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QB Tua Tagovailoa, MIA (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Long Ball Larry
- Start date
Bossman
Footballguy
So when he's cleared to play, just cut him?
I'm not sure how else you could prevent him from practicing ...and taking up a roster spot.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
keyword = cleared.
Bossman
Footballguy
He's easily concussed for whatever reason.
"I don't think they should clear him to play again ...even if he wants to"
This might be the only way to keep him off the field.
Then I think a better way to word it would be;
"I don't think they should clear him to play again ...even if he wants to"
This might be the only way to keep him off the field.
TartanLion
Footballguy
From the outside we can’t know the intricacies of it all.
As someone alluded to above, his chin seems cracked and the lights seem to go off on hits that just wouldn’t do the same to someone else. Some people just have tougher chins, but it could also be that he has several concussions in high school/college and he’s further down the road than we realise.
Chuck Liddell had an iron chin, until he didn’t, then the lights used to go out when someone sneezed at him. You can see the effects of the damage very clearly now in his speech.
And yet Alistair Overeem has had a very long career and knocked out several times over but shows no signs of anything and he’s pretty deep into his life really
The human body and brain are just unique to every individual. Only the doctors and Tua himself will know the actual score and the answer
As someone alluded to above, his chin seems cracked and the lights seem to go off on hits that just wouldn’t do the same to someone else. Some people just have tougher chins, but it could also be that he has several concussions in high school/college and he’s further down the road than we realise.
Chuck Liddell had an iron chin, until he didn’t, then the lights used to go out when someone sneezed at him. You can see the effects of the damage very clearly now in his speech.
And yet Alistair Overeem has had a very long career and knocked out several times over but shows no signs of anything and he’s pretty deep into his life really
The human body and brain are just unique to every individual. Only the doctors and Tua himself will know the actual score and the answer
Bossman
Footballguy
For whatever reason, Tua is very prone to concussion.
Doesn't seem like it was much of a hit last night.
Doctors need to figure out why he concusses so easy and if it can be fixed.
Maybe he's still not fully healed from the last one... or his brain is too loose in his skull.
Maybe he needs 2 full seasons off to let his brain fully heal. Maybe there is no fixing it.
Either way, I'd say he certainly shouldn't play again this season.
Doesn't seem like it was much of a hit last night.
Doctors need to figure out why he concusses so easy and if it can be fixed.
Maybe he's still not fully healed from the last one... or his brain is too loose in his skull.
Maybe he needs 2 full seasons off to let his brain fully heal. Maybe there is no fixing it.
Either way, I'd say he certainly shouldn't play again this season.
this is true. I am pretty sure its part of the contract. and if I were in tuas shoes, I'd be fully insured due to the risks.Players have insuranceYou're probably right. He only retires if his family has ultimate power over this decision. He has 2 small children and is close to his parents.
He already has earned 73 million, generational wealth for most people. Spoptrac has this caveat about the $124 mill - "barring a custom settlement."
>>If he's medically cleared to return to football, but opts to retire, he will forego the remaining $124M guaranteed (barring a custom settlement).<<
x.com
x.com
Idk what percent he'd get and people would probably say what company would insure him after the previous concussions but ...it's not night n day as presented
Team likely has an element of insurance too (they would be dumb not to). which is why they likely will allow him to keep much of the signing bonus. or they will keep him on IR for a long time before he 'officially' retires. (if it comes down to that)
Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
I thought it was odd when I read it too... possibly alluding to an emotional reaction from Tua?odd quote. I'd be interested to see the video.x.com
once you have a serious concussion you will always be prone to it. Brain injuries are cumulative. so the more concussions you have had, the more each additional hit to the head hurts you. a person who has had multiple concussions can be knocked out with a hit that wouldnt even give a normal person a concussion. This is one of the reasons why concussions are so dangerous and have been such a big thing lately. the medical documentation on this has been absolutely overwhelming.
That hit Tua took didnt actually look vicious. I watched it a couple times. but he went down awkwardly with his neck bent so when contact was made there was nothing to cushion the head from the hit. a normal person may have had a low grade concussion from that or no concussion at all. but because hes had a couple more serious ones (and likely some that were never documented) it affected him in a larger way than would affect a normal person.
on that note, I will also point out, Tua didnt seem himself for much of this game. I am wondering if he didnt get his bell rung earlier in the game (maybe a super low grade concussion) and then when he took this it put him over the edge.
not sure. I did miss parts of the early part of the game as the kids were rambunctious so I had to leave the game at a couple points to go deal with them.
I'd give some credit to the BUF D. Tua's 1st int hit the WR Dubose, the 2nd INT was likely a bad route by Chosen, the 3rd INT was pressure by Espenesa and a failed attempt to throw the pass away. There was a good pass on a slant to Hill with great coverage by the DB. Twitter video showed overall very good coverage and scheme on Hill and Waddle. Oliver single handedly disrupted many plays.
Tua may have thought he was Josh Allen after an earlier 11 yard run for a 1st down.
McDaniel's end of the half play calling was bizarre, unless he thought Tua wasn't 100% as you suggest.
I think this is a great callout. Was thinking something similar about him just looking a little off (esp that last interception where he just threw it up there) before the concussion.
TampaMike19
Footballguy
Was it a couple years ago in that Green Bay game where he can back to play (2022) and like threw some of the worst interceptions you’ll ever see? That wouldn’t be the first time this happened to him where he went from precise to just awful in a flash. Or we are reaching here and he overcompensates a little with the pressure.
1. As far as I can tell, Adams mental state was attributed to CTE and not multiple concussions which are different conditions. Lots of concussions can lead to CTE, but you can get concussions without developing CTE. You can also get CTE without getting multiple concussions.
2. Unlike alcohol intoxication and subsequent impairment, the link between multiple chronic hits and development of CTE is not as direct. Everyone gets drunk if they drink enough. Not every NFL player gets CTE. It's not clear why some are more susceptible and others aren't.
3. If you're saying that the league should be responsible for what anyone who develops CTE does, they would have to shut down the whole league (not just Tua). There is probably a tenable ethical argument for that, but it's not going to happen.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
I know money is secondary, but for all who are saying he should just take the guaranteed money and retire it isn't that simple. I read an article last night that if he is medically cleared to play at some point down the road, and he walks away, then he loses future monies and a portion of his signing bonus.
Why does Tua suffer his third documented concussion and everyone is talking about retiring him but then you got someone like Pat Friermuth who has also had 3 documented concussions in his NFL career and he just signed an extension last week?
I'll answer my own question and say I think it's based on the optics, the scary looking way that Tua goes into the fencing position but does that actually mean he suffers worse from concussions then other players or his body has a different but not worse reaction?
I'll answer my own question and say I think it's based on the optics, the scary looking way that Tua goes into the fencing position but does that actually mean he suffers worse from concussions then other players or his body has a different but not worse reaction?
Todem
Footballguy
Only the teams, players and doctors know these kind of answers.
I agree with you. The optics are a huge part of the hot takes calling for retirement. Heck I think he is should retire.
But it’s not for us or anyone else but Tua and is family and his doctors to decide.
Period.
Todem
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
From my understanding the fencing pose means a more severe concussion. Compound that with a run-of-the-mill hit that caused it and there is plenty of concern.
A lot of the meditation and zen people discuss living in the present. A lot of coaches preach this too.yeah, seems like it needs context ... because people ARE very concerned about his future ... as a player and as a person.odd quote. I'd be interested to see the video.x.com
It just sounds odd for me til I pause and rethink...oh ok.
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Future monies, sure. But I'm not sure the Dolphins (or the league) want to deal with the PR of him returning part of the signing bonus. They absolutely could, but they'd probably give it some thought.
"Fencing position concussions take 2-5 years to fully recover from outside the sports world" but if you play sports....this has been a point of contention/discussion amongst athletes for many of the reasons already mentioned above.
Idk of anyone retiring from it, probably has happened, but...in and of itself that's a tough discussion point to debate.
Idk of anyone retiring from it, probably has happened, but...in and of itself that's a tough discussion point to debate.
Todem
Footballguy
Injury settlement will absolutely happen.
I do know that Ross is a class act. He will take care of Tua if it comes to this.
Nah not necessary.
He would lose it.
As I tried to say earlier, he's probably got insurance and the Dolphins already do.
Losing signing bonus and remaining salary will happen but then he'll get 49mil from team insurance and whatever his personal insurance pays out.
So it's just...think more disability type for regular people. Yeah you lose your salary but here comes disability checks
It doesn't really work like that. You run tests and ask about symptoms. There's no "scrutiny/legal ramifications" to be had unless you're lying. In fact, NOT clearing him to play if his medicals check out would lead to the "scrutiny/legal ramifications" you speak of.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That is my understanding too. Tua did not simply "have his bell rung" like so many other players we've seen. He's been severely concussed four times now -- I'm including the "back injury" in my count because we all know that was a serious concussion and we should stop pretending otherwise.
I also agree that we should be alarmed by the fact that he got severely concussed by just whacking his head against another player's chest. That should not cause injury.
I don't get this take at all. He ran into a wall at like 15mph and jacked his neck to the side. That was a big hit and I think plenty of guys go out from that.
I'm with McDaniels in that it's a bad look for anyone but doctors and Tua to be speculating on ending his career.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
On the scale of NFL hits, it was like a 2/10 IMO. I might be dead but I'm a plobby 48 year old with like half of my original parts still working right.
Hard disagree. That torque on his neck was gnarly AF.
Dizzy
Footballguy
I've stated this before, Tua just does not come across as being very "athletic" compared to others on the field. Every hit, every tackle is a breath-holding violent act.
I agree with the previous post on this... hit didn't look that vicious... on anyone else but Tua.
TLEF316
Footballguy
I'm obviously not a doctor.....but with the gray area around CTE(and our inability to diagnose it while someone is alive) , I have to believe that doctors (especially those contracted by the NFL/teams) have some ability to say "I dont think you should play football anymore" even if there's no visible damage to the brain or traditional concussion symptoms.
I mean if that same doctor says "I don't see any visible brain damage. you're fine" (which may be technically true based on the tests and data presented to him) and then he goes out there and dies from one last relatively minor hit, I can't imagine that doctor just gets to go about his day afterwards.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Yeah, because its Tua. Every play where he incurs contact he looks like a Mike Tyson opponent (pre-Buster Douglas).
Bossman
Footballguy
Jacked neck doesn't cause a concussion. I believe it's when the brain hits the skull due to a sudden impact.
If you look at his first 3 concussions, they didn't seem that terribly violent either. The first one anyway, he literally gets pushed backwards, falls down backwards and his helmet hits the grass.
Certainly he's hitting his head but It just seems that other players are getting hit harder and not going lights out like he does.
Tua 3 concussions
I'd agree. I dont think hes back for at least 3 weeks and for me that's likely the best case scenario.
obviously I'm not a doctor, but I cant see them clearing him in only 1 week when hes had prior concussions of a more serious nature. Even 2 weeks is likely pushing it an awful lot.
if this concussion turns out to be anything more than a mild concussion hes gonna be out a while. potentially a long while.
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Max Power
Footballguy
I wouldnt call 6ft 190lb Damar Hamlin a "Wall". He's on the smaller side for NFL players.
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gump
Footballguy
I’ve seen Tua play as much as anyone from High School on…IMO he's got to hang it up.
He was one of the most dynamic, talented QBs I’ve ever seen…until his Soph year when he hurt his knee. Hobbled thru some amazing games until he couldn’t. Then he came back strong…and broke his hip (nose and concussed). All avoidable. He’s just reckless and can’t sense defenders. He’ll undoubtedly get hurt again, and it’ll just keep escalating.
He was one of the most dynamic, talented QBs I’ve ever seen…until his Soph year when he hurt his knee. Hobbled thru some amazing games until he couldn’t. Then he came back strong…and broke his hip (nose and concussed). All avoidable. He’s just reckless and can’t sense defenders. He’ll undoubtedly get hurt again, and it’ll just keep escalating.
massraider
Footballguy
eighsse2
Footballguy
Odd history of scary injuries in games -- especially primetime -- between CIN, BUF, MIA, last three years.
Tua likely concussed vs Buffalo.
Tua badly concussed vs Cincinnati on TNF.
Damar Hamlin cardiac arrest vs Cincinnati on MNF.
Tua badly concussed by Damar Hamlin on TNF.
Tua likely concussed vs Buffalo.
Tua badly concussed vs Cincinnati on TNF.
Damar Hamlin cardiac arrest vs Cincinnati on MNF.
Tua badly concussed by Damar Hamlin on TNF.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Tua has about 174 million reasons not to retire. He could, but he will be cleared of the concussion at some point allowing Miami to "get out from under" the contract. If he retires, most of that money is forfeit unless someone actually declares he can no longer play.
So, Tua will be in a Dolphin uniform until 2026, which is when Miami can release him and take a 50 Million dollar cap hit but get a 9 million dollar cap savings on the 2026 cap.
That means Miami is in the QB market this upcoming draft, regardless of what happens. Cheaper to bring in a rookie than a vet and if Tua can play, cool, you Jordan Love the rook. If not, then it's cousins and Penix.
Streetduck
Footballguy
He also has 167 million guaranteed due to injury.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Yes, but that assumes he is never cleared to play again. That likely will not be the case.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That sir, depends on how serious the concussion is.
if its a Grade 3 Concussion he may never be cleared.
Grade 2 is dicey but hes likely out for a good portion (if not all) of this season.
if its a grade 1 or 0 he probably does play again, but based on what I saw on the field, its not likely a grade 0. I think its most likely a grade 2 concussion. but hard to say for sure.
With Grade 0 you generally dont lose consciousness. its what people often say 'he got his bell rung' some dont even consider this a true concussion.
but the main rankings are here (see link)
Signs and Symptoms of the 3 Different Grades of Concussion -
What’s especially tricky about concussions is that it’s possible to not know that you actually had one, such as in the case of a low-grade concussion.
www.carrushealth.com
Runkle
Footballguy
Tua could have worn the Guardian Cap, but chose not to. No idea why, but for whatever reason, he didn't want to. I could guess, I'm sure we all could come up with a reason why he didn't, but he didn't and now here we are. He appears to be, for whatever that reason is, willing to go into the record books as the first player to die on the field. That's what it feels like watching this. It may be 'wrong' of me to suggest he retire, fine if you think that, but it's my choice as a fan to choose not to watch him threaten his own life, repeatedly. I just wish him a long and healthy life, and I wish he would value the same.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Great point. I forgot about that damn hat. With his history of head injuries sure seems like he should have been wearing one. Who knows if it would have helped anyways, but I would have been wearing one. Imo
