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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (2 Viewers)

In the end, it's a constant internal battle for me.  I know I could train differently (more flats to work on turnover, more intensity, etc), and that I could get more fit, and that would likely make race day an even better experience for me.  But I don't love running.  I love being outside, on the trails.  I love the community at races.  I love the planning and problem solving that are such a huge part of a 100M.  I love the community and the volunteers and the aid stations.  I love the sunset and the sunrise when I'm out on the trails.  And most of all I love that feeling at the finish, a feeling you can only get on race day.  
Man, this could describe me to a T.  Other than the trail part.

The training...the grind...God I hate that.
 

But I love the races. The way I feel after I run. The camaraderie here. The lifestyle change I made. But dammit I am having a really hard time right now mentally getting motivated. I don't think signing up for a race will help. Every evening I think about the races I want to sign up for, then start thinking about the summer heat (which is awful right now), and the idea of waking up 5 days a week at 4am just pisses me off.  :lol:

On top of that, I've got some other stuff just boiling to the surface right now. I alluded to my past in my marathon race report, and let's just say all kinds of weird things on going on mentally right now.

I'm a mess. Gotta snap out of it. And soon.

 
Curious - Why not 13 weeks of marathon training, slightly modified? Iirc, there's a test race scheduled in the training. 
as you guys discuss this, the trickiest part as I start to approach this whole crazy marathon training plan is that there seems to be about 8 billion approaches out there and some of them are almost jacked up. over the weekend while reading some stuff, I found some link to a runner's world article that referenced a "runcoach" app that I downloaded. Plugged in some info to it that it asked for, linked it to my strava and then it mapped out a plan for me... the plan it mapped out is kind of totally jacked up based on what you guys keep suggesting. If I follow it, then this week I would do:

monday: easy run 3 miles - which it references as being 25-30 minutes @ 8:48/mile

tuesday: easy run 2.0 miles @ 8:48/mi

wednesday: easy run 2.0 miles @ 8:48/mi

thursday: "treshhold 8.5 miles" - 1.5 mile jog/warm up, then some drills/strides then 3 miles @ 7:35/mi, jog for 5 minutes, 10 sets of run 100 meters @ 6:19, jog 30 seconds, 1.5 mile "very easy jog". 

friday: cross  training/core strength

saturday: 14.5 mile long run @ 8:48/mile

That seems super crazy based on everything I've been recommended so far... Really, my main goal right now is to do one speed workout of some kind a week and then run, run, and run some more the rest of the week... But it is a bit confusing/intimidating to come up with a plan with so many different opinions out there.

 
@SFBayDuck

Can you just do like one 5K road race? For me?
Ha! I probably should.

I have run a couple of 10K turkey trots, back in '14 and '15 (52:04 PR, good god I'm slow).    Both were miserable in that my calves were so destroyed afterward that I was effectively injured for a month or two.  Of course I didn't specifically train for either of them, that might have had something to do with that.

 
Yeah, this is a hard one for me.  There are really three ways I can get faster at the 100K/100M distances, and they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but it's tough to figure out how to do them simultaneously. 

1.  Get more fit, so that my "easy pace" is faster.  That ties into what you're saying, I think.  That's going to happen with a good training block, with some intensity mixed in with a steady volume.  And a good training block of 18+ weeks would mean no racing, at least not above a 50K.

2.  Increase the percentage of the race I'm running vs hiking.  But this is tough to work on in training because there is really is no way to "practice" what it's like in the latter stages of a long ultra, whether it's the ability to continue to run the downs (quad conditioning) or the flats (just pain and tired).  There is a physical component to it, whether you want to call it strength or muscular endurance, but it's probably mostly mental. In training I think the closest you can get is back-to-back long runs, forcing yourself on that second day to run on tired legs.  I talked to my pacer Surf about that during those last 10 miles at San Diego, as while he didn't have a good day he has run a handful of sub-24 hour 100Ms.  He said he gets so used to the pain of running on tired legs in training on that second long run that it just doesn't bother him anymore and he can do it indefinitely during the race.  I need to do that more.  But even that is nothing like actually experiencing mile 58 or 94, and I know I've gotten better at running more, and later, the more races I've done.

3.  Execute the "non-running" parts of the race.  Nutrition, hydration, blisters, electrolyte balance, and managing aid stations.  Again, you can "practice" your nutrition in training, but finding something that I works for even 5-6 hours doesn't mean it's going to work at 15+ hours.  The aid station one is a tricky one for me.  I spent a ton of time during San Diego in aid stations, even though I was doing something the whole time, not just sitting and resting.  Eating, drinking, filling everything with ice, refilling my pack, cleaning my feet and re-lubing, dealing with blisters, etc.  And doing those things leads to fewer problems out on the course, and I think overall I executed SD pretty well.  So if I cut 30-40 minutes off my aid station time that's great, but does it end up costing me an hour on the course due to other issues getting worse?  And oh yeah, every race is different because of the conditions, so what works once may not work the next time.  

In the end, it's a constant internal battle for me.  I know I could train differently (more flats to work on turnover, more intensity, etc), and that I could get more fit, and that would likely make race day an even better experience for me.  But I don't love running.  I love being outside, on the trails.  I love the community at races.  I love the planning and problem solving that are such a huge part of a 100M.  I love the community and the volunteers and the aid stations.  I love the sunset and the sunrise when I'm out on the trails.  And most of all I love that feeling at the finish, a feeling you can only get on race day.  
Tough nuts to crack.  At Umsted this year I couldn't run the last 25 miles because the feet were so blistered.  Maybe something as simply as gaiters would have helped, maybe investing more time at the aid stations doing prevention.  Problem is prevention is just a guess because you only experience a lot of these issues once you get above 50 miles.  For me, long training runs are impossible without the aid stations you have on race day.  Just can't carry enough food or water out on the trails.  It's worse in summer time when you burn through your water.  I may try a 40 miler this weekend and hit the facilities on the Parkway.  I'm not sure though because I'm worried to death about "boinking" which could really set me back.

 
Curious - Why not 13 weeks of marathon training, slightly modified? Iirc, there's a test race scheduled in the training. 
Good question, that would probably work but my primary focus is to have a breakout performance in the half. I figure my best bet is to tailor my training for that distance and I should have ideal racing conditions in November.  If I was to follow a marathon training plan with the intent of racing a half, I don't think I would be Hansons.  I think I need more work at half marathon pace than marathon pace.

 
Tough nuts to crack.  At Umsted this year I couldn't run the last 25 miles because the feet were so blistered.  Maybe something as simply as gaiters would have helped, maybe investing more time at the aid stations doing prevention.  Problem is prevention is just a guess because you only experience a lot of these issues once you get above 50 miles.  For me, long training runs are impossible without the aid stations you have on race day.  Just can't carry enough food or water out on the trails.  It's worse in summer time when you burn through your water.  I may try a 40 miler this weekend and hit the facilities on the Parkway.  I'm not sure though because I'm worried to death about "boinking" which could really set me back.
Yup, so true.  I submitted a question to a podcast a few years back (can't remember if it was URP or EndurancePlanet) about that old adage "nothing new on race day."  But you just can't practice everything you'll do on race day because there is no way to simulate it in training, so you absolutely end up trying things on race day that are new.

 
as you guys discuss this, the trickiest part as I start to approach this whole crazy marathon training plan is that there seems to be about 8 billion approaches out there
There is and they all work - it's a matter of finding the one that best fits you.  Best fits your mentality, schedule, strengths, weaknesses, etc.

 
Ha! I probably should.

I have run a couple of 10K turkey trots, back in '14 and '15 (52:04 PR, good god I'm slow).    Both were miserable in that my calves were so destroyed afterward that I was effectively injured for a month or two.  Of course I didn't specifically train for either of them, that might have had something to do with that.
Just one day, wake up and kill a 5K and post it without warning.  It might blow up this thread but it'll be worth it. 

Even better if you race it while dressed/prepped for a 100 mile ultra. Which means lots of gels, of course.

 
Man, this could describe me to a T.  Other than the trail part.

The training...the grind...God I hate that.
 

But I love the races. The way I feel after I run. The camaraderie here. The lifestyle change I made. But dammit I am having a really hard time right now mentally getting motivated. I don't think signing up for a race will help. Every evening I think about the races I want to sign up for, then start thinking about the summer heat (which is awful right now), and the idea of waking up 5 days a week at 4am just pisses me off.  :lol:

On top of that, I've got some other stuff just boiling to the surface right now. I alluded to my past in my marathon race report, and let's just say all kinds of weird things on going on mentally right now.

I'm a mess. Gotta snap out of it. And soon.
I know I'll get run out of here for this comment, but I think for many of you, less would be more.  I'm not entirely sold on 6 runs a week plans.  Why 6 and not 15?  A day is just an arbitrary time period based on the earth spinning.  If a day was 18 hours or 36 hours, would we still run once a day?  

 
Just one day, wake up and kill a 5K and post it without warning.  It might blow up this thread but it'll be worth it. 

Even better if you race it while dressed/prepped for a 100 mile ultra. Which means lots of gels, of course.
All the gels.  

Reminds me of when I ran on the Boston course a couple of years ago, in my dirty Hokas and carrying a handheld.  I got looked at by a few other runners like I was an alien.

 
Man, this could describe me to a T.  Other than the trail part.

The training...the grind...God I hate that.
 

But I love the races. The way I feel after I run. The camaraderie here. The lifestyle change I made. But dammit I am having a really hard time right now mentally getting motivated. I don't think signing up for a race will help. Every evening I think about the races I want to sign up for, then start thinking about the summer heat (which is awful right now), and the idea of waking up 5 days a week at 4am just pisses me off.  :lol:

On top of that, I've got some other stuff just boiling to the surface right now. I alluded to my past in my marathon race report, and let's just say all kinds of weird things on going on mentally right now.

I'm a mess. Gotta snap out of it. And soon.
I know a lot of mine is still the whole "new experience" thing but I'm loving the runs on a daily basis - as long as I'm not feeling hurt/injured. And I've really embraced the both the cold and starting to embrace the heat. The cold was really a "this ain't so bad" kind of thing that I realized running in 30 degrees is really about perfect. The heat right now is more the challenge of it, IMO. I got that I liked/appreciated the cold for helping. The heat thing is more a feeling of challenge and feeling like a BMF for not dying while running 8 miles when it is stupid hot.

The one thing I wish I could do is cultivate some running partners locally. There are people I know that run and we talk, but it hasn't really worked out to have people to go out and run with, which I think I would really like. Not that I can really talk and run at the same time but the camaraderie part would be nice, IMO. 

 
I know I'll get run out of here for this comment, but I think for many of you, less would be more.  I'm not entirely sold on 6 runs a week plans.  Why 6 and not 15?  A day is just an arbitrary time period based on the earth spinning.  If a day was 18 hours or 36 hours, would we still run once a day?  
One coach I talked to has his athletes on 10 day cycles, not 1-week cycles.  Same thinking, 7 days is arbitrary and we tend to do it because we have time to run long on the weekend.  But he felt most runners responded better with long runs spaced 10 days apart.

 
A dude who lives up the street from me just signed up for that, trying to get his first 100 mile finish.  
I'm hoping something flips in the next two weeks so I can bank miles early.  Jogging in the heat of the day has me really scared right now.  May mess around with some run/walk training.  My heart rate was pushing 160 yesterday at a 13:00 min pace.

 
I know I'll get run out of here for this comment, but I think for many of you, less would be more.  I'm not entirely sold on 6 runs a week plans.  Why 6 and not 15?  A day is just an arbitrary time period based on the earth spinning.  If a day was 18 hours or 36 hours, would we still run once a day?  
I actually don't disagree.  If it fit my schedule I'd only run 5x per week - outside of peak training anyway.  In order to facilitate I'd need to run at times of day I'm not currently willing to, but it's on my radar for when my kids are old enough to be home alone.  But if you aren't able to etch out large enough blocks to run during the day I think 6-7x per week is more effective.

 
I know I'll get run out of here for this comment, but I think for many of you, less would be more.  I'm not entirely sold on 6 runs a week plans.  Why 6 and not 15?  A day is just an arbitrary time period based on the earth spinning.  If a day was 18 hours or 36 hours, would we still run once a day?  
There are times I would totally run 2x a day if life wasn't in the way. But I also find it really important for me to take a day off here and there. I'm an old fart and rest = good, IMO. 

 
One coach I talked to has his athletes on 10 day cycles, not 1-week cycles.  Same thinking, 7 days is arbitrary and we tend to do it because we have time to run long on the weekend.  But he felt most runners responded better with long runs spaced 10 days apart.
The marathon training plan I created was loosely based on 10-14 day short cycles.  I'll be doing the same thing next time around.  I think it works better for me than the more narrow windows.  Just need to maintain flexibility in between short cycles.  Sometimes your body just needs a day or two of easy running; other times three or four or more.  Listen to your body.

 
now can you just tell me which one will work best for me! TIA!

:D  
:lmao:

Based on what I know about you I think the right one for you the second time you do it isn't the same as it is now.  As resistant as you are to it I'd err on the side of volume now and less on quality, but suspect that won't be your optimum path next time around.  And I get it.  I was insistent on quality only when I first entered in here years ago.  I had to fail that route in order to learn the best way for me to take step one.  Once I took that step I've been able to integrate the quality that gets me out the door everyday.  Can't jump right to step two unfortunately though.

 
I greased the skids yesterday, mentioned to my wife that the full chatty (IM) is calling to me next year.  Which would be my 2nd ever, only one so far was 5 years ago.

But then reading duck, I start to think maybe I should do pinhotti... 

But cycling is just so much more fun.

 
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:lmao:

Based on what I know about you I think the right one for you the second time you do it isn't the same as it is now.  As resistant as you are to it I'd err on the side of volume now and less on quality, but suspect that won't be your optimum path next time around.  And I get it.  I was insistent on quality only when I first entered in here years ago.  I had to fail that route in order to learn the best way for me to take step one.  Once I took that step I've been able to integrate the quality that gets me out the door everyday.  Can't jump right to step two unfortunately though.
I'm actually making an effort on the whole quantity over quality thing. Right now I'm really thinking "quantity" in my planning. Part of my problem is that it seems like every plan I keep finding has me running at faster paces for a number of runs than what people are saying here. That said, I need to go back and look at the stuff @Zasada sent me from his recent plan. It had some good stuff in it but I needed to do some km to mile conversions to put it into my own frame of reference.

 
as you guys discuss this, the trickiest part as I start to approach this whole crazy marathon training plan is that there seems to be about 8 billion approaches out there and some of them are almost jacked up. over the weekend while reading some stuff, I found some link to a runner's world article that referenced a "runcoach" app that I downloaded. Plugged in some info to it that it asked for, linked it to my strava and then it mapped out a plan for me... the plan it mapped out is kind of totally jacked up based on what you guys keep suggesting. If I follow it, then this week I would do:

monday: easy run 3 miles - which it references as being 25-30 minutes @ 8:48/mile

tuesday: easy run 2.0 miles @ 8:48/mi

wednesday: easy run 2.0 miles @ 8:48/mi

thursday: "treshhold 8.5 miles" - 1.5 mile jog/warm up, then some drills/strides then 3 miles @ 7:35/mi, jog for 5 minutes, 10 sets of run 100 meters @ 6:19, jog 30 seconds, 1.5 mile "very easy jog". 

friday: cross  training/core strength

saturday: 14.5 mile long run @ 8:48/mile

That seems super crazy based on everything I've been recommended so far... Really, my main goal right now is to do one speed workout of some kind a week and then run, run, and run some more the rest of the week... But it is a bit confusing/intimidating to come up with a plan with so many different opinions out there.
That’s got variety and volume and easy days so it’s got the ingredients.  You should be able to compare plans online like something like the link below.  You need to know the # of days you want to train, approx mileage you seek, duration and that will weed out some approaches.  Or you can stop looking if it’s going to drive you crazy 😃

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans

 
That’s got variety and volume and easy days so it’s got the ingredients.  You should be able to compare plans online like something like the link below.  You need to know the # of days you want to train, approx mileage you seek, duration and that will weed out some approaches.  Or you can stop looking if it’s going to drive you crazy 😃

http://fellrnr.com/wiki/A_Comparison_of_Marathon_Training_Plans
More info is never bad... I keep looking. But I kind of mostly I just kind of want to settle in on a plan since I've already "started". I kind of have one mapped out and started on it last week but it was a little tweaked based on how it started. I'm kind of adjusting it a bit to bump up the longer runs faster but mostly I'm looking at doing something like this:

monday: 5/6 miles at "reasonable pace"

tuesday: speed workouts (1/2 mile repeats, hill repeats, maybe fast 5k, etc)

wednesday: cross train/easy run/rest day?

thursday: 5/6 miles at "reasonable pace"

friday: some kind of easy run

saturday: long easy runs

sunday: rest day

I've even kind of sketched out the long runs from now until race day but I'm tweaking that. I want to get up to long runs out of my comfort zone ASAP so I can mentally prep for this craziness.

 
I'm actually making an effort on the whole quantity over quality thing. Right now I'm really thinking "quantity" in my planning. Part of my problem is that it seems like every plan I keep finding has me running at faster paces for a number of runs than what people are saying here. That said, I need to go back and look at the stuff @Zasada sent me from his recent plan. It had some good stuff in it but I needed to do some km to mile conversions to put it into my own frame of reference.
Oh, your miles...miles ahead of where I was mentally a half decade ago.  I'm just saying it's clear you'd rather not run slow(er).  And I totally get that.

 
More info is never bad... I keep looking. But I kind of mostly I just kind of want to settle in on a plan since I've already "started". I kind of have one mapped out and started on it last week but it was a little tweaked based on how it started. I'm kind of adjusting it a bit to bump up the longer runs faster but mostly I'm looking at doing something like this:

monday: 5/6 miles at "reasonable pace"

tuesday: speed workouts (1/2 mile repeats, hill repeats, maybe fast 5k, etc)

wednesday: cross train/easy run/rest day?

thursday: 5/6 miles at "reasonable pace"

friday: some kind of easy run

saturday: long easy runs

sunday: rest day

I've even kind of sketched out the long runs from now until race day but I'm tweaking that. I want to get up to long runs out of my comfort zone ASAP so I can mentally prep for this craziness.
I read ‘reasonable pace’ as faster than easy.  If that’s the case I don’t like that Monday in front of speed/quality of Tuesday and would consider it at easy. I’ve got Hanson on the brain so it’s hard for me to shake in response but I think the theory applies to spend meaningful training time at goal pace but not too much. I went with a Higdon plan my first time and it had a long run progression that made sense to me but I didn’t learn my goal pace (or trust it) during training as I didn’t have a good half under my belt at the start of my training. Since you do, that is likely informing your pace/goal and you’ll need to increase the run length at that goal pace. You can do that either with increasing length runs at goal pace or putting goal pace miles in the middle of warm up and cool down miles on longer runs.  Keep progressing and take it one day & run at a time. An easy/recovery run performed too fast is counterproductive if it’s detrimental to the next one so remember the intent of each run in relation to the next and the big picture. 

 
Oh, your miles...miles ahead of where I was mentally a half decade ago.  I'm just saying it's clear you'd rather not run slow(er).  And I totally get that.
So.. having this talk, I went and talked to our coach/fitness guy here at work. We had talked some before and he knows where I am and where my head is... He totally fed into me ignoring all this great advice here! 

Ok, really, not really! 

Basically we had a really good talk around the different approaches. And helped put a lot of stuff in perspective. 

 
You can do that either with increasing length runs at goal pace or putting goal pace miles in the middle of warm up and cool down miles on longer runs.  Keep progressing and take it one day & run at a time. An easy/recovery run performed too fast is counterproductive if it’s detrimental to the next one so remember the intent of each run in relation to the next and the big picture. 
I typed that before reading this... that's a lot of what he was saying. And it really fits into what I've done so far. Basically there's something about me going out for a long run and doing it at goal pace that builds confidence. I.e. "I just did 8.5 at race pace today and it felt manageable so next time go out and see how 10 feels." Rinse, repeat. 

That is how I got ready to do the 1/2 and it was a huge help, IMO. Maybe once I know I can do a full and if I decide to do more than 1, then maybe I do something different to prepare. If I were going to do the half in the fall instead of a full, I'd totally know that I can do it under 1:45 and would be looking for ways to be able to do it AFAP. 

For now, building my confidence in running 8:45 +/- to :know: I can do it for 26.2 is my goal. If all that makes sense. Talking it all out is definitely helpful.

 
I typed that before reading this... that's a lot of what he was saying. And it really fits into what I've done so far. Basically there's something about me going out for a long run and doing it at goal pace that builds confidence. I.e. "I just did 8.5 at race pace today and it felt manageable so next time go out and see how 10 feels." Rinse, repeat. 

That is how I got ready to do the 1/2 and it was a huge help, IMO. Maybe once I know I can do a full and if I decide to do more than 1, then maybe I do something different to prepare. If I were going to do the half in the fall instead of a full, I'd totally know that I can do it under 1:45 and would be looking for ways to be able to do it AFAP. 

For now, building my confidence in running 8:45 +/- to :know: I can do it for 26.2 is my goal. If all that makes sense. Talking it all out is definitely helpful.
So, I've never run this distance. But I've read enough here from those that have to give the following caveats.

-- Respect the distance. Even when you finish long training runs, none of them are 26.2. And all of them will tell you that the race starts at mile 20.

-- Because of that, be careful of setting too high of a time goal for your first one. The race reports I've read after hitting a wall after mile 20 and riding the struggle bus have always made me think twice of even considering one.  It's miserable and has made some of them question even being out there. Tough reads.

-- There's running it and racing it. Knowing you, you're going to want to race it. I'll let the others chime in, but that may not be a good idea. 

-- For those reasons above, it would seem that a slower but higher quantity plan may serve you better and keep you from overshooting. I fear if you go with a plan that emphasizes pace, there's a higher risk of things not going well.

I hope I'm not coming across as too negative.  You are really talented and I want you to do well. I'll let the others with actual experience help guide you through the training. Just wanted to put my outside experience with reading a lot in here out there.

 
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Quantity, quantity, quantity.  Whatever the method, you increase the quantity and the late fall race goals will take care of themselves.  I get your frustration, but remember your best training period in 2018 was Spring.  Despite the increase in YTD volume your Spring volume actually decreased year-over-year.  You ran a lot more miles in January and March, but ran less in the two months preceding the relay - I get there was some injury maintenance, so I'm sure it's justified.  Don't forget that though.

But now you're healthy and you bested June 2018 despite basically losing a week recovering from the relay.  You logged 76 miles last July.  Get over 100.  You logged 100 miles last August.  Do 130.  You logged 104 miles last September.  Do 150.  Hit those marks and you'll do head turning stuff when the weather eventually breaks in October.
I use these posts for motivation to get in as much as I can.

And while I think you already know this, understand that I want nothing more than to get those miles in. If you (or anyone here) wants to take my wife and kids for 3-4 months, I promise to put in 50 mpw every week. I simply can't do it just yet, especially with a wife that's trying to do the same.

That said, my youngest is actually starting full day preschool (3x/week) starting in mid August so that is going to be a huge change and will finally allow me to get out more consistently.  First time I'll have that freedom regardless of my wife's work schedule.  My goal is to get out for 8-10+ miles every Tu/Wed/Thur. 

I'm counting down the days.  6 weeks to go.

 
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So, I've never run this distance. But I've read enough here from those that have to give the following caveats.

-- Respect the distance. Even when you finish long training runs, none of them are 26.2. And all of them will tell you that the race starts at mile 20.

-- Because of that, be careful of setting too high of a time goal for your first one. The race reports I've read after hitting a wall after mile 20 and riding the struggle bus have always made me think twice of even considering one.  It's miserable and has made some of them question even being out there. Tough reads.

-- There's running it and racing it. Knowing you, you're going to want to race it. I'll let the others chime in, but that may not be a good idea. 

-- For those reasons above, it would seem that a slower but higher quantity plan may serve you better and keep you from overshooting. I fear if you go with a plan that emphasizes pace, there's a higher risk of things not going well.

I hope I'm not coming across as too negative.  You are really talented and I want you to do well. I'll let the others with actual experience help guide you through the training. Just wanted to put my outside experience with reading a lot in here out there.
I appreciate the thoughts. I already have my time goals in mind. They are subject to change depending on how training goes. The talk with the coach at work went a long way in setting my plan and it likely will be a plan different than what most here recommend. I really don't know if I will do more than this marathon. I know I will run more races. I know I will run more 1/2 marathons. I really think I might be content to finish 1 marathon and not try another. Saying that, I was sure that was the case before I signed up for one and I'm already wondering if that is true...

So, that said, here are my goals as currently mapped in my head:

1. Just finish it. Don't quit.

2. Under 4 hours. Seems like a nice magic number and by all accounts, if I can do a 1:43 HM, this is reasonable.

3. 3:45 or better. I don't want to settle on something "too easy" so this is really what I have my mind set on right now. 3:45 will have me more than satisfied but truth be told, I'd like to try to push for under 3:40 but that may be pie in the sky, who knows.

Too easy is in quotes above on purpose. Nothing about this seems easy, not even close. But if it is my only one, I want to feel I left it all out there.

 
As far as the distance goes, I fully respect it. I have read z's accounts of his races as well as others. And I know what I felt like after my first half when I was only sort of prepared. It wasn't pretty in the days after. I am mostly excited to do this but there is still plenty of trepidation as I head into it. It was brutally hot Saturday but finishing 8.5 at less than a 4 hour pace and thinking about doing that 2 more times plus a little was pretty sobering. 

 
Ummm, I don't get it. Being slow isn't exclusive to running for me. 

@The Iguana, you have a much longer history running than me. You'll crush the marathon. Don't let my rough experience colour your goals!
Brad Pitt embodying the IMO questionable work gym guy advice you’ve both shared recently. 

 
- There's running it and racing it. Knowing you, you're going to want to race it. I'll let the others chime in, but that may not be a good idea. 
I think plan A can involve racing it. Just as long as the intention to race doesn't start until at least mile 18.

 
I use these posts for motivation to get in as much as I can.

And while I think you already know this, understand that I want nothing more than to get those miles in. If you (or anyone here) wants to take my wife and kids for 3-4 months, I promise to put in 50 mpw every week. I simply can't do it just yet, especially with a wife that's trying to do the same.

That said, my youngest is actually starting full day preschool (3x/week) starting in mid August so that is going to be a huge change and will finally allow me to get out more consistently.  First time I'll have that freedom regardless of my wife's work schedule.  My goal is to get out for 8-10+ miles every Tu/Wed/Thur. 

I'm counting down the days.  6 weeks to go.
Great news for you, 50 mpw is a 2020 thing. Get to 25 mpw in July then 30 in August. July will be hard, but accomplish that then August takes care of itself with the newly available time. Then you'll be faster due to fitness and weather gains, so the 35 mpw in September will be completed in the same amount of time as the 30 in August. 

Plan, set. Now go #### some #### up.

 
Brad Pitt embodying the IMO questionable work gym guy advice you’ve both shared recently. 
Good call. I'll try to keep the advice to a minimum. 

Unless anyone wants help pooping in the forest. I've probably done more of that than all of you combined. I'm like the ####### Yoda of trail dookie. 

 
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Zasada said:
Ummm, I don't get it. Being slow isn't exclusive to running for me. 

@The Iguana, you have a much longer history running than me. You'll crush the marathon. Don't let my rough experience colour your goals!
Pretty much everyone I've talked has said it will suck at some point and you have to persevere. I fully expect this to be the case for me as well...

 
bushdocda said:
Brad Pitt embodying the IMO questionable work gym guy advice you’ve both shared recently. 
I respect the guy I work with. He's coached up a number of athletes in several sports and of a variety of abilities. He's run a sub 3hr marathon as well as triathlons and recently did his first ultra. Today we talked about another guy we work with that he is helping that runs long slow miles day after day.

The chat we had today he was also taking into account what my schedule is, what my limitations are and what the different paths are. He also knows what advice I've listened to in the past and what I ignore and do different so it really was a good talk. 

His big advice today was around if I was going to do my runs  faster, then I needed to do fewer of them and do more cross training -' easy bike, dog walks, weight training... Pretty much some of the same stuff I've read online. 

 
And for the record, me talking about all this shortly before going out for a run might not be the best idea unless I really pay attention to what I'm doing... when I went out tonight, I did the first mile at 8:55 but then followed it up with miles of 8:06, 8:14, 7:58, and 8:11. Although the the last one was probably boosted by a wonky gps line from the downtown buildings, IMO. Also to blame was the hottie in red shorts that was out in front of me for parts of miles 2 and 5 that I couldn't not catch up to and the young punk in green shorts during miles 3 and/or 4 that I felt compelled to catch and pass. :lmao:

 
I’ve started and stopped this post ten times for @The Iguana, and it’s changed based on what he has posted and what others have posted. So I can only speak to what I know to be true.

The first two marathons I did, I thought for sure I could run a sub 4:00. I had half marathon results similar to Iguana - I think my best was 1:47 or so. So I did the math and thought, I can do sub 4:00. And I devised a running plan where I did a kind of hybrid plan but was basically based on the Higdon marathon plan.

It took me two marathons to learn that it is simply not enough, especially if you want to maximize your performance. For me, those types of plans were a joke. They didn’t properly prepare me for the marathon. They left a lot of self doubt - wondering if I was properly prepared. And those doubts came through on race day.

For race number three, clearly I did the Hanson plan and stuck with it through and through. Based on the recommendations here, I KNEW it would prepare me. And it did. I had basically zero self doubt during that race. For the first time, I completely trusted my fitness. And it worked!

I believe Iguana is WAY more talented than me. From where I sit, I think he will do better than he thinks. 

I think it may not be a bad idea to load up the Hanson plan, and if he needs to deviate from the plan as he goes, then so be it. You can always back off, but that cumulative fatigue was the key for me.

Now, I also know this is his first. There is a lot to process here. So many unknowns. But one thing many of us here DO know for a fact - the Hanson plan works. I would rather use that as my framework and then go from there. Add another rest day if you must. But be commited to the paces on the training plan.

But don’t sell yourself short Iguana - you will do very well at this marathon no matter what path you choose.

 
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I believe Iguana is WAY more talented than me. From where I sit, I think he will do better than he thinks.
For the record... You, @gianmarco, and @Zasada have all three said about the same time on numerous occasions. But the clock doesn't lie, you all three are in the exact same ballpark that I am. You seem to think that I have more potential than I probably do. I'm hoping to keep getting somewhat faster but I'm not sure that I really have a ton more in there. I might if I drop another 15 pounds but maybe not. Of course, I will point out that I do have about 10 more years or so on my old bones than you or Gian have. Not sure about Z...

:D

 
I respect the guy I work with. He's coached up a number of athletes in several sports and of a variety of abilities. He's run a sub 3hr marathon as well as triathlons and recently did his first ultra. Today we talked about another guy we work with that he is helping that runs long slow miles day after day.

The chat we had today he was also taking into account what my schedule is, what my limitations are and what the different paths are. He also knows what advice I've listened to in the past and what I ignore and do different so it really was a good talk. 

His big advice today was around if I was going to do my runs  faster, then I needed to do fewer of them and do more cross training -' easy bike, dog walks, weight training... Pretty much some of the same stuff I've read online. 
I won’t post any more goofy pics (sorry guys).  That last part about less miles run faster is not going to go well for most people.  

 
Also meant to say that I'm glad you typed it out. I really do appreciate the advice and thoughts. I need all the help I can get here and I'm also kind of pig headed but i do hear and listen, I'm just not always good at heeding sound advice until I learn the hard way...

 
For the record... You, @gianmarco, and @Zasada have all three said about the same time on numerous occasions. But the clock doesn't lie, you all three are in the exact same ballpark that I am. You seem to think that I have more potential than I probably do. I'm hoping to keep getting somewhat faster but I'm not sure that I really have a ton more in there. I might if I drop another 15 pounds but maybe not. Of course, I will point out that I do have about 10 more years or so on my old bones than you or Gian have. Not sure about Z...

:D
Dude, I will be 50 in a month. You are like 51 or something aren’t you?

 
I won’t post any more goofy pics (sorry guys).  That last part about less miles run faster is not going to go well for most people.  
:shrug:

1, don't stop posting goofy pictures. More of it. 2, I am sure that there is a lot lost in translation of me trying to articulate some of his info. He still stressed the same thing numerous people here have - I have to go on long runs - that's key. But the plan we discussed today was similar to what I did for the HMs I ran - run long runs on Saturday at/near marathon pace. But then only running two other days a week doing one speed/strength workout (intervals, hills, etc) and another 5-7 miler kind of like tonight's but maybe not quite that pace.

The idea we discussed was having 2 runs/workouts during the week that were harder, then a progressively longer run on weekends at MP with the idea that the long MP runs should feel easy. Then 2 or 3 other days a week I would either cross train with a bike ride, hike, weights or short easy jog. And final 1 or 2 days is rest/active recovery stretching, etc. So, it kind of also matches other plans I have found and downloaded. 

 

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