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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (14 Viewers)

MAC_32 said:
I usually scroll past shoe talk because I don't care about shoe's, but could I get a cliff notes review on vaporflys? Not anything I'll consider this year, but just seeing if it's something I want to at least consider in 2020.
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One analogy I read is that the carbon (or whatever it is inside) is like a spatula ...I can very noticeably feel the balancing point where, as I lean forward (or while running, stride forward), the shoe rocks forward and helps to launch the next stride.  And yes, they're lightweight (7 oz); the heel comes to a point in the back instead of a big, padded mass ('cause we shouldn't be heel strikers anyway); the laces move down the outside of the shoe instead straight down the peak. (avoiding stress); the upper material is paper thin.

Will they help everyone?  To some degree, but I'd say less so for plodders and heel strikers.  But for the latter, it's actually excellent for training ...it encourages the leg lift and a proper plant.  On my first run, I scuffed the bottom of the shoes when I didn't lift and land properly.  I quickly adjusted and became more alert to the leg lift and plant.  I have the sense that the faster I run, the more benefit I gain as I maximize the use of that "spring pad."  

 
Zasada said:
Read the article!  :boxing:

Slower marathon runners actually benefit more than faster marathon runners.  Slower runners see a 5-7% benefit and faster is 4%.
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This sloth like runner wonders if that gain is linear or exponential?

 
Checking in. Not sure who checks Strava frequently, but about 2 weeks ago I mentioned my knee giving out and having to essentially limp home. That same day, knee felt fine and was able to continue activities as usual. Fast forward to Monday and it happened again. This time, as I came down on my right leg, my knee buckled pretty severely. To the point where it’s like I stepped on a nail. Once I felt the buckle, I hopped up because it hurt really bad. I made it home about 2 more miles without much of an issue.

I went out yesterday and after the first mile, I began to limp bad. I decided to be smart and shut it down. At work and all through the day yesterday, I could tell something was wrong. It would buckle when I walked, and when I would get up from a seated position. Still thinking it would be okay, I tried to jog for about 5 seconds, not happening. I have no idea what is wrong, there is no swelling and I am not in any pain. When it does buckle or there is pain, it’s on the lower front/outside portion of my knee. This leads me to think it’s an IT band issue. I have no experience with that but it doesn’t seem right because my knee just feels completely unstable. 
 

I am really bummed out because this seems to always happen right when I am on the verge of a huge gain in fitness. It’s like I put in all this work, and then another injury comes out of nowhere. Usually lasts for a few weeks, and then I have to start back from square one with my fitness. I know it’s pretty insignificant to what many people face, but again, I’m really not taking this well. 

 
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Damn, sorry @JShare87. Have you at least gone to the doc to have him do a stability check? Might be worth a shot to see if you are injured with something serious.

 
ChiefD said:
Damn, sorry @JShare87. Have you at least gone to the doc to have him do a stability check? Might be worth a shot to see if you are injured with something serious.
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Probably going to the walk-in Ortho tomorrow. I am just not going to be okay with not running. It’s the same leg I have the Sciatic issue with, and the same leg that caused me to miss time last year due to lower leg problems. 

 
JShare87 said:
Probably going to the walk-in Ortho tomorrow. I am just not going to be okay with not running. It’s the same leg I have the Sciatic issue with, and the same leg that caused me to miss time last year due to lower leg problems. 
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Hoping the best for you. 

 
Hopefully you get some good news, @JShare87. That sounds like it sucks big time. Hopefully something minor and some simple rehab will straighten it out instead of anything serious.

 
JShare87 said:
This time, as I came down on my right leg, my knee buckled pretty severely. To the point where it’s like I stepped on a nail. Once I felt the buckle, I hopped up because it hurt really bad.
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I've had random occurrences, when I know my legs are very fatigued, where I land a stride and then feel the leg/knee wobble ...though not buckle as it did for you.  I've viewed it as a function of fatigue ...the muscle strength not keeping up with the fitness effort.  I don't know if some strength work will be part of the solution for you or not.  Hopefully, though, the current damage is mild and you're on the mend soon.

 
On a different note, I'm here to solicit advice I make no promises to follow! :D  

Saturday is my HM race, you might have heard me mention it once or twice! Anyway, I've been debating how I want to race it - from just treating it like an easy training run with a lot of friends (about a .03% chance) up to trying to run sub 1:40... My PR is 1:43:22 from May.

So, tonight I went out for one last hard run. I had a dream of doing a semi la-ti-da 6.6 at a 7:35 ish pace and, if I could do it, then I'd be really convinced to give the 1:40 a go. Well, it was fairly far from a la-ti-da effort but I did 6.6 in 50:13 or 7:36 pace. It was 85*, "feels like 89" out there, and no crowds but my HR was definitely in the "taxed" range before I finished. It's supposed to only be about 50 +/- Saturday morning, which definitley will be nicer than 85ish. 

So, all that in there, I am the type of guy that has to have some kind of plan or I'm likely to just go out and blow myself up. Main goal is to be ready for 26.2 on 11/9 but I really don't think there is any reason I can't race Saturday, right? But with all that, what goal would you recommend? Run at 7:35ish to start with plan to give it all I can for as long as I can? Go out at PR pace and pick it up if I feel good later? Something less? More? Other?

Other than rf;dbap!, what advice you have for me? 

 
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The Iguana said:
On a different note, I'm here to solicit advice I make no promises to follow! :D  

Saturday is my HM race, you might have heard me mention it once or twice! Anyway, I've been debating how I want to race it - from just treating it like an easy training run with a lot of friends (about a .03% chance) up to trying to run sub 1:40... My PR is 1:43:22 from May.

So, tonight I went out for one last hard run. I had a dream of doing a semi la-ti-da 6.6 at a 7:35 ish pace and, if I could do it, then I'd be really convinced to give the 1:40 a go. Well, it was fairly far from a la-ti-da effort but I did 6.6 in 50:13 or 7:36 pace. It was 85*, "feels like 89" out there, and no crowds but my HR was definitely in the "taxed" range before I finished. It's supposed to only be about 50 +/- Saturday morning, which definitley will be nicer than 85ish. 

So, all that in there, I am the type of guy that has to have some kind of plan or I'm likely to just go out and blow myself up. Main goal is to be ready for 26.2 on 11/9 but I really don't think there is any reason I can't race Saturday, right? But with all that, what goal would you recommend? Run at 7:35ish to start with plan to give it all I can for as long as I can? Go out at PR pace and pick it up if I feel good later? Something less? More? Other?

Other than rf;dbap!, what advice you have for me? 
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With that weather and a month to go before the marathon - I’m going for it.

 
The Iguana said:
On a different note, I'm here to solicit advice I make no promises to follow! :D  

Saturday is my HM race, you might have heard me mention it once or twice! Anyway, I've been debating how I want to race it - from just treating it like an easy training run with a lot of friends (about a .03% chance) up to trying to run sub 1:40... My PR is 1:43:22 from May.

So, tonight I went out for one last hard run. I had a dream of doing a semi la-ti-da 6.6 at a 7:35 ish pace and, if I could do it, then I'd be really convinced to give the 1:40 a go. Well, it was fairly far from a la-ti-da effort but I did 6.6 in 50:13 or 7:36 pace. It was 85*, "feels like 89" out there, and no crowds but my HR was definitely in the "taxed" range before I finished. It's supposed to only be about 50 +/- Saturday morning, which definitley will be nicer than 85ish. 

So, all that in there, I am the type of guy that has to have some kind of plan or I'm likely to just go out and blow myself up. Main goal is to be ready for 26.2 on 11/9 but I really don't think there is any reason I can't race Saturday, right? But with all that, what goal would you recommend? Run at 7:35ish to start with plan to give it all I can for as long as I can? Go out at PR pace and pick it up if I feel good later? Something less? More? Other?

Other than rf;dbap!, what advice you have for me? 
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What HM race are you running? 

If its the Wineglass half in NY, I’m leading the 1:40 pace group!

 
The Iguana said:
. 

So, all that in there, I am the type of guy that has to have some kind of plan or I'm likely to just go out and blow myself up. Main goal is to be ready for 26.2 on 11/9 but I really don't think there is any reason I can't race Saturday, right? But with all that, what goal would you recommend? Run at 7:35ish to start with plan to give it all I can for as long as I can? Go out at PR pace and pick it up if I feel good later? Something less? More? Other?
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A month between the HM and marathon seems ideal IMO. I'm doing the same, 11/9 - December 7.  The marathon isn't going to hold my HM back. Although I'm not sure I'd taper for the HM, maybe just a cut back week leading to it.

 
The Iguana said:
On a different note, I'm here to solicit advice I make no promises to follow! :D  

Saturday is my HM race, you might have heard me mention it once or twice! Anyway, I've been debating how I want to race it - from just treating it like an easy training run with a lot of friends (about a .03% chance) up to trying to run sub 1:40... My PR is 1:43:22 from May.

So, tonight I went out for one last hard run. I had a dream of doing a semi la-ti-da 6.6 at a 7:35 ish pace and, if I could do it, then I'd be really convinced to give the 1:40 a go. Well, it was fairly far from a la-ti-da effort but I did 6.6 in 50:13 or 7:36 pace. It was 85*, "feels like 89" out there, and no crowds but my HR was definitely in the "taxed" range before I finished. It's supposed to only be about 50 +/- Saturday morning, which definitley will be nicer than 85ish. 

So, all that in there, I am the type of guy that has to have some kind of plan or I'm likely to just go out and blow myself up. Main goal is to be ready for 26.2 on 11/9 but I really don't think there is any reason I can't race Saturday, right? But with all that, what goal would you recommend? Run at 7:35ish to start with plan to give it all I can for as long as I can? Go out at PR pace and pick it up if I feel good later? Something less? More? Other?

Other than rf;dbap!, what advice you have for me? 
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You're in a great place.  Go out at your sub 1:40 pace.  If it is starts feeling a little too difficult, slow down a bit knowing you got over a three minute PR buffer.  That buffer might also be nice for the last few miles if you start blowing up.  Also, if you start accidentally beating your 1:40 pace splits and feel good, roll with it.

 
-OZ- said:
A month between the HM and marathon seems ideal IMO. I'm doing the same, 11/9 - December 7.  The marathon isn't going to hold my HM back. Although I'm not sure I'd taper for the HM, maybe just a cut back week leading to it.
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Honestly, I think a month is a little tight.  I wouldn't race a half less than 6 weeks before a marathon, and I tend to recovery quickly.  But that's just me.

 
@JShare87 it's great that you're going to see a doctor.  Hopefully it's not serious, and I'm sorry this is happening just as you're getting to peak fitness.  I'll be sending good vibes to FL.  

@The Iguana, I'd go for the PR but if you're 50% of the way in and it's looking dicey, you might want to call an audible and slow the pace.  Lots of time before the marathon, but you don't want to go at 105% effort and injure yourself.  Plenty of time to recover from a race effort, just not enough time to recover from an injury.  Race smart.

 
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JShare87 said:
Probably going to the walk-in Ortho tomorrow. I am just not going to be okay with not running. It’s the same leg I have the Sciatic issue with, and the same leg that caused me to miss time last year due to lower leg problems. 
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Best of luck, GB.  Hopefully nothing serious.

 
My right glute was really painful yesterday for the last 3K of my 20K, and this morning it was hurting right from the start of my ER (normally it only gets painful near the end).

So I finally have an appointment this weekend for a sports massage.  First time getting any kind of massage, ever.  So I'd be nervous to begin with, but even more so with some woman rubbing my butt for an hour.  I'm hoping she's 75 and 300lbs.

 
So @The Iguana - I went and looked at my training calendar for Carmel. 3 weeks out from that race I was running 6 days a week with speed work and did a 16 miler on the weekend.  And I'm generally on the lower scale of guys here in terms of mileage.  I was at 54 miles for that week.

So the way I see it, with 4 weeks to go after this weekend, I don't see a reason not to race this. As long as you are smart about it. You haven't really beaten yourself up with mileage, so it may be good to have some tired legs going into next week so you can build on that.

 
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ChiefD said:
So @The Iguana - I went and looked at my training calendar for Carmel. 3 weeks out from that race I was running 6 days a week with speed work and did a 16 miler on the weekend.  And I'm generally on the lower scale of guys here in terms of mileage. 

So the way I see it, with 4 weeks to go after this weekend, I don't see a reason not to race this. As long as you are smart about it. You haven't really beaten yourself up with mileage, so it may be good to have some tired legs going into next week so you can build on that.
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Oh, I have some tired legs. After the 20 last saturday, my legs were heavy as all get out on Monday. Tuesday ended up being some weights/cross stuff. Last night felt ok but I'm definitely feeling it today too. 

My mind is kind of in the place @Juxtatarot laid out - go out at a pace for 1:40 and see how things go. I can adjust up/down depending on how things feel. 

 
ChiefD said:
That 10 day out forecast for Chicago looks pretty dang good @Juxtatarot. A few degrees cooler would be better, but not bad. 
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Thanks!  As long as it's under 60, I'm happy.  This will be a weird marathon for me.  It will be the first time I've run one without trying to PR.

 
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@The Iguana race it, but an 6 easy miles both tonight and Sunday are also priority. That'd get you north of 40 miles for the week, which is most important for November's purposes. Isn't any time for a step back week as far as miles are concerned.

 
PS:  Give me the rainy, 52-degree weather from my run last night ALL DAY LONG over 65-70 degrees and sunny.

 
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Juxtatarot said:
Thanks!  As long as it's under 60, I'm happy.  There will be a weird marathon for me.  It will be the first time I've run one without trying to PR.
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I was actually thinking the other day how I won't be trying to PR either of my back-to-back European marathons next May, either.  I think the last time I wasn't either racing or pacing was Warsaw 2016.  Definitely a weird feeling.

 
gruecd said:
Honestly, I think a month is a little tight.  I wouldn't race a half less than 6 weeks before a marathon, and I tend to recovery quickly.  But that's just me.
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Ok. We all have to know ourselves. 

I'm realizing I don't give EVERYTHING I have in a race, perhaps I should change that and when I do, recovery may take longer. 

Edit: it does make a difference that I'm not trying to BQ or PR in December. Just looking to have fun in that one.

 
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gruecd said:
PS:  Give me the rainy, 52-degree weather from my run last night ALL DAY LONG over 65-70 degrees and sunny.
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Weather for my run last night was 85 temp with a dew point of 67 = 152

Weather for tonights run will be 60 temp with a dew point of 46 = 106

I literally have a boner thinking about tonight's run.  :pickle:

 
ChiefD said:
I literally have a boner thinking about tonight's run. 
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:oldunsure:

Tuesday morning here I ran in -9C (16F).  Even for Calgary, that's cold for September.  Set a record, actually.  Been warming-up slowly, but the last couple days have been below freezing as well.

Went with just a long-sleeve quarter-zip and shorts all week and it's actually quite pleasant.  The first 10 minutes or so I feel chilly but after that it's quite fresh.

 
Zasada said:
:oldunsure:

Tuesday morning here I ran in -9C (16F).  Even for Calgary, that's cold for September.  Set a record, actually.  Been warming-up slowly, but the last couple days have been below freezing as well.

Went with just a long-sleeve quarter-zip and shorts all week and it's actually quite pleasant.  The first 10 minutes or so I feel chilly but after that it's quite fresh.
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My man.  :fistbump:

 
Zasada said:
:oldunsure:

Tuesday morning here I ran in -9C (16F).  Even for Calgary, that's cold for September.  Set a record, actually.  Been warming-up slowly, but the last couple days have been below freezing as well.

Went with just a long-sleeve quarter-zip and shorts all week and it's actually quite pleasant.  The first 10 minutes or so I feel chilly but after that it's quite fresh.
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Holy crap - no f'n way I could do that.  Going to be a balmy 96 here today.  :mellow:

 
AAABatteries said:
Holy crap - no f'n way I could do that.  Going to be a balmy 96 here today.  :mellow:
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Just wait until it gets down to -30C (-22F).  Then I'm rocking three layers, big mittens, soft shell pants, a thick touque, and a neck gaiter. 

Which makes it "not that bad", honestly.  

 
I'm too lazy to dig it back up, but whoever told me I wouldn't run when in China because of the air was not joking.  Holy ####, it was soup every where we went.  Practically did not see the sun for 17 days.  I saw one small group of people running around a park one night, but that was it.    

Never been so happy to be home.  Little girl is doing great.   Its like she's been part of the family this whole time.  

It was 99 here yesterday, but I managed to slog thru a very slow run this morning.  I hope to get back in a groove sooner rather than later.  

 
The Iguana said:
what advice you have for me? 
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This HM is a means to an end ...a trial race to prep you for the marathon.  So my advice is to quit prejudging what's going to happen or even what you want to happen!  Go too slow, and you learn nothing and don't gain mental prep for pushing your limits in the marathon.  Go too fast and you'll be full of self-doubts for the next month.  I'd suggest just going out uncomfortably comfortable, let that change to comfortably uncomfortable in the second half, then push your limits for the final 5K.  See what your time is, and extrapolate (x 2.2 or so *) to a reasonable marathon time.  

* analysis by Steve C a few years ago:

Top marathoners - a marathon/HM ratio of about 2.1 ...Steve's crowd (2:20-2:40 marathoners) - a ratio of about 2.15

A few samples from this thread (updated 2-17-16):

1) pbm – 1:28:12 / 2:59:08 (2.03)

2) Gruecd – 1:27:01 / 2:59:48 (2.07)

3) Juxt – 1:22:36 / 2:58:20 (2.16)

4) Ned – 1:27:10 / 3:09:02 (2.17)

5) Hang 10 – 1:26:51 / 3:08:44 (2.17)

6) FUBAR – 1:31:57 / 3:28:36 (2.26)

7) Tri – 1:31:32 / 3:28:59 (2.28)

😎 Worrier - 1:42 / 4:02 (2.37)

I think a few things I am seeing is that the ratio is impacted a lot by overall training mileage, and whether you were destined to be a marathoner in the first place. I do believe that most people with sufficient training and optimal pacing can get their ratio down to the 2.15-2.25 range.

 
Just left the doctor. Nothing seems to be wrong structurally. Getting an MRI and some anti-inflammatory medicine. Went to the gym this morning and did legs. Didn’t hurt at all and no issues. Maybe I’ll try and head out for a few miles Friday or Saturday. 

 
JShare87 said:
Just left the doctor. Nothing seems to be wrong structurally. Getting an MRI and some anti-inflammatory medicine. Went to the gym this morning and did legs. Didn’t hurt at all and no issues. Maybe I’ll try and head out for a few miles Friday or Saturday. 
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Well, that's good news. Here's hoping the MRI is clean. 

 
ChiefD said:
Can you explain this to a math challenged dunderhead like me.

I know the 2 represents 2X your half pace. But what is the .15 - .25? Is that a percentage? Help me decipher this witchcraft.
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Just the ratio.  Your full marathon time is going to be 2.15x to 2.25x your HM time.

So for me, my full marathon was 236 minutes (3:56) and my half was 107 minutes (1:47).  236/107 = 2.2, which puts me right in the middle of that range!  I've always been so average.  :)

 
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