doesn't want to come back too soon from a knee and ruin his career like RGIII, particularly when he's this close to the $45M franchise tag payday. If he goes out there this week and blows an ACL, no way the Ravens are signing him to a franchise tag knowing he's going to miss 80% or more of 2023. They made their best offer, he said no, and I doubt the Ravens would offer him as much now as they did earlier. It's going to be a Tag and Trade.

The worst part is, Lamar has been pretty bad lately. He's finished 10 of the Ravens last 22 games.

Since Week 4 this season, among 32 QBs with 200+ pass attempts, Lamar’s 80.7 passer rating is #29 (between Mayfield and Davis Mills). Only Mills, Kenny Pickett and Zach Wilson are lower.

Since the start of 2021, among QBs with 200 pass attempts, Lamar’s 88.9 rating is 24th, between Daniel Jones and Andy Dalton
 
The Baltimore Ravens have a record of 49-21 with Lamar Jackson since 2016.
That is .700 winning percentage

The Baltimore Ravens are 4-7 without Lamar Jackson since 2016.
That is a .364 winning percentage.

Don't talk about that insignificant stat, lets negatively editorialize about his 'style' of play, lol.
Your numbers aren't accurate, and I'm guessing you didn't include the post-season because it doesn't fit your narrative, but this is a completely disingenuous comparison. Almost every team is going to do far worse with their back-up QB than their starter for a variety of reasons.
Lamar Jackson would be crazy to step onto the field again without a new deal.
The Baltimore Ravens set Lamar Jackson up to fail and his body finally did
Utter nonsense. The Ravens were the ONLY team to draft him in the first round (trading up to do so as well) and completely mold their offense around his strengths and weaknesses. Not a single other NFL franchise was willing to do so, yet you keep trying to portray them as somehow sabotaging him, like they want him to fail.
 
I am a huge Lamar fan, but it seems clear to me his time in Baltimore is over

He's not playing again this year - and I don't blame him. Doesn't want to come back too soon from a knee and ruin his career like RGIII, particularly when he's this close to the $45M franchise tag payday. If he goes out there this week and blows an ACL, no way the Ravens are signing him to a franchise tag knowing he's going to miss 80% or more of 2023. They made their best offer, he said no, and I doubt the Ravens would offer him as much now as they did earlier. It's going to be a Tag and Trade.

The worst part is, Lamar has been pretty bad lately. He's finished 10 of the Ravens last 22 games.

Since Week 4 this season, among 32 QBs with 200+ pass attempts, Lamar’s 80.7 passer rating is #29 (between Mayfield and Davis Mills). Only Mills, Kenny Pickett and Zach Wilson are lower.

Since the start of 2021, among QBs with 200 pass attempts, Lamar’s 88.9 rating is 24th, between Daniel Jones and Andy Dalton

I'm a Lamar fan too, but his style of play is not sustainable - long term. Baltimore had a short window to try and win a Super Bowl with this "wishbone" type attack where your QB is also your best RB and - oh by the way - he might throw it once in a while. Now he's already showing the results of punishment that an NFL RB takes on and it could be over. The roster and offensive scheme are designed/built around Lamer being "Lamar" and without a 2nd Lamar to back him up it comes completely unraveled when he's not available.
 
That's some of the money angles but now there is the talk of "moving on" from Lamar Jackson
Yes @Godsbrother Mr Steelers, i bet you do want them to move on from Lamar, who wants to see him for another 4-5 years in the division? :lol:

Who, me???? :wink: The Steelers have actually done pretty well against Jackson (3-2) but I wouldn't at all be disappointed if the Ravens let him go and signed, say Baker Mayfield!
 
I am a huge Lamar fan, but it seems clear to me his time in Baltimore is over
It might be, did catch a comment last week from a Ravens beat writer that for the first time he was seeing signs that Harbaugh was frustrated with what that beat writer feels is Harbaugh realizing that Lamar is taking a " whats best for Lamar approach" on when he will return and not just going with Ravens team docs. Which I don't blame him one iota for taking this approach, not here to bash Lamar for doing what I'd recommend anyone I care about doing as well.

But reality is no matter if this injury ever happened or how well or bad Lamar played this year I still don't think they were going to agree on terms. Lamar see's zero reason he should not get a fully guaranteed contract like Watson and I don't think Biscitotti is remotely trying to budge on that, and especially not now that Lamar is showing big time durability issues.

I'm still going to refrain from saying he is clearly done as they can tag him as you indicated but if they do it's an enormous $45M cap hit that can't be spread out. Maybe Lamar will relent on the full guarantee, maybe seeing how the team can't win a game without Lamar will make Biscitotti change his tune. These things are all possible but if I had to bet on it I'd say they end up tagging and trading him.
 
Your numbers aren't accurate, and I'm guessing you didn't include the post-season because it doesn't fit your narrative
You just reminded me; the Ravens haven't come close to getting to the playoffs without Lamar.

Why is that?

Ravens scoring with Lamar Jackson since 2016 has been 1,019 overall points over 70 games which breaks down to:
27.4 Points per game

The Baltimore Ravens have scored 190 points over 11 games without Lamar Jackson since 2016, or.
17.3 points per game

Hmmm, I wonder why the Ravens haven't played in any post season games without Lamar.
 
What relevance do the Ravens’ 2016 and 2017 scoring totals have to this discussion, since Lamar was playing for Louisville during those seasons?
 
Look again.
11 GAMES without Lamar.
You think that I posted the wrong numbers, ok.

Did the Ravens not play ANY GAMES in 2016 and 2017?

And the numbers only show the number of games Lamar played.
Lamar Jackson career stats from NFL.com

Whoopsies.
Now do his playoff stats. Hey, I was born in Baltimore and love Lamar. Wish this could have worked out differently.
Get rid of him and roll with Huntley, that should turn out as well as it's been working.
 
Just my opinion, but I believe Lamar Jackson should have hired an agent. There’s a reason less than 1% of athletes represent themselves. I don’t believe that GMs and their “teams” care to negotiate with people who are not educated in the subtleties of contractual terms and conditions. It must slow down an already slow and tiring process.

Similar to the way a judge views a defendant that wants to represent themselves. They would rather deal with someone who is educated in law and how the judicial system works (i.e. lawyer-to-lawyer).

Also, his agent could have been working on this while Lamar was focusing on football.
 
Your numbers aren't accurate, and I'm guessing you didn't include the post-season because it doesn't fit your narrative
You just reminded me; the Ravens haven't come close to getting to the playoffs without Lamar.

Why is that?

Ravens scoring with Lamar Jackson since 2016 has been 1,019 overall points over 70 games which breaks down to:
27.4 Points per game

The Baltimore Ravens have scored 190 points over 11 games without Lamar Jackson since 2016, or.
17.3 points per game

Hmmm, I wonder why the Ravens haven't played in any post season games without Lamar.
Because he's their starting QB, and despite his recent fragility he's been the starter for the vast majority of that time. Most teams don't play in post season games with their back up- how did your Browns do with their back-up this year, despite having clear advantages over most back ups in the league?
Look again.
11 GAMES without Lamar.
You think that I posted the wrong numbers, ok.

Did the Ravens not play ANY GAMES in 2016 and 2017?

And the numbers only show the number of games Lamar played.
Lamar Jackson career stats from NFL.com

Whoopsies.
Yes, they played games in 2016 and 2017. They also played games from 2008-2014, but I'm guessing you didn't include them because it would show how much better Joe Flacco was in the post season vs. Lamar.

Your numbers include games that Lamar played in at all. So for instance the game vs. the Broncos, where Lamar threw for 11 yards in 3 possessions, took 2 sacks on his 4 attempts and got knocked out with the Ravens trailing but they came back to win with Huntley, Lamar gets "credit" for the win instead of the "without" column, where it belongs.

Whoopsies.
 
Because he's their starting QB, and despite his recent fragility
You're right.
Huntley is fragile a QB.
-------------------
Jonas Shaffer
@jonas_shaffer

We know a little more about the stakes of the Ravens’ Week 18 game. But we still don’t know whether Tyler Huntley will play in Cincinnati, which Bengals will play, how the teams will account for a possible rematch, etc.
------------------
Jamison Hensley
@jamisonhensley

With Lamar Jackson sidelined, Ravens QB Tyler Huntley has been limited all week with right shoulder and wrist injuries. OC Greg Roman: “He's been dealing with this thing for weeks. It's changed maybe the way we have had to play these games a little bit.”
 
Bunch of people who don't depend on the Ravens winning games to keep their jobs are ready to move on from a winning QB.
It may be Lamar's choice to move on. The question has always been what are the Ravens willing to pay and what Lamar is willing to accept.

By all accounts this off-season Lamar wanted nothing less than the Deshaun deal and the Ravens, wouldn't do that. Let's see where they are in February.

If Lamar still wants the Deshaun deal then the Ravens probably would be wise to start laying the framework to move on from a winning QB.
 
Because he's their starting QB, and despite his recent fragility
You're right.
Huntley is fragile a QB.
The question has never been about Lamar v Huntley.

Huntley is a backup caliber QB at best, and maybe only for this specific offense. He may not be in the NFL but for Lamar's offense.

It's also never been about Ws & Ls with and without Lamar. Teams perform worse with their backup QBs.
 
Bunch of people who don't depend on the Ravens winning games to keep their jobs are ready to move on from a winning QB.
It may be Lamar's choice to move on. The question has always been what are the Ravens willing to pay and what Lamar is willing to accept.

By all accounts this off-season Lamar wanted nothing less than the Deshaun deal and the Ravens, wouldn't do that. Let's see where they are in February.

If Lamar still wants the Deshaun deal then the Ravens probably would be wise to start laying the framework to move on from a winning QB.
If Lamar agreed to a Mahomes deal, you would change the mind of about 3% of the Move On From Lamar crowd.

I agree regarding a fully guaranteed deal, but that's not what this discussion has been about. The Ravens can franchise him for two years, THEY have no deadlines to worry about. Lamar has a deadline of next year, he might be playing in the first of two one year deals.

If Lamar had an agent, and that agent DIDN'T ask for a Watson deal, that agent would be an idiot. They have plenty of time to negotiate, why would the Ravens get rid of a winning QB now, when they can franchise him? It's not ideal, but it's a lot scarier for Lamar than BAL.
 
Bunch of people who don't depend on the Ravens winning games to keep their jobs are ready to move on from a winning QB.
It may be Lamar's choice to move on. The question has always been what are the Ravens willing to pay and what Lamar is willing to accept.

By all accounts this off-season Lamar wanted nothing less than the Deshaun deal and the Ravens, wouldn't do that. Let's see where they are in February.

If Lamar still wants the Deshaun deal then the Ravens probably would be wise to start laying the framework to move on from a winning QB.
If Lamar agreed to a Mahomes deal, you would change the mind of about 3% of the Move On From Lamar crowd.

I agree regarding a fully guaranteed deal, but that's not what this discussion has been about. The Ravens can franchise him for two years, THEY have no deadlines to worry about. Lamar has a deadline of next year, he might be playing in the first of two one year deals.

If Lamar had an agent, and that agent DIDN'T ask for a Watson deal, that agent would be an idiot. They have plenty of time to negotiate, why would the Ravens get rid of a winning QB now, when they can franchise him? It's not ideal, but it's a lot scarier for Lamar than BAL.
I absolutely see the Ravens using the franchise tag, twice if they have to, that's part of laying the framework for moving on from Lamar. But, as the saying goes I would prefer fight with volunteers over conscripts. Playing under the franchise tag feels like a lose-lose situation.

Lamar would be wise to modify his contract demands, if not as the long term answer for the Ravens then, at the very least, as a means to get the Ravens to allow him to start trade discussions with another team.
 
They have plenty of time to negotiate, why would the Ravens get rid of a winning QB now, when they can franchise him?
Perhaps because they realize they can't build much a football teams if Lamar is going to take up $100m in cap space over the next two years. Or that they holding back that $100M in addition to getting a draft pick haul for Lamar best positions them to win.
 
Because he's their starting QB, and despite his recent fragility
You're right.
Huntley is fragile a QB.
The question has never been about Lamar v Huntley.

Huntley is a backup caliber QB at best, and maybe only for this specific offense. He may not be in the NFL but for Lamar's offense.

It's also never been about Ws & Ls with and without Lamar. Teams perform worse with their backup QBs.
Exactly, it's a lame strawman that he keeps parroting.
 
Bunch of people who don't depend on the Ravens winning games to keep their jobs are ready to move on from a winning QB.
It may be Lamar's choice to move on. The question has always been what are the Ravens willing to pay and what Lamar is willing to accept.

By all accounts this off-season Lamar wanted nothing less than the Deshaun deal and the Ravens, wouldn't do that. Let's see where they are in February.

If Lamar still wants the Deshaun deal then the Ravens probably would be wise to start laying the framework to move on from a winning QB.
If Lamar agreed to a Mahomes deal, you would change the mind of about 3% of the Move On From Lamar crowd.

I agree regarding a fully guaranteed deal, but that's not what this discussion has been about. The Ravens can franchise him for two years, THEY have no deadlines to worry about. Lamar has a deadline of next year, he might be playing in the first of two one year deals.

If Lamar had an agent, and that agent DIDN'T ask for a Watson deal, that agent would be an idiot. They have plenty of time to negotiate, why would the Ravens get rid of a winning QB now, when they can franchise him? It's not ideal, but it's a lot scarier for Lamar than BAL.
Lamar has zero case to get a Mahomes type deal considering he's no where near as good. The fact that he wants far more guaranteed than him is laughable. However, a similarly structured deal just scaled down a bit is what most fans would like to see IMO.

A huge part of this discussion is about his demands of a fully guaranteed contract. It's very likely the reason why they couldn't come to terms. I think about 3% of fans are in the "Move On From Lamar" crowd- the vast majority want him to stay but it has to make sense for the team. His demands don't make sense for the team.

Franchising for 2 years is an option for the Ravens, but it's certainly not a good one- he'd take up a ton of cap space and he'd be unhappy. I think there's very little chance that happens.

Sure, the agent would have asked for a Watson deal, but as soon as they all had a good laugh they would have gotten back to reality. I firmly believe that the main reason he isn't signed to a longer term deal right now is because he doesn't have an agent who can talk some sense into him. The Watson deal is a 1-off deal from a terrible franchise that no one else is going to use as a comp, he and his mom are the only ones who won't admit that.

Again, franchising him for 2 straight years is not a good option for the Ravens. They would look to get rid of him now because he wouldn't count $45mil against their cap (that's next year, if they tagged him a 2nd time it would be ~$55mil). They'd almost certainly have to lose players like Roquan Smith if that's the case, plus a lot could go wrong if they wait. All in all I think it's unlikely that he plays next near under the tag and extremely unlikely he does so the next 2.
 
At this stage I feel like the Ravens are on target to franchise tag Lamar and have no appetite for negotiating a long term deal with this injury concern. I've heard some analysts mention that there have been cases where players were not the same after a PCL injury. They may feel like "show me you're fully healed" is the only option they have with Lamar given the potential size of this contract.
 
I am a dynasty investor, and I love Lamar's game. But I have a feeling that Lamar would have been playing in the last week or two if his contract wasn't up for debate. Which would make me not happy as a Ravens fan or teammate. Have to wonder if that question mark is in the minds of some of his teammates/coaches. In fact, judging from some of Harbaugh's non-answers in press, I think that question mark is in his mind and sticking in his craw.
 
I am a dynasty investor, and I love Lamar's game. But I have a feeling that Lamar would have been playing in the last week or two if his contract wasn't up for debate. Which would make me not happy as a Ravens fan or teammate. Have to wonder if that question mark is in the minds of some of his teammates/coaches. In fact, judging from some of Harbaugh's non-answers in press, I think that question mark is in his mind and sticking in his craw.
I bet the majority of teammates are behind Jackson and understand the business side very well.

The Ravens have to decide whether they want to give him a long term deal with roughly $200 guaranteed or not. If not they can kick the can down the road by franchising him in 2023 but they will be using up 20% of their cap space and likely have a disgruntled quarterback or they can just move on.

Frankly I think they work out a deal but Lamar needs to get back to work and perform well
 
Bunch of people who don't depend on the Ravens winning games to keep their jobs are ready to move on from a winning QB.
It may be Lamar's choice to move on. The question has always been what are the Ravens willing to pay and what Lamar is willing to accept.

By all accounts this off-season Lamar wanted nothing less than the Deshaun deal and the Ravens, wouldn't do that. Let's see where they are in February.

If Lamar still wants the Deshaun deal then the Ravens probably would be wise to start laying the framework to move on from a winning QB.
If Lamar agreed to a Mahomes deal, you would change the mind of about 3% of the Move On From Lamar crowd.

I agree regarding a fully guaranteed deal, but that's not what this discussion has been about. The Ravens can franchise him for two years, THEY have no deadlines to worry about. Lamar has a deadline of next year, he might be playing in the first of two one year deals.

If Lamar had an agent, and that agent DIDN'T ask for a Watson deal, that agent would be an idiot. They have plenty of time to negotiate, why would the Ravens get rid of a winning QB now, when they can franchise him? It's not ideal, but it's a lot scarier for Lamar than BAL.
Lamar has zero case to get a Mahomes type deal considering he's no where near as good. The fact that he wants far more guaranteed than him is laughable. However, a similarly structured deal just scaled down a bit is what most fans would like to see IMO.

A huge part of this discussion is about his demands of a fully guaranteed contract. It's very likely the reason why they couldn't come to terms. I think about 3% of fans are in the "Move On From Lamar" crowd- the vast majority want him to stay but it has to make sense for the team. His demands don't make sense for the team.

Franchising for 2 years is an option for the Ravens, but it's certainly not a good one- he'd take up a ton of cap space and he'd be unhappy. I think there's very little chance that happens.

Sure, the agent would have asked for a Watson deal, but as soon as they all had a good laugh they would have gotten back to reality. I firmly believe that the main reason he isn't signed to a longer term deal right now is because he doesn't have an agent who can talk some sense into him. The Watson deal is a 1-off deal from a terrible franchise that no one else is going to use as a comp, he and his mom are the only ones who won't admit that.

Again, franchising him for 2 straight years is not a good option for the Ravens. They would look to get rid of him now because he wouldn't count $45mil against their cap (that's next year, if they tagged him a 2nd time it would be ~$55mil). They'd almost certainly have to lose players like Roquan Smith if that's the case, plus a lot could go wrong if they wait. All in all I think it's unlikely that he plays next near under the tag and extremely unlikely he does so the next 2.
Two things:

1. I didn't say he deserved a Mahomes deal, I pulled that out of air to make the point that most people who think Ravens should move on just think the Ravens should move on.

2. Where is Lamar's quote about wanting Watson guarantees?
 
Bunch of people who don't depend on the Ravens winning games to keep their jobs are ready to move on from a winning QB.
It may be Lamar's choice to move on. The question has always been what are the Ravens willing to pay and what Lamar is willing to accept.

By all accounts this off-season Lamar wanted nothing less than the Deshaun deal and the Ravens, wouldn't do that. Let's see where they are in February.

If Lamar still wants the Deshaun deal then the Ravens probably would be wise to start laying the framework to move on from a winning QB.
If Lamar agreed to a Mahomes deal, you would change the mind of about 3% of the Move On From Lamar crowd.

I agree regarding a fully guaranteed deal, but that's not what this discussion has been about. The Ravens can franchise him for two years, THEY have no deadlines to worry about. Lamar has a deadline of next year, he might be playing in the first of two one year deals.

If Lamar had an agent, and that agent DIDN'T ask for a Watson deal, that agent would be an idiot. They have plenty of time to negotiate, why would the Ravens get rid of a winning QB now, when they can franchise him? It's not ideal, but it's a lot scarier for Lamar than BAL.

Sure, the agent would have asked for a Watson deal, but as soon as they all had a good laugh they would have gotten back to reality. I firmly believe that the main reason he isn't signed to a longer term deal right now is because he doesn't have an agent who can talk some sense into him. The Watson deal is a 1-off deal from a terrible franchise that no one else is going to use as a comp, he and his mom are the only ones who won't admit that.

I'm not sure this is true. Watson had multiple suitors, and he had a full no trade clause, so I'm sure they were all well aware of his contract demands while trying to deal for him. There seem to be plenty of teams desperate for franchise QB play that are more than willing to pay for it.

Who's to say Jackson can't get the exact same thing as he has far less baggage and arguably more NFL success.
 
2. Where is Lamar's quote about wanting Watson guarantees?
Players and teams rarely speak openly about contract offers.

What he have heard is Lamar turned down a 5 year extension, $250 mil contract with $130+ in guarantees.

Even that is not a 100% fact as it came from an unnamed source. Although the source was most likely authorized by the team to leak the information.

If that contract offer was real, and it probably was, then Lamar Jackson refused more guaranteed money than Russell Wilson & Kyler Murray received (their contracts were 7 years, Lamar's offer was a five extension, i.e. six total years at the time of the offer).

So if more than the Kyler & Wilson deals wasn't good enough, it is fair to speculate he is seeking a Watson deal.
 
So if more than the Kyler & Wilson deals wasn't good enough, it is fair to speculate he is seeking a Watson deal
Seems fair. Considering every new QB contract is better than the one before, seems reasonable to ask for the same.

I'm not sure it's equally reasonable to assume he will only take that deal, and the Ravens should move on, with two years of negotiating time in front of them, and an offence that is tailored to Lamar.
 
So if more than the Kyler & Wilson deals wasn't good enough, it is fair to speculate he is seeking a Watson deal
Seems fair. Considering every new QB contract is better than the one before, seems reasonable to ask for the same.

I'm not sure it's equally reasonable to assume he will only take that deal, and the Ravens should move on, with two years of negotiating time in front of them, and an offence that is tailored to Lamar.
Its difficult not to make the assumption he is holding out for, just a little better than the Watson deal. But you are correct, it is unfair to do so.

Lamar is facing 32 more games, plus playoffs, of betting on himself under the franchise tag before he can shoot for that monster deal. After the way the last two seasons ended, that seems like an eternity.

Hiring an agent wouldn't be a terrible idea at this point because, whatever his demands are, he needs to seriously evaluate the risk v rewards of holding the line, wherever it is.
 

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