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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
El Floppo
Footballguy
I'm a high mineral sweater...during this and longer workouts, I end up like Elizabeth 1 with a pancake of white chalky sweat covering my face. Cramping was always an issue, going back to youth soccer.
For Tris, I narrowed down to taking LavaSalts, which IIRC had the best mix of electrolytes for my needs. Would take before and then every 45 mins or so.
I'd run with a a fuel belt w 4x 7oz bottles (and the LavaSalts and gels in the pouch). That felt the most comfortable to me vs other methods (big bottle on back or carried by hand, or Camelback type hydration packs).
gianmarco
Footballguy
bushdocda
Footballguy
Forget where I read it might have been Kelly Starett ‘Ready to Run’ book (I’ll check) mentioned adding salt regularly to water throughout the day to slowly help absorption during heat training.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
Just wanted to poke my head in - not much to update on my end, but I have been following all the good stuff going on in here. Managing to get decent summer mileage (for me), although definitely a lot of slow stuff due to both the heat and some aches. Still waiting to hear when I will have to be 100% in the office, which will put an end to my lunch runs during the week and most likely push them back into the evenings.
Also, some of you guys get up reeaaaally early. And sweat. A lot.
Also, some of you guys get up reeaaaally early. And sweat. A lot.
pbm107
Footballguy
To deal with the heat I have limited myself to 6 miles at a time before I stop back at the house to cool down a bit and drink some water. I used to change shirts but I now hang up my soaked shirt and put it back on after it is chilled by the air conditioning. This usually buys me a more comfortable 1st mile after the water stop.
JShare87
Footballguy
Lot of whining and complaining going on in here. A buddy of mine recommended I check this book out. Maybe you fellas should do the same.
Can't Hurt Me: Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544512287/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_gRJaFb0CX6VC4
Can't Hurt Me: Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544512287/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_gRJaFb0CX6VC4
El Floppo
Footballguy
How much are you drinking in 2+ hours?
That's cute.
I haven't even bothered with water during my 10-12m, 90ish min runs...
El Floppo
Footballguy
There was a tasteless electrolyte powder I was using in my water towards the end of my tri days.Id use that along with the pills..might still be around.How much are you drinking in 2+ hours?
That's cute.
I haven't even bothered with water during my 10-12m, 90ish min runs...
gianmarco
Footballguy
I drank 4L today. My CamelBak holds 2.5L, or 85 oz.
Despite drinking 4L during my long run, which obviously isn't the normal distance, but still, I was 7 pounds lighter than when I left.
Even on an 8-10 mile run, drinking 100 oz is normal and it's not enough.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
If you ran Western States you would literally disappear by Michigan Bluff (mile 55).
El Floppo
Footballguy
interesting.
I don't know if it was a thing from our coaches at the time, or just what I did... but I don't remember people in my tri club ever drinking during mid distance runs of less than 90 minutes. I didn't ever, and still don't; even in the heat, don't really feel the physical need for it. maybe I"m not pushing hard enough... dunno. so obviously, 100oz for 8-10m seems like a lot to me. for the marathon section of the IM I did, I had my 28oz of fuel belt bottles (which I tossed, because they were full of my IM cocktail I couldn't stomach from the after the 1st hour or so on the bike) and supplemented with on course liquids as needed. All the 1/2 IMs I did, I'd use the fuel belt with 28oz and avoid relying on the course for liquid other than water and sponges to cool down. The marathon I did, I used liquid on course. all the 1/2 marathons I've done... would get a drink at the end, and maybe a cup of water during.
is there some kind of new logic for this that I'm out of date on? not judging- just curious.
El Floppo
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
I don't carry water during the winter and have done fine.
It's this heat. And, I'm sweating more now than when it first got hot. I've always been a big sweater. I can go run 5-6 miles in this heat and not bring water (I did that on Friday). But I'm still down 4-5 pounds at the end and I'm feeling it by the end. More than 6 and I have to bring something along. I ran 14 miles 3 weeks ago and consumed 100 oz and it wasn't enough. I had finished all my water after 10 miles and the last 2-3 miles were a bear.
For the upcoming marathon, temps should be much better and much less humidity so I'm not as worried about the race itself. But training in this heat with any distance becomes problematic.
I'm going to see if I'm a big salt waster and try these salt tabs while running.
Of note, I'm filling the tank 2-3 days before drinking significant amounts and I'll drink a 20 oz Gatorade before starting to top the tank off. Still doesn't cut it.
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Zasada
Footballguy
Feels like I'm the same. I should weigh myself to quantify it someday. I have been running with 1L of water and it's never enough. Or at least it feels like it's never enough.I don't carry water during the winter and have done fine.
It's this heat. And, I'm sweating more now than when it first got hot. I've always been a big sweater. I can go run 5-6 miles in this heat and not bring water (I did that on Friday). But I'm still down 4-5 pounds at the end and I'm feeling it by the end. More than 6 and I have to bring something along. I ran 14 miles 3 weeks ago and consumed 100 oz and it wasn't enough. I had finished all my water after 10 miles and the last 2-3 miles were a bear.
For the upcoming marathon, temps should be much better and much less humidity so I'm not as worried about the race itself. But training in this heat with any distance becomes problematic.
I'm going to see if I'm a big salt waster and try these salt tabs while running.
Of note, I'm filling the tank 2-3 days before drinking significant amounts and I'll drink a 20 oz Gatorade before starting to top the tank off. Still doesn't cut it.
pbm107
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
I don't remember the last vacation I took without bringing running stuff. It's my break from the kids. Hold my beer.
There's a reason I don't run more than an hour in the summer. Cycling can be bad enough.
The first line shows how wicked smart you are.
But who wears a shirt in the summer?
gianmarco
Footballguy
Oh, I'm aware of that, but I know I'm fine there.
Remember that 14 miles takes me a lot longer than most of you. That's almost 2.5 hours for me. The general rule I've seen is 100-200mL every 15 minutes of exercise. With my larger size and excessive sweat, 1L per hour is pretty safe.
100 oz is 3L. So it's not that much more and I'm getting sodium from the GUs I'm taking. Plus, about 1/2L of that was after my run. But it's also why I need to see if even more salt can help. Despite all that sweating, I never get that white, salty residue on me or my clothes.
I wish keeping my runs shorter was an option. Training for a marathon in this sucks. Luckily we had a great spring and it's only been a few weeks of this.
gruecd
Footballguy
-OZ-
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Btw, I read the whole article. There are definitely things I don't agree with there. There are certainly more symptoms to dehydration than just thirst. I just read a bit more about Dr. Noakes and it appears he likes to be controversial.
Here's a good article that discusses his points. I think that's very reasonable. It also seems to suggest electrolyte/salt replacement for endurance activities.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
I was glad to read this, because there are no water fountains on my regular routes and I never take any with me. I've been thinking about getting a handheld though, as on runs like today (74min., 140SI at beginning, 150SI at end), I am definitely starting to cook by the end. I've considered pbm's looping idea, but for whatever reason I hate doubling back during any runs.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
On the way up to Michigan and our summer cottage, I stopped and bought my first handheld Nathan, 18 oz. water bottle. It's been too warm to wear a shirt, so I don't want to wear my fuel belt. The Nathan bottle works great. I do have to conserve my usage over the course of a run, but running in this heat is rather pointless (as others have mentioned) without taking in some fluids. Bonus: I'm comfortable with the bottle strapped on either hand.
Used Fleet Feet points for half the cost. Also stopped on the way here to use points from ****'s for a free Body Glide.
gianmarco
Footballguy
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JAA
Footballguy
Nice find!
ive tunes a lot of what was in the post but it still holds true. I can easily do a 90min run in this heat with no fluids and just GU.
Ive started using the salt licks on the longer bikes on the hot days. This is mainly because I’m trying to use less sugar drinks and eat more solid foods. Just kinda trying it and I think it helps me feel a little better while housing the PB sammich.
7lbs seems like a lot. Like a whole lot. I’ll drop maybe 5 but 7 feels too much.
ive got my watch to ding every 37 min on the run to take a GU. That works very well for me. Though I think for runs longer than 2 hours I would need more than just liquid. Not doing those distances now but they are coming.
Best of luck, I’d be very curious how it works out for you.
pbm107
Footballguy
I think it would be worthwhile for you to read Waterlogged, you would understand the material much more than I ever could. I’ll admit that I am a biased Noakes fan, I am agree with him on a lot of things but his recent tweets on COVID have me confused. He is controversial but was once fairly respected in the running community, and his book was a pretty big deal and respected when it came out.
I can’t imagine trying to run 14 miles and drink 100 oz of fluid, typically I don’t know how much I drink since I usually stop at water fountains. The water fountains around here are closed so I tried the flip belt water bottle during one of my 12 milers last week and the 11 oz was enough for me. For my 16 miler I am guessing I had somewhere between 16-20 oz during my water stops.
JAA
Footballguy
I’ve read that and heard it here.
i had been doing it before I’ve heard those things, so yea. I’ve heard it can be very bad if you take too much without taking on fluids.
When I’ve done long runs with fluids and GU I don’t notice a difference. So unless it’s a crazy scorcher I’ll leave the Nathan belt at home for the 10mi runs.
gianmarco
Footballguy
When I go and run 5ish miles, even at a slow pace, in these current conditions, I'll drop 4-5 pounds easily at the end of the run. I'd be happy to take some before and after weight pics to share. I've been doing that pretty regularly to try and get a feel for exactly how much I'm losing and how much to take in.
Believe me, I'm jealous of the vast majority of you that can get by without drinking much. And I never used to carry any water on any runs until recently. There is no doubt at this point that my HR climbs considerably as I get dehydrated. I'm thirsty. My mouth gets completely dry by the end, even on shorter runs. I've run with the 11oz bottles in my flip belt (that's what I used before i just got this hydration pack a couple weeks ago) and that can help get me to the end of a 6-7 mile run. In the past, when I've had a couple longer runs where I only hydrated at the car stops every few miles, I'll feel awful getting to the car, drink a good bit, and then after 5-10 minutes feel 1000x better with HR improvement. And I would do that by drinking at least 20-30oz when I stopped.
I'm telling you, it's awful. There's just no good way around it at this point. I can't carry enough to really keep up as things are. The 2.5L pack is heavy and, while trying it out last week on shorter runs to make sure it would be good for my longer run, I think I learned that it can impact my runs just carrying it. I struggled almost every run last week until the day I went out without it. And it wasn't from drinking it because I was wearing it to get a feel for it and make sure it didn't rub/chafe, etc. But if I don't bring water, then after a few miles, I'm toast.
Unfortunately, getting out really early isn't an option when I don't get home until 7:30am 3x/week. And keeping all runs under 6 miles isn't an option either while training.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Are you able to add more sodium in the foods you eat as part of your diet? I did that quite a bit during my marathon training.
gianmarco
Footballguy
We've been consciously adding more salt to our food. I do most of the cooking and already use a good bit in general. We've been seeking out salty food (our Ramen intake over the last 2 weeks has increased dramatically!!). That's also why I'm trying out these salt tabs in addition to that.
Also, just to clarify, even when we bumped up our volume during the winter for our base building, none of this was an issue. I actually ran more from Dec-March than I am now with significantly more double digit runs. I never carried water. I never felt dehydrated. Diet the same then as it is now. My wife, doing these same runs as me (and more) in these same conditions does just fine with her 11oz bottle in her flipbelt.
This is 100% related to my sweating and how much I'm losing in each run with the heat/humidity.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Nope. I will run 10 miles on no water ever, even in the middle of the day.
On my morning runs, I will almost never take water and am okay up to 15 miles in 68-70 dew point....I can go to 20 miles with no water in dew point of 65 degrees or lower.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
That's what I was looking into yesterday when I decided I needed to try something. I had it between that and the SaltStick capsules. I opted for the latter as I can just pop a capsule and drink with water and don't have to worry about mixing anything.
If those don't work or help, I'll try Nuun next.
The crazy thing is I never have cramping and my sweat is crystal clear. So I don't THINK I'm losing excessive sodium and really do think my intake is more than sufficient, but I don't know what else to consider.
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SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Nuun is super easy. Just a tablet you can drop in your water bottle and it dissolves. Gives it a touch of flavor (think about flat flavored seltzer).
They offer caffeinated tablets too if that's your thing.
The only downside is they are significantly more enjoyable in cold water, so if you can jam ice cubes in your water bottle so the water stays cool, its nicer.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'll consider it if these caps don't work. I hate caffeinated. And I don't really like flavored water at all. I prefer regular water and it's what I drink almost exclusively all day. I don't drink soda and almost never drink any juices.
ChiefD
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
I've watched so many different "you have to do it this way" methods of training/eating/drinking/whatever over the years, I wasn't sure if I had just missed something in the 10-15 years since I last did consistent training.
MAC_32
Footballguy
@gianmarco, I'll bet there are consumption adjustments you can make so your body behaves more efficiently, but I also think it's important to remember that these conditions are just harder on us bigger people. Don't set the bar at the levels of our smaller friends have established. Just try to improve future you in comparison to current you. I've figured out what works for me, but am ignorant to anything beyond it. All I'll say is listen to their suggestions. I went through something similar a few years ago and made adjustments based on the peanut gallery's feedback until I consistently got through my runs without incident.
But there may be more that you can do beyond just intake. And I realize I'm a broken record at this point about recovery running, but I wonder if your easy runs were ran easier if it would have a positive influence on the amount of fluids necessary for your more demanding workouts. I think consistently running hot has a cumulative effect that gets exacerbated in these conditions. If I recall you've always been in that 140 HR neighborhood on your easy running - is that too hot? I don't know, maybe. But not something worth working on until after this cycle is over. Regardless, I've noticed you've done a good job of staying around there, but in the runs leading into Sunday's long that HR creep was loud and clear. Compare what you did in the lead-up to this long run to the prior two:
7/3 HR by mile: 140-147-149-153-153-154. 7/2: 135-142-147-152-152-157. 7/1: 138-143-148-149.
6/20: 133-136-141-142. 6/19: 133-138-132-123-137-146-153 6/18: 140-141-141-142-143
6/13: off 6/12: 137-143-141 6/11: 138-145-142-146
You did one mile total > 150 in the three days heading into the weekend long the last two times. But this week you did 6. And a few more in the high 140's. So while yesterday's long run conditions were quite miserable and played a big role in the demands it put on your body I think that cumulative effect throughout the week also played a role on that particular run. Mother nature isn't something you have control over, but effort on easy runs? You do.
But there may be more that you can do beyond just intake. And I realize I'm a broken record at this point about recovery running, but I wonder if your easy runs were ran easier if it would have a positive influence on the amount of fluids necessary for your more demanding workouts. I think consistently running hot has a cumulative effect that gets exacerbated in these conditions. If I recall you've always been in that 140 HR neighborhood on your easy running - is that too hot? I don't know, maybe. But not something worth working on until after this cycle is over. Regardless, I've noticed you've done a good job of staying around there, but in the runs leading into Sunday's long that HR creep was loud and clear. Compare what you did in the lead-up to this long run to the prior two:
7/3 HR by mile: 140-147-149-153-153-154. 7/2: 135-142-147-152-152-157. 7/1: 138-143-148-149.
6/20: 133-136-141-142. 6/19: 133-138-132-123-137-146-153 6/18: 140-141-141-142-143
6/13: off 6/12: 137-143-141 6/11: 138-145-142-146
You did one mile total > 150 in the three days heading into the weekend long the last two times. But this week you did 6. And a few more in the high 140's. So while yesterday's long run conditions were quite miserable and played a big role in the demands it put on your body I think that cumulative effect throughout the week also played a role on that particular run. Mother nature isn't something you have control over, but effort on easy runs? You do.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
And here I thought you hung out in your study slamming beet juice all day. Mental image ruined.
gruecd
Footballguy
Hey @tri-man 47, just in case you're entertaining any thoughts of joining the ultra scene and need a goal, Doyle Carpenter just set a new 48-hour record of 144.56 miles in the M80-84 age group this past weekend.
gruecd
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
Oh, don't worry. I was very aware of my higher than normal HR this week. I figured it might lead to trouble this weekend. I was also aware you probably saw it and I thought about it and even joked about it with @gruecd as it crept up each run.
The funny thing is I actually felt great for almost the entire run yesterday. Even toward the end, when I looked down and saw 175, I didn't feel bad at all. I took a short 1 minute break to make sure I could finish ok. It wasn't until the very last mile that I felt off yesterday, which, all things considered I'll take. And I feel great today. Unfortunately, the issue wasn't how I felt yesterday but the fact that I had to drink 4L and it still wasn't enough. I can't practically solve the issue of that volume so I need to find a way to decrease losses, if possible.
This week I'll run as slow as it takes to stay in the low 140s.
gruecd
Footballguy
bushdocda
Footballguy
Found the bit in ‘Ready to Run’ about adding salt to water throughout day and it’s just that simple. Add a pinch to your bottle/glass and it will help the water absorb. Did it last summer and one prior, grew to like it and now I sit here with a nice cold glass of ‘pinchasaltwater’. Makes sense to me to build it up in your system as opposed to high dosing it during a workout or race. Anyway #notadoctor
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think that's encouraging - the feeling good despite the high HR part. All I am trying to convey is that while you typically consume a lot of water during your runs that perhaps you needed to consume so much yesterday because of those higher effort runs in the days prior. If you run easier in the lead-up to your next higher quality efforts while you'll still likely need substantially more fluids than a normal human being perhaps you'll need less than in that particular effort.
This was one of the takeaway's that I had when I went through my adjustment period. One hand held was not enough to get through many runs over an hour. But I think running too hot in my other runs was at least partially to blame. There were other adjustments I made, but ever since I've slowed down on the glue runs I now routinely finish 75-90 minute runs without finishing my hand held. And when i do it's usually because I had enough in there halfway to justify squeezing it over my head a couple times rather than consuming it. My body's not working as hard at that particular pace, so i don't need as many fluids to keep myself replenished. And I get you're running a lot longer than 90 minutes right now - if I ever do another October marathon I'm sure I'll have to adjust. That's just my basis of comparison.
gianmarco
Footballguy
And to clarify, I didn't have the hydration pack for my 14 mile run three weeks ago. While my HR wasn't as bad, I felt considerably worse and more fatigued that run as I didn't drink as much as yesterday and it was more at a couple specific times.
During that run, I only had my 11 oz bottle. I preloaded with a 20oz Gatorade half hour before I started. I drank my 11oz during the first 5.5 miles (mostly during miles 3-4). Then drank about 20 oz at the car and refilled. At about the 8 mile mark, my 11 oz was already done so I stopped at the bathroom that was open, drank 2 bottles (another ~20 oz) and refilled. I already felt behind at that point. That 11 oz was done by ~11 miles. I didn't have anything left for the final 3 miles. That was a total of about 75 oz (~2L) for 2 hr and 15 minutes.
I did a great job hydrating yesterday. I felt great for 17 miles. But 4L is impractical.
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