Ran a 10k - Official Thread (8 Viewers)

[Juxtatarot]

A 17 mile run yesterday and a 60 mile week are highs for me this year.  I think it's time to start stretching things out a little before marathon training starts -- whenever that is. 

I definitively want to run at least 60 per week going forward but I'm not sure how much more.  I'm going to base it on how I feel.  My hamstrings don't like the long runs but I think they'll get used to it.  I've noticed my endurance isn't where I'd want it but that's OK. I have plenty of time.

 

[xulf]

I have been sick for the past two weeks which has coincided with the start of my training.  I've lost 7 pounds in that time and I'm now below 170    My runs have been a struggle in terms of effort and elevated HR, but I've pushed through, so far.  I was the last one in my family to get this and everyone else is over it, so hopefully it will be gone in the next day or two.

@El Floppo - congratulations on leaving your job.  It's better to get out early than too late when the environment feels toxic or just not right.  Enjoy the time off!  I just left mine at the end of May with nothing in place and I've been hitting up the pool 4/5 times a week with the family; nice and relaxing.  We also have a longer vacation planned for mid July and I'm not really going to start figuring things out until that is over.

@-OZ-, @SteelCurtain, @JAA - love seeing the races   Way to represent 

Happy Fathers Day to all the dads.  Enjoy the family today 

 

[-OZ-]

Completely underestimated the challenge of a HM every month while training for tri and racing, especially if I taper at all. Haven't done one in June yet so that's probably next weekend. 

July 10 - wet dog tri

I'll squeeze one in around the 17th or 24th

August 7 - Huntsville tri (will be my first reverse and my first pool tri)

August 22 - rocket man oly (calling this my A race)

Not real sure when in August, probably the 29th if I'm up to it. 

So by the end of the summer I'll have done a regular sprint, a reverse sprint, an Olympic, and a HIM. plus a 10k and a monthly HM.  I won't be racing the HMs, pretty sure I'll be better off just treating them like long runs, maybe with alternating miles (over/under)? 

Have I mentioned that I don't like to run in the summer? 

 

[pbm107]

I definitively want to run at least 60 per week going forward but I'm not sure how much more.

This is what I have been trying to do starting a couple weeks ago, but this past week I had to an unplanned day off due to knee pain. Something about going to beach causes knee pain that usually goes away after a day off.

I've noticed my endurance isn't where I'd want it

Same here, there's time but that is where I am weakest right now. I'm feeling good about my running efficiency though.

I have a bit of a challenge ahead of me in the next 3 weeks, I'll be on travel for work on third shift and my formal training starts the last week. I may have to break my runs into doubles as I won't be able to get out for my normal early morning runs.

 

[BassNBrew]

Garmin fenix 6 Sapphire, Premium Multisport GPS Watch, Features Mapping, Music, Grade-Adjusted Pace Guidance and Pulse Ox Sensors, Carbon Gray DLC with Black Band....$300 off Prime Day Deal.  Thoughts?

 

[SteelCurtain]

Garmin fenix 6 Sapphire, Premium Multisport GPS Watch, Features Mapping, Music, Grade-Adjusted Pace Guidance and Pulse Ox Sensors, Carbon Gray DLC with Black Band....$300 off Prime Day Deal.  Thoughts?

I'm 50 years old, so this might be a "get off my lawn" type of comment. 

I've heard multiple people in my general age bracket (give or take 7 years on either side) and they all complained about the touch screen of their garmin watch.  I think it was too small and with sweaty hands, it often ended up doing something they didn't intend.

I know nothing about the Garmin Fenix 6 and whether it even has a touch screen, so I just share that tidbit of information.

When I need to replace my watch, no touchscreen will be one of the most important parts of my decision making. 

 

[-OZ-]

I'm 50 years old, so this might be a "get off my lawn" type of comment. 

I've heard multiple people in my general age bracket (give or take 7 years on either side) and they all complained about the touch screen of their garmin watch.  I think it was too small and with sweaty hands, it often ended up doing something they didn't intend.

I know nothing about the Garmin Fenix 6 and whether it even has a touch screen, so I just share that tidbit of information.

When I need to replace my watch, no touchscreen will be one of the most important parts of my decision making. 

I didn't at first, but I really like my Suunto without touchscreen. 

 

[Zasada]

I know nothing about the Garmin Fenix 6 and whether it even has a touch screen, so I just share that tidbit of information.

When I need to replace my watch, no touchscreen will be one of the most important parts of my decision making. 

Fenix lineup is non-touchscreen.

Looks like a good deal if you're in the market for a Fenix watch.  I really like my Fenix 5+.  Will probably upgrade at some point in the future.  Not really out of necessity, just because I like toys.

 

[BassNBrew]

I didn't at first, but I really like my Suunto without touchscreen. 

I've a Suunto person and like their watches.  Been doing more hiking so I'm looking for something with mapping and long battery life.

 

[lumpy19]

Garmin fenix 6 Sapphire, Premium Multisport GPS Watch, Features Mapping, Music, Grade-Adjusted Pace Guidance and Pulse Ox Sensors, Carbon Gray DLC with Black Band....$300 off Prime Day Deal.  Thoughts?

I have the Fenix 5 sapphire and love it. I never take it off and the face has survived some real brutal stuff without a scratch.  Battery life is ridiculously good(I charge it maybe once a week).

 

[Zasada]

I've a Suunto person and like their watches.  Been doing more hiking so I'm looking for something with mapping and long battery life.

I don't know how Suunto battery life compares.  But I generally lose about 10%/day on my Fenix when not using GPS.  And about 10%/hour when using GPS.  I think the Fenix 6 is better.

There's an ultra-track mode which extends GPS battery life significantly, but at the cost of sampling rate.

 

[bostonfred]

Heard an interesting stat that losing a pound of weight usually improves your time by about 1 to 2 seconds per mile.  Is that right?  Anyone with similar experience?  

 

[gianmarco]

Heard an interesting stat that losing a pound of weight usually improves your time by about 1 to 2 seconds per mile.  Is that right?  Anyone with similar experience?  

Probably since I can confirm the inverse.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Heard an interesting stat that losing a pound of weight usually improves your time by about 1 to 2 seconds per mile.  Is that right?  Anyone with similar experience?  

I've heard that for every 5 lbs you lose (with everything else being equal), your marathon time will be 4 minutes faster.  I can't remember where I read it, but I did see that somewhere a couple years ago.

 

[bostonfred]

I've heard that for every 5 lbs you lose (with everything else being equal), your marathon time will be 4 minutes faster.  I can't remember where I read it, but I did see that somewhere a couple years ago.

26.2 miles x 5 lbs x 1-2 seconds per mile is

131 to 262 seconds which is

2-4.5 minutes 

So it's pretty close to the same rate. 

 

[tri-man 47]

26.2 miles x 5 lbs x 1-2 seconds per mile is

131 to 262 seconds which is

2-4.5 minutes 

So it's pretty close to the same rate. 

Our resident (if not actively posting) near-Olympian, SteveC, has commented on Strava about the benefit of improved speed due to weight loss within the range you mention.  So that's a strong affirmation of the concept.

 

[bostonfred]

Another fun thing i read - 90 minutes is about how long it takes for your body to burn off all its glycogen and easily stored energy and switch to burning mostly fat. Doing that once a week seems to train your system to get better at burning fat. 

So maybe I will start increasing my long run soon.  I feel like my legs are now used to the 7 miles (although I do end up walking sometimes especially if it's really hot, so I don't think i've fully mastered it). I pretty routinely finish in about 64 to 80 minutes - 64 is my record, 69 or 70 if I don't slow down and walk, and 80 if I do. 

If I move up to 9 miles I'll definitely go over 90 minutes, and 10+ would get me into that fat burning zone for longer. 

Weird thing - when I trained for a half marathon years ago I remember I would get ammonia sweats on long runs.  My sweat literally smelled like ammonia to me. I wonder if that's from the fat burning zone?  I also wonder if it's healthy. 

 

[bostonfred]

Our resident (if not actively posting) near-Olympian, SteveC, has commented on Strava about the benefit of improved speed due to weight loss within the range you mention.  So that's a strong affirmation of the concept.

My current weight is about 216. My goal weight is 184.6 (an even 100 down from my starting weight in June 2019) by the end of October, and then if there's any gut left i hope to take it off by Easter after pausing for the holidays.  Between weight loss and improving my speed that should mean I cut a minute plus off my time per mile. That sounds pretty crazy to me but I'd love to see it. 

 

[mr. furley]

is this Brooks (https://www.vipbrooks.online/) site for real?

 

 

[gruecd]

Heard an interesting stat that losing a pound of weight usually improves your time by about 1 to 2 seconds per mile.  Is that right?  Anyone with similar experience?  

That’s what they say, yes.

 

[gruecd]

Another fun thing i read - 90 minutes is about how long it takes for your body to burn off all its glycogen and easily stored energy and switch to burning mostly fat. Doing that once a week seems to train your system to get better at burning fat. 

So maybe I will start increasing my long run soon.  I feel like my legs are now used to the 7 miles (although I do end up walking sometimes especially if it's really hot, so I don't think i've fully mastered it). I pretty routinely finish in about 64 to 80 minutes - 64 is my record, 69 or 70 if I don't slow down and walk, and 80 if I do. 

If I move up to 9 miles I'll definitely go over 90 minutes, and 10+ would get me into that fat burning zone for longer. 

Weird thing - when I trained for a half marathon years ago I remember I would get ammonia sweats on long runs.  My sweat literally smelled like ammonia to me. I wonder if that's from the fat burning zone?  I also wonder if it's healthy. 

80 minutes is the generally accepted threshold. And yes, the ammonia smell is from fat burning.

 

[bostonfred]

80 minutes is the generally accepted threshold. And yes, the ammonia smell is from fat burning.

Time to up my mileage then.  Seems dumb for me to run 70 minutes when I'm so close to the magic number.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

To my knowledge, I’ve never sweated out ammonia.

 

[-OZ-]

Probably since I can confirm the inverse.

Preach!

 

[El Floppo]

26.2 miles x 5 lbs x 1-2 seconds per mile is

131 to 262 seconds which is

2-4.5 minutes 

So it's pretty close to the same rate. 

Our resident (if not actively posting) near-Olympian, SteveC, has commented on Strava about the benefit of improved speed due to weight loss within the range you mention.  So that's a strong affirmation of the concept.

My tri coaches also recommended lightening the load for races...including wearing race-flats. They had similar data on seconds per mile saved based on weight. Why I harped on gian not using that gunga-din hydration pack on his marathon.

 

[MAC_32]

Time to up my mileage then.  Seems dumb for me to run 70 minutes when I'm so close to the magic number.  

All those 70 min runs will pay off, but now that it's becoming normal a mix between 50-60 and 80-90 with nothing in between would likely be better for you.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

My tri coaches also recommended lightening the load for races...including wearing race-flats. They had similar data on seconds per mile saved based on weight. Why I harped on gian not using that gunga-din hydration pack on his marathon.

If I remember correctly, weight of the shoe is supposed to be worth like ~1 sec per mile per ounce as well.  Which makes some sense as the weight is in a bad spot from a mechanical advantage standpoint.  From what I recall reading, some British dude ran a bunch of laps on the track while adding washers as weight to the shoes to try to figure this out.  Of course, the shoe has to provide enough support to not injure you or it doesn't do you any good.  Also, not sure if this would apply to funkily engineered shoes like the Vaporflys.

 

[bostonfred]

All those 70 min runs will pay off, but now that it's becoming normal a mix between 50-60 and 80-90 with nothing in between would likely be better for you.

It's supposed to be cooler tomorrow so maybe I'll do a shorter run today and then go slow tomorrow on my longer route and if I feel like I can keep going without walking then I'll try a turn that adds about a mile to the run. If I don't feel up to it, I'm not in a rush. 

I can always just save up my long runs for the treadmill and use it to watch a 90 minute movie. It's easier for me to stick to MAF pace (and not end up walking) when all i have to do is set a speed on the treadmill and watch tv so maybe that’s better anyways until I build up a base of 90 minute runs.  

 

[bostonfred]

To my knowledge, I’ve never sweated out ammonia.

You don't have as much fat to burn, and you take gu or whatever so your body doesn't need to burn fat.  

I am running specifically to burn fat so I need to remember not to take gu or drink gatorade or stop for a meatball sandwich midway through my long run so I don't screw up the fat burning benefits.  But sweating ammonia is nasty.  It gets in my nose so every breath is gross and it gets worse in the shower with the steam.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

You don't have as much fat to burn, and you take gu or whatever so your body doesn't need to burn fat.  

I'm generally burning a combination of fat and glycogen when I run.  The way I understand it is the higher the intensity, the more glycogen.  Even skinny marathon runners store plenty of fat for running.  By the way, I don't take in carbs unless I'm racing a marathon.  I run virtually all my runs fasted.

 

[bostonfred]

I'm generally burning a combination of fat and glycogen when I run.  The way I understand it is the higher the intensity, the more glycogen.  Even skinny marathon runners store plenty of fat for running.  By the way, I don't take in carbs unless I'm racing a marathon.  I run virtually all my runs fasted.

I know you're fasted. I sprinted downhill yesterday and got my watch to say I was almost as fast as your average mile pace.

But how ####### dare you challenge me on fat storage.  Even if you really are good at it, just leave me with one ####### thing ok?

 

[tri-man 47]

If I remember correctly, weight of the shoe is supposed to be worth like ~1 sec per mile per ounce as well.  Which makes some sense as the weight is in a bad spot from a mechanical advantage standpoint.  From what I recall reading, some British dude ran a bunch of laps on the track while adding washers as weight to the shoes to try to figure this out.  Of course, the shoe has to provide enough support to not injure you or it doesn't do you any good.  Also, not sure if this would apply to funkily engineered shoes like the Vaporflys.

I've always felt that this was true.  A mile is 1,760 yards, so call it 2,000 strides per mile or 52,000 strides for a marathon.  If the shoe is just one ounce lighter (1/16 of a pound), that saves over 3,000 lbs of lifting over the course of a marathon (1/16 x 52K).  If my math is right, that's a ton (or two) of weight avoided.

 

[Zasada]

I'm generally burning a combination of fat and glycogen when I run.  The way I understand it is the higher the intensity, the more glycogen.  Even skinny marathon runners store plenty of fat for running.  By the way, I don't take in carbs unless I'm racing a marathon.  I run virtually all my runs fasted.

Yeah I run fasted as well.  Never smelled ammonia when running, or after. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

I know you're fasted. I sprinted downhill yesterday and got my watch to say I was almost as fast as your average mile pace.

But how ####### dare you challenge me on fat storage.  Even if you really are good at it, just leave me with one ####### thing ok?

I will give you credit for being better at fat storage. And who knows? Maybe in some post-apocalyptic world that skill will be useful to get you through the winter while I’m out there trying to get carbs from tree bark.

 

[The Iguana]

Ok... last week was supposed to be the kickoff week of getting serious yet again... but after running monday morning on vacation I put a couple nasty blisters on my feet walking to/from the beach and around town in shoes... spent the rest of the week on vacation walking about 6 to 10 miles a day or so but ended up not running again. So... last night ended up being yet more more "kickoff" to get serious for the Monumental. One of these times it has to stick! 

Also just signed up for a serious of 5k's that are around town on Thursday nights - first one is this week. It's a neat run group I have been aware of and seen around at times. Figured I'd support them and maybe find some people to run with and help with my motivation. 

Last - the run last night was the first time I've run the canal downtown in about 18 months. It was good to be back down there and see life look more like normal again. That route goes right by the JW Marriott and actually down the road that the Monumental finishes on so hopefully was good motivation to really get serious this time...

 

[El Floppo]

I'm generally burning a combination of fat and glycogen when I run.  The way I understand it is the higher the intensity, the more glycogen.  Even skinny marathon runners store plenty of fat for running.  By the way, I don't take in carbs unless I'm racing a marathon.  I run virtually all my runs fasted.

Yeah I run fasted as well.  Never smelled ammonia when running, or after. 

Same and same.

I have smelled vodka a few times.

 

[El Floppo]

I've always felt that this was true.  A mile is 1,760 yards, so call it 2,000 strides per mile or 52,000 strides for a marathon.  If the shoe is just one ounce lighter (1/16 of a pound), that saves over 3,000 lbs of lifting over the course of a marathon (1/16 x 52K).  If my math is right, that's a ton (or two) of weight avoided.

I was told no math.

But yeah...that was my coaches' reasoning as well.

 

[bostonfred]

80 minutes is the generally accepted threshold. And yes, the ammonia smell is from fat burning.

To my knowledge, I’ve never sweated out ammonia.

Yeah I run fasted as well.  Never smelled ammonia when running, or after. 

https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a20788991/burning-protein-as-fuel/

According to this I'm burning protein (mostly dietary protein) because I'm out of carbs.  So maybe that's not a good goal. Most of the stuff I've seen on the topic says its harmless but in my case it might not have been.

When I was at my heaviest, I did get a couple gout flare-ups, and that's probably related - too much protein, not good at breaking it down fast enough, so I've got more urea (high protein/ammonia/pre-pee) in my blood, which builds up near the joints and crystallizes, causing the pain and inflammation from gout. 

Even before then, I was fat, probably well on my way to pre-diabetic and/or fatty liver, and my body was probably getting worse at processing the food I was eating while I was eating too much food.  But I was also exercising, so even the one time I did train for a half, and the handful of other times I got the ammonia smell, it was probably more from the already high urea content in my blood than the lack of carbs.

So the fact that I don't smell ammonia every time I run now is probably a good sign that I have improved my metabolism and ability to process carbs and proteins.  And that I have less sugar and processed foods in my system.  

The more i think about this stuff, the more I realize that the weight I've lost probably saved my life, or at least greatly improved it.  

 

[Juxtatarot]

I never heard of this protein burning thing. Sounds awful.

 

[MAC_32]

Same and same.

I have smelled vodka a few times.

I burped up vodka and red bull while wandering up-and-down hills on the trails Father's Day. After I told my B-I-L that no matter what we are celebrating (it was his 40th) that if he ever gives me another one of those again then he's taking 2.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

I burped up vodka and red bull while wandering up-and-down hills on the trails Father's Day. After I told my B-I-L that no matter what we are celebrating (it was his 40th) that if he ever gives me another one of those again then he's taking 2.

I used to play cards with a guy who loved vodka and red bull.  Never got the appeal myself.  My drinking is pretty boring - if I'm drinking vodka I'll either drink it neat or as a vodka and tonic.

 

[gianmarco]

My drinking is pretty boring

Me too!

 

[SFBayDuck]

Happy Father’s Day to all you dads out there.  Hope you and your families are safe and well.  

Happy Statesmas to you!  When do you hit Olympic Valley?

 

[SFBayDuck]

Heard an interesting stat that losing a pound of weight usually improves your time by about 1 to 2 seconds per mile.  Is that right?  Anyone with similar experience?  

Probably since I can confirm the inverse.

Me too.  I'm now so fat I move backwards when I try to run.  

 

[El Floppo]

Your HR is so low I’m not sure you need to run slower — especially if you feel fresh.

I haven't felt fresh in over a decade

 

[SteelCurtain]

2022 Boston marathon registration period is November 8-12, so 2021 Monumental will make you eligible to run Boston just 6 months later.  

 

[SFBayDuck]

I'm generally burning a combination of fat and glycogen when I run.  The way I understand it is the higher the intensity, the more glycogen.  Even skinny marathon runners store plenty of fat for running.  By the way, I don't take in carbs unless I'm racing a marathon.  I run virtually all my runs fasted.

Everyone burns a combo of fat and glycogen when they run, from a walk up to a sprint.  It's just a matter of the mix, with the ratio moving towards higher glycogen utilization as the effort increases.  And yes, you can train your body to burn more fat at higher effort levels through a combo of diet (lower carb, higher fat) and training (fasted runs, long easy runs, etc).

https://www.runnersworld.com/health-injuries/a20788991/burning-protein-as-fuel/

According to this I'm burning protein (mostly dietary protein) because I'm out of carbs. 

I always understood the ammonia smell to be protein (ie muscle) breakdown.  Pretty common in the later stages of an ultra, obviously.  It's super inefficient to rely on it as a fuel via gluconeogenesis, much less efficient than burning fat, so I'd question how much that is happening in any sort of normal run.  

 

[El Floppo]

After a couple off weeks (only ran twice last week- life/work/stress related, after taking my Fred-recovery week the week before) I'm trying to get back on the wagon.

Ran recovery  yesterday (usually a an off day) and the legs felt sore and tight from the mid-lomg run on sunday. HR avged really high for me, which was strange.. Today was supposed to he hill/bridge repeats and I came this close to bailing before I even got to the hill with the legs feeling off and my HR weirdly high...but i decided to at least do the first one and then just hold the pace back to do all 5. Our spot in MD for the next month has next to no hills worth repeating.

Ended up avging faster than I ever have, with my second fastest time in the middle. The benefits of some time off, I guess.

 

[gruecd]

2022 Boston marathon registration period is November 8-12, so 2021 Monumental will make you eligible to run Boston just 6 months later.  

It’ll actually allow you to qualify for BOTH 2022 and 2023.

 

[tri-man 47]

Me too!

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