QB Zach Wilson, MIA (1 Viewer)

[Todem]

Not ready to call Wilson a bust. Very shortsighted. He was raw coming into the league. Only his sophomore year. Who saw Tua doing what he’s done this year.

If you ask the Tuanon cult they would all tell you “I told you so”.

I agree it took Josh Allen 3 years to really show it.

Even despite todays house of horrors Wilson will get at least another full season in 2023 to develop.

Tua and Allen were never THIS bad. They both showed occasional flashes, and Allen always had the rushing ability to fall back on.

This feels a lot closer to Josh Rosen, where its a question of, what does he even do well? I felt like Darnold showed more in his first 2 years.

All that said, I can't see benching him, because its not like Mike White or Joe Flacco is the answer.

Ohhhh Tua had some brutal I mean brutal games in 2020 and 2021 where I felt no way is he ever going to be elite. And I have not crowned him “elite” just yet. You gotta show it for a few seasons. I don’t care who you are.

Wilson has been brutal…..I don’t disagree. I do truly believe he will get one more full season. If he does not make a jump in year 3 stick a fork in him.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Not ready to call Wilson a bust. Very shortsighted. He was raw coming into the league. Only his sophomore year. Who saw Tua doing what he’s done this year.

If you ask the Tuanon cult they would all tell you “I told you so”.

I agree it took Josh Allen 3 years to really show it.

Even despite todays house of horrors Wilson will get at least another full season in 2023 to develop.

Tua has been given a set of skill players around him that rival anyone
WR1-Tyreek Hill, All Pro
WR2-Waddle-#6 pick in the Draft
TE-Gesicki, franchise tag, paid as if he were a Top 5-10 at the position
RB1-Jeff Wilson, they went and got someone to take the heat off the passing attack
RB2-Mostert, was doing Wilson's work until he arrived
OL-Armstead-All Pro singed this off season and Connor Williams should get a Pro bowl nod so Tua got 2 pillars to insert on the OL. in front of him

Most of that was put together in the last 4-6 months and go back maybe 18 months to Waddle, it's happened fast and we never thought Miami would invest so heavily
Tua has no choice but to be good with so much around him. But he is a good QB with tremendous accuracy and when you can move him up into a clean pocket he can deliver strikes right down the middle of the field.
Consistency and maybe doing this for more than half a season will win over the remaining doubters. My concerns are more health related than his ability to process defenses and hit the skill and talent they have assembled around him.
Tua understands McDaniel's scheme and offense as well as anyone I've seen with a 1st year Head Coach, there is chemistry here with the two of them and McDaniel is light years ahead of the last coaching staff in terms of running and scheming an offense.

 

[SoBeDad]

Tua had some brutal games, while at the same time Fitzpatrick had many magical games with the same oline, receivers, and coaches. But Fitzpatrick had recently excelled (and struggled) in TB so I'd give lots of credit to him, and not be too critical of Tua behind a terrible oline and WRs who couldn't separate. Tua did show promise when he had time. And contrary to the narrative, he was accurate on throws over 20 yards. Now, he has a good oline, generational talent at WR and a good coach to maximize his quick release and accuracy. If he stops making mistakes while under pressure, he'll be top 10 going forward, with the injury concern.

Wilson has done worse than 3 different QBs, White, Johnson, and Flacco, at least on the stat sheet fron 2021. It appears that he has regressed in year 2, whereas Tua improved a little. I'm not sure what to make of it, but he looked OK in the early game vs Miami, with lots of help from Hall.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Wilson will get at least another full season in 2023 to develop.

Not sure about that. Even when Allen was "bad", he wasn't this bad.

 

[beef]

$20.7 mil dead cap if cut after the season. $15 mil hit post 6/1 release. Sounds like a steal. I'd take 2 prior to 6/1 for a $40 mil cap hit just to make sure he's gone.

 

[Faust]

Zach Wilson only made things worse after brutal Jets game

 

[Faust]

Jets not considering benching Zach Wilson at QB after 'dogs—' 3-point performance

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The PFF grades on the Offensive Line are pretty shaky.
McGovern rates 15th/37 so he's about avg, Laken Tomlinson hasn't been good and they had injuries at the Tackle position
Like I said, this OL is pretty shaky so how easy or hard is it to evaluate Wilson when he is running for his life on many plays?
I don't have the answers but I do think it's fair to ask if he's playing behind a solid OL. He doesn't have that many starts under his belt and then he never has time to set up and make a progression of his targets.

But he makes rather poor decisions under duress, I think we can safely agree on that right now.

 

[Anarchy99]

Jets need to decide if they are wasting time waiting on something that may never happen, or search for another QB for next season.

Wasting seasons away is a real thing.

While obviously this is a true statement, the Jets have already burned through the following over the past 15 drafts . . .

Zach Wilson (Pick 2)
James Morgan (Pick 125)
Sam Darnold (Pick 3)
Christian Hackenberg (Pick 51)
Bryce Petty (Pick 103)
Geno Smith (Pick 39)
Mark Sanchez (Pick 5)
Kellen Clemens (Pick 49)

In that time, they've had 8 different QBs lead the team in passing yardage in a given year (Pennington, Favre, Sanchez, Smith, Fitzpatrick, McCown, Darnold, Wilson). Changing up on the fly and moving on to another QB hasn't worked out for the Jets. Not sure if investing more in the QB position is better or worse than giving Wilson more time to develop. Having 5 different head coaches and 8 different offensive coordinators probably hasn't helped either.

 

[TLEF316]

The PFF grades on the Offensive Line are pretty shaky.
McGovern rates 15th/37 so he's about avg, Laken Tomlinson hasn't been good and they had injuries at the Tackle position
Like I said, this OL is pretty shaky so how easy or hard is it to evaluate Wilson when he is running for his life on many plays?
I don't have the answers but I do think it's fair to ask if he's playing behind a solid OL. He doesn't have that many starts under his belt and then he never has time to set up and make a progression of his targets.

But he makes rather poor decisions under duress, I think we can safely agree on that right now.

Several all 22 tape clips popping up on twitter this morning up showing him not throwing to WIDE open guys when he had clean pockets yesterday. Missed Mims for an easy TD on a post route. Had 2 open guys on passes late in the game for easy first down completions. The one that was almost picked was an absolute layup to the Conklin and he completely airmailed it.

He's just that bad. Dumb reckless decision in some games and then just totally gun shy in others. And he constantly misses throws that HS quarterbacks could make.

 

[zeeshan2]

Zach sucks and his attitude is worse:

[Rich Cimini] Hearing this morning there’s a lot of raw feelings among #Jets defensive players. Clearly, Zach Wilson’s Post-game accountability (or lack thereof) didn’t sit well.

[SNYJets] Sources inside the Jets’ losing locker room told SNY that Zach Wilson was walking around after the game “like he isn’t the problem.” It rubbed more than a few the wrong way, frustrating several others.

[Rosenblatt] Zach Wilson was asked if he feels like he let the defense down? “No.”

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Breece Hall's injury has exposed Zach Wilson
I feel strongly the Jets win yesterday if Hall was available
We would be talking about a 3-way tie in the East

NY Jets 7-3
Miami 7-3
Buffalo 7-3

And I'm pretty sure that's the order and you know the players on that team feel this. It hurts when you look at what could have been yesterday and where you would be today vs feeling like you must replace the QB as early as next week. It's crazy how 1 or 2 plays or 1 RB in this case and we're having a very different conversation. Sure, Wilson would still suck and we got some excellent feedback from @TLEF316 which is why I wanted more detail on the OL, he answered it well by pointing out Wilson won't fire at wide open targets, that's not good.

 

[TLEF316]

Some examples....

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594671299326271490

WAY late on a throw to Moore

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594678660149219328

Mims WIDE open with Zach appearing to be staring him down....doesn't let loose

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938

Moore wide open again on the last play

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594665630086877185

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Some examples....

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594671299326271490

WAY late on a throw to Moore

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594678660149219328

Mims WIDE open with Zach appearing to be staring him down....doesn't let loose

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938

Moore wide open again on the last play

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594665630086877185

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Haven't really seen enough of Wilson and wasn't sure if NY fans/media was on a witch hunt or not so I did some digging and saw all of those.
Michael David Smith@MichaelDavSmith
Zach Wilson was last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate last year, and Zach Wilson is last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate this year. Remarkably consistent player.
-----------------------------------------
Its all there and its not good.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Some examples....

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594671299326271490

WAY late on a throw to Moore

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594678660149219328

Mims WIDE open with Zach appearing to be staring him down....doesn't let loose

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938

Moore wide open again on the last play

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594665630086877185

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Haven't really seen enough of Wilson and wasn't sure if NY fans/media was on a witch hunt or not so I did some digging and saw all of those.
Michael David Smith@MichaelDavSmith
Zach Wilson was last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate last year, and Zach Wilson is last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate this year. Remarkably consistent player.
-----------------------------------------
Its all there and its not good.

60% completion rate is on the lower side of things these days, Most of the better QBs operate in a system where the short passing game operates similar to running the football and that leads to higher completion % on all the short passes or as some refer to it "Dink n Dunk"

What i can't understand with the weapons Wilson has is finding 1 of them open on a short pass to at least move the sticks, that type of play seemed absent yesterday

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Some examples....

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594671299326271490

WAY late on a throw to Moore

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594678660149219328

Mims WIDE open with Zach appearing to be staring him down....doesn't let loose

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938

Moore wide open again on the last play

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594665630086877185

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Haven't really seen enough of Wilson and wasn't sure if NY fans/media was on a witch hunt or not so I did some digging and saw all of those.
Michael David Smith@MichaelDavSmith
Zach Wilson was last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate last year, and Zach Wilson is last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate this year. Remarkably consistent player.
-----------------------------------------
Its all there and its not good.

60% completion rate is on the lower side of things these days, Most of the better QBs operate in a system where the short passing game operates similar to running the football and that leads to higher completion % on all the short passes or as some refer to it "Dink n Dunk"

What i can't understand with the weapons Wilson has is finding 1 of them open on a short pass to at least move the sticks, that type of play seemed absent yesterday

Quite a few drops that hit receivers in the numbers though - that’s gonna hurt the completion % too.

Watched at least 3 on the twitters.

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Oh really?

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1594724566571810817?s=46&t=p-_Ab8sg5UVkQ2f7IcAWQw

The #Patriots defense pressured #Jets QB Zach Wilson on 48.3% of his drop-backs (!!), per @PFF:

Wise - sack, three hurries (4)
Uche - three hurries
Judon - two sacks, hurry (3)
Dugger - sack, hurry (2)

Bentely, Ekuale, Wilson, and Guy each with 1 pressure.

You think being pressured on 48% of drop-backs is a “reasonably clean pocket”?

I’d say that’s pretty terrible by NFL standards.

 

[TLEF316]

Some examples....

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594671299326271490

WAY late on a throw to Moore

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594678660149219328

Mims WIDE open with Zach appearing to be staring him down....doesn't let loose

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938

Moore wide open again on the last play

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594665630086877185

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Haven't really seen enough of Wilson and wasn't sure if NY fans/media was on a witch hunt or not so I did some digging and saw all of those.
Michael David Smith@MichaelDavSmith
Zach Wilson was last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate last year, and Zach Wilson is last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate this year. Remarkably consistent player.
-----------------------------------------
Its all there and its not good.

60% completion rate is on the lower side of things these days, Most of the better QBs operate in a system where the short passing game operates similar to running the football and that leads to higher completion % on all the short passes or as some refer to it "Dink n Dunk"

What i can't understand with the weapons Wilson has is finding 1 of them open on a short pass to at least move the sticks, that type of play seemed absent yesterday

Quite a few drops that hit receivers in the numbers though - that’s gonna hurt the completion % too.

Watched at least 3 on the twitters.

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Oh really?

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1594724566571810817?s=46&t=p-_Ab8sg5UVkQ2f7IcAWQw

The #Patriots defense pressured #Jets QB Zach Wilson on 48.3% of his drop-backs (!!), per @PFF:

Wise - sack, three hurries (4)
Uche - three hurries
Judon - two sacks, hurry (3)
Dugger - sack, hurry (2)

Bentely, Ekuale, Wilson, and Guy each with 1 pressure.

You think being pressured on 48% of drop-backs is a “reasonably clean pocket”?

I’d say that’s pretty terrible by NFL standards.

I was just referring to that specific play (the missed throw to Conklin that should have been picked)

Not gonna dispute that Zach was under a lot of pressure yesterday (and often this year). It was really bad early, got better once Brown and Herbig got plugged in and has gotten worse again (predictably) now that AVT is out.

MAYBE it gets better if/when Mitchell gets back (as the guy they plugged in at RT seems to stink) but a 4th round small school rookie RT (even if he was decent at times earlier this year) probably isn't gonna save them.

Zach stinks under pressure...more so than most QB's. But he also misses a lot of throws from clean pockets (by NFL standards). He's not gonna have 25 feet of open space all around him like he did at BYU.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Some examples....

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594671299326271490

WAY late on a throw to Moore

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594678660149219328

Mims WIDE open with Zach appearing to be staring him down....doesn't let loose

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938

Moore wide open again on the last play

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594665630086877185

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Haven't really seen enough of Wilson and wasn't sure if NY fans/media was on a witch hunt or not so I did some digging and saw all of those.
Michael David Smith@MichaelDavSmith
Zach Wilson was last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate last year, and Zach Wilson is last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate this year. Remarkably consistent player.
-----------------------------------------
Its all there and its not good.

60% completion rate is on the lower side of things these days, Most of the better QBs operate in a system where the short passing game operates similar to running the football and that leads to higher completion % on all the short passes or as some refer to it "Dink n Dunk"

What i can't understand with the weapons Wilson has is finding 1 of them open on a short pass to at least move the sticks, that type of play seemed absent yesterday

Quite a few drops that hit receivers in the numbers though - that’s gonna hurt the completion % too.

Watched at least 3 on the twitters.

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Oh really?

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1594724566571810817?s=46&t=p-_Ab8sg5UVkQ2f7IcAWQw

The #Patriots defense pressured #Jets QB Zach Wilson on 48.3% of his drop-backs (!!), per @PFF:

Wise - sack, three hurries (4)
Uche - three hurries
Judon - two sacks, hurry (3)
Dugger - sack, hurry (2)

Bentely, Ekuale, Wilson, and Guy each with 1 pressure.

You think being pressured on 48% of drop-backs is a “reasonably clean pocket”?

I’d say that’s pretty terrible by NFL standards.

The avg # of KD, Hurry and Sacks is about 20%

The Jets are running 2.5x worse by your numbers

 

[Anarchy99]

Breece Hall's injury has exposed Zach Wilson
I feel strongly the Jets win yesterday if Hall was available
We would be talking about a 3-way tie in the East

NY Jets 7-3
Miami 7-3
Buffalo 7-3

And I'm pretty sure that's the order and you know the players on that team feel this. It hurts when you look at what could have been yesterday and where you would be today vs feeling like you must replace the QB as early as next week. It' s crazy how 1 or 2 plays or 1 RB in this case and we're having a very different conversation. Sure, Wilson would still suck and we got some excellent feedback from @TLEF316 which is why I wanted more detail on the OL, he answered it well by pointing out Wilson won't fire at wide open targets, that's not good.

I will disagree, only because you can't change what would have happened for one team while matter-of-factly leaving what happened for the other team the same. If NYJ started moving the ball on offense, NE would have made more of an attempt to open things up themselves offensively. The Jets had one play to get into NE territory (30+ yard pass to Mims). After that, they ran 2 offense plays on the Patriots side of the field. The Jets gained 2 yards in the second half and did not advance past their own 35-yard line the entire half. NE had triple the yardage the Jets did in the game. They were able to move the ball effectively but had way too many penalties and took multiple sacks near the red zone. Maybe Hall would have helped some, but I'm not sure he would have had the impact to flip the outcome. Jets RBs didn't have holes to tun through. While the score was tied for much of the game, the Jets were not moving the ball at all. Bill just patiently waited for his defense or special teams to make a play and went ultra conservative on offense.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Breece Hall's injury has exposed Zach Wilson
I feel strongly the Jets win yesterday if Hall was available
We would be talking about a 3-way tie in the East

NY Jets 7-3
Miami 7-3
Buffalo 7-3

And I'm pretty sure that's the order and you know the players on that team feel this. It hurts when you look at what could have been yesterday and where you would be today vs feeling like you must replace the QB as early as next week. It' s crazy how 1 or 2 plays or 1 RB in this case and we're having a very different conversation. Sure, Wilson would still suck and we got some excellent feedback from @TLEF316 which is why I wanted more detail on the OL, he answered it well by pointing out Wilson won't fire at wide open targets, that's not good.

I will disagree, only because you can't change what would have happened for one team while matter-of-factly leaving what happened for the other team the same. If NYJ started moving the ball on offense, NE would have made more of an attempt to open things up themselves offensively. The Jets had one play to get into NE territory (30+ yard pass to Mims). After that, they ran 2 offense plays on the Patriots side of the field. The Jets gained 2 yards in the second half and did not advance past their own 35-yard line the entire half. NE had triple the yardage the Jets did in the game. They were able to move the ball effectively but had way too many penalties and took multiple sacks near the red zone. Maybe Hall would have helped some, but I'm not sure he would have had the impact to flip the outcome. Jets RBs didn't have holes to tun through. While the score was tied for much of the game, the Jets were not moving the ball at all. Bill just patiently waited for his defense or special teams to make a play and went ultra conservative on offense.

Hall could have QB'd them to victory yesterday, he could have returned a kick for a TD, he could have scored several ways and he changes the entire arc of that football game.
But we can agree to disagree, I'm not saying you're wrong but I feel strongly the Jets win that football game with their star rookie RB.
And that's why they're so angry with Wilson. I feel he was under a lot of duress yesterday, every time he dropped back he had someone in his face quickly.
Tua had this issue first couple seasons with one of the worst OL in all of football history, just downright awful.
And now you can see how much better he looks with all that talent around him as I listed above.
It's brought out the best in Tua, it pays to surround your young QB with talent.

 

[beef]

Breece Hall's injury has exposed Zach Wilson
I feel strongly the Jets win yesterday if Hall was available

Because Hall is good. Zack Wilson sucking has exposed Zack Wilson of being the suck.

 

[zeeshan2]

[Tej Seth] out of the 55 quarterbacks with at least 500 plays since 2018, there is only one quarterback that has a lower EPA/play than Zach Wilson: Josh Rosen

[Nania] Through first 20 career games: - Pass TD: Darnold: 28, Sanchez: 20, Geno: 16, Z. Wilson: 13. - Net yards per pass attempt (which includes sack yards): Darnold: 5.89, Sanchez: 5.70, Geno: 5.70, Z. Wilson: 4.97. - Comp%: Darnold: 59.7%, Geno: 56.8%, Z. Wilson: 56.2%, Sanchez: 54.2%

 

[travdogg]

Jets need to decide if they are wasting time waiting on something that may never happen, or search for another QB for next season.

Wasting seasons away is a real thing.

While obviously this is a true statement, the Jets have already burned through the following over the past 15 drafts . . .

Zach Wilson (Pick 2)
James Morgan (Pick 125)
Sam Darnold (Pick 3)
Christian Hackenberg (Pick 51)
Bryce Petty (Pick 103)
Geno Smith (Pick 39)
Mark Sanchez (Pick 5)
Kellen Clemens (Pick 49)

In that time, they've had 8 different QBs lead the team in passing yardage in a given year (Pennington, Favre, Sanchez, Smith, Fitzpatrick, McCown, Darnold, Wilson). Changing up on the fly and moving on to another QB hasn't worked out for the Jets. Not sure if investing more in the QB position is better or worse than giving Wilson more time to develop. Having 5 different head coaches and 8 different offensive coordinators probably hasn't helped either.

I can totally see the Jets bringing in somebody like Derek Carr next offseason.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Some examples....

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594671299326271490

WAY late on a throw to Moore

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594678660149219328

Mims WIDE open with Zach appearing to be staring him down....doesn't let loose

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594667347226279938

Moore wide open again on the last play

https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1594665630086877185

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Haven't really seen enough of Wilson and wasn't sure if NY fans/media was on a witch hunt or not so I did some digging and saw all of those.
Michael David Smith@MichaelDavSmith
Zach Wilson was last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate last year, and Zach Wilson is last in the NFL with a 55.6% completion rate this year. Remarkably consistent player.
-----------------------------------------
Its all there and its not good.

60% completion rate is on the lower side of things these days, Most of the better QBs operate in a system where the short passing game operates similar to running the football and that leads to higher completion % on all the short passes or as some refer to it "Dink n Dunk"

What i can't understand with the weapons Wilson has is finding 1 of them open on a short pass to at least move the sticks, that type of play seemed absent yesterday

Quite a few drops that hit receivers in the numbers though - that’s gonna hurt the completion % too.

Watched at least 3 on the twitters.

Reasonably clean pocket (by NFL standards) on the near INT. Wilson doesn't set his feet and airmails it.

Oh really?

https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1594724566571810817?s=46&t=p-_Ab8sg5UVkQ2f7IcAWQw

The #Patriots defense pressured #Jets QB Zach Wilson on 48.3% of his drop-backs (!!), per @PFF:

Wise - sack, three hurries (4)
Uche - three hurries
Judon - two sacks, hurry (3)
Dugger - sack, hurry (2)

Bentely, Ekuale, Wilson, and Guy each with 1 pressure.

You think being pressured on 48% of drop-backs is a “reasonably clean pocket”?

I’d say that’s pretty terrible by NFL standards.

The avg # of KD, Hurry and Sacks is about 20%

The Jets are running 2.5x worse by your numbers

Point of fact: not my numbers. @PFF’s numbers.

 

[JoeJoe88]

Jets need to decide if they are wasting time waiting on something that may never happen, or search for another QB for next season.

Wasting seasons away is a real thing.

While obviously this is a true statement, the Jets have already burned through the following over the past 15 drafts . . .

Zach Wilson (Pick 2)
James Morgan (Pick 125)
Sam Darnold (Pick 3)
Christian Hackenberg (Pick 51)
Bryce Petty (Pick 103)
Geno Smith (Pick 39)
Mark Sanchez (Pick 5)
Kellen Clemens (Pick 49)

In that time, they've had 8 different QBs lead the team in passing yardage in a given year (Pennington, Favre, Sanchez, Smith, Fitzpatrick, McCown, Darnold, Wilson). Changing up on the fly and moving on to another QB hasn't worked out for the Jets. Not sure if investing more in the QB position is better or worse than giving Wilson more time to develop. Having 5 different head coaches and 8 different offensive coordinators probably hasn't helped either.

I can totally see the Jets bringing in somebody like Derek Carr next offseason.

Maybe they can get Darnold back.

 

[Kiddnets]

Only the Jets - comparing epically bad QB like Darnold to Wilson. Not what I was expecting/hoping for from the #2 overall pick.

I agree that players can develop late - people constantly use Allen as an example - but he showed more than a few flashes along the way during his 2 rough initial seasons - this is different. Wilson is throwing it 10 yds over the head of wide open screen passes and then grounding the ball to wide open WRs a few yds away. He has looked epically bad.

I agree that he should get the majority of the season to turn it around but I honestly think a bench of even a half or so would show him that these mistakes have to be fixed or else. Next Sunday's home game is going to be absolutely brutal for Wilson. He's going to get a real dose of angry NY fans. The Mike White chants are going to be out in full force early - especially after the attitude after the game.

He needs to come out and apologize for the lack of accountability and just say it was in the moment and after watching the film he absolutely let his defense and team down - then go out and start strong Sunday. Otherwise this could get Hackenburg ugly very quick

 

[Payne]

Darnold has done more than Wilson ever has. Not sure how you can say Wilson is better.

 

[Banger]

Breece Hall's injury has exposed Zach Wilson
I feel strongly the Jets win yesterday if Hall was available
We would be talking about a 3-way tie in the East

NY Jets 7-3
Miami 7-3
Buffalo 7-3

And I'm pretty sure that's the order and you know the players on that team feel this. It hurts when you look at what could have been yesterday and where you would be today vs feeling like you must replace the QB as early as next week. It's crazy how 1 or 2 plays or 1 RB in this case and we're having a very different conversation. Sure, Wilson would still suck and we got some excellent feedback from @TLEF316 which is why I wanted more detail on the OL, he answered it well by pointing out Wilson won't fire at wide open targets, that's not good.

ya, but Hall was just masking the Wilson issue. He's been very bad. I can't believe at this point I'd say Flacco is a better alternative but I really think he is.

 

[Todem]

Wilson will get at least another full season in 2023 to develop.

Not sure about that. Even when Allen was "bad", he wasn't this bad.

Agree with that. But again I just think they will give him one more year. Hey maybe I am wrong.

Time will tell.

 

[TLEF316]

Breece Hall's injury has exposed Zach Wilson
I feel strongly the Jets win yesterday if Hall was available
We would be talking about a 3-way tie in the East

NY Jets 7-3
Miami 7-3
Buffalo 7-3

And I'm pretty sure that's the order and you know the players on that team feel this. It hurts when you look at what could have been yesterday and where you would be today vs feeling like you must replace the QB as early as next week. It's crazy how 1 or 2 plays or 1 RB in this case and we're having a very different conversation. Sure, Wilson would still suck and we got some excellent feedback from @TLEF316 which is why I wanted more detail on the OL, he answered it well by pointing out Wilson won't fire at wide open targets, that's not good.

ya, but Hall was just masking the Wilson issue. He's been very bad. I can't believe at this point I'd say Flacco is a better alternative but I really think he is.

If it was literally just about completing passes, I would agree. But if the o-line plays like it did yesterday, Flacco will get sacked a LOT. Wilson saves them at least 3-4 sacks a game that Flacco could not squirt out of.

Now maybe he recognizes those pressures better/earlier and gets rid of the ball. That's a distinct possibility.

 

[Banger]

Wilson will get at least another full season in 2023 to develop.

Not sure about that. Even when Allen was "bad", he wasn't this bad.

Agree with that. But again I just think they will give him one more year. Hey maybe I am wrong.

Time will tell.

It's a tough spot because they can win the division if they get average QB play...do you waste this year hoping Wilson miraculously flips the switch? It would be one thing if he were showing signs of turning the corner or improving but he seems to be going the wrong way.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Now maybe he recognizes those pressures better/earlier and gets rid of the ball. That's a distinct possibility.

This could be the 1st time in the history of the internet that the words "Flacco" and "recognizing pressure" were used in a sentence together without the word "doesn't". Well done.

 

[Dizzy]

Dan Orlovsky made a great point this morning on Get Up… the reason so many GMs miss on first round QBs is because there is no way to predict how these super-talented young men are going to handle being thrust into becoming the leader of men. Most go to bad teams and have to deal with losing for the first time. Most are getting hit more than (and harder than) ever. And most will now be held accountable (fair or not) for losses by the media – and questioned about it directly.

Wilson went to #1 prep high school in Utah… so they recruit the best players and face zero (0) competition on a weekly basis. It’s the Harlem Globetrotters.

Wilson then played at BYU… again, no competition and overloaded roster vs opponents.

One last point – might be a factor, might not… he is now playing in cold weather, truly cold weather for the first time in his life. Having lived here in the Salt Lake Valley since 2010, I can tell you that winters are extremely mild compared to back east (formerly in eastern PA). There is no moisture in the air here, thus it never feels truly cold. Nothing like back east where the wind blows and everything left exposed goes numb.

EDIT: On last point... same goes for hot weather with respect to moisture/humidity... it never feels as hot and exhausting here during the 95-105° F days like it did back east in the 85-95° F days of Aug/Sep.

 

[rockaction]

Glad I used a reasonably high dynasty rookie pick on this guy. That would be par for the course, wouldn't it?

 

[rockaction]

Some food for thought about replacing Wilson with Flacco.

From the Sporting News article that Faust linked:

By no means have the Jets been a powerhouse offense at any point this season, but here's a look at some notable stats in the three games with Joe Flacco under center and the six games since — not counting New England — with Wilson under center, with NFL rank.

First Three	Stat	Last Six
17.3 (t-20th)	Points per game	24 (t-13th)
5.0 (t-24th)	Yards per play	5.5 (13th)
-9.9% (19th)	Offensive DVOA	5% (13th)
-4.4% (23rd)	Passing DVOA	16.2% (11th)

My take: It's clear to see that Wilson has overseen an improved offense. Whether that's because of him or not, we don't know. What we do know is that they've actually improved.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Some food for thought about replacing Wilson with Flacco.

From the Sporting News article that Faust linked:

By no means have the Jets been a powerhouse offense at any point this season, but here's a look at some notable stats in the three games with Joe Flacco under center and the six games since — not counting New England — with Wilson under center, with NFL rank.

First Three	Stat	Last Six
17.3 (t-20th)	Points per game	24 (t-13th)
5.0 (t-24th)	Yards per play	5.5 (13th)
-9.9% (19th)	Offensive DVOA	5% (13th)
-4.4% (23rd)	Passing DVOA	16.2% (11th)

My take: It's clear to see that Wilson has overseen an improved offense. Whether that's because of him or not, we don't know. What we do know is that they've actually improved.

Flacco is not taking this team to the playoffs especially behind that o-line. There’s zero reason to turn to him. Mike White would make more sense but at this point there’s very little chance he’s a long term solution - and it’s also likely he’d throwing away a few games away on his own.
Basically sticking with Zach the rest of the season is what makes the most sense.

 

[Tin Cup]

It could (maybe) be worse…

 

[Faust]

Jets coach Robert Saleh did not commit to starting Zach Wilson in Week 12 against the Bears.​

Wilson turned in one of the more atrocious performances you'll ever see in the modern NFL on Sunday, completing just nine passes while his team attempted 10 punts. Saleh made his disappointment with the team's offensive performance quite obvious in the 10-3 loss, saying after the game that the second-half effort by his team was "dog (expletive)." Sitting at 6-4 on the season, the Jets have a team worthy of a playoff berth, with their obvious downfall being at quarterback. Backups Joe Flacco and Mike White could both offer more than Wilson (1,279-4-5-) has through seven games, and should be considered as options for the remainder of the season. Neither White or Flacco will be attractive options for Week 12 if they are to draw the start.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Dan Orlovsky made a great point this morning on Get Up… the reason so many GMs miss on first round QBs is because there is no way to predict how these super-talented young men are going to handle being thrust into becoming the leader of men. Most go to bad teams and have to deal with losing for the first time. Most are getting hit more than (and harder than) ever. And most will now be held accountable (fair or not) for losses by the media – and questioned about it directly.

Wilson went to #1 prep high school in Utah… so they recruit the best players and face zero (0) competition on a weekly basis. It’s the Harlem Globetrotters.

Wilson then played at BYU… again, no competition and overloaded roster vs opponents.

One last point – might be a factor, might not… he is now playing in cold weather, truly cold weather for the first time in his life. Having lived here in the Salt Lake Valley since 2010, I can tell you that winters are extremely mild compared to back east (formerly in eastern PA). There is no moisture in the air here, thus it never feels truly cold. Nothing like back east where the wind blows and everything left exposed goes numb.

EDIT: On last point... same goes for hot weather with respect to moisture/humidity... it never feels as hot and exhausting here during the 95-105° F days like it did back east in the 85-95° F days of Aug/Sep.

If they ever open an expansion team in Salt Lake City, Wilson should go #1 in the supplemental draft.

 

[JoeJoe88]

Dan Orlovsky made a great point this morning on Get Up… the reason so many GMs miss on first round QBs is because there is no way to predict how these super-talented young men are going to handle being thrust into becoming the leader of men. Most go to bad teams and have to deal with losing for the first time. Most are getting hit more than (and harder than) ever. And most will now be held accountable (fair or not) for losses by the media – and questioned about it directly.

Wilson went to #1 prep high school in Utah… so they recruit the best players and face zero (0) competition on a weekly basis. It’s the Harlem Globetrotters.

Wilson then played at BYU… again, no competition and overloaded roster vs opponents.

One last point – might be a factor, might not… he is now playing in cold weather, truly cold weather for the first time in his life. Having lived here in the Salt Lake Valley since 2010, I can tell you that winters are extremely mild compared to back east (formerly in eastern PA). There is no moisture in the air here, thus it never feels truly cold. Nothing like back east where the wind blows and everything left exposed goes numb.

EDIT: On last point... same goes for hot weather with respect to moisture/humidity... it never feels as hot and exhausting here during the 95-105° F days like it did back east in the 85-95° F days of Aug/Sep.

If they ever open an expansion team in Salt Lake City, Wilson should go #1 in the supplemental draft.

How’s the cougar population there?

 

[kface]

Wasting such a good defense...they need to make the switch.

 

[rockaction]

they need to make the switch

To who? Mike White? Joe Flacco? Streveler? Jim Kelly's nephew who just won the Grey Cup?

Who is going to QB this offense more effectively this year?

After the year they probably need to switch, but they won't know unless they see more of Wilson.

 

[kface]

they need to make the switch

To who? Mike White? Joe Flacco? Streveler? Jim Kelly's nephew who just won the Grey Cup?

Who is going to QB this offense more effectively this year?

After the year they probably need to switch, but they won't know unless they see more of Wilson.

I would give Flacco a try...this team deserves to be in the playoffs and wilson isn't going to get him there. The defense is lights out at this point...

 

[rockaction]

I would give Flacco a try

They did. Not sure if you saw my table a few posts above these, but the offense has performed better with Wilson under center. Flacco is behind Mike White on the depth chart. He wasn't even dressing game days when Wilson, White, and Streveler were.

 

[Foosball God]

They don't have much choice this year, but they need to make sure they have a really solid second option next year if they don't jettison Wilson.

 

[Cjw_55106]

The guy joined a terrible football team and is 20 games into his career. He will never be a top end guy, but I wouldnt necessarily write him off. Seems Goff, Mariota-like to me.

 

[crushedspirit]

I think much of those numbers with offense being better under Wilson are directly attributed to Breece breaking out from the Steeler game until his injury. I don't think Flacco is the answer as a statue, but Wilson has to play better. The excuses are running thin.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I would give Flacco a try

Behind their o-line this would not work out well.

 

[Dizzy]

Dan Orlovsky made a great point this morning on Get Up… the reason so many GMs miss on first round QBs is because there is no way to predict how these super-talented young men are going to handle being thrust into becoming the leader of men. Most go to bad teams and have to deal with losing for the first time. Most are getting hit more than (and harder than) ever. And most will now be held accountable (fair or not) for losses by the media – and questioned about it directly.

Wilson went to #1 prep high school in Utah… so they recruit the best players and face zero (0) competition on a weekly basis. It’s the Harlem Globetrotters.

Wilson then played at BYU… again, no competition and overloaded roster vs opponents.

One last point – might be a factor, might not… he is now playing in cold weather, truly cold weather for the first time in his life. Having lived here in the Salt Lake Valley since 2010, I can tell you that winters are extremely mild compared to back east (formerly in eastern PA). There is no moisture in the air here, thus it never feels truly cold. Nothing like back east where the wind blows and everything left exposed goes numb.

EDIT: On last point... same goes for hot weather with respect to moisture/humidity... it never feels as hot and exhausting here during the 95-105° F days like it did back east in the 85-95° F days of Aug/Sep.

If they ever open an expansion team in Salt Lake City, Wilson should go #1 in the supplemental draft.

How’s the cougar population there?

Outstanding... for both! They don't call it "Boobtah" for nothing... and the Wasatch Range has one of the highest Mountain Lion densities in North America.

 

[Faust]

You're the leader of the Jets, Zach Wilson. Start acting like one