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QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter massraider
- Start date
Yeah, that would definitely help right now. I'm getting bored of this situation and just want it resolved.
cdclopper
Footballguy
Well, I try my best to be just like I am,
But everybody wants you to be just like them.
- Bob Dylan
How can you not respect this man Lamar for choosing to represent himself, doing what he wants to do? I can't understand. It might even be stupid, I don't know. But I'm rooting for him anyway. Even tho he stiff-armed Tj Watt one time.
But everybody wants you to be just like them.
- Bob Dylan
How can you not respect this man Lamar for choosing to represent himself, doing what he wants to do? I can't understand. It might even be stupid, I don't know. But I'm rooting for him anyway. Even tho he stiff-armed Tj Watt one time.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
I'd respect him for it if he didn't suck at it. He should have had a new deal two years ago, or at the worse last year.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Pretty much this. Many of us DIY things which we’re not experts. But when DIY objectively costs you money and time, there comes a point where you get an expert involved.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Ya mean like......when it involves a quarter of a billion dollars?
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Yeah. Again, I think Lamar is getting a raw deal here, but he needs someone to tell him his game of chicken is gonna end a lot differently than Kirk Cousins simply bc he isn't getting the right advice, and the team he plays for is not the commanders or the Vikings. The Ravens know what they are doing and understand the tags and cap better than Lamar does. He also (it seems) only thinks of himself as a great QB (which he is) and not as an injury risk (which he also is). He may not need an "agent" (Depending on the terminology), but he definitely needs a "representative" to be able to hear the things he may not want to hear from the Ravens.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
End thread. In fact, end all message boards.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Because, apparently, he’s negotiating a quarter billion dollar contract with multiple teams on freaking TWITTER!
There’s an lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what have yous. There’s, uhhh, a lot in my head, man, a lot of strands in ol duder’s head, you know?
cdclopper
Footballguy
As he looks out his window to check if Dave across the street mowed his lawn yet. "Fkn dave, he hasn't mowed his lawn in 2 weeks. He needs to mow his lawn."
cdclopper
Footballguy
Say what you will, but the dude got his rug replaced and that's all he wanted in the first place.
So when your broke *** friend/kid goes shopping for a new car and is going to pay above MSRP you just say let the man do his thing and do weigh in?
WE care because we chose to root for teams that are constrained by a salary cap and over spending on a player means lesser talent elsewhere on the team.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Hes really raising his value eh
Interesting that if the NFL isn't lying, the NFLPA is more interested in protecting the agents than their player. Why should the NFLPA care who negotiates on behalf of one of their members if it helps their member.
cdclopper
Footballguy
Didn't realize you were so close to Lamar. Now I get it.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Pete Smith
@_PeteSmith_
It's also important to note the league has an incentive to make Lamar look foolish.
When the NFL comes out and points out some rando is calling teams to try to negotiate on your behalf, it's embarrassing. Amateur hour.
@_PeteSmith_
It's also important to note the league has an incentive to make Lamar look foolish.
When the NFL comes out and points out some rando is calling teams to try to negotiate on your behalf, it's embarrassing. Amateur hour.
That probably has a lot to do with it. However how much of it is a CYA responding to a compliant by the NFLPA?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Are we sure about that?
He was incredible in 2019, but look at his three seasons since.
2019: 36 touchdowns, 6 interceptions, 3127 passing yards, 13 wins, 1206 rushing yards, 7 rushing touchdowns
2020-2022 (3-season averages): 20 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, 2627 passing yards, 9 wins, 845 rushing yards, 4 rushing touchdowns
So yeah, he has not been close to the QB that he was in 2019 in the three seasons since. And, yes, I did season averages, not per game averages, because missing games is part of the equation, so that is obviously factored into his overall averages. Part of being great is being available and durable.
Obviously depends what they do with the cap space and the 1st round draft picks. As we continually see having a good rookie QB on a rookie contract is a winning formula. The ravens are a really good team too with a solid D
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Using this logic, Baker Mayfield (42 GP the past 3 years) is a better QB than Deshaun Watson (22 GP). I get it, you can't contribute if you aren't playing. Matt Ryan played in 45 games over that time frame . . . are teams clamoring to bring him in and start him? QBs get hurt on occasion. Some get hurt Week 1, others in Week 17. Depending upon when the injury occurs and how severe it is, a QB could miss no time, some time, or a lot of time. IMO, how much time a player will miss and how often he will get injured is very unpredictable. If Allen or Mahomes breaks a hand on a helmet and misses half the season next year, are either of those guys going to be considered an injury risk? The perception is that more mobile QBs get hurt more, but I am not sure we can conclude that as the sample size is very small.
-OZ-
Footballguy
honestly I just find the business side of sports interesting.Well, Lamar isn’t my friend and he’ll be fine no matter what (reasonably) happens here. I hope I have a LOT more influence on my kids and friends than any of us have with the NFL or Lamar.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
A guy employed by the NFL Network 'leaked' the story (per NFL Network's Tom Pelissero). How many times has some unaccredited agent 'attempted' to negotiate an NFL contract without the knowledge of a player that we've never heard about because it wasn't reported?
It 'likely' has happened in the past but we do not know how often, the context because they've never 'leaked/reported' those stories.
Direct from the source, Lamar laughed and said to stop lying, that the guy never negotiated anything on his behalf.
Lamar Jackson
@Lj_era8
Stop Lying that man never tried to negotiate for me
-------------
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Chump Change
Chaka
Footballguy
Florio says someone was doing this on behalf of Tunsil. Been crickets from the league about that.
massraider
Footballguy
I don't see any reason why Lamar can't play out his franchise tags, and become an unrestricted free agent. That takes time, and there's risks, but I I don't even know what QBs will be getting in two years. 60/year?
Or the NFLPA never reported it to the league before?A guy employed by the NFL Network 'leaked' the story (per NFL Network's Tom Pelissero). How many times has some unaccredited agent 'attempted' to negotiate an NFL contract without the knowledge of a player that we've never heard about because it wasn't reported?
It 'likely' has happened in the past but we do not know how often, the context because they've never 'leaked/reported' those stories.
Direct from the source, Lamar laughed and said to stop lying, that the guy never negotiated anything on his behalf.
Lamar Jackson
@Lj_era8
Stop Lying that man never tried to negotiate for me
-------------
Very first words...The NFLPA has informed us that a person by the name of Ken Francis, who is not an NFLPA certified agent.
Unless the NFL is lying about the NFLPA reporting it, I don't see how this is anything other than the NFL carrying out their obligations to the NFLPA as collectively bargained for.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Or they report all phony agents because the league needs to know and it's the first time the NFL Network reported it.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
He certainly could do that but it doesn't seem smart for Lamar. He has already ended the past two seasons inactive due to injuries. He's not in the best position to bet on himself. If he has another major injury while playing on the tag he may be leaving a lot of money on the table. He doesn't even need to get hurt, he could just have another down year and depress his value even further.
If there was a team that was chomping at the bit to give him the mega deal he wants, I think it would have happened by now.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Given that Daniel Jones just signed a 4-year, $160M extension with $92M guaranteed, I think Lamar's credentials and street cred are just fine. I highly doubt playing another year in BAL will crater his value. Jones made 53 starts the past 4 seasons compared to 54 for Jackson. Jones threw 60 TD compared to 95 for Lamar in that time. IMO (and the opinion of many others), Jackson's biggest stumbling block is not his health, his playoff record, his style of play, or not having an agent. The league collectively is not interested in fully guaranteeing contracts for $250 million. I suspect he'd be signed by the Ravens by now if he were willing to accept a 5 year, $250M deal with the first 3 years guaranteed . . . if not BAL, someone else would be happy to offer him that.
massraider
Footballguy
Maybe. Maybe he will play out two franchise tags, and hit unrestricted free agency as a 27 year old QB, and not get a big deal.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Based on your takeaway from my post, you clearly need to read it again.
Tau837
Footballguy
Well, he definitely isn't going to play out two franchise tags and hit UFA as a 27 year old, because he is 26 years old.
I agree with WOO that it is an obvious non-trivial risk for Jackson to play out two seasons on franchise tags, betting that he will finally not be tagged again and thus will reach UFA and get a top of market deal. The reasons are obvious:
- He could suffer one or more additional injuries, further underlining the injury risk/durability/availability concern. This has already happened the past two years.
- He could continue to perform at his 2021-2022 performance level, which was not close to top QBs. This has also happened the past two years.
Not sure what Daniel Jones has to do with it, the numbers being thrown around for Lamar are way bigger than his. No one is saying there is no market for Lamar, the question is where does that market fall on the scale?
IMO, a good part of the reason teams aren't interested in fully guaranteeing $250 mil are precisely what you listed as not his biggest stumbling block. I'd bet that Burrow and Herbert get more and a larger % of their contracts guaranteed than Lamar does.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
You dinged Jackson for not playing as part of your evaluation and reluctance to use per game numbers. In the 3 years you mentioned, the Ravens were 26-13 in the regular season when Jackson played and 3-8 when he didn't. Whether he played every game or not since 2019, the huge majority of players don't ever repeat a career year / MVP season. Other than Andrews, BAL hasn't had many productive receiving options on the roster (Marquise Brown was his one true WR threat), and the Ravens suffered endless injuries to just about every RB on their roster. Who knows how much that impacted Jackson, but I certainly doubt it helped his cause any. Similarly, we can only guess how productive the same batch of receivers would have been with another QB. It's probably sound to compare 2019 Jackson to 2015 Newton (in that they weren't as productive in other seasons). With the way teams throw money at QBs these days, I am not sure they are using the logic that Lamar won't come close to that again. On another franchise with better pieces, I would think OC's out there would feel they could be a dynamic offense with Jackson.
massraider
Footballguy
Notable Ravens WR free agent signings since 2018 and age at signing:
DeSean Jackson (35)
Dez Bryant (31)
Michael Floyd (30)
Michael Crabtree (30)
Sammy Watkins (2x: 29, 27)
Seth Roberts (28)
John Brown (27)
Demarcus Robinson (27)
Chris Moore (26)
Willie Snead (25)
DeSean Jackson (35)
Dez Bryant (31)
Michael Floyd (30)
Michael Crabtree (30)
Sammy Watkins (2x: 29, 27)
Seth Roberts (28)
John Brown (27)
Demarcus Robinson (27)
Chris Moore (26)
Willie Snead (25)
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
While I agree the Ravens could have been more aggressive in the WR market, this is more an indication on how real WR1s never hit the open market. If you look at the top 25 WR contracts by value, only 4 signed as true free agents. Christian Kirk, Corey Davis, Curtis Samuel and Allen Robinson. Rough group.
You get WR1s by drafting them, which the Ravens have tried with Brown and Bateman and not really succeeded. They will probably try again this year. Or you trade a haul for them like Tyreek and AJ Brown. That has never been the Ravens style and I don't see that changing now. Yes, the Ravens need a true WR1 but they have a top 2 or 3 TE in Andrews and they locked him up. They also keep a solid Oline in front of him. I think the narrative that the Ravens haven't surrounded Lamar with enough talent is overblown.
Yep, they've spent a good amount of draft capital on WRs since they drafted Lamar, and it's pretty tough to attract top free agent WRs when your offense is so run heavy and your QB isn't a great passer.
Now we can add Nelson Agholor (30), because of course that's who they wanted.
Oh Ravens, never change.
massraider
Footballguy
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Wait until Lamar signs his $250 million contract. That will free up a ton of money for Ravens to sign FA WR's.
Sorry. I forgot it's not Lamar's concern what the Ravens have left over to pay WR's and long-snappers as long as he gets his.
Sorry. I forgot it's not Lamar's concern what the Ravens have left over to pay WR's and long-snappers as long as he gets his.
Chaka
Footballguy
Sort of.
After being an All-Pro in 2019 Ronnie Stanley has missed 32 games over the last three seasons.
Then they lost Orlando Brown after 2020.
The line has been okay, at best since 2020.
Tau837
Footballguy
PFF pass blocking grades for the Ravens offense, and the rank of each grade:
- 2019 - 87.0, #1
- 2020 - 70.8, tied for #10
- 2021 - 69.7, #13
- 2022 - 80.2, #2
Yeah, what idiots for not going above $11 mil/yr. for the great Allen Lazard or Jakobi Meyers.
massraider
Footballguy
Said nobody. You are changing the discussion now. I don’t blame you.
The info I gleaned from that list is that the Ravens have made bad choices signing free agent WRs.
Draft, as well. Hollywood, but he wanted out. Bateman, but he can’t stay healthy. And Bateman blames the team for that. Those are their best WR picks in I don’t know how many years.
it has not been a great bunch of receiving weapons in Baltimore. This is not a controversial opinion.
Not changing anything. You're blaming the Ravens, saying they've made bad choices signing free agent WRs. It's been pointed out to you that most WR free agent signings have been complete busts, so I'd argue that they've made pretty good choices in not signing free agent WRs. Much better to whiff on a guy you're paying peanuts to than to blow a ton of money on someone like Kenny Golladay or Allen Robinson.
Brown is a pretty good WR, yes he wanted out- why do you think that is? Time will tell on Bateman, and nice touch adding him blaming the Ravens. Really hits home your other false narrative.
I know, not everyone can be the Raiders and hit home runs consistently at WR like Henry Ruggs. Not sure if you've noticed, but it gets harder hitting on draft picks when you're consistently picking towards the bottom of the draft. That tends to happen to good teams.
This. Not just for negotiations but if things are at the point he's done in Baltimore, the agent could help facilitate a trade.
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