What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

QB Lamar Jackson, BAL (2 Viewers)

Any team, except probably the Rams and Pats, can probably rework enough contracts to clear space for Lamar.
Not sure why the Pats would be out. They have over $10M in cap space. They could convert salary to bonuses on some of their pricier contracts to get under the cap if they wanted and/or extend some players to get there.
Weird I thought I typed Bucs.

That was the intent.

Fixed
 
2) Why do people think you can't do cap gymnastics even IF he wanted a fully guaranteed deal? DeShaun Watson's deal just got reworked to save $36 million.
Not sure what you mean and which team is doing the cap gymnastics. If it's a team trying to get Lamar to sign an offer sheet, if their offer is really light on the first-year cap hit and not a boatload of guaranteed money, BAL will almost certainly match it. If you mean BAL trying to re-sign him, then sure, they can set up a minimal first-year cap hit and play the kick-the-cap-hit-down-the-line strategy like the Browns are starting to do with Watson.

But what won't work as cap gymnastics is a scenario where a team signs Jackson to an offer sheet, the Ravens match, and then the Ravens trade him. Baltimore would take a gynormous cap hit that they could not avoid. The best way for the Ravens to trade Lamar is to get him to agree to the franchise tag and then trade him to another franchise. The Ravens would not take any cap hit, and his new team could work out a new deal with him. However, that new team would have to be $32 million under the cap at the time of the trade, because they would be importing Jackson on a one-year deal for the guaranteed franchise tag number. They could manipulate that in a new deal, but first they would need to bring him in under the salary cap. As of now, the only team currently with that much cap space is Chicago.
That's what I think Lamar is willing to do. However, he's not signing unless a team is ready to trade for him and the Ravens themselves have no wish/incentive TO trade him. To me that's why Lamar made that tweet during the league meetings as a way of throwing down the gauntlet.

With the amount of cap gymnastics and teams who are amazing at it (as @Chaka put it, Saints had went from $22-27 million over the cap to $25 million UNDER in like a week), you'd think a team would at least inquire about his services. Unfortunately, not many teams will pursue it because it's pretty clear with the chunk of young QBs available for new deals, the owners don't want the guaranteed money train to leave the station. People can call it "hive mind"/collusion/whatever, but it makes no sense that no one wants to look into getting a QB as explosive as he is and a league MVP; especially with the stupid contracts average QBs have been getting.

EDIT: Initially I thought the wild card would be the Jets, but apparently they're all in on Aaron Rodgers. The Commanders will have new ownership by the draft (two $6 billion dollar offers just got submitted), and maybe their stance will change once the new owners come in? :oldunsure:
 
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Really?

The more time passes, the more it seems he is pissing away millions of dollars.

A guy who plays the style of football he plays should have taken a Josh Allen-type deal at least a year ago. I don't see how anyone can disagree with this. He's flirting with this coming year on the franchise tag being his last. Why not lock up another $125 million? The risk is not worth the reward. Seems like a classic case of him thinking he's invincible.

Lamar should reach out to RG3 - a really smart guy who has been down this sort of road.
IDK his fallback position is to simply take the $130 mil, or so, fully guaranteed the Ravens already offered him. They won't say no if he says he's good with that now (they'll probably even fudge the numbers a little to make it seem like he got more to the media but whatever).

He literally has not hurt his potential earnings at all.

The problem truly arises if Jackson takes the $130 guaranteed, with whatever the theoretical max $$ and years are, and next year the Bengals give Burrow $250 mil fully guaranteed. Burrow is a better QB but that's not the issue.

It's not next year for Burrow. He should be extended this offseason, same as Herbert and Hurts.
They are eligible for extension but, particularly for Burrow & Herbert the teams have two more seasons before they will be forced to make hard decisions about contracts and tags.

Hurts doesn't fall under the 5th year option model so the Eagles are next in line to have to grapple with the full guarantee issue.

But most situations with apparent elite QBs on rookie contracts result in an extension in the offseason after their third NFL season. It happened for Mahomes and Allen, plus Murray, who isn't even elite IMO. I'm sure there are others I am forgetting. It didn't happen for Jackson for whatever reason, but I fully expect it to happen for Herbert and Burrow. I expect their teams to first exercise their 5th year options, then agree to terms on a contract extension beyond year 5. That will allow deferring the big cap hits until year 6 (2025)... again, as happened with Mahomes and Allen.
 
Initially I thought the wild card would be the Jets, but apparently they're all in on Aaron Rodgers
They likely are, and have been since they signed Hackett as OC, BUT Rodgers is the biggest prima donna in the league and Woody Johnson's comments about being impatient to win now are very interesting for a team trying to negotiate the best price with the Packers and Rodgers.

They are virtually out on Lamar but I would not say literally out.
 
Last edited:
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Worried wrong word. I do enjoy negotiating though and the appeals to emotion just make me cringe.

I want to see him get and take the best deal he can. Kinda sucks watching a guy just lose out on millions through pure ignorance.I
I'm not sure if this is true tho. There's a possibly flawed assumption that that an agent helps one get the best deal. This was brought up in one of my economics classes way back when. What's the difference between 1% of $200 million and 1% of $190 million, when the more lucrative deal requires hours and hours of phone calls, emails, and leg work. An agent probably tries to get his client to sign the $190 million offer.

I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation. And it's not because an agent would help him get more money.
 
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Really?

The more time passes, the more it seems he is pissing away millions of dollars.

A guy who plays the style of football he plays should have taken a Josh Allen-type deal at least a year ago. I don't see how anyone can disagree with this. He's flirting with this coming year on the franchise tag being his last. Why not lock up another $125 million? The risk is not worth the reward. Seems like a classic case of him thinking he's invincible.

Lamar should reach out to RG3 - a really smart guy who has been down this sort of road.
IDK his fallback position is to simply take the $130 mil, or so, fully guaranteed the Ravens already offered him. They won't say no if he says he's good with that now (they'll probably even fudge the numbers a little to make it seem like he got more to the media but whatever).

He literally has not hurt his potential earnings at all.

The problem truly arises if Jackson takes the $130 guaranteed, with whatever the theoretical max $$ and years are, and next year the Bengals give Burrow $250 mil fully guaranteed. Burrow is a better QB but that's not the issue.

It's not next year for Burrow. He should be extended this offseason, same as Herbert and Hurts.
They are eligible for extension but, particularly for Burrow & Herbert the teams have two more seasons before they will be forced to make hard decisions about contracts and tags.

Hurts doesn't fall under the 5th year option model so the Eagles are next in line to have to grapple with the full guarantee issue.

But most situations with apparent elite QBs on rookie contracts result in an extension in the offseason after their third NFL season. It happened for Mahomes and Allen, plus Murray, who isn't even elite IMO. I'm sure there are others I am forgetting. It didn't happen for Jackson for whatever reason, but I fully expect it to happen for Herbert and Burrow. I expect their teams to first exercise their 5th year options, then agree to terms on a contract extension beyond year 5. That will allow deferring the big cap hits until year 6 (2025)... again, as happened with Mahomes and Allen.
I know. But the Chargers and Bengals have two years of wiggle room, that's all. They are not obligated to make the offer this season.

My point is it will become a legitimate issue if/when Burrow gets his fully guaranteed contract.

Frankly it's disappointing that so few people are talking about Hurts, Burrows and Herbert ATM.

I don't think it's a bad idea for Lamar to try and wait out those deals. And it wouldn't be a bad idea for Hurts, Burrow and Herbert to try and outwait Lamar.
 
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Worried wrong word. I do enjoy negotiating though and the appeals to emotion just make me cringe.

I want to see him get and take the best deal he can. Kinda sucks watching a guy just lose out on millions through pure ignorance.I
I'm not sure if this is true tho. There's a possibly flawed assumption that that an agent helps one get the best deal. This was brought up in one of my economics classes way back when. What's the difference between 1% of $200 million and 1% of $190 million, when the more lucrative deal requires hours and hours of phone calls, emails, and leg work. An agent probably tries to get his client to sign the $190 million offer.

I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation. And it's not because an agent would help him get more money.
Hours of leg work for 100 grand? An agent wouldn't do that?
Cmon. You must also have talked about the fact that agents will get more clients in the future if they get their current clients the best deal.
It seems like you guys were having a flawed discussion.
 
So I'm just popping back in the thread here, for some reason it keeps moving w/o that much new news going on. Three things:

1) Why do people still think he's asking for a fully guaranteed deal? He rescinded that like a couple months ago.
2) Why do people think you can't do cap gymnastics even IF he wanted a fully guaranteed deal? DeShaun Watson's deal just got reworked to save $36 million.
3) Looking at you, Bill Barnwell: Why would Lamar be terrible for the Jets (who are reduced to paying Aaron Rodgers' friends just to convince him to go there) but great for the Colts (who could just simply draft one of Stroud/Young/Richardson)? What weird logic is that?
Great points across the board
 
Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL
Career earnings:

Josh Allen $85M
Lamar Jackson $33M

They are in same draft class. 😳

Last two years since eligible for new deal:

Josh Allen $67M
Lamar Jackson $25M

He's never making up that difference.

It's just sad. It really is.

(not directed at you, but just replying to the tweet)

Not sure why it is sad.

The Bill hadn't won a playoff game since 1995, and have won four since Josh Allen came to Buffalo. Allen has been mostly a great postseason QB (17 TDs and 4 INTs in eight playoff games).

The Ravens, meanwhile, won two Super Bowls in the two decades prior to Lamar Jackson's arrival. John Harbaugh has been the coach for the Ravens for 15 years. In the 10 years before Lamar arrived, he went 10-5 in the playoffs with a Super Bowl win. Since Lamar's arrival, Harbaugh is 1-4 in the playoffs. Jackson has not been a good postseason QB.

I know, I know, Lamar won an MVP once! Great. Congrats. And he has one playoff win in five seasons. The playoffs are where QBs prove their true worth.
 
Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL
Career earnings:

Josh Allen $85M
Lamar Jackson $33M

They are in same draft class. 😳

Last two years since eligible for new deal:

Josh Allen $67M
Lamar Jackson $25M

He's never making up that difference.

It's just sad. It really is.

(not directed at you, but just replying to the tweet)

Not sure why it is sad.

The Bill hadn't won a playoff game since 1995, and have won four since Josh Allen came to Buffalo. Allen has been mostly a great postseason QB (17 TDs and 4 INTs in eight playoff games).

The Ravens, meanwhile, won two Super Bowls in the two decades prior to Lamar Jackson's arrival. John Harbaugh has been the coach for the Ravens for 15 years. In the 10 years before Lamar arrived, he went 10-5 in the playoffs with a Super Bowl win. Since Lamar's arrival, Harbaugh is 1-4 in the playoffs. Jackson has not been a good postseason QB.

I know, I know, Lamar won an MVP once! Great. Congrats. And he has one playoff win in five seasons. The playoffs are where QBs prove their true worth.

I agree with all you say here, but it's possible Tucker was simply saying it is sad that Jackson could/would not agree to terms on a contract extension two years ago... or even one year ago, which would have enabled him to be much closer in those earnings he posted.
 
Last edited:
Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL
Career earnings:

Josh Allen $85M
Lamar Jackson $33M

They are in same draft class. 😳

Last two years since eligible for new deal:

Josh Allen $67M
Lamar Jackson $25M

He's never making up that difference.

It's just sad. It really is.

(not directed at you, but just replying to the tweet)

Not sure why it is sad.

The Bill hadn't won a playoff game since 1995, and have won four since Josh Allen came to Buffalo. Allen has been mostly a great postseason QB (17 TDs and 4 INTs in eight playoff games).

The Ravens, meanwhile, won two Super Bowls in the two decades prior to Lamar Jackson's arrival. John Harbaugh has been the coach for the Ravens for 15 years. In the 10 years before Lamar arrived, he went 10-5 in the playoffs with a Super Bowl win. Since Lamar's arrival, Harbaugh is 1-4 in the playoffs. Jackson has not been a good postseason QB.

I know, I know, Lamar won an MVP once! Great. Congrats. And he has one playoff win in five seasons. The playoffs are where QBs prove their true worth.

I agree with all you say here, but it's possible Tucker was simply saying it is sad that Jackson could/would not agree to terms on a contract extension two years ago... or even one year ago, which would have enabled him to be much close in those earnings he posted.
Yes, this. I was just typing this out and saw your response come across.

He's not talking about Allen deserving more, he's talking about Lamar not handling this correctly and costing himself a ton of money.

I would add I'm not sure where Ross is coming up with his numbers but I feel fairly certain that's what he is referencing. He's not trying to dog on Lamar, he's sympathetic.
 
Only to watch it fall apart because Lamar doesn't understand NFL contracts at all. Nor how to work with other GMs to make something happen. He's in so far over his head he doesn't even know it
That's pretty insulting to his character without knowing anything at all about how his negotiating sessions have gone so far. I do not think "running QB" means "stupid man".

Where did I say him being a running QB makes him a "stupid man"? You won't find it because I did not. What does running, passing, etc have to do with brains?

Not did I insult his character. It is not insulting to his character to say he's in over his head. So would I be. So would most of us be. I'm no lawyer. I deal with contracts all the time, but I have no idea about NFL contracts because it is a speciality. I'd be smart enough to hire an expert to negotiate my $250M+ contract though. And I justified my opinion on him being in over his head with his academic and contractual negotiation training. Which for him is: 1) bad and 2) none.
You didn't say that and you didn't mean that, and I know that. You and I have talked many times, mostly about woeful Commander things, and I know you well enough to know that. I was reacting to the recurring diminishing of Jackson's ability to represent himself as though he's dumb. On top of the "he's in over his head without an agent" posts here, there have been numerous posts insulting him as "RB pretending to be QB", mostly in the early part of the thread. Implied in that characterization is the old-but-still-present stereotype that QB's are smart and RB's are dumb. Leremy Tunsil and Jacoby Brisset negotiated their own contracts this year without agents. Nobody has accused them of being dumb, or has said they needed an agent because they were in over their head.

But I see my post came across as accusing you of that kind of thinking so I apologize. You're not in any way like that.
And hopefully we can keep talking about how Dan Snyder is a piece of ****.
 
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Worried wrong word. I do enjoy negotiating though and the appeals to emotion just make me cringe.

I want to see him get and take the best deal he can. Kinda sucks watching a guy just lose out on millions through pure ignorance.I
I'm not sure if this is true tho. There's a possibly flawed assumption that that an agent helps one get the best deal. This was brought up in one of my economics classes way back when. What's the difference between 1% of $200 million and 1% of $190 million, when the more lucrative deal requires hours and hours of phone calls, emails, and leg work. An agent probably tries to get his client to sign the $190 million offer.

I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation. And it's not because an agent would help him get more money.
Your understanding of the level of skill and professionalism required to be good at negotiating appears to be lacking. Phone calls and emails lol.

LJ is in those rooms with one arm tied behind his back.

He has already lost out on at least one year's pay.

eta - I see someone posted Josh Allen vs LJ above... EXACTLY. Lamar Jackson, representing himself, is $42m behind his peer already.
 
You're worth what someone is prepared to pay you.

It seems to me that LJax has over estimated his worth. Comparisons to other QB deals are largely irrelevant at this stage. He should employ someone to help him and focus on what he's good at. He clearly isn't good at negotiating contracts.
 
Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL
Career earnings:

Josh Allen $85M
Lamar Jackson $33M

They are in same draft class. 😳

Last two years since eligible for new deal:

Josh Allen $67M
Lamar Jackson $25M

He's never making up that difference.

It's just sad. It really is.

(not directed at you, but just replying to the tweet)

Not sure why it is sad.

The Bill hadn't won a playoff game since 1995, and have won four since Josh Allen came to Buffalo. Allen has been mostly a great postseason QB (17 TDs and 4 INTs in eight playoff games).

The Ravens, meanwhile, won two Super Bowls in the two decades prior to Lamar Jackson's arrival. John Harbaugh has been the coach for the Ravens for 15 years. In the 10 years before Lamar arrived, he went 10-5 in the playoffs with a Super Bowl win. Since Lamar's arrival, Harbaugh is 1-4 in the playoffs. Jackson has not been a good postseason QB.

I know, I know, Lamar won an MVP once! Great. Congrats. And he has one playoff win in five seasons. The playoffs are where QBs prove their true worth.

I agree with all you say here, but it's possible Tucker was simply saying it is sad that Jackson could/would not agree to terms on a contract extension two years ago... or even one year ago, which would have enabled him to be much close in those earnings he posted.
Yes, this. I was just typing this out and saw your response come across.

He's not talking about Allen deserving more, he's talking about Lamar not handling this correctly and costing himself a ton of money.

I would add I'm not sure where Ross is coming up with his numbers but I feel fairly certain that's what he is referencing. He's not trying to dog on Lamar, he's sympathetic.
Makes sense, but this isn’t “sad” in any meaningful way. Putting aside that earning $25 million to play a game isn’t sad, Lamar was a much later pick - still within the first round but everyone knows there’s a huge difference in value between the 7 and 32nd pick. More so, is there any NFL GM who would take Lamar over Allen? Or even equally? Maybe that’s just coaching but it’s reality.

I do believe LJ deserves more. But he’s not equal to Allen.
 
Only to watch it fall apart because Lamar doesn't understand NFL contracts at all. Nor how to work with other GMs to make something happen. He's in so far over his head he doesn't even know it
That's pretty insulting to his character without knowing anything at all about how his negotiating sessions have gone so far. I do not think "running QB" means "stupid man".

Where did I say him being a running QB makes him a "stupid man"? You won't find it because I did not. What does running, passing, etc have to do with brains?

Not did I insult his character. It is not insulting to his character to say he's in over his head. So would I be. So would most of us be. I'm no lawyer. I deal with contracts all the time, but I have no idea about NFL contracts because it is a speciality. I'd be smart enough to hire an expert to negotiate my $250M+ contract though. And I justified my opinion on him being in over his head with his academic and contractual negotiation training. Which for him is: 1) bad and 2) none.
You didn't say that and you didn't mean that, and I know that. You and I have talked many times, mostly about woeful Commander things, and I know you well enough to know that. I was reacting to the recurring diminishing of Jackson's ability to represent himself as though he's dumb. On top of the "he's in over his head without an agent" posts here, there have been numerous posts insulting him as "RB pretending to be QB", mostly in the early part of the thread. Implied in that characterization is the old-but-still-present stereotype that QB's are smart and RB's are dumb. Leremy Tunsil and Jacoby Brisset negotiated their own contracts this year without agents. Nobody has accused them of being dumb, or has said they needed an agent because they were in over their head.

But I see my post came across as accusing you of that kind of thinking so I apologize. You're not in any way like that.
And hopefully we can keep talking about how Dan Snyder is a piece of ****.
Why do you keep trying to equate these situations? On what planet is Jacoby Brissett signing a 1 yr. $8 mil contract relevant at all to Lamar's situation?

The reason nobody has accused them of being dumb, or has said they needed an agent because they were in over their head, is precisely because it's an entirely different situation. Those guys have signed contracts, Lamar doesn't even appear to have gotten close in 2 years of negotiating without one. There is plenty of evidence that Lamar is in over his head in this much, much more complicated situation than Jacoby Brissett was in his much, much simpler one. No need to get so defensive.
 
2) Why do people think you can't do cap gymnastics even IF he wanted a fully guaranteed deal? DeShaun Watson's deal just got reworked to save $36 million.
Not sure what you mean and which team is doing the cap gymnastics. If it's a team trying to get Lamar to sign an offer sheet, if their offer is really light on the first-year cap hit and not a boatload of guaranteed money, BAL will almost certainly match it. If you mean BAL trying to re-sign him, then sure, they can set up a minimal first-year cap hit and play the kick-the-cap-hit-down-the-line strategy like the Browns are starting to do with Watson.

But what won't work as cap gymnastics is a scenario where a team signs Jackson to an offer sheet, the Ravens match, and then the Ravens trade him. Baltimore would take a gynormous cap hit that they could not avoid. The best way for the Ravens to trade Lamar is to get him to agree to the franchise tag and then trade him to another franchise. The Ravens would not take any cap hit, and his new team could work out a new deal with him. However, that new team would have to be $32 million under the cap at the time of the trade, because they would be importing Jackson on a one-year deal for the guaranteed franchise tag number. They could manipulate that in a new deal, but first they would need to bring him in under the salary cap. As of now, the only team currently with that much cap space is Chicago.
That's what I think Lamar is willing to do. However, he's not signing unless a team is ready to trade for him and the Ravens themselves have no wish/incentive TO trade him. To me that's why Lamar made that tweet during the league meetings as a way of throwing down the gauntlet.

With the amount of cap gymnastics and teams who are amazing at it (as @Chaka put it, Saints had went from $22-27 million over the cap to $25 million UNDER in like a week), you'd think a team would at least inquire about his services. Unfortunately, not many teams will pursue it because it's pretty clear with the chunk of young QBs available for new deals, the owners don't want the guaranteed money train to leave the station. People can call it "hive mind"/collusion/whatever, but it makes no sense that no one wants to look into getting a QB as explosive as he is and a league MVP; especially with the stupid contracts average QBs have been getting.

EDIT: Initially I thought the wild card would be the Jets, but apparently they're all in on Aaron Rodgers. The Commanders will have new ownership by the draft (two $6 billion dollar offers just got submitted), and maybe their stance will change once the new owners come in? :oldunsure:
We here at the Ministry would like to hire Frank as our agent
"Cap Gymnastics" gotta write that one down, good description

-Excellent point btw and I have been saying similar things, if teams can erase a $50M OTC deficit in the off season with a couple restructures, then it's difficult to understand why teams don't jump out there when we see them make moves for other players.
 
I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation.
Can you point to an example were the Ravens created anything of the sort you are saying?
We could start with the fact they were "flummoxed" that he wouldn't take the field at the end of the season

-THE RAVENS TRIED TO RUIN JACKSON'S REPUTATION when. they insinuated he was healthy enough to take the field but because they didn't cave to his demands that Jackson tried to get back at them by not taking the field end of year...that was the scenario the RAVENS put out there thru the media

They tricked fans into believing that Jackson just sat there healthy on the sidelines while the team struggled without him in December and January
This is exactly why some folks don't like Jackson, they think he did not represent the Ravens and NFL shield properly

Personally, I don't buy that Jackson sat on the sidelines healthy but Baltimore would like you to believe that he took himself off the field.
 
Last edited:
He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.
List of NFL MVP winners over the past 20 years:
17 QBs won NFL MVP
Of those 17 NFL MVP QBs, a few won multiple awards.
Patrick Mahomes - 2 times
Aaron Rodgers - 4 times
Tom Brady - 2 times
Peyton Manning - 4 times
Of those 17 MVP QBs, only 7 different QBs won NFL MVP over the past 20 years.
Of those 7 only 3 currently are playing in the league.

Over the same time frame, past 20 years there have been 239 QBs drafted.
Over the same time frame, of those 239 drafted QBs only 5 won the NFL MVP award.
That breaks down to .020% chance of drafting a league MVP QB over two decades of drafting.
0.020% is far lower than 5.000%.
 
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Worried wrong word. I do enjoy negotiating though and the appeals to emotion just make me cringe.

I want to see him get and take the best deal he can. Kinda sucks watching a guy just lose out on millions through pure ignorance.I
I'm not sure if this is true tho. There's a possibly flawed assumption that that an agent helps one get the best deal. This was brought up in one of my economics classes way back when. What's the difference between 1% of $200 million and 1% of $190 million, when the more lucrative deal requires hours and hours of phone calls, emails, and leg work. An agent probably tries to get his client to sign the $190 million offer.

I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation. And it's not because an agent would help him get more money.
Your understanding of the level of skill and professionalism required to be good at negotiating appears to be lacking. Phone calls and emails lol.

LJ is in those rooms with one arm tied behind his back.

He has already lost out on at least one year's pay.

eta - I see someone posted Josh Allen vs LJ above... EXACTLY. Lamar Jackson, representing himself, is $42m behind his peer already.
You're assuming things and misrepresenting what I said.
 
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Worried wrong word. I do enjoy negotiating though and the appeals to emotion just make me cringe.

I want to see him get and take the best deal he can. Kinda sucks watching a guy just lose out on millions through pure ignorance.I
I'm not sure if this is true tho. There's a possibly flawed assumption that that an agent helps one get the best deal. This was brought up in one of my economics classes way back when. What's the difference between 1% of $200 million and 1% of $190 million, when the more lucrative deal requires hours and hours of phone calls, emails, and leg work. An agent probably tries to get his client to sign the $190 million offer.

I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation. And it's not because an agent would help him get more money.
BS. 1% of 10 million is 100K....easily worth a little bit of "legwork" for the agent.

It makes more sense to argue why players (especially QBs) want to nickel dime their clubs and leave them so strapped they can't afford to put players around them. I think thats at least a small part of why Brady won so many bowls...he didn't go for every penny he could get.

QB's in the modern NFL are being paid too much compared to the rest of the team. Top QBs are killing their own chances at winning championships in many cases.
 
2) Why do people think you can't do cap gymnastics even IF he wanted a fully guaranteed deal? DeShaun Watson's deal just got reworked to save $36 million.
Not sure what you mean and which team is doing the cap gymnastics. If it's a team trying to get Lamar to sign an offer sheet, if their offer is really light on the first-year cap hit and not a boatload of guaranteed money, BAL will almost certainly match it. If you mean BAL trying to re-sign him, then sure, they can set up a minimal first-year cap hit and play the kick-the-cap-hit-down-the-line strategy like the Browns are starting to do with Watson.

But what won't work as cap gymnastics is a scenario where a team signs Jackson to an offer sheet, the Ravens match, and then the Ravens trade him. Baltimore would take a gynormous cap hit that they could not avoid. The best way for the Ravens to trade Lamar is to get him to agree to the franchise tag and then trade him to another franchise. The Ravens would not take any cap hit, and his new team could work out a new deal with him. However, that new team would have to be $32 million under the cap at the time of the trade, because they would be importing Jackson on a one-year deal for the guaranteed franchise tag number. They could manipulate that in a new deal, but first they would need to bring him in under the salary cap. As of now, the only team currently with that much cap space is Chicago.
That's what I think Lamar is willing to do. However, he's not signing unless a team is ready to trade for him and the Ravens themselves have no wish/incentive TO trade him. To me that's why Lamar made that tweet during the league meetings as a way of throwing down the gauntlet.

With the amount of cap gymnastics and teams who are amazing at it (as @Chaka put it, Saints had went from $22-27 million over the cap to $25 million UNDER in like a week), you'd think a team would at least inquire about his services. Unfortunately, not many teams will pursue it because it's pretty clear with the chunk of young QBs available for new deals, the owners don't want the guaranteed money train to leave the station. People can call it "hive mind"/collusion/whatever, but it makes no sense that no one wants to look into getting a QB as explosive as he is and a league MVP; especially with the stupid contracts average QBs have been getting.

EDIT: Initially I thought the wild card would be the Jets, but apparently they're all in on Aaron Rodgers. The Commanders will have new ownership by the draft (two $6 billion dollar offers just got submitted), and maybe their stance will change once the new owners come in? :oldunsure:
We here at the Ministry would like to hire Frank as our agent
"Cap Gymnastics" gotta write that one down, good description

-Excellent point btw and I have been saying similar things, if teams can erase a $50M OTC deficit in the off season with a couple restructures, then it's difficult to understand why teams don't jump out there when we see them make moves for other players.
Because smart GMs realize that doing too much gymnastics too often eventually puts you in cap hell. It's one thing to free up 5 or even 10 million to sign somebody...reasonable gambles can be made for that. But 30-35 million???? Nope....it isn't wise to punt that much, it WILL bite you
 
Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL
Career earnings:

Josh Allen $85M
Lamar Jackson $33M

They are in same draft class. 😳

Last two years since eligible for new deal:

Josh Allen $67M
Lamar Jackson $25M

He's never making up that difference.

It's just sad. It really is.

(not directed at you, but just replying to the tweet)

Not sure why it is sad.

The Bill hadn't won a playoff game since 1995, and have won four since Josh Allen came to Buffalo. Allen has been mostly a great postseason QB (17 TDs and 4 INTs in eight playoff games).

The Ravens, meanwhile, won two Super Bowls in the two decades prior to Lamar Jackson's arrival. John Harbaugh has been the coach for the Ravens for 15 years. In the 10 years before Lamar arrived, he went 10-5 in the playoffs with a Super Bowl win. Since Lamar's arrival, Harbaugh is 1-4 in the playoffs. Jackson has not been a good postseason QB.

I know, I know, Lamar won an MVP once! Great. Congrats. And he has one playoff win in five seasons. The playoffs are where QBs prove their true worth.
I think a lot of NFL teams will take their chances in the Playoffs since so many teams don't regularly visit the Playoffs
For some teams, just getting into the Playoffs would be an achievement
The Ravens should just let him go/trade him, they won 2 Super Bowls prior to him being there, they'll be fine.
 
2) Why do people think you can't do cap gymnastics even IF he wanted a fully guaranteed deal? DeShaun Watson's deal just got reworked to save $36 million.
Not sure what you mean and which team is doing the cap gymnastics. If it's a team trying to get Lamar to sign an offer sheet, if their offer is really light on the first-year cap hit and not a boatload of guaranteed money, BAL will almost certainly match it. If you mean BAL trying to re-sign him, then sure, they can set up a minimal first-year cap hit and play the kick-the-cap-hit-down-the-line strategy like the Browns are starting to do with Watson.

But what won't work as cap gymnastics is a scenario where a team signs Jackson to an offer sheet, the Ravens match, and then the Ravens trade him. Baltimore would take a gynormous cap hit that they could not avoid. The best way for the Ravens to trade Lamar is to get him to agree to the franchise tag and then trade him to another franchise. The Ravens would not take any cap hit, and his new team could work out a new deal with him. However, that new team would have to be $32 million under the cap at the time of the trade, because they would be importing Jackson on a one-year deal for the guaranteed franchise tag number. They could manipulate that in a new deal, but first they would need to bring him in under the salary cap. As of now, the only team currently with that much cap space is Chicago.
That's what I think Lamar is willing to do. However, he's not signing unless a team is ready to trade for him and the Ravens themselves have no wish/incentive TO trade him. To me that's why Lamar made that tweet during the league meetings as a way of throwing down the gauntlet.

With the amount of cap gymnastics and teams who are amazing at it (as @Chaka put it, Saints had went from $22-27 million over the cap to $25 million UNDER in like a week), you'd think a team would at least inquire about his services. Unfortunately, not many teams will pursue it because it's pretty clear with the chunk of young QBs available for new deals, the owners don't want the guaranteed money train to leave the station. People can call it "hive mind"/collusion/whatever, but it makes no sense that no one wants to look into getting a QB as explosive as he is and a league MVP; especially with the stupid contracts average QBs have been getting.

EDIT: Initially I thought the wild card would be the Jets, but apparently they're all in on Aaron Rodgers. The Commanders will have new ownership by the draft (two $6 billion dollar offers just got submitted), and maybe their stance will change once the new owners come in? :oldunsure:
We here at the Ministry would like to hire Frank as our agent
"Cap Gymnastics" gotta write that one down, good description

-Excellent point btw and I have been saying similar things, if teams can erase a $50M OTC deficit in the off season with a couple restructures, then it's difficult to understand why teams don't jump out there when we see them make moves for other players.
Because smart GMs realize that doing too much gymnastics too often eventually puts you in cap hell. It's one thing to free up 5 or even 10 million to sign somebody...reasonable gambles can be made for that. But 30-35 million???? Nope....it isn't wise to punt that much, it WILL bite you
Am I to believe that 30 GMs not named the Bucs and Rams turn to their owners with satisfied looks on their faces?
They actually say to the owners "See, I told you the Bucs and Rams were going to be in cap hell, thank goodness I had the sense to not go ALL IN"
Any owner that would accept that as a solid answer should be forced to sell the team. They don't have the balls to go all in and win a Title.
We can sugarcoat but some fan bases are being totally ripped off from competing for anything meaningful because they have a bean counter for a GM and Owner when none of them are losing money.

Say it with me everyone...IT'S PREPOSTEROUS!
;)
 
Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL
Career earnings:

Josh Allen $85M
Lamar Jackson $33M

They are in same draft class. 😳

Last two years since eligible for new deal:

Josh Allen $67M
Lamar Jackson $25M

He's never making up that difference.

It's just sad. It really is.
Man, to me that tweet says it all.

Whoever is advising Lamar has really screwed this kid.
And this is partly why he wants to separate from Baltimore.
I'm not sure if they had someone in the front office who has/had a good relationship with him, simply sit down and show him in black and white what has unfolded so far.

I still maintain that Baltimore WAS NEVER extending him after 36 months. I haven't seen anything that says they tried to extend when they legally could.
3 years in, Jackson's numbers and stats were ungodly, he won an NFL MVP so that's the proof it happened.
Baltimore did not extend him and was happy letting him play things out as his own agent thinking they were getting the better end of things.

Regardless of how this turns out, the Ravens IMHO are making themselves look pretty evil vs Lamar Jackson who is just exercising his right to represent himself.
Jackson says he never asked for the Watson deal.

If he signed a 3yr/$130M+ fully guaranteed, I would have tipped my cap and figured he feels he can get another big fat contract in 24 months with the next extension.
Maybe in 24-36 months he gets another 3 yr fully guaranteed deal and in essence he would have gotten what he wanted all along.

What did Ross Tucker make in his NFL career? He feels righteous looking down and being condescending on Lamar Jackson, that's how it reads, lot of intelligence bashing throughout the media and social platforms, that's what is really sad.
 
You're worth what someone is prepared to pay you.
/thread.

It's like Dave Mason sang: "There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy, there's only you and me and we just disagree"
Yeah, sort of. People are comparing what Josh Allen got on a team that was happy to extend him to Lamar on a team that was not as eager. Jackson hasn't ever been a fully unrestricted free agent, so it's not like he had a chance to freely sign anywhere. Even now, there are all sorts of strings attached to him negotiating and signing with another team, so he can't really test the waters to determine what someone is willing to pay him. Guys like Watson and Wilson had their initial teams willing and able to trade them. The Ravens haven't expressed that they are interested in that.

So far, in Lamar's case, he's only worth what the team that drafted him is willing to pay him . . . and at this point be forced to accept it. IMO, it's too soon to bash Jackson until we see how things play out. Maybe he gets a long-term deal with the Ravens. Maybe he does a sign and trade and his new team gives him three trucks stuffed with money. Maybe he plays on the franchise tag in BAL and goes through this again next year. It's hard to bash an outcome that hasn't happened yet.
 
Last edited:
Only to watch it fall apart because Lamar doesn't understand NFL contracts at all. Nor how to work with other GMs to make something happen. He's in so far over his head he doesn't even know it
That's pretty insulting to his character without knowing anything at all about how his negotiating sessions have gone so far. I do not think "running QB" means "stupid man".

Where did I say him being a running QB makes him a "stupid man"? You won't find it because I did not. What does running, passing, etc have to do with brains?

Not did I insult his character. It is not insulting to his character to say he's in over his head. So would I be. So would most of us be. I'm no lawyer. I deal with contracts all the time, but I have no idea about NFL contracts because it is a speciality. I'd be smart enough to hire an expert to negotiate my $250M+ contract though. And I justified my opinion on him being in over his head with his academic and contractual negotiation training. Which for him is: 1) bad and 2) none.
You didn't say that and you didn't mean that, and I know that. You and I have talked many times, mostly about woeful Commander things, and I know you well enough to know that. I was reacting to the recurring diminishing of Jackson's ability to represent himself as though he's dumb. On top of the "he's in over his head without an agent" posts here, there have been numerous posts insulting him as "RB pretending to be QB", mostly in the early part of the thread. Implied in that characterization is the old-but-still-present stereotype that QB's are smart and RB's are dumb. Leremy Tunsil and Jacoby Brisset negotiated their own contracts this year without agents. Nobody has accused them of being dumb, or has said they needed an agent because they were in over their head.

But I see my post came across as accusing you of that kind of thinking so I apologize. You're not in any way like that.
And hopefully we can keep talking about how Dan Snyder is a piece of ****.
Why do you keep trying to equate these situations? On what planet is Jacoby Brissett signing a 1 yr. $8 mil contract relevant at all to Lamar's situation?

The reason nobody has accused them of being dumb, or has said they needed an agent because they were in over their head, is precisely because it's an entirely different situation. Those guys have signed contracts, Lamar doesn't even appear to have gotten close in 2 years of negotiating without one. There is plenty of evidence that Lamar is in over his head in this much, much more complicated situation than Jacoby Brissett was in his much, much simpler one. No need to get so defensive.
Have the Ravens pulled their offer off the table?
(like the Giants have done with Saquon)
 
I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation.
Can you point to an example were the Ravens created anything of the sort you are saying?
We could start with the fact they were "flummoxed" that he wouldn't take the field at the end of the season

-THE RAVENS TRIED TO RUIN JACKSON'S REPUTATION when. they insinuated he was healthy enough to take the field but because they didn't cave to his demands that Jackson tried to get back at them by not taking the field end of year...that was the scenario the RAVENS put out there thru the media

They tricked fans into believing that Jackson just sat there healthy on the sidelines while the team struggled without him in December and January
This is exactly why some folks don't like Jackson, they think he did not represent the Ravens and NFL shield properly

Personally, I don't buy that Jackson sat on the sidelines healthy but Baltimore would like you to believe that he took himself off the field.
This is all false and has nothing to do with the question I asked.
 
Only to watch it fall apart because Lamar doesn't understand NFL contracts at all. Nor how to work with other GMs to make something happen. He's in so far over his head he doesn't even know it
That's pretty insulting to his character without knowing anything at all about how his negotiating sessions have gone so far. I do not think "running QB" means "stupid man".

Where did I say him being a running QB makes him a "stupid man"? You won't find it because I did not. What does running, passing, etc have to do with brains?

Not did I insult his character. It is not insulting to his character to say he's in over his head. So would I be. So would most of us be. I'm no lawyer. I deal with contracts all the time, but I have no idea about NFL contracts because it is a speciality. I'd be smart enough to hire an expert to negotiate my $250M+ contract though. And I justified my opinion on him being in over his head with his academic and contractual negotiation training. Which for him is: 1) bad and 2) none.
You didn't say that and you didn't mean that, and I know that. You and I have talked many times, mostly about woeful Commander things, and I know you well enough to know that. I was reacting to the recurring diminishing of Jackson's ability to represent himself as though he's dumb. On top of the "he's in over his head without an agent" posts here, there have been numerous posts insulting him as "RB pretending to be QB", mostly in the early part of the thread. Implied in that characterization is the old-but-still-present stereotype that QB's are smart and RB's are dumb. Leremy Tunsil and Jacoby Brisset negotiated their own contracts this year without agents. Nobody has accused them of being dumb, or has said they needed an agent because they were in over their head.

But I see my post came across as accusing you of that kind of thinking so I apologize. You're not in any way like that.
And hopefully we can keep talking about how Dan Snyder is a piece of ****.
Why do you keep trying to equate these situations? On what planet is Jacoby Brissett signing a 1 yr. $8 mil contract relevant at all to Lamar's situation?

The reason nobody has accused them of being dumb, or has said they needed an agent because they were in over their head, is precisely because it's an entirely different situation. Those guys have signed contracts, Lamar doesn't even appear to have gotten close in 2 years of negotiating without one. There is plenty of evidence that Lamar is in over his head in this much, much more complicated situation than Jacoby Brissett was in his much, much simpler one. No need to get so defensive.
Have the Ravens pulled their offer off the table?
(like the Giants have done with Saquon)
None of us know the details. We do know that those 2 guys have signed contracts and Lamar has not, and I think it's safe to say that Lamar's situation is far more complex than Brissett's making it a poor analogy.
 
Maybe we could start a GoFundMe page for Jackson to help bridge the gap for all the money he's lost over the years.

I was laughed at for bringing up compound interest when the off season 1st started as a sticking point 36 months vs 60 months and counting now for Jackson
I brought it up more as a tool where Jackson could be very angry with the team when he is watching other QBs extended and making money on their money
Jackson still has more money than most of us in here, incredibly naive to think he doesn't understand how money actually works, he went to college, he's not stupid.

But then as soon as Ross Tucker tweets...and he's twisting those numbers around quite a bit.
If I were a team wanting Jackson's services, I might try a 3 yr/$150M guaranteed and see what happens
It would appear that Jackson is over the Baltimore Ravens, they run the risk of matching and then he either sits out or leaves them "flummoxed" again throughout the season.

I think both sides need to work together to separate from each other.
The idea of Jackson crawling back with his tail between his legs is a pipe dream for those calling him stupid and questioning Jackson's IQ
That last remark is aimed at Ross Tucker, not anyone specific on the message boards so again don't take it personally.
 
He's 26 and he was MVP in 2019. The odds of either of those picks being better than the more recent version of Lamar are far higher than 5% IMO, and even if neither was it could still be the better side of the deal.
List of NFL MVP winners over the past 20 years:
17 QBs won NFL MVP
Of those 17 NFL MVP QBs, a few won multiple awards.
Patrick Mahomes - 2 times
Aaron Rodgers - 4 times
Tom Brady - 2 times
Peyton Manning - 4 times
Of those 17 MVP QBs, only 7 different QBs won NFL MVP over the past 20 years.
Of those 7 only 3 currently are playing in the league.

Over the same time frame, past 20 years there have been 239 QBs drafted.
Over the same time frame, of those 239 drafted QBs only 5 won the NFL MVP award.
That breaks down to .020% chance of drafting a league MVP QB over two decades of drafting.
0.020% is far lower than 5.000%.
No one with the first name Lamar OR the last name Jackson has ever won a 2nd MVP award. 0% is far lower than .02%.

See, I can pull completely irrelevant made up numbers out of my *** too.
 
You're worth what someone is prepared to pay you.
/thread.

It's like Dave Mason sang: "There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy, there's only you and me and we just disagree"
Except that 32 NFL teams can control a young man and his career in the NFL, it's not truly a free market.
4 years, fine, 5th year, fine, now they franchise tag and can do it again next year, that's like 7-8 years where a player legally has to play for their "Owner"
And then some guys are free after 2-3-4 years in the NFL and go wherever they want or whoever will pay them.

I definitely do not agree with you about
/Thread

You ain't no good guy, I ain't no bad guy, it's GB and MoP and we just disagree
Woo Woo Woo
:lol:
 
Last edited:

The Athletic's Jeff Howe reports the Patriots will not trade for Lamar Jackson this offseason.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft said on Monday that Jackson, who has requested a trade from the Ravens, was interested in joining the team. But Howe said a league source knocked down any and all Lamar-to-New England talk on Tuesday. Howe suggested "the Patriots could test Jackson’s true desire to link up, attempt to convince him to accept a far more affordable deal and offer the Ravens a trade package — say, three first-round picks — to get the Ravens onboard with such a move." That, however, is unlikely. The Pats join every other NFL team in having curiously little interest in acquiring the 26-year-old former MVP quarterback. Mac Jones remains the favorite to start for the Patriots in 2023.
RELATED:
SOURCE: The Athletic
Mar 29, 2023 at 9:44 AM ET
 
I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation.
Can you point to an example were the Ravens created anything of the sort you are saying?
We could start with the fact they were "flummoxed" that he wouldn't take the field at the end of the season

-THE RAVENS TRIED TO RUIN JACKSON'S REPUTATION when. they insinuated he was healthy enough to take the field but because they didn't cave to his demands that Jackson tried to get back at them by not taking the field end of year...that was the scenario the RAVENS put out there thru the media

They tricked fans into believing that Jackson just sat there healthy on the sidelines while the team struggled without him in December and January
This is exactly why some folks don't like Jackson, they think he did not represent the Ravens and NFL shield properly

Personally, I don't buy that Jackson sat on the sidelines healthy but Baltimore would like you to believe that he took himself off the field.
This is all false and has nothing to do with the question I asked.
No it's not false that the Ravens thru the media said they were "Flummoxed" that Jackson didn't take the field
That's a fact Meno, i didn't make it up
Doesn't make my POV absolute but that little word I keep quoting is the Ravens, not me.

Just want to be clear on that because you keep saying nothing I post matters, that's not a platform my friend, that's nothing different than pundits putting down Jackson's intelligence when the game IS NOT OVER yet...I didn't see where teams have actively pulled out Post-Draft

I think many teams would like to add some pieces and then when they go past the Draft try and make an offer with '24 and '25 capital vs April 2023
You add in "Cap Gymnastics" ty @The Frankman and you have all the tools to create a narrative that simply hasn't had the opportunity to play out yet.
I would imagine the Ravens as they inch closer to the Draft, they're going to feel the heat and reality of teams wanting to get more involved with Jackson

This chess match is far from over IMHO
 
Last edited:
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Worried wrong word. I do enjoy negotiating though and the appeals to emotion just make me cringe.

I want to see him get and take the best deal he can. Kinda sucks watching a guy just lose out on millions through pure ignorance.I
I'm not sure if this is true tho. There's a possibly flawed assumption that that an agent helps one get the best deal. This was brought up in one of my economics classes way back when. What's the difference between 1% of $200 million and 1% of $190 million, when the more lucrative deal requires hours and hours of phone calls, emails, and leg work. An agent probably tries to get his client to sign the $190 million offer.

I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation. And it's not because an agent would help him get more money.
BS. 1% of 10 million is 100K....easily worth a little bit of "legwork" for the agent.

It makes more sense to argue why players (especially QBs) want to nickel dime their clubs and leave them so strapped they can't afford to put players around them. I think thats at least a small part of why Brady won so many bowls...he didn't go for every penny he could get.

QB's in the modern NFL are being paid too much compared to the rest of the team. Top QBs are killing their own chances at winning championships in many cases.
Your paragraph is spot on imo. Especially the non elite QBs. I think we’ll see more backlash against that, more teams trying to follow the 49ers path - they tried to get an elite guy by trading up but really succeed by having better players around him and their QB can be more of an accurate passer, game manager to a degree, instead of carrying the entire team on his shoulders. Other than Mahomes, that usually doesn’t work.
 

The Athletic's Jeff Howe reports the Patriots will not trade for Lamar Jackson this offseason.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft said on Monday that Jackson, who has requested a trade from the Ravens, was interested in joining the team. But Howe said a league source knocked down any and all Lamar-to-New England talk on Tuesday. Howe suggested "the Patriots could test Jackson’s true desire to link up, attempt to convince him to accept a far more affordable deal and offer the Ravens a trade package — say, three first-round picks — to get the Ravens onboard with such a move." That, however, is unlikely. The Pats join every other NFL team in having curiously little interest in acquiring the 26-year-old former MVP quarterback. Mac Jones remains the favorite to start for the Patriots in 2023.
RELATED:
SOURCE: The Athletic
Mar 29, 2023 at 9:44 AM ET
About once a day there seems to be a new team that has to make the announcement they are tapping out or they were never considering Jackson as a potential option
It's hard to not interpret that as a clear sign Jackson's market value isn't what he or many others thought it was.

And yet it still feels very suspicious to me
And I would think it smells foul to others as well.
 
Last edited:

The Athletic's Jeff Howe reports the Patriots will not trade for Lamar Jackson this offseason.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft said on Monday that Jackson, who has requested a trade from the Ravens, was interested in joining the team. But Howe said a league source knocked down any and all Lamar-to-New England talk on Tuesday. Howe suggested "the Patriots could test Jackson’s true desire to link up, attempt to convince him to accept a far more affordable deal and offer the Ravens a trade package — say, three first-round picks — to get the Ravens onboard with such a move." That, however, is unlikely. The Pats join every other NFL team in having curiously little interest in acquiring the 26-year-old former MVP quarterback. Mac Jones remains the favorite to start for the Patriots in 2023.
RELATED:
SOURCE: The Athletic
Mar 29, 2023 at 9:44 AM ET
I have heard other beat guys discussing this, and they aren't sure where Howe got this. Other reports and opinions suggest that NE is not actively pursuing Jackson at this time, people won't comment, or they won't commit to Mac Jones. There's enough percolating in NE for me to conclude they are at least discussing it internally. It depends on how people frame it. Sure, I agree as commented above that NE will not be shipping three first round picks and give Lamar $250M. But that doesn't mean that's what the trade would involve and that's the contract Jackson would end up with. Things could change after the draft. BAL might have to take less than they want to off-load Lamar. Still a work in progress and a long way until opening day.
 

The Athletic's Jeff Howe reports the Patriots will not trade for Lamar Jackson this offseason.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft said on Monday that Jackson, who has requested a trade from the Ravens, was interested in joining the team. But Howe said a league source knocked down any and all Lamar-to-New England talk on Tuesday. Howe suggested "the Patriots could test Jackson’s true desire to link up, attempt to convince him to accept a far more affordable deal and offer the Ravens a trade package — say, three first-round picks — to get the Ravens onboard with such a move." That, however, is unlikely. The Pats join every other NFL team in having curiously little interest in acquiring the 26-year-old former MVP quarterback. Mac Jones remains the favorite to start for the Patriots in 2023.
RELATED:
SOURCE: The Athletic
Mar 29, 2023 at 9:44 AM ET
About once a day there seems to be a new team that has to make the announcement they are tapping out or were never even considering Jackson as a potential option
It's hard to not interpret that as a clear sign Jackson's market value isn't what he or many others thought it was.

And yet it still feels very suspicious to me
And I would think it smells foul to others as well.
As I just posted above, the devil is in the details. A source said NE is not giving BAL three first round picks for Jackson and the guaranteed contract Lamar wants. The conclusion is that NE is out on Jackson. But no one from NE has said they are not considering Jackson. There's a distinct difference there. IMO, the headline is totally misleading.
 
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Worried wrong word. I do enjoy negotiating though and the appeals to emotion just make me cringe.

I want to see him get and take the best deal he can. Kinda sucks watching a guy just lose out on millions through pure ignorance.I
I'm not sure if this is true tho. There's a possibly flawed assumption that that an agent helps one get the best deal. This was brought up in one of my economics classes way back when. What's the difference between 1% of $200 million and 1% of $190 million, when the more lucrative deal requires hours and hours of phone calls, emails, and leg work. An agent probably tries to get his client to sign the $190 million offer.

I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation. And it's not because an agent would help him get more money.
BS. 1% of 10 million is 100K....easily worth a little bit of "legwork" for the agent.

It makes more sense to argue why players (especially QBs) want to nickel dime their clubs and leave them so strapped they can't afford to put players around them. I think thats at least a small part of why Brady won so many bowls...he didn't go for every penny he could get.

QB's in the modern NFL are being paid too much compared to the rest of the team. Top QBs are killing their own chances at winning championships in many cases.
Your paragraph is spot on imo. Especially the non elite QBs. I think we’ll see more backlash against that, more teams trying to follow the 49ers path - they tried to get an elite guy by trading up but really succeed by having better players around him and their QB can be more of an accurate passer, game manager to a degree, instead of carrying the entire team on his shoulders. Other than Mahomes, that usually doesn’t work.
The Bengals are having a yard sale this weekend in the parking lot to help "cobble" together more of Joe Burrow's extension

-i already have a dedicated Bengals thread as you know...I'm just waiting for any sign that talks have stalled or there's even a delay on Burrow's extension that drags out into July
:stirspot:
 
It didn't happen for Jackson for whatever reason

Because he wanted a 3% discount on fees?
3%, 2%, 1% nobody is really sure but this is the tagline everyone is using to label Jackson an incompetent Self-Agent

We at the Ministry would like to see the entire game unfold before passing judgement
However there is some merit in at least commenting on the hole created by not having an extension 24 months ago, even 12 months ago.
Who is at fault in this? I think it's a little bit of both but the Ravens had the opportunity to extend before Watson and Murray were given outlandish deals.

There also seems to be overwhelming support for the Ravens playing some hardball with Jackson and not giving in to his demands
 
3%, 2%, 1% nobody is really sure but this is the tagline everyone is using to label Jackson an incompetent Self-Agent

We at the Ministry would like to see the entire game unfold before passing judgement
However there is some merit in at least commenting on the hole created by not having an extension 24 months ago, even 12 months ago.
Who is at fault in this? I think it's a little bit of both but the Ravens had the opportunity to extend before Watson and Murray were given outlandish deals.

There also seems to be overwhelming support for the Ravens playing some hardball with Jackson and not giving in to his demands

I see this as a total failure on Lamar Jackson and his representation not to get this done at least a year ago and maybe two. He had the most leverage at that time and he will never have that again due to injury concerns and now the Watson contract.

I would love to hear the true story behind all of this, though we never will. The whole thing is fascinating as heck.
 
Last edited:
Ross Tucker @RossTuckerNFL
Career earnings:

Josh Allen $85M
Lamar Jackson $33M

They are in same draft class. 😳

Last two years since eligible for new deal:

Josh Allen $67M
Lamar Jackson $25M

He's never making up that difference.

It's just sad. It really is.
It could be worse if Jackson doesn't get a new contract out of this off-season, either from the ravens or another team via trade, as currently his only offer to get paid this year is the non-exclusive tag of $32,000,000 which leaves another approximately $15,000,000 or so on the floor in not receiving the exclusive tag. Lamar the agent is costing Lamar the player all kinds of cash and certainly more than 1-3% of an extension.
 
Why is everybody so worried about Lamar negotiating his own contract? He's living rent-free in your brains.
Worried wrong word. I do enjoy negotiating though and the appeals to emotion just make me cringe.

I want to see him get and take the best deal he can. Kinda sucks watching a guy just lose out on millions through pure ignorance.I
I'm not sure if this is true tho. There's a possibly flawed assumption that that an agent helps one get the best deal. This was brought up in one of my economics classes way back when. What's the difference between 1% of $200 million and 1% of $190 million, when the more lucrative deal requires hours and hours of phone calls, emails, and leg work. An agent probably tries to get his client to sign the $190 million offer.

I think there's a reason the Ravens are the ones creating all this hum-bug over LJ not having representation. And it's not because an agent would help him get more money.
this is true.

added work and aggravation would also come from chasing this holy grail of a fully guaranteed contract - which does nothing to add to the agents take home cash.
Agents would rather stay within the status quo and not push the NFLPA fully guaranteed agenda. Let someone else break the barrier.
quick- who was Lamar's agent who got that fully guaranteed deal for him -- and should be the guy Lamar ran to for representation
 
3%, 2%, 1% nobody is really sure but this is the tagline everyone is using to label Jackson an incompetent Self-Agent

We at the Ministry would like to see the entire game unfold before passing judgement
However there is some merit in at least commenting on the hole created by not having an extension 24 months ago, even 12 months ago.
Who is at fault in this? I think it's a little bit of both but the Ravens had the opportunity to extend before Watson and Murray were given outlandish deals.

There also seems to be overwhelming support for the Ravens playing some hardball with Jackson and not giving in to his demands

I see this as a total failure on Lamar Jackson and his representation not to get this done at least a year ago and maybe two. He had the most leverage at that time and he will never have that again due to injury concerns and now the Watson contract.

I would love to hear the true story behind all of this, thought we never will. The whole thing is fascinating as heck.
What happens if a team makes an offer not even close to what Murray got?
If Jackson is done with the Ravens and requested a trade like a Deshaun Watson situation, we've already seen owners get down on 1 knee to try an acquire a guy with 20+ open sexual harassment lawsuits, what happens when Jackson sits on the franchise tag and won't show up for OTAs and training camps?
Maybe Jackson won't play for the Ravens any more, no matter what they offer him because he does understand the amount of money they have cost him

We know they offered 3/$133M or about that going into last season and Jackson turned off the discussion talks for the '22 season.
Is that something we can all agree on, is that factual?

Another thought is why don't teams test the waters?
What happens if Indy as an example, Indy slides an offer very similar to what the Ravens offered last summer and Jackson has requested a trade, what happens?
The Ravens have 5 days to match but what happens if the Ravens do try and match the Colts offer?
Does that make Jackson an automatic Baltimore Raven in 2023? Do you see where I'm going here? I'm not sure I do myself
What I'm saying is, can only 1 team make that offer? Does Jackson have to sign that offer first and then the Ravens have 5 days?

The Colts at No 4 are looking at Will Levis and Anthony Richardson?
Trey Lance was the No 3 QB off the board, his 1st 2 seasons vs Jackson's, is there even a need to double check the stats?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top