Ran a 10k - Official Thread (6 Viewers)

[Zasada]

You are 50? Seriously? No way. Daggumit. I'm "only" 48, will be 49 in October. I thought you were in you late 30s maybe early 40s. 

46 here.

 

[Zasada]

For race number three, clearly I did the Hanson plan and stuck with it through and through. Based on the recommendations here, I KNEW it would prepare me. And it did. I had basically zero self doubt during that race. For the first time, I completely trusted my fitness. And it worked!

FWIW, I'm not sure the Hanson plan was great for me.  I didn't miss a single run in my plan, never cut one short, and just marginally improved my time from the Houston marathon.  And for the Houston marathon you could barely argue that I was following a training plan.  Higdon, a little.  But very loosely.

Sure, there are a bunch of reasons Hanson might not have worked for me as much as I hoped.  They've been running around my head since the race:

• Maybe I ran my ERs too fast
  
• Maybe 5x weekly wasn't enough (even though that's what was prescribed)
  
• Maybe extending my 16mi long run to 19mi three weeks before the race was a mistake
  
• Maybe it wasn't the plan at all and running Houston at sea level (vs Calgary at 3500') was more of a benefit than I'm giving credit to
  

What I'm trying to say was that I hoped Hanson would be a magic bullet and it wasn't.  Did I achieve my goals?  Yup.  But given the volume of training I probably should have been able to run the race faster/easier.  During training, only once did I really feel any kind of cumulative fatigue and it wasn't severe.

I'm not giving advice (@bushdocda) but I just wanted to provide a contrasting opinion on Hanson.  I'm also not giving it the , just wanted to share my experience, which was lukewarm.

 

[ChiefD]

You are 50? Seriously? No way. Daggumit. I'm "only" 48, will be 49 in October. I thought you were in you late 30s maybe early 40s. 

I got lucky with the genetics. Other than the slow part of course.

 

[Zasada]

I'm currently reading Jason Koop's Training Essentials for Ultrarunning and one paragraph really caught my attention:

...and one theory is that athletes with more muscle mass are better able to spread the damage [of fatigue] across more muscle tissue so they can continue to move forward.  Athletes with less muscle tissue may be at a disadvantage because they have less capacity to cope with the stress of muscle breakdown at longer distances.

He goes on to say that there's obviously a limit but observes that Ultrarunners tend to have more mass than marathoners (tell this to Walmsley?). 

As you guys know I'm pretty gangly.  Maybe this explains why I can finish 78th percentile in a 10K but only 61st percentile in a marathon and 30th percentile in a 50K.

As of yesterday I was leaning toward signing-up for a fall 50-miler.  But maybe that's a bad idea.  Two marathons and a 50K in a six-month period has been fun but maybe I should focus on training more and racing less.  I need to get better at the longer distances.  And I think it's just a volume game at this point.  Hanson didn't do the trick for me -- maybe unstructured is in the cards for a bit.

So for the next few weeks I'm just going to get out and run long trails (street ERs during the week) and perhaps do some strength training to build mass.  Maybe stop eating like ####, too.  

 

[Brony]

I’ve started and stopped this post ten times for @The Iguana, and it’s changed based on what he has posted and what others have posted. So I can only speak to what I know to be true.

The first two marathons I did, I thought for sure I could run a sub 4:00. I had half marathon results similar to Iguana - I think my best was 1:47 or so. So I did the math and thought, I can do sub 4:00. And I devised a running plan where I did a kind of hybrid plan but was basically based on the Higdon marathon plan.

It took me two marathons to learn that it is simply not enough, especially if you want to maximize your performance. For me, those types of plans were a joke. They didn’t properly prepare me for the marathon. They left a lot of self doubt - wondering if I was properly prepared. And those doubts came through on race day.

For race number three, clearly I did the Hanson plan and stuck with it through and through. Based on the recommendations here, I KNEW it would prepare me. And it did. I had basically zero self doubt during that race. For the first time, I completely trusted my fitness. And it worked!

I believe Iguana is WAY more talented than me. From where I sit, I think he will do better than he thinks. 

I think it may not be a bad idea to load up the Hanson plan, and if he needs to deviate from the plan as he goes, then so be it. You can always back off, but that cumulative fatigue was the key for me.

Now, I also know this is his first. There is a lot to process here. So many unknowns. But one thing many of us here DO know for a fact - the Hanson plan works. I would rather use that as my framework and then go from there. Add another rest day if you must. But be commited to the paces on the training plan.

But don’t sell yourself short Iguana - you will do very well at this marathon no matter what path you choose.

mmm-bopp!

 

[SayWhat?]

As I recall, I was studying the course map, figuring out how I could take us off course (successfully) in my first mile of pacing.  Runners behind us calling us back ruined the ensuing hilarity that we would have enjoyed.

Forgot about that.  So awesome, as that’s what my wife and I did within the first mile of her pacing me out at Rio Del Lago when Duck was crewing for me.  

________________________________________

Damn, you guys are killing it in here.  Can’t believe the mileage (and vert!) some of you are putting in.  I’m sure I’m missing some, but @Zasada, @-OZ-, @bushdocda, and @SFBayDuck making me go   and  .   Nice work!!  I finally got in a 100+ mile month logged in June and was starting to feel better about things.  Back to the drawing board!

 

[SayWhat?]

Another incredible FKT set recently.  Don’t see that one ever being topped, if I’m being honest.

 

[Zasada]

Another incredible FKT set recently.  Don’t see that one ever being topped, if I’m being honest.

I was just reading this and equally amazed.  Just the logistics of carrying all those gels for fueling!  @ChiefD

 

[JShare87]

A little check-in about my current and future plans. Just trying to get around 30-45 miles a week for the next few months. No real speed work or long runs. May do some strides here or there and 14 miles is probably the longest I’ll go. I may try the half in late October again. My main focus will be putting in a good marathon plan starting in December for my local marathon in early March. See where I’m at during that and possibly attempt a BQ. My current fitness is surprisingly really good. Any thoughts about my plans in order to maintain my current levels of fitness? Is 30-45 miles a week of runs under 150 avg HR a good way to maintain? I have no desire to do any races at the moment. 

 

[MAC_32]

Full disclosure, literally 8 hours after writing out my plan I called an audible.  After the lunch lift I felt great and knowing I didn't really have anything to do during kid's soccer last night I decided to run laps around it.  If it barked?  Pull the plug.  It didn't though.  And while I knew I was going a little faster than intended as the run progressed I never looked at my pace and had never would have guessed it was anywhere near as fast as actual - 7:54/7:35/7:31/7:15/6:55/6:56.  When I looked down at 43 mins I expected another 2-3 laps to get to 6 miles.  Not that I was on my last one.

It still feels fine today, so now I think I'll just run every day until my wife leaves for a long weekend Friday.  And as long as nothing bad happens maybe I'll start 40+ mpw's next week rather than waiting til the end of the month.  I think it's funny how I can never commit to any plan.  Makes me wonder why I even bother writing them out sometimes.

 

[MAC_32]

A little check-in about my current and future plans. Just trying to get around 30-45 miles a week for the next few months. No real speed work or long runs. May do some strides here or there and 14 miles is probably the longest I’ll go. I may try the half in late October again. My main focus will be putting in a good marathon plan starting in December for my local marathon in early March. See where I’m at during that and possibly attempt a BQ. My current fitness is surprisingly really good. Any thoughts about my plans in order to maintain my current levels of fitness? Is 30-45 miles a week of runs under 150 avg HR a good way to maintain? I have no desire to do any races at the moment. 

How's your health?

Based on the trend of your last several check-in's I think that's a far more important question than anything related to training plans.  And hopefully the answer is the suggestions @tri-man 47 made cured what ailed you.

 

[JShare87]

How's your health?

Based on the trend of your last several check-in's I think that's a far more important question than anything related to training plans.  And hopefully the answer is the suggestions @tri-man 47 made cured what ailed you.

It’s pretty good. I still deal with Sciatica every day, but it’s my new norm. Plus, it’s only a nerve thing. @tri-man 47 seemed to have cured my lower leg issues. The area still hurts once in a while after a run but nothing serious. If my body starts to tell me no at any point, I have no issue pulling back. I am content with running 4-7 somewhat slow miles most mornings. Wednesdays and Saturdays I try and do a longish run of 9-14 miles. 

 

[MAC_32]

It’s pretty good. I still deal with Sciatica every day, but it’s my new norm. Plus, it’s only a nerve thing. @tri-man 47 seemed to have cured my lower leg issues. The area still hurts once in a while after a run but nothing serious. If my body starts to tell me no at any point, I have no issue pulling back. I am content with running 4-7 somewhat slow miles most mornings. Wednesdays and Saturdays I try and do a longish run of 9-14 miles. 

That's awesome!  I think you have a good plan, but since everything finally seems to be behaving itself I would test out going a little bit further on some of your long's.  They will only help with half marathon prep and it'll be a better measure about your fitness for spring's (potential) full.  Between the Florida heat and your health history I wouldn't bother with any SoS anytime soon.  Something to keep in mind if the increased long's go by without incident though.

 

[Sand]

Another incredible FKT set recently.  Don’t see that one ever being topped, if I’m being honest.

I sure hope there was one heck of a foxy lady at the end of that trek.

 

[The Iguana]

I think it's funny how I can never commit to any plan.  Makes me wonder why I even bother writing them out sometimes.

considering that I seem to audible every time you turn around, this makes me happy... I either end up running a day I planned to rest, run harder than intended, miss a day because of something dumb, etc... I want a plan... but unless I commit to letting someone tell me what to do 1 day at a time (i.e. being back in high school and going to practice), any plan I have is likely to change at any moment...

 

[MAC_32]

considering that I seem to audible every time you turn around, this makes me happy... I either end up running a day I planned to rest, run harder than intended, miss a day because of something dumb, etc... I want a plan... but unless I commit to letting someone tell me what to do 1 day at a time (i.e. being back in high school and going to practice), any plan I have is likely to change at any moment...

I poke fun at myself for the MAC non-training plans, but there's always at least some truth behind any good joke. Even when I'm in structure it isn't really structure.  At least I'm smart about it when full and half training.  Outside of the last one my future short cycles would only have loose objectives and timelines, but nothing of substance really written in there until I actually got there.  I didn't really plan beyond the current short cycle.  Get through a cycle then look at the next couple week's schedule and get writing, this is a sample:

D1 - 50 mins quality

D2 - 70 mins lower quality

D3 - long, since last one was hour 50, get to 2 hours long, but didn't get to 2 hours

D4 - recover

D5 - recover weather is ####, just move

D6 - MLR 80 mins of whatever that was in the snow 

D7 - recover wife's uncle died, she's priority

D8 - 50 mins quality you skipped yesterday, so extend to 60 to tire yourself out a bit more

D9 - 70 mins lower quality "tempo" in the snow, cause you're not doing a long tomorrow

D10 - long Another MLR, extend cycle from 10 to 14ish days - may have a window between weather/schedule to long run later in the week

Edited plan sometime D9 evening

D11 - recover

D12 - vO2 intervals

D13 - recover

D14 - hopefully long on tired legs - yes! and got to 2 hours!

Few day reset - write out next cycle

12/22-1/3 Cycle 3 goals - Christmas and weather's getting worse.  Forget about quality, just try to find 2 days to long run and as much as you can in between.

1/4-1/15 Cycle 4 goals - Work will be Hell and so is the weather.  Repeat cycle 3.

1/16-1/28 Cycle 5 goals - Weather will still be bad, but more flexible schedule.  Get quality back into the rotation.

1/29-2/11 Cycle 6 goals - Same, but build to 20.

2/12-2/28 Cycle 7 goals - You think the weather is breaking, but it really isn't.  It's okay though.  You stepped back and are just building back up again.

3/1-3/18 Cycle 8 goals - Build to 20 again.

3/19-4/2 Cycle 9 goals - 2 weeks of Hell, #### some #### up.

4/3-4/22 Cycle 10 goals - Taper.

 

[gianmarco]

Currently 90 outside with a dew point of 75. 

 

[MAC_32]

Currently 90 outside with a dew point of 75. 

You're making the 86/69 I'm about to go out in seem comfortably cool.  Preciated.

 

[SFBayDuck]

46 here.

 

[tri-man 47]

A little check-in about my current and future plans. Just trying to get around 30-45 miles a week for the next few months. No real speed work or long runs. May do some strides here or there and 14 miles is probably the longest I’ll go. I may try the half in late October again. My main focus will be putting in a good marathon plan starting in December for my local marathon in early March. See where I’m at during that and possibly attempt a BQ. My current fitness is surprisingly really good. Any thoughts about my plans in order to maintain my current levels of fitness? Is 30-45 miles a week of runs under 150 avg HR a good way to maintain? I have no desire to do any races at the moment. 

I like it.  I’ve had good success with a 30-40 mile/week schedule since the start of January ...usually one or two longer runs a week, and little SOS. It was nice to keep it low-stress for a number of months like that (while using a 30 mile minimum as a way to keep me honest).

 

[gianmarco]

You're making the 86/69 I'm about to go out in seem comfortably cool.  Preciated.

Ran in similar last evening. Other than my shirt weighing me down at the end, it's not that bad if you run 11x minute miles!

Changed half my route and eliminated elevation and it made a huge difference. Pretty successful MAF run and kept it at 140 the whole time. My mile 2 average was 139 and the following 4 were all 140 with a nice tight line.

I also noticed they finally finished the intersection they were working on for the Greenway next to me so I'm going to start using that too. That's a great flat 6 mile total run that I can add to when I need to.

I have to eliminate the hills while doing this. Even moderate hills were making it tough, especially in this heat.

I'm going to try and get a formal MAF test done in the next week.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Another incredible FKT set recently.  Don’t see that one ever being topped, if I’m being honest.

Pffft, it's not on Strava so it didn't happen. Too bad, because I'd bet ".....amazingly traveled 155 km (96.3 miles) in just one day as it crossed the Greenland ice sheet" would be good for a segment CR.

 

[ChiefD]

Currently 90 outside with a dew point of 75. 

That's what I ran in yesterday. Will do so again this afternoon.

I decided to use the heat as the vehicle to snap me out of this mental funk. I'm gonna #BMF this sheeeit this week dammit. 

 

[The Iguana]

That's what I ran in yesterday. Will do so again this afternoon.

I decided to use the heat as the vehicle to snap me out of this mental funk. I'm gonna #BMF this sheeeit this week dammit. 

"Humid and Mostly Cloudy, 87°F, Feels like 94°F, Humidity 64%, Wind 9mph from W - by Klimat.app"

That was at 8:15 pm last night when I ran... I was just a disgusting blob by the time I was done it wasn't even funny. I had sweat pouring off my body as I went through my post run stretch routine. It's kind of impossible to express exactly how gross I was. But it was fun times... 

 

[gianmarco]

That's what I ran in yesterday. Will do so again this afternoon.

I decided to use the heat as the vehicle to snap me out of this mental funk. I'm gonna #BMF this sheeeit this week dammit. 

I could barely breathe. It really felt like I was in a sauna. Otherwise, it wasn't bad as I went out after the sun went down.

 

[SayWhat?]

Camping up along the Superior Hiking Trail this weekend with the family, and doing a solo trek up there again for a full weekend in August.  :giddy: 

Hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable holiday weekend!

 

[AAABatteries]

At the beach this week.  Did a 3.5 mile MAF run Saturday night after driving all day - that kind of sucked as I just wanted to relax and drink beer but happy I got out.

Did a workout and swam a ton Sunday.

Yesterday went out with my 11-year old daughter as she had to do a mile run for cheer.  She is supposed to run under 10:00 for the mile so I told her I’d try and pace her but wasn’t sure my knee would be able to keep up.  Felt good and was able to push her to finish in about 9:30 which made Dad proud and also happy I could do that pace and feel good.  

Later in the day I swam from out spot on the beach to a pier down the beach - about half a mile (just shy of it) and damn if I was up for it.  So much so that I ran back and then waited a couple hours and did it again.  I paid for it last night as I woke up during the night and my shoulders were not happy.  

Got up this morning and did 5 miles - almost went further but decided to be smart and not push things.  Followed it up with another half mile swim to the pier this afternoon.  Now I’m sitting on the beach wondering if I can just sleep down here all night. 

 

[pbm107]

Slow day at work today so I started adding old runs from garmin connect over to Strava. I find garmin connect so cumbersome to use these days that I rarely look back on my runs from prior to 2015 which is when I signed up for Strava.

Today I transferred my runs from Dec 2010 when I got my first GPS watch through the end of 2011. I will eventually transfer everything from 2012-2014.

Some highlights:

First run with the GPS watch, I wasn’t always running sub 8 minute miles.

First time breaking 20 in a 5K.

The first and hopefully only time that I was forced into the medical tent.

It is fun looking back on these older runs, I wish I had my HRM back then.  I got one May 2012.

 

[gianmarco]

Slow day at work today so I started adding old runs from garmin connect over to Strava. I find garmin connect so cumbersome to use these days that I rarely look back on my runs from prior to 2015 which is when I signed up for Strava.

Today I transferred my runs from Dec 2010 when I got my first GPS watch through the end of 2011. I will eventually transfer everything from 2012-2014.

Some highlights:

First run with the GPS watch, I wasn’t always running sub 8 minute miles.

First time breaking 20 in a 5K.

The first and hopefully only time that I was forced into the medical tent.

It is fun looking back on these older runs, I wish I had my HRM back then.  I got one May 2012.

There's a site that can do this for you.  Try this.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Slow day at work today so I started adding old runs from garmin connect over to Strava. I find garmin connect so cumbersome to use these days that I rarely look back on my runs from prior to 2015 which is when I signed up for Strava.

Today I transferred my runs from Dec 2010 when I got my first GPS watch through the end of 2011. I will eventually transfer everything from 2012-2014.

Some highlights:

First run with the GPS watch, I wasn’t always running sub 8 minute miles.

First time breaking 20 in a 5K.

The first and hopefully only time that I was forced into the medical tent.

It is fun looking back on these older runs, I wish I had my HRM back then.  I got one May 2012.

I'll bet you wish you had a heart rate monitor back then.

 

[Brony]

Slow day at work today so I started adding old runs from garmin connect over to Strava. I find garmin connect so cumbersome to use these days that I rarely look back on my runs from prior to 2015 which is when I signed up for Strava.

I was playing around with Strava and realized that in order to download your data, you have to go to the "I'm ready to quit" part of Strava and ask for your data.  Took about 5 hours between request and getting the email with the data, but they send you everything. 

I was surprised that outside of March and April this year, I've put in a consistent chunk of miles each month since Dec 2016.  It was also much easier to see in Excel the relationship between mileage and race results - no huge surprises, but best times lagged effort by ~ 2 months.  When I was at 85 to 100 miles per month (regardless of how I get there), I got the best times. 

 

[pbm107]

There's a site that can do this for you.  Try this. 

It's not clear to me this this will transfer files that have already been uploaded to garmin to strava.

 

[pbm107]

It was also much easier to see in Excel the relationship between mileage and race results

Yeah I have a spreadsheet that I use to evaluate to my current and past fitness.

 

[gianmarco]

It's not clear to me this this will transfer files that have already been uploaded to garmin to strava.

I used it once before and I think it does.  Back when I was using my wife's watch, it was a pain trying to sync because we each had our own Garmin account.  So I would have to go in and delete her runs.  I forgot exactly when/why, but I eventually got my new watch and deleted stuff and used that site to get things added back and I think it did a good job.  I remember it taking like 24 hours to complete and show up but it worked. 

 

[JShare87]

I’m sure I am supposed to know what the following terms mean, but I do not. A little help for the idiot in the group.

SOS

GB

 

[gianmarco]

I’m sure I am supposed to know what the following terms mean, but I do not. A little help for the idiot in the group.

SOS

GB

GB = Good buddy

SOS = "something" of substance. I think. But what it means is a workout that requires effort (like intervals, tempo, repeats, etc).

 

[JShare87]

GB = Good buddy

SOS = "something" of substance. I think. But what it means is a workout that requires effort (like intervals, tempo, repeats, etc).

I figured that’s what SOS meant but had no clue why everyone around here called people GB. Thanks, GB.

 

[-OZ-]

You're making the 86/69 I'm about to go out in seem comfortably cool.  Preciated.

..!.. 

Mid 90s, 70dp today here, running in the morning isn't so bad.

That's what I ran in yesterday. Will do so again this afternoon.

I decided to use the heat as the vehicle to snap me out of this mental funk. I'm gonna #BMF this sheeeit this week dammit. 

Get some.

I do think running in the heat helped me a lot during last year's Rocketman. Just prepare to stink.

 

[Brony]

I figured that’s what SOS meant but had no clue why everyone around here called people GB. Thanks, GB.

What was in your head that GB stood for? Good Burger? Green Bay?

 

[-OZ-]

What was in your head that GB stood for? Good Burger? Green Bay?

Gigabyte

Guillain-Barré

Genius bar

Grey beard

 

[ChiefD]

What was in your head that GB stood for? Good Burger? Green Bay?

Gargantuan Boner?

We’ve all had that after a good run or race.

 

[gianmarco]

Gargantuan Boner?

We’ve all had that after a good run or race.

I've never had that....

 

[tri-man 47]

I figured that’s what SOS meant but had no clue why everyone around here called people GB. Thanks, GB.

Old people talk funny.    

 

[tri-man 47]

I've never had that....

It’s not after one of your own, it’s after one of our efforts.  So geez, I guess you just don’t care that much.  Heck, with all the BMFing at the KT82 relay, I was afraid I’d poke a hole straight through Chief’s canopy cover.

 

[SFBayDuck]

It’s not after one of your own, it’s after one of our efforts.  So geez, I guess you just don’t care that much.  Heck, with all the BMFing at the KT82 relay, I was afraid I’d poke a hole straight through Chief’s canopy cover.

More like tripod man, amirite?

 

[ChiefD]

More like tripod man, amirite?

He’s so tall he could host a gawdang circus.

 

[gianmarco]

Thursday's your day in the barrel.

 

[BassNBrew]

Big bounce back tonight in the 95/66 furnace.  Got in 10.7 in 2 hours @ 149 hr.  Pace improved from 13'01" on Sunday to 11'12" with only a 4 bpm increase.

 

[BassNBrew]

http://www.backatsquarezero.com/2017/06/09/how-the-heat-affects-running-pace/

Hmmm...maybe there's a reason I've fallen off the cliff.  Apparently the heat is causing me to by 20%+ slower.  Does anyone know if that applies after you've done some heat adaptation training?

 

[gianmarco]

http://www.backatsquarezero.com/2017/06/09/how-the-heat-affects-running-pace/

Hmmm...maybe there's a reason I've fallen off the cliff.  Apparently the heat is causing me to by 20%+ slower.  Does anyone know if that applies after you've done some heat adaptation training?

Yes, it still affects performance. Up to 6% for anything over SI 150. That can be 30-40 seconds per mile difference.