Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I agree with this. If the cap is available and you have a history why wouldn't you wear it?
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QB Tua Tagovailoa, MIA (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Long Ball Larry
- Start date
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Insanity to me - this was mentioned in the game topic and I was dumbfounded by that reveal.
gump
Footballguy
Because he’s been recklessly putting himself in terrible positions to get hit since he was a teen. And paying for it physically. No telling how many he’s actually had.
FantasyGuru24
Footballguy
It’s not guaranteed if a doctor clears him and he decides to retire .. he would have to forfeit that money .. it’s only guaranteed if a doctor doesn’t clear him and then he has to retire
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Um, ok. he could also just sit on the sidelines and collect his pay and take up a roster spot. Plenty of guys upset about their contract do it. Tua is no different. Just say he has a hamstring injury for 3 years
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Gonna be interesting how this would get handled if Tua is actually done playing football. The NFL did settle a 765 million CTE lawsuit. Would the optics deem that it's handled differently because it's concussion instead of knee that forced his retirement?
Keep in mind, if a doctor clears him and he goes out and has a big problem right away, there is an awful lot of liability for that doctor to be sued. potentially more than his insurance will cover. I dont think a doctor will take the matter lightly. if hes cleared, the doctor will probably want to be sure. I suspect the process to get him back playing again will not be a quick one. my expectation is that the NFL will be very careful with how they handle this.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Agree - this would be negotiated.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
If Tua were to decide it's best to step away from the field and retire, Dolphins owe him $90M
If Tua tries to clear concussion protocol and Miami has to shut him down to keep him off the field, basically if Tua wants to continue his career, Miami owes him $125M
And finally I would say in an era where TV broadcasters make a fortune, I can see ESPN hiring Tua and sitting him next to Nick Saban on Gameday
No matter what he decides, Tua has made life changing money, he has 2 kids now and a wife, he needs to take a long step back and figure out what he wants
If Tua tries to clear concussion protocol and Miami has to shut him down to keep him off the field, basically if Tua wants to continue his career, Miami owes him $125M
And finally I would say in an era where TV broadcasters make a fortune, I can see ESPN hiring Tua and sitting him next to Nick Saban on Gameday
No matter what he decides, Tua has made life changing money, he has 2 kids now and a wife, he needs to take a long step back and figure out what he wants
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If they keep adding guys to gameday, the desk is going to reach the halfway line
ETA - some irony if he was wear the head gear pick each week
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Rich Eisen suggested that Tua retire and become the QB of the United States Olympic Flag Football team, prepare for it in 2028
Go win the first gold medal for this event
Interesting POV
Go win the first gold medal for this event
Interesting POV
phins may also have an insurance policy on Tua. I'd be surprised if they didnt. Might be a benefit to them to keep him on IR until the contract runs down in either situation.
but we dont have insight into that side of it but one way or another I suspect that will also influence their decision.
Ironman2131
Footballguy
Yeah, there's no way to know until the dust settles. But I agree, there may be some language within the contract that deals with this scenario.
Regardless of what happens, the Fins as a franchise need to take steps this offseason (if not sooner) towards the future. With all the big salaries it was known that the window was somewhat limited, so it would make sense for the team to draft a young QB and shed some of the contracts for older players (either through trade or by cutting them). Maybe invest more into the offensive line so that whoever is the QB has more than half a second back there.
None of this can really happen right now, so all the team can do is support Tua in whatever decision he makes. I just know that watching him get hurt again was gut wrenching as a fan of him and the team. And despite the potential that him retiring would make the team irrelevant again, at least we'll know he'll be healthy.
Regardless of what happens, the Fins as a franchise need to take steps this offseason (if not sooner) towards the future. With all the big salaries it was known that the window was somewhat limited, so it would make sense for the team to draft a young QB and shed some of the contracts for older players (either through trade or by cutting them). Maybe invest more into the offensive line so that whoever is the QB has more than half a second back there.
None of this can really happen right now, so all the team can do is support Tua in whatever decision he makes. I just know that watching him get hurt again was gut wrenching as a fan of him and the team. And despite the potential that him retiring would make the team irrelevant again, at least we'll know he'll be healthy.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Dolphins considering ruling star QB Tua Tagovailoa out for the SEASON
EXCLUSIVE: The Miami Dolphins quarterback suffered a third serious head injury of his career in the loss to the Buffalo Bills on Thursday night, and was immediately ruled out of the game.
Sounds like Miami is leaning towards shutting him down for the season
Why is scandal-ridden Dr. David Chao a top NFL injury expert?
Dr. David Chao often appears on Pat McAfee's show and other sports programs on ESPN and other outlets despite a troubling past.
awfulannouncing.com
I cringe when people ask him about concussions. I've moved on. He's gotta live his life and I see him on many football sites with injuries but concussions...
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
If I’m Tua I’m offering my neurologist 15% to call it a career. Generational $, never have to get hit again, and might even remember my wife and kids in my old age?
Sign me up for that.
well, I would argue if Tua does return an investment in the O line may keep him around longer too. so this is likely the direction the team SHOULD go. but whether the team actually does this may be a different matter. Even if Tua retires, sticking a rookie behind a good line is better for the kids development. So regardless of which scenario you are looking at, an investment in the O line is not a bad thing.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
There are much worse O-lines out there. Hollow argument.
I find it funny how many opinions are being offered here. none of us know what the Neurologist has found but we all seem to have the best advice.
but at the same time, he is in a position where this decision shouldnt be over dollars and cents. it should be about what kind of quality of life does he want to have moving forward. if hes one concussion away from being a vegetable, I really hope he doesnt try to come back. This is a storyline I never want to see with him or any other NFL player.
but people can be stubborn. and I get it. you wanted to play in the NFL all your live and now you need to walk from it. of course you dont wanna do it. its human nature to want to be on top.
either way, This scenario is why I dont have a lot of shares in the Miami Pass game in my drafts. I think I got Waddle in one draft when he fell further than he should. I am already regretting that one as I knew this was a risk. potentially a greater risk than was reflected in the ADP of the Phins offensive players.
but we sometimes take our chances anyway.
kylechoffman
Footballguy
JJ should replace Brady in the booth. That was solid.x.com
x.com
JJ Watt with a great explanation
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
JJ to the booth, Brady to the Dolphins.JJ should replace Brady in the booth. That was solid.x.com
JJ Watt with a great explanation
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Mike White coming back
jtd13
Footballguy
There are no worse interior lines.
Eichenberg has been much better since moving to RG from C, and Brewer has been solid addition at C. The OL's biggest problem has been RT Austin Jackson, fresh off making Von Miller look like the Von Miller of old, rather than just old Von Miller. Of all Miami's extensions, Jackson was the weirdest one to me. He has 1 season out of 4 where he wasn't awful (2023) and even then, was just ok.
There are at least 5 worse interior lines than Miami. Vikings, Chargers, Raiders, Rams (due to injuries) and of course the Giants.
Could probably make arguments for TB and Seattle as well.
According to Barry Jackson via he'd be giving up $124M if he's medically cleared and retired. If he's not medically cleared ever, which has never happened btw and really not worth bringing up, he'd be able to retire and collect the whole $124M.
As for the Dolphins angle if he retires after being medically cleared the Dolphins would only have $33.6m dead money they could spread out over 25 and 26. Not bad relatively speaking. If Dolphins cut him after this year, before March 14th, they'd have $50M in dead money.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Barry Jackson is WRONG
Think about what he' s saying. Tua says OK I'll retire and he forfeits the money...that's never gonna happen under any circumstances.
Doctors don't clear him and he keeps trying to come back $125M like you said
-It's in Miami's best interest he opts to retire and they cut him a check for $90-$100M whatever the number
Stephen Ross won't blink an eye or even make an angry fart while he writes the check to Tua, I promise
He gets money no matter which way he decides and all things being equal, why wouldn't he try to get on the field?
Knowing he won't be cleared so he can get max money when they shut him down
So Miami is going to kiss his *** and try and guide him into retirement and not because Ross wants to save $100M, he's not MIKE BROWN
Ross isn't trying to trick anyone into anything, the man is worth close to $10B, he would like the salary cap to double, believe me
All that said, I just want Tua to do what's best for him
If Miami were smart they would eat every bad contract next season, load up on UDFAs for 1 year and start planning for 2026
They could get a lot of this behind them if they don't try and slow bleed to death...
Like trying to get Tua to take his money over 3-4-5 years, just cut him a check, start Thompson and move on
I'm sure I won't agree with you but what is he wrong about?
Here is the whole article, it's well sourced. Again tell me where he is wrong and source it.
Whatever happens from here, there will be financial consequences for Tagovailoa and the Dolphins. Two big takeaways involving the financial part of the story:
1). Tagovailoa would be potentially be giving up at least $124 million by retiring. So that’s difficult to envision unless his symptoms surprisingly don’t disappear over a long period. And even then, the financially prudent decision would be to continue collecting his money until doctors clear him. (An independent neurologist and a team doctor must agree that Tagovailoa is ready for full practices and contact before he can enter the final phases of concussion protocol.)
2). The Dolphins releasing him next offseason is unrealistic financially even if he misses substantial time this season.
Among the financial details that have come to light in the wake of Tagovailoa’s concussion Thursday:
▪ The contract contains no clauses or exceptions or waivers for concussions, per Pro Football Talk’s Mike Florio.
▪ According to overthecap.com’s Jason Fitzgerald, insurance covers $49.3 million of the $167.1 million guaranteed for injury in Tagovailoa’s contract. He would be due $167.1 million if he’s never cleared to play but doesn’t retire.
▪ Per spotrac.com’s Michael Ginnitti, $43 million of the $167 million that’s guaranteed for injury already has been paid to Tagovailoa.
Ginnitti said if Tagovialoa is “medically cleared to return to football, but opts to retire, he will forego the remaining $124M guaranteed (barring a custom settlement). If he’s medically forced into retirement, he has a right to collect the $124M remaining.”
Based on past Miami Herald interviews with medical experts regarding Tagovailoa and what would happen if he gets another concussion, it’s unlikely that Tagovailoa would be forced to medically retire or need to retire unless his concussion symptoms don’t go away. (The Dolphins have not said if Tagovailoa is experiencing any symptoms but have said he’s alert and communicative with teammates.)
David Chao, the former Chargers team physician, told Outkick’s Armando Salguero that “if his symptoms clear quickly, it won’t mean he’s at the end of his career when he doesn’t have a choice. If the symptoms are prolonged, then yes, this is likely going to end his career.”
▪ As Ginnitti noted, if Tagovailoa passes a physical in March — and the Dolphins nevertheless released him (an unlikely scenario) — they would be “on the hook” for only the $50 million he’s due in 2025.
His $54 million salary for 2026 would become guaranteed March 14, 2025, and the Dolphins could move to release him before that date, and avoid that 2026 salary, if he passes a physical next March. So if Tagovailoa passes a physical, it’s unlikely he would be released.
Tagovailoa’s $31 million salary in 2027 and $41.4 million salary in 2028 are not guaranteed.
▪ If the Dolphins released Tagovailoa without a post-June 1 designation next offseason, Miami would have a dead cap hit of $132.2 million that could be spread across 2025 and 2026.
If Tagovailoa were to be released with a post-June 1 designation, the Dolphins would have a dead cap hit of $83.6 million that could be taken in 2025 or spread across 2025 and 2026.
That was the risk of signing Tagavailoa to the four-year, $212 million extension when the Dolphins merely could have gone year to year with him through 2026, albeit with larger cap hits than the ones in the early years of his new contract.
The Dolphins have only $4 million in 2025 cap space at the moment. Sustaining an enormous cap hit for releasing Tagovailoa — and then having the money to sign a replacement other than a rookie or cheap journeyman — isn’t realistic.
▪ Tagovailoa’s cap hit is $9.5 million this season and $39.4 million if he’s on the team next year.
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jtd13
Footballguy
Eich was putrid on Thursday, so are you talking about week 1? It looked exactly like last year against Philly. Anytime he starts he's one of the worst starting ol in the league. It's so clear anytime they play an above average DT that he's in over his head.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I don't give a **** what he writes for the Palm Beach Post, I'm saying that Ross will NEVER EVER pinch Tua or try to avoid paying him, the dude is mega wealthy and not afraid to flaunt it
I said what I said, I have my sources, $90M and $125M which what you said as well, not sure why we gotta have a tug of war
-In the end people can believe whatever they want, that's the world we live in
What is it you're trying to prove? It sounds like you're trying to insinuate the Dolphins are looking for a way out of the contract
And I'm saying Ross will cut him a check tomorrow if he can somehow get out of salary cap hell
It's been eluded to on TV and Radio that somehow the Dolphins can pay him and it not count against the salary cap...THAT SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE to ME!
Miami owes him a lot of money, bottom line and he's gonna get everything coming to him
If I were Tua, I'd take the $90M and be on my way and thank everyone
Up to him which cards he plays
-I'm honestly not sure what we're debating, what's the point where Barry is directing and has you following him?
Miami Herald and those beat writers are #1, Sun Sentinel and the Ft Laud Cronies are #2 and the Palm Beach Post is a DISTANT 3, they don't even show local Miami games on CBS up here
The Prime game was blacked out in West Palm Beach, he writes for a paper that no real Miami fan reads with any gusto
Barry bad mouths most of the franchises and resents the way sports has evolved, he needs to retire
So no lies then, got it.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Meno, you're a great contributor here, please don't take it the wrong way
Here is a good source for Dolphins things, Alain is highly respected among Dolphin fans
x.com
twitter.com
I also would highly recommend Andy Slater, he's very well connected and leaked the Hill "Cop-Cam" footage
x.com
twitter.com
I would add those two when you crosscheck Phins things
-And I just feel strongly Ross will do the right thing and be happy to make Tua wealthy for a long time
I hate Ross, not a fan and the fruit has never arrived from anything he does for the team
That said, he's not shy with the checkbook
I thought he played fine against Buffalo and was very good in week 1. He didn't give up a single pressure against Buffalo, and most of the rushing success came behind him and Brewer. I do agree he's been pretty terrible to this point in his career, but maybe RG is his position after mostly playing C before.
The problems against Buffalo were RT and LG. Even LT (Lamb) played pretty well after Armstead went out. Austin Jackson got whopped by Von Miller, and the Jones/Cotton duo got whopped by Ed Oliver. Everyone else pulled their weight or more.
Why would I take you being wrong the wrong way? That's a you problem, not a me problem.Meno, you're a great contributor here, please don't take it the wrong way
Here is a good source for Dolphins things, Alain is highly respected among Dolphin fans
x.com
I also would highly recommend Andy Slater, he's very well connected and leaked the Hill "Cop-Cam" footage
x.com
I would add those two when you crosscheck Phins things
-And I just feel strongly Ross will do the right thing and be happy to make Tua wealthy for a long time
I hate Ross, not a fan and the fruit has never arrived from anything he does for the team
That said, he's not shy with the checkbook
All the info you need is the article I posted. This is a business, not a charity and Tua is not getting all of his money if he retires. No chance.
Agree almost no chance Tua retires. And you're right that he forfeits $100+ million if he retires. But it's happened before, with Luck who walked away from $50,000,000 guaranteed, and potentially 10 times that in future earnings. With only 1 concussion, but lots of other non-brain injuries. I think only his wife or mom could persuade him to retire.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
The Play Calling which falls on Mike McDaniel, that's the problem
Lot of plays designed behind the LOS rather than exploiting speed down field, should be obvious to everyone watching
3rd and 3 down 31-10, inside the 20 or 10 yd line and he hands the ball off rather than put the ball in Tua's hands and then next we get 4th and 4 and Tua runs to try and make a play
Career ender and McDaniel played a role in all of that
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Miami is on the hook for almost $90M and could be as much as $125M
-Let's walk it out...I hate to say this but it's possible in less than a month that Tua clears concussion protocol and that's where things get "ugly/raunchy"
You and I know that Stephen Ross will never let that happen. We can bash Ross' record as an owner, not a single Playoff win ever...but he's far from cheap
And Ross DRAFTED TUA...I know that's hard to digest for some fans but Flores wanted Herbert, Mike McDaniel wasn't even here
That's right, people in the Miami front office wanted Herbert and Ross explicitly told everyone he was taking Tua and ordered Grier to take Tua...although Grier has a slightly different recollection of this event but Ross was the one who made the decision. I know it's hard to swallow but when you look at Miami's pathetic record over the last 2 decades, it's not hard to see that Ross has a hand in Draft Day choices and he absolutely SHOULD NOT!!!
People wonder why I hate Stephen Ross with a passion, there you go.
The guy has money coming out the wazoo and he doesn't want anyone to tell him what to do, hence Grier keeps his job doing mostly what the man in the box tells him
McDaniel was about 6th on the interview list, what happened to the Top 5? Like Manning, they passed on the Dolphins
The verdict on McDaniel is still out. He has alot to prove in the next 4+ weeks without Tua. However, Tua owes McDaniel for maximizing one of his strengths, long ball accuracy and quick release. I'm talking passes between 20 and 45 air yards. And Tua owes Grier for getting Waddle and then Tyreek.
I fault Grier for giving Tua a big contract on July 2024 since we all knew he was injury and concussion prone and failed to deliver in games vs top teams. Barry Jackson was clear about this before Tua got the big contract, it's not 20/20 hindsight: make Tua prove that he could both stay healthy another year AND beat playoff teams. Then consider a long-term contract, the downside being it might cost a little more in 2025. I think Tua's only win in the last 7 or 8 games vs playoff teams was DAL.
>>Incidentally, if Tua is medically cleared and simply retires (which would be surprising because of the enormous $$ he would be giving up), the Dolphins would still have a $33.6 M dead money cap charge which could be spread over 2025 and 2026, as the very smart @Jason_OTC noted.<<
From Barry Jackson:
x.com
x.com
jtd13
Footballguy
Maybe he didn't give up a pressure but I saw him getting pushed pretty easily into the backfield more than once Thursday. Perhaps I'm a bit biased from watching him for 40 or so games and seeing him get shoved into the backfield regularly in just about every one leading up to this season. Agree that Jackson was bad as well, but it seemed to me that the key plays were most often getting blown up right up the middle in the first 2.5 quarters. Just like last season when they played teams like the bills, eagles and chiefs.
BespokeJort
Footballguy
If one option was to retire immediately and get $90M dangling another $35-70M couldn’t get me to log in to a computer job remotely for the next 5 years, much less play NFL football at severely elevated risk of permanent disability
Not be to "That guy" but a big reason why guys are in the NFL, and why guys who were just really good at football, aren't, is because they are EXTREMELY competitive. Waking up at 5 AM to lift weights or throw passes or run sprints. The same thing that got guys like Tua this far, is the same reason why he's unlikely to be looking at this like people in this thread are. Tua (and really any NFL starter) is the highest level of the highest level. Something most people dedicate their entire life to, a few rare ones just have crazy athletic gifts and maybe aren't as committed. Those guys typically aren't QB's, and they damn sure aren't Tua, who is not here due to freakish tools.
This is the dream. This is what everything has been for, all those early mornings, all those reps, all those practices, all those interviews, EVERYTHING!!!!! I think the idea of "you've got your money, get out while you can" simply isn't a reality that many players live in. If it was, they never would have gotten this far in the first place. Andrew Luck was a GIGANTIC outlier. Maybe .001% of players would have hung it up in his shoes.
So, while I understand the feelings of those who think he should hang it up and look out for his health. I think that is highly unlikely to happen. Being an NFL QB is his identity. Its incredibly hard to convince someone to not be what they are, to give up what they've worked for, and that's applied to people significantly less fortunate/successful as Tua is.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Totally agree with this. Tua should retire to protect his brain but it doesn’t seem likely. He has worked extremely hard for many years to get where he is and lives to compete on the football field. Giving up the huge paycheck would also be difficult for anyone.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Was gonna post something similar. Good post. Most of these athletes have had such enormous attention from their respected abilities since a very young age. They have lived and breathed sports for a long time. It has brought them fame and money. The routine is what they are. To just stop that is waaaaay easier said then done. Most grow to love the attention. The narrative on when an athlete should retire is basically the Rocky screenplay. Easy for me to say, "Hey, quit being dumb, think of your future, just retire. " Having said all that. Time to retire Tua. Ha ha.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
90 million means you would not have to work another day in your life if you managed your money correctly. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Great post!
However all that competitiveness, drive and money aren't going to mean squat when you're drooling from a cup, have intense migraines daily and can't remember what you had for breakfast to be able to enjoy any of the fruits of your labor. The NFL window is incredibly small and he has to live another 50 years or more. So you're having fun for the maybe 5-10 year window and then miserable for the next 50. I get what your saying but the choice seems so obvious but I'm not an elite athlete.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not sure this is how it would work. You mentioned the key part right away . . . if TUA decides. If Tua is medically cleared to play and refuses (ie retires), he would forfeit all his remaining guarantees. The Dolphins would only be on the hook for his 2024 salary ($1.125 million). If he walked away, he would be entitled to a prorated share of his signing bonus based on much he actually played of the contract. Since he hasn’t played anything on the extension yet, he might not be eligible for any of it. Similarly, any money he does get paid MIA has to take a cap hit on.
The Dolphins could offer to pay him anyway (all or some of the contract). But again, as soon as they cut him a check, they have to take on the cap hit for that amount.
I suspect none of this will materialize, as I doubt Tua would give much thought about retiring.
