QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (2 Viewers)

[-OZ-]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

Yep
It only takes one team.
I get the argument “Purdy, Daniel Jones and Geno made the Playoffs” but that only kinda works if the rest of your team is stacked. Even then, those guys haven’t won a ring (yet)

 

[Boston]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

Yep
It only takes one team.
I get the argument “Purdy, Daniel Jones and Geno made the Playoffs” but that only kinda works if the rest of your team is stacked. Even then, those guys haven’t won a ring (yet)

Also, you gotta get lucky with that type of guy...Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant...last offseason the Giants did not pick-up Jones's 5th year option which shows the faith they had in him after 3 years...and Geno was a 32-year backup on his 4th team...these are all great stories but if you are counting on that to happen it is irresponsible.

 

[Tau837]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

Yep
It only takes one team.
I get the argument “Purdy, Daniel Jones and Geno made the Playoffs” but that only kinda works if the rest of your team is stacked. Even then, those guys haven’t won a ring (yet)

SF is stacked. Not sure I agree that SEA and NYG are.

 

[-OZ-]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

Yep
It only takes one team.
I get the argument “Purdy, Daniel Jones and Geno made the Playoffs” but that only kinda works if the rest of your team is stacked. Even then, those guys haven’t won a ring (yet)

SF is stacked. Not sure I agree that SEA and NYG are.

It’s relative. Keeping in mind they were the 6 and 7, the giants beat a similarly talented team and the Seahawks lost.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

If Brady leaves Lamar should go to Tampa. They could use a running game.

 

[Capella]

3 teams felt they were "a QB away" and went all in with draft capital and a big contract (CLE/DEN/LAR). In all 3 cases, that's looking like a bad long-term decision. Rams got a ring, nothing about the Stafford deal has looked good since or going forward. Still early in CLE and DEN, but not looking good so far.

Wait you can’t just be like like all of these were bad decisions while quickly glossing over how the Rams won a Super Bowl largely because of that trade. Every team in the league would do that again.

 

[Da Guru]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

Yep
It only takes one team.
I get the argument “Purdy, Daniel Jones and Geno made the Playoffs” but that only kinda works if the rest of your team is stacked. Even then, those guys haven’t won a ring (yet)

The Giants and Seahawks were in a rebuild mode. Geno played very solid all season, he has been around the game a long time and knows where to to go with the football. Jones has always been athletic enough, now it seems the other parts of the are coming around.

 

[Capella]

So what is the thought on Lamar? Would the Ravens really consider trading him?

 

[menobrown]

So what is the thought on Lamar? Would the Ravens really consider trading him?

I think they are considering all of their options right now.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

So what is the thought on Lamar? Would the Ravens really consider trading him?

I think they would. They wouldn't want to - the guy is a superhero around that town and the PR hit wouldn't be good - but may feel they have no choice if they can't work out a deal with him. It's a delicate situation - a lot of the players (other than rent-a-bench-player Sammy Watkins) publicly support Jackson and there's a risk of losing the locker room if they trade him. Hell, Dobbins said they'd have beaten the Bengals Sunday if Jackson had been able play, which may be true but is a crappy thing to have Huntley hear.

 

[Capella]

So what is the thought on Lamar? Would the Ravens really consider trading him?

I think they would. They wouldn't want to - the guy is a superhero around that town and the PR hit wouldn't be good - but may feel they have no choice if they can't work out a deal with him. It's a delicate situation - a lot of the players (other than rent-a-bench-player Sammy Watkins) publicly support Jackson and there's a risk of losing the locker room if they trade him. Hell, Dobbins said they'd have beaten the Bengals Sunday if Jackson had been able play, which may be true but is a crappy thing to have Huntley hear.

2 firsts?

Asking for a franchise who may be seeing a legendary middle aged quarterback leave or retire.

 

[FairWarning]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

Yep
It only takes one team.
I get the argument “Purdy, Daniel Jones and Geno made the Playoffs” but that only kinda works if the rest of your team is stacked. Even then, those guys haven’t won a ring (yet)

SF is stacked. Not sure I agree that SEA and NYG are.

It’s relative. Keeping in mind they were the 6 and 7, the giants beat a similarly talented team and the Seahawks lost.

Seattle was also picked to be one of the worst teams. It’s an interesting decision on whether they resign Geno and for how long.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

So what is the thought on Lamar? Would the Ravens really consider trading him?

I think they would. They wouldn't want to - the guy is a superhero around that town and the PR hit wouldn't be good - but may feel they have no choice if they can't work out a deal with him. It's a delicate situation - a lot of the players (other than rent-a-bench-player Sammy Watkins) publicly support Jackson and there's a risk of losing the locker room if they trade him. Hell, Dobbins said they'd have beaten the Bengals Sunday if Jackson had been able play, which may be true but is a crappy thing to have Huntley hear.

2 firsts?

Asking for a franchise who may be seeing a legendary middle aged quarterback leave or retire.

Who's the coach gonna be?

 

[Chaka]

3 teams felt they were "a QB away" and went all in with draft capital and a big contract (CLE/DEN/LAR). In all 3 cases, that's looking like a bad long-term decision. Rams got a ring, nothing about the Stafford deal has looked good since or going forward. Still early in CLE and DEN, but not looking good so far.

Wait you can’t just be like like all of these were bad decisions while quickly glossing over how the Rams won a Super Bowl largely because of that trade. Every team in the league would do that again.

Also Cleveland's decision had nothing to do with 2022.

And I think people are closing the book on Wilson's career a little too quickly.

 

[humpback]

So what is the thought on Lamar? Would the Ravens really consider trading him?

I think they would. They wouldn't want to - the guy is a superhero around that town and the PR hit wouldn't be good - but may feel they have no choice if they can't work out a deal with him. It's a delicate situation - a lot of the players (other than rent-a-bench-player Sammy Watkins) publicly support Jackson and there's a risk of losing the locker room if they trade him. Hell, Dobbins said they'd have beaten the Bengals Sunday if Jackson had been able play, which may be true but is a crappy thing to have Huntley hear.

2 firsts?

Asking for a franchise who may be seeing a legendary middle aged quarterback leave or retire.

Of course they're considering it, and 2 firsts isn't even close considering one is #19.

 

[Capella]

So what is the thought on Lamar? Would the Ravens really consider trading him?

I think they would. They wouldn't want to - the guy is a superhero around that town and the PR hit wouldn't be good - but may feel they have no choice if they can't work out a deal with him. It's a delicate situation - a lot of the players (other than rent-a-bench-player Sammy Watkins) publicly support Jackson and there's a risk of losing the locker room if they trade him. Hell, Dobbins said they'd have beaten the Bengals Sunday if Jackson had been able play, which may be true but is a crappy thing to have Huntley hear.

2 firsts?

Asking for a franchise who may be seeing a legendary middle aged quarterback leave or retire.

Who's the coach gonna be?

Sadly, probably Bowles.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

When you can pull Geno off the scrap heap of set Purdy in the 7th there are probably more QBs out there that are startable than we realize.

Who knows what the impact will be, if any, but what's happened in the NFL over last 12-24 months won't help Lamar's case.

3 teams felt they were "a QB away" and went all in with draft capital and a big contract (CLE/DEN/LAR). In all 3 cases, that's looking like a bad long-term decision. Rams got a ring, nothing about the Stafford deal has looked good since or going forward. Still early in CLE and DEN, but not looking good so far.

And absolutely the teams that shipped off the franchise QB are really, really glad they did. That's a rare thing to say in the NFL, it feels like, and it just happened 3 times.

Along Geno/Purdy as you mention, and the NFC only having one 1st round QB make the Playoffs (although, if Lamar and Tua were healthy, all of the AFC QBs would have been 1st round picks).

Anyway, it only takes one team, but it seems like an odd time for QB valuations in the NFL right now. And of course, Lamar is already incredibly difficult evaluate long-term.

While I don't see BAL giving him the godfather deal, I could see him back in BAL if the market is softer than we think (based on a number of factors).

You make solid points, and while I’m absolutely not a big LJax fan, I have to defend him a little here.

LJax is a cheat code QB. When healthy & on his game, there are few better weapons in the NFL at any position. He can give you MVP seasons and is capable of winning a SB.

If LJax played CIN I’m 99% sure BAL wins that game. Cinci won on a bad/careless attempt by Huntley at the stripe - LJax bulls it into the end zone there and it’s 24-17 BAL.

I’m a Niners fan and love what Purdy is doing. Geno Smith has been amazing this year considering he was a scrap heap QB largely left for dead and competing with Lock, who the Seahawks reportedly insisted was included in the Russell Wilson deal.

But I don’t see either of them in LJax caliber of player.

Where I believe LJax hurt himself by not signing before this year is that both he and Kyler Murray got hurt. That’s the knock on mobile QBs. The difference is that Murray got paid 1st & LJax did not.

But all that said, I believe LJax will get paid. And I believe he’ll be worth the $, whatever it is. I’d love to see what he could do in Seattle or San Francisco with those coaches & weapons, or in some other situation other than BAL.

What’s he’s done in BAL has been pretty remarkable.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

these are all great stories but if you are counting on that to happen it is irresponsible.

Exactly this.

 

[-OZ-]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

When you can pull Geno off the scrap heap of set Purdy in the 7th there are probably more QBs out there that are startable than we realize.

Who knows what the impact will be, if any, but what's happened in the NFL over last 12-24 months won't help Lamar's case.

3 teams felt they were "a QB away" and went all in with draft capital and a big contract (CLE/DEN/LAR). In all 3 cases, that's looking like a bad long-term decision. Rams got a ring, nothing about the Stafford deal has looked good since or going forward. Still early in CLE and DEN, but not looking good so far.

And absolutely the teams that shipped off the franchise QB are really, really glad they did. That's a rare thing to say in the NFL, it feels like, and it just happened 3 times.

Along Geno/Purdy as you mention, and the NFC only having one 1st round QB make the Playoffs (although, if Lamar and Tua were healthy, all of the AFC QBs would have been 1st round picks).

Anyway, it only takes one team, but it seems like an odd time for QB valuations in the NFL right now. And of course, Lamar is already incredibly difficult evaluate long-term.

While I don't see BAL giving him the godfather deal, I could see him back in BAL if the market is softer than we think (based on a number of factors).

You make solid points, and while I’m absolutely not a big LJax fan, I have to defend him a little here.

LJax is a cheat code QB. When healthy & on his game, there are few better weapons in the NFL at any position. He can give you MVP seasons and is capable of winning a SB.

If LJax played CIN I’m 99% sure BAL wins that game. Cinci won on a bad/careless attempt by Huntley at the stripe - LJax bulls it into the end zone there and it’s 24-17 BAL.

I’m a Niners fan and love what Purdy is doing. Geno Smith has been amazing this year considering he was a scrap heap QB largely left for dead and competing with Lock, who the Seahawks reportedly insisted was included in the Russell Wilson deal.

But I don’t see either of them in LJax caliber of player.

Where I believe LJax hurt himself by not signing before this year is that both he and Kyler Murray got hurt. That’s the knock on mobile QBs. The difference is that Murray got paid 1st & LJax did not.

But all that said, I believe LJax will get paid. And I believe he’ll be worth the $, whatever it is. I’d love to see what he could do in Seattle or San Francisco with those coaches & weapons, or in some other situation other than BAL.

What’s he’s done in BAL has been pretty remarkable.

Like I’ll say for multiple QBs, I’d love him in Tennessee. The receivers are about the same as he has now anyway. But Derrick and Lamar would be fun.

 

[Chaka]

I think people are drastically underestimating the value of a guy like Lamar to an NFL franchise.

It's not just about can he/can't he win a Super Bowl. To an NFL owner it's far more about can he/can't he but asses in the seats even if they don't win the Super Bowl? And Lamar can do that. That's what owners will line up to overpay for.

 

[ChicoCat]

I think people are drastically underestimating the value of a guy like Lamar to an NFL franchise.

It's not just about can he/can't he win a Super Bowl. To an NFL owner it's far more about can he/can't he but asses in the seats even if they don't win the Super Bowl? And Lamar can do that. That's what owners will line up to overpay for.

I don't know. Are there alot of teams crying poor about putting asses in the seats?

I get Lamar is a talent. Right now, there isn't 10 QBs above him in the NFL. He's a guy who can be the best QB any given year. He's also a guy who can be the 15th best QB any given year. This guy should be untouchable in regards to acquiring him. But it more and more sounds like he IS becoming available for the right price. In a league that values QB over everything else...that BAL would move on from him sends up a red flag.

 

[-OZ-]

I think people are drastically underestimating the value of a guy like Lamar to an NFL franchise.

It's not just about can he/can't he win a Super Bowl. To an NFL owner it's far more about can he/can't he but asses in the seats even if they don't win the Super Bowl? And Lamar can do that. That's what owners will line up to overpay for.

I don't know. Are there alot of teams crying poor about putting asses in the seats?

I get Lamar is a talent. Right now, there isn't 10 QBs above him in the NFL. He's a guy who can be the best QB any given year. He's also a guy who can be the 15th best QB any given year. This guy should be untouchable in regards to acquiring him. But it more and more sounds like he IS becoming available for the right price. In a league that values QB over everything else...that BAL would move on from him sends up a red flag.

Right. And at least before this last month he seems to be a good teammate and face of a franchise. 100% better in those regards than Watson. Arguably better than Wilson, who seemed to get weird this year.

 

[CalBear]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

When you can pull Geno off the scrap heap of set Purdy in the 7th there are probably more QBs out there that are startable than we realize.

Who knows what the impact will be, if any, but what's happened in the NFL over last 12-24 months won't help Lamar's case.

3 teams felt they were "a QB away" and went all in with draft capital and a big contract (CLE/DEN/LAR). In all 3 cases, that's looking like a bad long-term decision. Rams got a ring, nothing about the Stafford deal has looked good since or going forward. Still early in CLE and DEN, but not looking good so far.

And absolutely the teams that shipped off the franchise QB are really, really glad they did. That's a rare thing to say in the NFL, it feels like, and it just happened 3 times.

Along Geno/Purdy as you mention, and the NFC only having one 1st round QB make the Playoffs (although, if Lamar and Tua were healthy, all of the AFC QBs would have been 1st round picks).

Anyway, it only takes one team, but it seems like an odd time for QB valuations in the NFL right now. And of course, Lamar is already incredibly difficult evaluate long-term.

While I don't see BAL giving him the godfather deal, I could see him back in BAL if the market is softer than we think (based on a number of factors).

Where I believe LJax hurt himself by not signing before this year is that both he and Kyler Murray got hurt. That’s the knock on mobile QBs.

There's no evidence mobile QBs get hurt more often than non-mobile QBs. Tua averages less than 3 runs per game. Same with Garoppolo. Just to name two other non-mobile starting QBs who missed the playoffs this year. Jackson was hurt on a sack on a drop-back pass.

 

[Anarchy99]

I don't know what Vegas is smoking, but they have the Patriots as the betting favorites to land Lamar if he leaves the Ravens.

NE 4-1
NYJ 5-1
ATL 6-1
LV 6-1
SF 7-1
WAS 7-1
TEN 8-1
NO 9-1
CAR 10-1
TB 12-1
HOU 12-1
GB 16-1
LAR 16-1

Not really sure why the Rams on there . . . IIRC, they announced the other day they were bringing back Stafford for 2023 and 2024.

 

[Boston]

I think people are drastically underestimating the value of a guy like Lamar to an NFL franchise.

It's not just about can he/can't he win a Super Bowl. To an NFL owner it's far more about can he/can't he but asses in the seats even if they don't win the Super Bowl? And Lamar can do that. That's what owners will line up to overpay for.

I don't know. Are there alot of teams crying poor about putting asses in the seats?

I get Lamar is a talent. Right now, there isn't 10 QBs above him in the NFL. He's a guy who can be the best QB any given year. He's also a guy who can be the 15th best QB any given year. This guy should be untouchable in regards to acquiring him. But it more and more sounds like he IS becoming available for the right price. In a league that values QB over everything else...that BAL would move on from him sends up a red flag.

Not if he is asking for a guaranteed contract like Watson got…I think Jackson is the real deal and worth a ton but I could totally understand not wanting to give out that same deal.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

There's no evidence mobile QBs get hurt more often than non-mobile QBs. Tua averages less than 3 runs per game. Same with Garoppolo. Just to name two other non-mobile starting QBs who missed the playoffs this year. Jackson was hurt on a sack on a drop-back pass.

I’m not saying there is. I’ve argued against that theory in the past as well.

But it is a relatively common perception.

I’m just saying it’s bad luck that both he & Murray were hurt this year. And Tua, now that you mention it, along with Fields, who was hurt on a scramble.

I’m not sure how much weight it will carry when it comes to paying LJax. As I’d said already, I believe he will get paid regardless.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not if he is asking for a guaranteed contract like Watson got…I think Jackson is the real deal and worth a ton but I could totally understand not wanting to give out that same deal.

I agree - and that goes for any QB.

The Watson deal was utterly insane IMO. CLE was wildly irresponsible in making that deal.

I don’t know if it sets the market for future QB deals, but IMO it shouldn’t.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't know what Vegas is smoking, but they have the Patriots as the betting favorites to land Lamar if he leaves the Ravens.

NE 4-1
NYJ 5-1
ATL 6-1
LV 6-1
SF 7-1
WAS 7-1
TEN 8-1
NO 9-1
CAR 10-1
TB 12-1
HOU 12-1
GB 16-1
LAR 16-1

Not really sure why the Rams on there . . . IIRC, they announced the other day they were bringing back Stafford for 2023 and 2024.

SF at 7-1 seems crazy too, in light of their current string of success with Purdy, who’s exceptionally affordable.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I get Lamar is a talent. Right now, there isn't 10 QBs above him in the NFL. He's a guy who can be the best QB any given year. He's also a guy who can be the 15th best QB any given year. This guy should be untouchable in regards to acquiring him. But it more and more sounds like he IS becoming available for the right price. In a league that values QB over everything else...that BAL would move on from him sends up a red flag.

It’s a tricky situation.

If I’m the GM in Baltimore there’s no way I let him go.

Also, if I’m the GM in Baltimore there’s no way I give anyone a $250,000,000 100% guaranteed contract, or whatever the number is.

 

[Anarchy99]

Not if he is asking for a guaranteed contract like Watson got…I think Jackson is the real deal and worth a ton but I could totally understand not wanting to give out that same deal.

On a side note, I think the marquee players in the league need to make a stand and all start demanding fully guaranteed contracts like the other major sports / players associations. It's crazy that the league with the highest chance of serious injury has non-guaranteed contracts and teams can get out of contracts with minimal payout or long-term exposure.

 

[Boston]

I get Lamar is a talent. Right now, there isn't 10 QBs above him in the NFL. He's a guy who can be the best QB any given year. He's also a guy who can be the 15th best QB any given year. This guy should be untouchable in regards to acquiring him. But it more and more sounds like he IS becoming available for the right price. In a league that values QB over everything else...that BAL would move on from him sends up a red flag.

It’s a tricky situation.

If I’m the GM in Baltimore there’s no way I let him go.

Also, if I’m the GM in Baltimore there’s no way I give anyone a $250,000,000 100% guaranteed contract, or whatever the number is.

Perfectly sums up this situation.

 

[pollardsvision]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

When you can pull Geno off the scrap heap of set Purdy in the 7th there are probably more QBs out there that are startable than we realize.

Who knows what the impact will be, if any, but what's happened in the NFL over last 12-24 months won't help Lamar's case.

3 teams felt they were "a QB away" and went all in with draft capital and a big contract (CLE/DEN/LAR). In all 3 cases, that's looking like a bad long-term decision. Rams got a ring, nothing about the Stafford deal has looked good since or going forward. Still early in CLE and DEN, but not looking good so far.

And absolutely the teams that shipped off the franchise QB are really, really glad they did. That's a rare thing to say in the NFL, it feels like, and it just happened 3 times.

Along Geno/Purdy as you mention, and the NFC only having one 1st round QB make the Playoffs (although, if Lamar and Tua were healthy, all of the AFC QBs would have been 1st round picks).

Anyway, it only takes one team, but it seems like an odd time for QB valuations in the NFL right now. And of course, Lamar is already incredibly difficult evaluate long-term.

While I don't see BAL giving him the godfather deal, I could see him back in BAL if the market is softer than we think (based on a number of factors).

Where I believe LJax hurt himself by not signing before this year is that both he and Kyler Murray got hurt. That’s the knock on mobile QBs.

There's no evidence mobile QBs get hurt more often than non-mobile QBs. Tua averages less than 3 runs per game. Same with Garoppolo. Just to name two other non-mobile starting QBs who missed the playoffs this year. Jackson was hurt on a sack on a drop-back pass.

The issue when it comes to giving a mobile quarterback an expensive long contract is not how often they get hurt.

It's....can they return the value if they lose a step (which is basically inevitable for most human beings).

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

When you can pull Geno off the scrap heap of set Purdy in the 7th there are probably more QBs out there that are startable than we realize.

Who knows what the impact will be, if any, but what's happened in the NFL over last 12-24 months won't help Lamar's case.

3 teams felt they were "a QB away" and went all in with draft capital and a big contract (CLE/DEN/LAR). In all 3 cases, that's looking like a bad long-term decision. Rams got a ring, nothing about the Stafford deal has looked good since or going forward. Still early in CLE and DEN, but not looking good so far.

And absolutely the teams that shipped off the franchise QB are really, really glad they did. That's a rare thing to say in the NFL, it feels like, and it just happened 3 times.

Along Geno/Purdy as you mention, and the NFC only having one 1st round QB make the Playoffs (although, if Lamar and Tua were healthy, all of the AFC QBs would have been 1st round picks).

Anyway, it only takes one team, but it seems like an odd time for QB valuations in the NFL right now. And of course, Lamar is already incredibly difficult evaluate long-term.

While I don't see BAL giving him the godfather deal, I could see him back in BAL if the market is softer than we think (based on a number of factors).

Where I believe LJax hurt himself by not signing before this year is that both he and Kyler Murray got hurt. That’s the knock on mobile QBs.

There's no evidence mobile QBs get hurt more often than non-mobile QBs. Tua averages less than 3 runs per game. Same with Garoppolo. Just to name two other non-mobile starting QBs who missed the playoffs this year. Jackson was hurt on a sack on a drop-back pass.

The issue when it comes to giving a mobile quarterback an expensive long contract is not how often they get hurt.

It's....can they return the value if they lose a step (which is basically inevitable for most human beings).

True.

In LJax case, I believe the arm-talent is there to transition his game and become more McMabb-esque - a pass 1st pocket guy who *can* take off running.

I’ve been impressed by his passing in recent seasons, and I used to bag on the guy for being “a running back who could throw” - I’ve come around on that a lot.

That said, the question is can he evolve his game to that point, and will Harbaugh ever be happy using him like that?

 

[Chaka]

I think people are drastically underestimating the value of a guy like Lamar to an NFL franchise.

It's not just about can he/can't he win a Super Bowl. To an NFL owner it's far more about can he/can't he but asses in the seats even if they don't win the Super Bowl? And Lamar can do that. That's what owners will line up to overpay for.

I don't know. Are there alot of teams crying poor about putting asses in the seats?

I get Lamar is a talent. Right now, there isn't 10 QBs above him in the NFL. He's a guy who can be the best QB any given year. He's also a guy who can be the 15th best QB any given year. This guy should be untouchable in regards to acquiring him. But it more and more sounds like he IS becoming available for the right price. In a league that values QB over everything else...that BAL would move on from him sends up a red flag.

There is a lot more to asses in the seats than just having people at the stadium. The marketing value of a true franchise QB, or one who plays one on TV (*cough* Baker Mayfield *cough*) is significant to a franchise.

 

[TartanLion]

Just listened to a podcast on my flight that said that from 2018 to now Lamar is 7th in the entire league in EPA on passes between the hashes from 5-20yards. He’s always been pretty good at feathering passes over the middle. If fit he’d go nuclear on a well run O that actually creates space for him to run and has good possession receivers and TEs. Ravens went from designing a good O for him when he first came in, to him succeeding despite Roman.

I wouldn’t imagine we’d do it but he would be hell of a fun in the Detroit scheme with Amon-Ra, Jamo, Swift and the strength of the line

Arthur Smith does suit him as well in Atlanta

 

[pollardsvision]

Lamar is worth more than a top 10 first

In a vaccum. I don't know if Lamar is worth 240,000,000 guaranteed plus giving up a Top Ten (and more) picks.

With that cap...you better have a good enough roster for a two/three year window....because being locked into that AND giving up high draft capital is a recipe for disaster for any team not on the verge. Ironically, BAL is probably the team best suited to pay him the money he wants AND be able contend for another few years.

It might not be the wisest decision but yes I’m saying he’s worth more than that even knowing you have to give him huge $ after you trade for him. There’s only so many qbs to go around and he is known asset.

When you can pull Geno off the scrap heap of set Purdy in the 7th there are probably more QBs out there that are startable than we realize.

Who knows what the impact will be, if any, but what's happened in the NFL over last 12-24 months won't help Lamar's case.

3 teams felt they were "a QB away" and went all in with draft capital and a big contract (CLE/DEN/LAR). In all 3 cases, that's looking like a bad long-term decision. Rams got a ring, nothing about the Stafford deal has looked good since or going forward. Still early in CLE and DEN, but not looking good so far.

And absolutely the teams that shipped off the franchise QB are really, really glad they did. That's a rare thing to say in the NFL, it feels like, and it just happened 3 times.

Along Geno/Purdy as you mention, and the NFC only having one 1st round QB make the Playoffs (although, if Lamar and Tua were healthy, all of the AFC QBs would have been 1st round picks).

Anyway, it only takes one team, but it seems like an odd time for QB valuations in the NFL right now. And of course, Lamar is already incredibly difficult evaluate long-term.

While I don't see BAL giving him the godfather deal, I could see him back in BAL if the market is softer than we think (based on a number of factors).

Where I believe LJax hurt himself by not signing before this year is that both he and Kyler Murray got hurt. That’s the knock on mobile QBs.

There's no evidence mobile QBs get hurt more often than non-mobile QBs. Tua averages less than 3 runs per game. Same with Garoppolo. Just to name two other non-mobile starting QBs who missed the playoffs this year. Jackson was hurt on a sack on a drop-back pass.

The issue when it comes to giving a mobile quarterback an expensive long contract is not how often they get hurt.

It's....can they return the value if they lose a step (which is basically inevitable for most human beings).

True.

In LJax case, I believe the arm-talent is there to transition his game and become more McMabb-esque - a pass 1st pocket guy who *can* take off running.

I’ve been impressed by his passing in recent seasons, and I used to bag on the guy for being “a running back who could throw” - I’ve come around on that a lot.

That said, the question is can he evolve his game to that point, and will Harbaugh ever be happy using him like that?

Yeah, he's become a very good passer. I could certainly see him making the transition when the time comes.

It's just a bit of an unknown, which translates to risk.

Not unlike an MLB pitcher with a dazzling fastball. Some can make the adjustment when they lose 3 MPH or so off their fastball, some cannot.

 

[The Man With No Name]

If Brady leaves Lamar should go to Tampa. They could use a running game.

He is from Florida. Not close to Tampa though

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

I see his perspective. It's a now-or-never contract for him. He won't be "Lamar" at 30.
I can't imagine paying him that kind of money, but I can't say he doesn't deserve it.

These discussions also make the Mahomes contract look better and better. KC was smart to lock him up at yesterday's "top dollar" price.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I see his perspective. It's a now-or-never contract for him. He won't be "Lamar" at 30.
I can't imagine paying him that kind of money, but I can't say he doesn't deserve it.

These discussions also make the Mahomes contract look better and better. KC was smart to lock him up at yesterday's "top dollar" price.

I remember an awful lot of pearl clutching at the Mahomes contract at the time.

 

[Gally]

LJax is a cheat code QB. When healthy & on his game, there are few better weapons in the NFL at any position. He can give you MVP seasons and is capable of winning a SB.

The thing that is getting glossed over when you talk about aquiring this "cheat code" Qb is that you will have to completely change your entire offense to play to his strengths to activate that cheat code.

Baltimore took the plunge and changed everything for Lamar. Not many team are willing to do that. A team may trade for him but are they then willing to scrap their offense and basically start over to use their new toy? If they aren't willing to do that they will be disappointed because they will miss out on the cheat code. That is not to say Lamar will be terrible in another offence not specifically geared to his strengths but he won't be the electric guy we have seen thus far.

That is the biggest risk with trying to acquire Lamar.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

LJax is a cheat code QB. When healthy & on his game, there are few better weapons in the NFL at any position. He can give you MVP seasons and is capable of winning a SB.

The thing that is getting glossed over when you talk about aquiring this "cheat code" Qb is that you will have to completely change your entire offense to play to his strengths to activate that cheat code.

Baltimore took the plunge and changed everything for Lamar. Not many team are willing to do that. A team may trade for him but are they then willing to scrap their offense and basically start over to use their new toy? If they aren't willing to do that they will be disappointed because they will miss out on the cheat code. That is not to say Lamar will be terrible in another offence not specifically geared to his strengths but he won't be the electric guy we have seen thus far.

That is the biggest risk with trying to acquire Lamar.

More and more I wonder if this is a chicken and the egg kinda thing.

I appreciate your points - not long ago I would have completely agreed with them.

But I also know that Greg Roman isn’t the most imaginable dude. I think it’s fair to wonder if LJax could be more in a more interesting offense. RPOs are great, and can be effective - but what if an offense had LJax dropping back more and RPO-ing less? Sort of a hybrid of what he’s been doing and what he could do.

I’m not sure if we ever find that out if he stays with the Ravens, but I think it’s fair to wonder.

 

[Chaka]

LJax is a cheat code QB. When healthy & on his game, there are few better weapons in the NFL at any position. He can give you MVP seasons and is capable of winning a SB.

The thing that is getting glossed over when you talk about aquiring this "cheat code" Qb is that you will have to completely change your entire offense to play to his strengths to activate that cheat code.

Baltimore took the plunge and changed everything for Lamar. Not many team are willing to do that. A team may trade for him but are they then willing to scrap their offense and basically start over to use their new toy? If they aren't willing to do that they will be disappointed because they will miss out on the cheat code. That is not to say Lamar will be terrible in another offence not specifically geared to his strengths but he won't be the electric guy we have seen thus far.

That is the biggest risk with trying to acquire Lamar.

More and more I wonder if this is a chicken and the egg kinda thing.

I appreciate your points - not long ago I would have completely agreed with them.

But I also know that Greg Roman isn’t the most imaginable dude. I think it’s fair to wonder if LJax could be more in a more interesting offense. RPOs are great, and can be effective - but what if an offense had LJax dropping back more and RPO-ing less? Sort of a hybrid of what he’s been doing and what he could do.

I’m not sure if we ever find that out if he stays with the Ravens, but I think it’s fair to wonder.

I tend to agree. People are talking about Lamar's passing as if he was Michael Vick and that's just not the case.

I also tend to subscribe to the "maybe not such a good passer" narrative but I think he has shown enough as a passer to consider he may be a lot more than that.

If, as a passer, Michael Vick is his floor then Russell Wilson is his ceiling...heck maybe even Josh Allen with the right coaching.

 

[Enzo....the Baker]

Salary cap room this off-season, Baltimore has 47 million....and I think that was before locking up Roquan.
And remember, the dude is his own agent. No telling how much he or his mom (asst. agent) are mandating. Chances are it's above 50 m per year and majority....if not all guaranteed as what we supposedly are hearing.

I think Baltimore is realizing they have to work out a trade

 

[Yenrub]

I get Lamar is a talent. Right now, there isn't 10 QBs above him in the NFL. He's a guy who can be the best QB any given year. He's also a guy who can be the 15th best QB any given year. This guy should be untouchable in regards to acquiring him. But it more and more sounds like he IS becoming available for the right price. In a league that values QB over everything else...that BAL would move on from him sends up a red flag.

It’s a tricky situation.

If I’m the GM in Baltimore there’s no way I let him go.

Also, if I’m the GM in Baltimore there’s no way I give anyone a $250,000,000 100% guaranteed contract, or whatever the number is.

Are we sure he is asking for 250M all guaranteed?
I saw a report he was offered 250M with 133M guaranteed. If that is true, I don’t blame him for not signing that deal.
Forget Watson’s deal. Russell Wilson got 161M guaranteed and Kyler Murray got 189M guaranteed.

 

[menobrown]

Yeah, he's become a very good passer. I could certainly see him making the transition when the time comes.

I think he's below average as a passer as in not in the top half of the league, maybe bottom third.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Are we sure he is asking for 250M all guaranteed?
I saw a report he was offered 250M with 133M guaranteed. If that is true, I don’t blame him for not signing that deal.
Forget Watson’s deal. Russell Wilson got 161M guaranteed and Kyler Murray got 189M guaranteed.

I’m not sure - that’s why I said “or whatever it is”. But I just googled, and reports are that he was/is looking for a fully guaranteed contract of “at least” $230M.

Which is pretty close.

It’s a lot to fully guarantee. And it seems like owners are reacting like just because the Browns did something dumb doesn’t mean we have to do something dumb, too.”

But all it takes is one team.

FWIW I thought the Murray and Wilson contracts were insane too.

 

[Gally]

If, as a passer, Michael Vick is his floor then Russell Wilson is his ceiling...heck maybe even Josh Allen with the right coaching.

Are you talking about the 2022 version of Russell Wilson? Wilson has(d) a very good arm and his deep ball was his best throw. Lamar is nowhere near that and misses those deep balls most of the time.

Comparing him to Josh Allen is comical. Their arms are nowhere near the same level of talent. Lamar cannot make the majority of throws that Allen can make. He just doesn't have the arm strength.

I do believe that Lamar could be a better passer than most give him credit for and he doesn't have to be just a runner to be valuable but he is not a standard QB and will need an offense tailored to his strengths (running/improve/inside the numbers passes) and minimize his weakness (arm strength and pocket passing). Does it have to be the exact offense Baltimore runs? No, but it isn't going to be a typical offense either.

The point is whichever team eventually gets his services will need to make some large changes to take advantage of his skill set.

 

[Gally]

But I also know that Greg Roman isn’t the most imaginable dude. I think it’s fair to wonder if LJax could be more in a more interesting offense. RPOs are great, and can be effective - but what if an offense had LJax dropping back more and RPO-ing less? Sort of a hybrid of what he’s been doing and what he could do.

That is still changing from a "normal" NFL offense. I don't necessarily mean he has to run 15-20 times on planned QB runs but that has to be in the offense as a threat to open up passing lanes because he doesn't have the arm strength (Allen) or deep accuracy (Russ) to do those things consistently. A hybrid will work but that is still changing to accommodate Lamar's strengths and minimize his weakness. It is amazing at how many coaches won't do this for their players and try and force them into the game plan they want to use. It is a flashing sign of who is a good coach and who isn't and the NFL is littered with those that won't change.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

It is a flashing sign of who is a good coach and who isn't and the NFL is littered with those that won't change.

It’s a very good point. Look at how CHI used Fields before taking the shackles off his legs - once he started running, the passing game also started clicking (up until the Mooney injury).

So in a sense, cap tip to Baltimore for relying on LJax strengths and designing an offense to suit them.

I’d still like to see him throw more - he does have a pretty decent arm.

 

[CalBear]

Yeah, he's become a very good passer. I could certainly see him making the transition when the time comes.

I think he's below average as a passer as in not in the top half of the league, maybe bottom third.

That's absurd. With one of the poorer receiving corps in the league, his career QB rating is among the top 10 among active QBs. Substantially higher than Josh Allen or Kyler Murray, for example.