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Quality Games articles - Been done before, you know? (1 Viewer)

biff

Footballguy
I would hope that Jeff Pasquino isn't actually "stealing" this idea, but it's awfully strange that he is using the same name, "Quality Games", as the writer for Fanball.com, Bob Lung. Lung's consistency concept has been called the Quality Game Scores since 2002. In fact, his articles actually have always started with the same verbage about the "quality starts" in baseball. While Jeff expands on Lung's idea a little with the Excellent game scenario, it still reads basically the same.

I've been on this site for years and respect the entire staff here...but this is the first time I have ever seen one of the writers be this close to "stealing" someone else's idea.

Like I said, maybe it's just the fact that the name is the same...but still kinda close.

Thoughts?

 
Biff,

Quality Games has been around as a fantasy baseball concept. I have talked to Bob Lung before because he had learned about my Crank score. It's a big world out there and I would imagine Bob has no issue with Jeff writing about quality games, since it was far from something Bob invented, patented, or anything like it. Bob deserves credit for thinking of it as an idea to explore for football, but that doesn't prevent Jeff from doing the same.

It's nice you were concerned, but you don't have to worry. Nothing shady is going on with Jeff incorporating a good idea that you've seen someone else discuss.

The only thing that would be shady is if he were plagiarizing the piece and no one in this industry would intentionally do this if they planned on being in business for long.

 
I would hope that Jeff Pasquino isn't actually "stealing" this idea, but it's awfully strange that he is using the same name, "Quality Games", as the writer for Fanball.com, Bob Lung. Lung's consistency concept has been called the Quality Game Scores since 2002. In fact, his articles actually have always started with the same verbage about the "quality starts" in baseball. While Jeff expands on Lung's idea a little with the Excellent game scenario, it still reads basically the same.I've been on this site for years and respect the entire staff here...but this is the first time I have ever seen one of the writers be this close to "stealing" someone else's idea. Like I said, maybe it's just the fact that the name is the same...but still kinda close.Thoughts?
Hi biff,I can honestly say I've never read his articles.Feel free to include a link here and I'll take a look, but I can assure you that my work was independently done. I have no idea how Bob Lung or anyone else over at Fanball has approached this topic.As the previous poster said, Quality Starts is a baseball stat and I used the name in a similar fashion here in applying it to football.
 
Biff,Quality Games has been around as a fantasy baseball concept. I have talked to Bob Lung before because he had learned about my Crank score. It's a big world out there and I would imagine Bob has no issue with Jeff writing about quality games, since it was far from something Bob invented, patented, or anything like it. Bob deserves credit for thinking of it as an idea to explore for football, but that doesn't prevent Jeff from doing the same. It's nice you were concerned, but you don't have to worry. Nothing shady is going on with Jeff incorporating a good idea that you've seen someone else discuss. The only thing that would be shady is if he were plagiarizing the piece and no one in this industry would intentionally do this if they planned on being in business for long.
I understand that the consistency idea has been around for awhile, but the concern is the using of the similar title of the idea. I'm not saying Jeff is plagiarizing the piece....but yes, 4 years ago, someone at Rotoworld did steal the idea. He got caught. Rotoworld was approached and took the piece down. So, it has happened before.
 
I would hope that Jeff Pasquino isn't actually "stealing" this idea, but it's awfully strange that he is using the same name, "Quality Games", as the writer for Fanball.com, Bob Lung. Lung's consistency concept has been called the Quality Game Scores since 2002. In fact, his articles actually have always started with the same verbage about the "quality starts" in baseball. While Jeff expands on Lung's idea a little with the Excellent game scenario, it still reads basically the same.

I've been on this site for years and respect the entire staff here...but this is the first time I have ever seen one of the writers be this close to "stealing" someone else's idea.

Like I said, maybe it's just the fact that the name is the same...but still kinda close.

Thoughts?
Hi biff,I can honestly say I've never read his articles.

Feel free to include a link here and I'll take a look, but I can assure you that my work was independently done. I have no idea how Bob Lung or anyone else over at Fanball has approached this topic.

As the previous poster said, Quality Starts is a baseball stat and I used the name in a similar fashion here in applying it to football.
Jeff,The link to Fanball won't work because he's on the Owner's Edge section, which is a pay site, but here's the opening paragraph to his Quality Game Score year in review article.

The Head-to-Head (H2H) format in Fantasy Football leads to the need for consistency. If you have been playing fantasy sports for any length of time, you know how frustrating it can be to win by 30 points one week and then lose by 2 points the next. How many times have you been one of the highest scoring teams in the league, but you miss the playoffs by one or two games?

Many will call it “bad luck” and that’s partially true. Injuries to key players, bad weather, etc. are situations that affect our fantasy teams, but are uncontrollable. However, there is one aspect of fantasy football that you can control. The consistency of your team! If you’re scratching your head and asking, “How can you control consistency”, you’re not alone. The topic and its application are new to fantasy football.

Reasoning and Methodology

It’s called the Quality Game Scores. Basically, it is the awarding of a Quality Game to a player each week when they exceed the average points scored in your league for that position. The more Quality Games a player is awarded each year, the more consistent that player is and the more beneficial they are to your fantasy team.

It is very similar to the Quality Starts concept used for pitchers in fantasy baseball. A pitcher earns a Quality Start every time they pitch more than 6 innings and give up less than three earned runs in a game. The more Quality Starts a pitcher has in a year, the more consistent and more valuable they are to their team. However, Quality Starts do not affect a fantasy baseball team as much, since its roto-style with accumulative stats. However, in a H2H fantasy baseball format, it can be very important.

So, during the 2002 season, I started to research the concept of consistency in fantasy football. I knew that just taking the average points (total points/number of games) for each player wasn't really valid. Because if 2 players each rushed for 1,280 yards, they both averaged 80 yards per game. There appears to be no difference between the 2 players for valuation purposes. BUT, if Player A rushes for exactly 80 yards every week and Player B rushes for 120 yards one week and 40 yards the next week, Player A will probably win you more Fantasy games in the long run. Therefore, I knew that I had to use a game-by-game basis for my valuations.

Next step was to set the Quality Game (QG) Factor. This was the average points that a player needed to meet or exceed to be awarded a Quality Game for that week. Each QG Factor was calculated for each specific position (QB, RB, WR, TE), using a standard amount of players each season for consistency. They were as follows: Top 40 QB’s, Top 75 RB’s, Top 100 WR’s and Top 40 TE’s. I calculated the weekly points scored for each individual week by each player. I used the standard scoring system (1pt/20yds – pass, 1pt/10yds – rush/rec, 4 pts – pass td and 6 pts – rush/rec td) for my initial calculations, but you can use your own scoring system. By comparing the player's weekly score against the calculated QG Factor; I could determine how consistent that player was for the year. In the next section, let’s take a look at which players were the most consistent for 2007.

Don't you think this seems pretty close? I'm sure you didn't steal his idea, Jeff. My thought was that it was too close for comfort. Thanks for listening. Keep up the great work at FBG!

 
I've yet to see anything in FF that suggests consistency or quality or whatever you want to call it is anything other than a duplicate way to rank players based on the number of FF points they score.

If you sort QBs by the percentage of 'quality starts' for each QB who played at least 10 games last year, you get this...

Brady, Tom

Roethlisberger, Ben

Warner, Kurt

Manning, Peyton

Romo, Tony

Hasselbeck, Matt

Garrard, David

Favre, Brett

Anderson, Derek

Brees, Drew

McNabb, Donovan

Palmer, Carson

Kitna, Jon

Cutler, Jay

Manning, Eli

Campbell, Jason

Schaub, Matt

Garcia, Jeff

Rivers, Philip

Bulger, Marc

Young, Vince

Jackson, Tarvaris

Huard, Damon

Harrington, Joey

I'm not sure what this adds that we didn't already know...

 
....Don't you think this seems pretty close? I'm sure you didn't steal his idea, Jeff. My thought was that it was too close for comfort. Thanks for listening. Keep up the great work at FBG!
It is and it isn't. Conceptually I see the same thing, but the calculations are different, as are the baselines. I also compare mine for a sanity check and rate the production into 3 buckets, not a "yes/no" answer and give you a bit more than just a Quality Start.Either you like the concept or you don't - but I can tell you I've never seen this done somewhere else. Congrats to Mr. Lung for devising a similar system for Quality Starts. I won't compare the two since I don't know the other one.
 
I've yet to see anything in FF that suggests consistency or quality or whatever you want to call it is anything other than a duplicate way to rank players based on the number of FF points they score.If you sort QBs by the percentage of 'quality starts' for each QB who played at least 10 games last year, you get this...Brady, TomRoethlisberger, BenWarner, KurtManning, PeytonRomo, TonyHasselbeck, MattGarrard, DavidFavre, BrettAnderson, DerekBrees, DrewMcNabb, DonovanPalmer, CarsonKitna, JonCutler, JayManning, EliCampbell, JasonSchaub, MattGarcia, JeffRivers, PhilipBulger, MarcYoung, VinceJackson, TarvarisHuard, DamonHarrington, JoeyI'm not sure what this adds that we didn't already know...
There's more to it than just a Quality Start. Exceeding the QS by a given percentage can win you more games. Failing to reach a QS by a given percentage can cost you some games.I suggest you take a look at Table 4 which ranks each QB by Net Value and compares that to ADP to see if there is a deeper meaning to the numbers.
 
I would hope that Jeff Pasquino isn't actually "stealing" this idea, but it's awfully strange that he is using the same name, "Quality Games", as the writer for Fanball.com, Bob Lung. Lung's consistency concept has been called the Quality Game Scores since 2002. In fact, his articles actually have always started with the same verbage about the "quality starts" in baseball. While Jeff expands on Lung's idea a little with the Excellent game scenario, it still reads basically the same.I've been on this site for years and respect the entire staff here...but this is the first time I have ever seen one of the writers be this close to "stealing" someone else's idea. Like I said, maybe it's just the fact that the name is the same...but still kinda close.Thoughts?
First - studies like these two have been done on lots of other FF sites as well - some before Lung, but not in the exact same waySecond - all FF sites have rankings, many where you can customize for a certain scoring system - should only one have the ability to do rankings for say WCOFF's scoring system because they did it first?Anything that looks at any of the different facets of the game is good. Pasquino defined his study and methodology and if you read that you would have seen that it is not the same as Lung's. So what's the beef?
 
we're not splitting atoms here folks, it's fantasy football

calculating how often a player scored in a certain range is elementary enough that i think 2 or more people out of 6 billion can think of it on their own.

 
joffer said:
we're not splitting atoms here folks, it's fantasy footballcalculating how often a player scored in a certain range is elementary enough that i think 2 or more people out of 6 billion can think of it on their own.
I know Bob and have spoken to him and it is not that he came up with a different consistency idea....its the fact that he used the same name, "Quality Games."
 
joffer said:
we're not splitting atoms here folks, it's fantasy footballcalculating how often a player scored in a certain range is elementary enough that i think 2 or more people out of 6 billion can think of it on their own.
I know Bob and have spoken to him and it is not that he came up with a different consistency idea....its the fact that he used the same name, "Quality Games."
A problem with using "Quality Starts"????That's ridiculous. If anything, we should be referring it back to John Lowe of the Philly Inquirer back in the 80s. It's a baseball term (and frankly it should be 7 innings, not 6, but I digress - 4.50 ERAs aren't "quality" in my book....)
 
we're not splitting atoms here folks, it's fantasy footballcalculating how often a player scored in a certain range is elementary enough that i think 2 or more people out of 6 billion can think of it on their own.
I know Bob and have spoken to him and it is not that he came up with a different consistency idea....its the fact that he used the same name, "Quality Games."
A problem with using "Quality Starts"????That's ridiculous. If anything, we should be referring it back to John Lowe of the Philly Inquirer back in the 80s. It's a baseball term (and frankly it should be 7 innings, not 6, but I digress - 4.50 ERAs aren't "quality" in my book....)
Jeff,Please read what the last post said, it was the fact that you used the term "Quality GAMES", where Bob Lung's term for his consistency concept is "Quality Game Scores". Which tracks how many Quality Games a player earns to show how consistent the player was last year or over the past years.It's not the concept that he feels you "borrowed" it's the name/term that you used. Your concept is different, no question...it's just the name of it is not.But, if you feel that your naming of the idea is fine...then go with it.Thanks for listening.
 
we're not splitting atoms here folks, it's fantasy footballcalculating how often a player scored in a certain range is elementary enough that i think 2 or more people out of 6 billion can think of it on their own.
I know Bob and have spoken to him and it is not that he came up with a different consistency idea....its the fact that he used the same name, "Quality Games."
A problem with using "Quality Starts"????That's ridiculous. If anything, we should be referring it back to John Lowe of the Philly Inquirer back in the 80s. It's a baseball term (and frankly it should be 7 innings, not 6, but I digress - 4.50 ERAs aren't "quality" in my book....)
Jeff,Please read what the last post said, it was the fact that you used the term "Quality GAMES", where Bob Lung's term for his consistency concept is "Quality Game Scores". Which tracks how many Quality Games a player earns to show how consistent the player was last year or over the past years.It's not the concept that he feels you "borrowed" it's the name/term that you used. Your concept is different, no question...it's just the name of it is not.But, if you feel that your naming of the idea is fine...then go with it.Thanks for listening.
I think you're really reaching here. It's not as though one guys article is titled "Dr. Football's Weekly Stats That Matter" and then somebody came along with an article titled "Fantasy Doc's Weekly Stats That Matter". The two words "quality" and "games" are so general in nature that, how anyone can lay claim to them is beyond me. What's Jeff supposed to name his article?Quality NFL Contests? Top-Notch Games?What's next? 1,001 fantasy sites are all of sudden "stealing" the term "Sleepers & Busts"?
 
we're not splitting atoms here folks, it's fantasy football

calculating how often a player scored in a certain range is elementary enough that i think 2 or more people out of 6 billion can think of it on their own.
I know Bob and have spoken to him and it is not that he came up with a different consistency idea....its the fact that he used the same name, "Quality Games."
A problem with using "Quality Starts"????That's ridiculous. If anything, we should be referring it back to John Lowe of the Philly Inquirer back in the 80s. It's a baseball term (and frankly it should be 7 innings, not 6, but I digress - 4.50 ERAs aren't "quality" in my book....)
Jeff,Please read what the last post said, it was the fact that you used the term "Quality GAMES", where Bob Lung's term for his consistency concept is "Quality Game Scores". Which tracks how many Quality Games a player earns to show how consistent the player was last year or over the past years.

It's not the concept that he feels you "borrowed" it's the name/term that you used. Your concept is different, no question...it's just the name of it is not.

But, if you feel that your naming of the idea is fine...then go with it.

Thanks for listening.
This guy is not happy you "borrowed" his username.
 

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