Randy Moss Retires (1 Viewer)

[CalBear]

What did Culpepper accomplish when he didn't have Moss to throw to?

In 2004, with Moss missing 5 games and ineffective in most of the others (had a total of 767 receiving yards), Culpepper threw for 4717 yards and 39 TDs, one of the best QB seasons in NFL history.

Do you think it's coincidence that Culpepper only threw for 235.8 yards 1.8 TDs per game while Moss was out compared to 321.6 yards 2.7 TDs with him? I think it was because Moss was double teamed which opened everyone else up. It's worth mentioning that with those 767 yards in 11 games Moss also had 13 TDs!

I am sure that having a great receiver helps the QB, if that's what you're asking.

 

[Jason Wood]

Since the Eagles havent been shy about hand outs in the past week, Andy Reid please call up Moss and make an offer.

It happened today apparently. Although it wasn't Andy making the offer, it was Howie Roseman.

 

[Tau837]

I guess I'm the only one discounting Rice for being in Walsh's grounbreaking offense.

There was nothing "new" about that offense. Walsh was running it for the Bengals in the late 60's under Paul Brown. It wasn't actually given a name ("West Coast Offense") until Walsh started having success with it in San Francisco.

Okay, but it only started thriving in San Francisco once Walsh had perfected it. Probably a better situation playing for Walsh than Denny Green, and most would also take Montana over Daunte Culpepper.

As an FYI, Joe Montana averaged 210 passing yards per game in San Francisco. Daunte Culpepper averaged 249 yards per game in Minnesota. Montana averaged 1.46 TD per game, Culpepper 1.67.Which situation was better for producing stats?

What did Culpepper accomplish when he didn't have Moss to throw to? What did Montana accomplish when he didn't have Rice to throw to. There is little doubt that SF with Walsh and Montana was the better situation IMO. This debate has been hashed out and beaten to death in other threads so there is no point doing it here.

I don't understand your point. Are you saying it's easier to put up good numbers as a WR when your QB throws for 210 yards and 1.5 TDs per game than when your QB throws for 249 yards and 1.7 TDs? Because that would seem to defy any logic.Or is the argument that Moss was soooo good he turned Daunte Culpepper into a more productive QB than Jerry Rice could turn Joe Montana into? Moss and Culpepper played together from '00 to '04. Rice and Montana played together from '85 to '90. From 2000 to 2005, Culpepper averaged 255 passing yards and 1.8 passing TDs per game. From 1985 to 1990, Montana averaged 239 passing yards and 1.7 passing TDs per game. Tell me again how Rice's situation was better for racking up yards and touchdowns please. That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Raider Nation]

Can someone explain the protocol when a player wants to return to action after filing his retirement papers?

 

[zoonation]

If someone gives Moss a chance (i.e. a contract he would consider playing for), which I highly doubt, expect to see more of the same from last year. His biggest weapon is gone, and he is not a multi-dimensional receiver.

It is over folks. Marvin Harrison style.

 

[sn0mm1s]

I don't understand your point. Are you saying it's easier to put up good numbers as a WR when your QB throws for 210 yards and 1.5 TDs per game than when your QB throws for 249 yards and 1.7 TDs? Because that would seem to defy any logic.Or is the argument that Moss was soooo good he turned Daunte Culpepper into a more productive QB than Jerry Rice could turn Joe Montana into? Moss and Culpepper played together from '00 to '04. Rice and Montana played together from '85 to '90. From 2000 to 2005, Culpepper averaged 255 passing yards and 1.8 passing TDs per game. From 1985 to 1990, Montana averaged 239 passing yards and 1.7 passing TDs per game. Tell me again how Rice's situation was better for racking up yards and touchdowns please. That just doesn't make any sense.

I think it is fair to say that a in his prime, motivated Randy Moss was a more dangerous weapon than Rice. Those years that you mentioned Rice and Moss had nearly identical per game stats. You give Moss Manning or Brady for the majority of his career and I would think his stats definitely improve. Not to mention Randy Moss was the primary weapon on two entirely different teams that broke NFL scoring records. That said, Rice was the better receiver. He wasn't quite as dangerous as a motivated Moss - he wasn't as physically gifted - but Rice was never not motivated, was always consistent, and continued to produce at all pro, NFL record breaking level apparently at an age where Moss has already hung up his cleats.

 

[Raider Nation]

I don't understand your point. Are you saying it's easier to put up good numbers as a WR when your QB throws for 210 yards and 1.5 TDs per game than when your QB throws for 249 yards and 1.7 TDs? Because that would seem to defy any logic.

Or is the argument that Moss was soooo good he turned Daunte Culpepper into a more productive QB than Jerry Rice could turn Joe Montana into?

Moss and Culpepper played together from '00 to '04. Rice and Montana played together from '85 to '90. From 2000 to 2005, Culpepper averaged 255 passing yards and 1.8 passing TDs per game. From 1985 to 1990, Montana averaged 239 passing yards and 1.7 passing TDs per game. Tell me again how Rice's situation was better for racking up yards and touchdowns please. That just doesn't make any sense.

I think it is fair to say that a in his prime, motivated Randy Moss was a more dangerous weapon than Rice. Those years that you mentioned Rice and Moss had nearly identical per game stats. You give Moss Manning or Brady for the majority of his career and I would think his stats definitely improve. Not to mention Randy Moss was the primary weapon on two entirely different teams that broke NFL scoring records. That said, Rice was the better receiver. He wasn't quite as dangerous as a motivated Moss - he wasn't as physically gifted - but Rice was never not motivated, was always consistent, and continued to produce at all pro, NFL record breaking level apparently at an age where Moss has already hung up his cleats.

I think we can all agree on this:Moss was the best deep threat ever.

Rice was the best overall WR ever.

Let's leave it at that.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I don't understand your point. Are you saying it's easier to put up good numbers as a WR when your QB throws for 210 yards and 1.5 TDs per game than when your QB throws for 249 yards and 1.7 TDs? Because that would seem to defy any logic.Or is the argument that Moss was soooo good he turned Daunte Culpepper into a more productive QB than Jerry Rice could turn Joe Montana into? Moss and Culpepper played together from '00 to '04. Rice and Montana played together from '85 to '90. From 2000 to 2005, Culpepper averaged 255 passing yards and 1.8 passing TDs per game. From 1985 to 1990, Montana averaged 239 passing yards and 1.7 passing TDs per game. Tell me again how Rice's situation was better for racking up yards and touchdowns please. That just doesn't make any sense.

I think it is fair to say that a in his prime, motivated Randy Moss was a more dangerous weapon than Rice. Those years that you mentioned Rice and Moss had nearly identical per game stats. You give Moss Manning or Brady for the majority of his career and I would think his stats definitely improve. Not to mention Randy Moss was the primary weapon on two entirely different teams that broke NFL scoring records. That said, Rice was the better receiver. He wasn't quite as dangerous as a motivated Moss - he wasn't as physically gifted - but Rice was never not motivated, was always consistent, and continued to produce at all pro, NFL record breaking level apparently at an age where Moss has already hung up his cleats.

If you give Rice Manning or (an '07 version of) Brady, and his stats definitely improve, too.

 

[sn0mm1s]

If you give Rice Manning or (an '07 version of) Brady, and his stats definitely improve, too.

You really think his stats would improve that much more over Montana and Young? Even if you think Manning and Brady are better than Montana and Young I think the difference is negligible compared to Culpepper vs. Montana.Moss + Culpepper on a per game basis put up very similar stats as Rice + Montana at the same point in Moss and Rice's careers. Do you think Rice's stats improve when replacing Montana with Culpepper? I don't.

 

[jurb26]

If you give Rice Manning or (an '07 version of) Brady, and his stats definitely improve, too.

You really think his stats would improve that much more over Montana and Young? Even if you think Manning and Brady are better than Montana and Young I think the difference is negligible compared to Culpepper vs. Montana.Moss + Culpepper on a per game basis put up very similar stats as Rice + Montana at the same point in Moss and Rice's careers. Do you think Rice's stats improve when replacing Montana with Culpepper? I don't.

There is already a 40 page thread somewhere about this very topic and I think it shows pretty clearly that Culpepper was almost completely made by Moss and that he never would have been remotely close to the stats he put up with him otherwise. I'm sure it could be found if anyone really wanted to but I see the same people posting in this one that posted in that one so in reality nobody's going to change their mind anyway so why bother.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

From something Drinen wrote a few years ago:

Clearly, Rice benefitted from playing with Montana and Young. No one disputes that. The question is: by how much? That's an impossible question to answer, but what we can do is look at the seasons during which Rice was working with a non-Montana/Young QB for a substantial amount of time:

[*]In 1986, Rice's second year, Montana only played 8 games. The other 8 featured Jeff Kemp and Mike Moroski at the QB position for the 49ers. Kemp and Moroski threw 47 percent of the team's passes that year. Rice had 1570 yards and 15 TDs on the season, leading the league in both categories.

[*]In 1991, Steve Young spent some time on the shelf. Steve Bono and Bill Musgrave threw 242 passes that year, 46 percent of the team's total. Rice's numbers were 1206 and 14.

[*]In 1995, Young was injured again, and Elvis Grbac threw 30 percent of the 49ers passes. Rice had 1848 receiving yards and 15 TDs.

[*]In 1996, Grbac and Jeff Brohm threw 42 percent of the 49ers passes. Rice went for 1254 and 8.

So during those four seasons, during which Kemp, Moroski, Bono, Grbac, and Brohm were QBing the 49ers 41 percent of the time, Rice averaged 1470 and 13. And really only one of those seasons was during what would tyically be considered a wide receiver's prime years.

Further, while I don't have game-by-game breakdowns for 1986 or 1991, I do have them for 1995 and 1996. During the 9 games where Young did not play during 95 and 96 (plus a game where he threw only one pass), Rice had 908 yards and 9 TDs. That comes out to 1453/14 over a 16-game season. So Jerry Rice, at age 33 and 34, with Elvis Grbac and Jeff Brohm at QB and Derrick Loville and Terry Kirby at RB, was putting up numbers that could arguably pass for the best season of Cris Carter's or Steve Largent's career.

 

[Chase Stuart]

If you give Rice Manning or (an '07 version of) Brady, and his stats definitely improve, too.

You really think his stats would improve that much more over Montana and Young? Even if you think Manning and Brady are better than Montana and Young I think the difference is negligible compared to Culpepper vs. Montana.Moss + Culpepper on a per game basis put up very similar stats as Rice + Montana at the same point in Moss and Rice's careers. Do you think Rice's stats improve when replacing Montana with Culpepper? I don't.

Whether or not Manning and Brady are better than Montana and Young has little to do with what stats the wide receiver will put up.Good QBs are efficient, throw few interceptions, and average a bunch of yards per pass attempts. Good WRs get yards and touchdowns. QB A: 20/25, 200 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTsQB B: 30/45, 300 yards, 2 TD, 3 INTsQB A reads like a Joe Montana line. QB B reads like a Duante Culpepper line. Which quarterback is better equipped to help his WR accumulate massive stats?I have zero doubt that if you put Rice on the Vikings from '00 to '04 that he would put up similar or better numbers to Rice, and Culpepper would put up similar or better numbers.

 

[Chase Stuart]

From something Drinen wrote a few years ago:

Clearly, Rice benefitted from playing with Montana and Young. No one disputes that. The question is: by how much? That's an impossible question to answer, but what we can do is look at the seasons during which Rice was working with a non-Montana/Young QB for a substantial amount of time:

[*]In 1986, Rice's second year, Montana only played 8 games. The other 8 featured Jeff Kemp and Mike Moroski at the QB position for the 49ers. Kemp and Moroski threw 47 percent of the team's passes that year. Rice had 1570 yards and 15 TDs on the season, leading the league in both categories.

[*]In 1991, Steve Young spent some time on the shelf. Steve Bono and Bill Musgrave threw 242 passes that year, 46 percent of the team's total. Rice's numbers were 1206 and 14.

[*]In 1995, Young was injured again, and Elvis Grbac threw 30 percent of the 49ers passes. Rice had 1848 receiving yards and 15 TDs.

[*]In 1996, Grbac and Jeff Brohm threw 42 percent of the 49ers passes. Rice went for 1254 and 8.

So during those four seasons, during which Kemp, Moroski, Bono, Grbac, and Brohm were QBing the 49ers 41 percent of the time, Rice averaged 1470 and 13. And really only one of those seasons was during what would tyically be considered a wide receiver's prime years.

Further, while I don't have game-by-game breakdowns for 1986 or 1991, I do have them for 1995 and 1996. During the 9 games where Young did not play during 95 and 96 (plus a game where he threw only one pass), Rice had 908 yards and 9 TDs. That comes out to 1453/14 over a 16-game season. So Jerry Rice, at age 33 and 34, with Elvis Grbac and Jeff Brohm at QB and Derrick Loville and Terry Kirby at RB, was putting up numbers that could arguably pass for the best season of Cris Carter's or Steve Largent's career.

Yes. And with the addition of some data into PFR, I updated this post last year: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=5473

In Rice's rookie year, Montana missed one game. Matt Cavanaugh started against the Eagles, who had one of the best pass defenses in the league. Rice caught 3 passes for 71 yards and a score.

In 1986, Rice's second season, Montana suffered a severe back injury in week one that nearly ended his career. Jeff Kemp (6) and Mike Moroski (2) started half of the season before Montana came back. In those eight games, Rice caught 40 passes for 820 yards and 9 TDs. Over sixteen games, 80 receptions, 1640 yards and 18 TDs would have been the most impressive season by any receiver in the league. Excluding Rice (who had 86-1570-15), Stanley Morgan had the second most receiving yards (1491) and Wesley Walker was second in receiving touchdowns (12). And yes, to those observant readers, Rice's numbers that season were better without a gimpy Montana than with one.

Montana and Young would start every non-strike game over the next four seasons, so let's skip ahead to 1991. Montana had a season-ending elbow injury in the pre-season and Young injured his knee in mid-season. Steve Bono started six games for the 49ers, and Rice caught 33 passes for 415 yards and four scores playing with Bono. After losing their first start under Bono, the 49ers would win their next five games. Pro-rated over 16 games, Rice (88 receptions, 1107 yards, 10.7 TDs) would have ranked 4th, 8th and 5th in receptions, receiving yards and receiving TDs with Bono.

In 1995, Young went down again, and this time Elvis Grbac took over. In five starts, Rice put up an absurd 31-550-4, for a pro-rated 99-1760-12.8 (actual 122-1848-15). Those 1760 receiving yards would be good enough for #2 all-time on the single-season list.

Young missed four more starts in 1996, with Grbac again picking up the slack. Rice scored in every game, and caught 27 passes for 322 yards and 5 scores. The pro-rated Rice would have led the league with his 108 catches and ranked 4th with his 1288 yards; his 20 TDs would outpace the #2 man by six scores. The actual Rice had 108-1254-8.

So for 5 seasons, Grbac (9), Kemp (6), Bono (6), Moroski (2) and Cavanugh (1) starting 24 games for the 49ers. In exactly a year and a half's worth of games, Rice caught 134 passes for 2,177 yards and 23 TDs, and ran for one score as well. That's an average season of 89 catches, 1451 receiving yards and 16 touchdowns, or roughly the career best season for nearly every WR who has ever played the game. And, of course, only 25% of those games came during what we would typically call a wide receiver's prime. Eighteen of those 24 games that he played without Montana or Young came during Rice's first or second season, or when he was 33- or 34-years old. In '95 and '96, playing at an age when most receivers start slowing down, catching passes from Elvis Grbac, and playing with Derek Loville and Terry Kirby at RB, Rice put up numbers that could arguably pass for the best season of Cris Carter's or Steve Largent's career.

As a point of reference, Moss was 33 last year and 34 this year. So playing at ages when Moss was either washed up or retired, Rice played in 9 games with Elvis Grbac as the quarterback. His numbers in those 9 games, pro-rated to a 16-game season: 103 catches, 1,550 yards and 16 touchdowns.

 

[sn0mm1s]

If you give Rice Manning or (an '07 version of) Brady, and his stats definitely improve, too.

You really think his stats would improve that much more over Montana and Young? Even if you think Manning and Brady are better than Montana and Young I think the difference is negligible compared to Culpepper vs. Montana.Moss + Culpepper on a per game basis put up very similar stats as Rice + Montana at the same point in Moss and Rice's careers. Do you think Rice's stats improve when replacing Montana with Culpepper? I don't.

Whether or not Manning and Brady are better than Montana and Young has little to do with what stats the wide receiver will put up.Good QBs are efficient, throw few interceptions, and average a bunch of yards per pass attempts. Good WRs get yards and touchdowns. QB A: 20/25, 200 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTsQB B: 30/45, 300 yards, 2 TD, 3 INTsQB A reads like a Joe Montana line. QB B reads like a Duante Culpepper line. Which quarterback is better equipped to help his WR accumulate massive stats?I have zero doubt that if you put Rice on the Vikings from '00 to '04 that he would put up similar or better numbers to Rice, and Culpepper would put up similar or better numbers.

I don't know where you are getting those numbers but comparing Culpepper from 2000-2004 vs. Montana 1985-1990 is *nothing* close to what you posted.

 

[NeverEnough]

What did he say to the Eagles?

 

[Chase Stuart]

If you give Rice Manning or (an '07 version of) Brady, and his stats definitely improve, too.

You really think his stats would improve that much more over Montana and Young? Even if you think Manning and Brady are better than Montana and Young I think the difference is negligible compared to Culpepper vs. Montana.Moss + Culpepper on a per game basis put up very similar stats as Rice + Montana at the same point in Moss and Rice's careers. Do you think Rice's stats improve when replacing Montana with Culpepper? I don't.

Whether or not Manning and Brady are better than Montana and Young has little to do with what stats the wide receiver will put up.Good QBs are efficient, throw few interceptions, and average a bunch of yards per pass attempts. Good WRs get yards and touchdowns. QB A: 20/25, 200 yards, 1 TD, 0 INTsQB B: 30/45, 300 yards, 2 TD, 3 INTsQB A reads like a Joe Montana line. QB B reads like a Duante Culpepper line. Which quarterback is better equipped to help his WR accumulate massive stats?I have zero doubt that if you put Rice on the Vikings from '00 to '04 that he would put up similar or better numbers to Rice, and Culpepper would put up similar or better numbers.

I don't know where you are getting those numbers but comparing Culpepper from 2000-2004 vs. Montana 1985-1990 is *nothing* close to what you posted.

The point is that it doesn't matter who played with the "better QB." It matters who played with the "better QB at helping your WR put up good stats." And when it comes to the latter, I'm not sure Daunte Culpepper playing in a dome with a bad defense and a heavy-pass offense isn't better than Joe Montana playing with a good running game and great defense. I already posted the exact numbers (the example above was for illustration) for Culpepper and Montana during the relevant periods, and Culpepper's numbers -- for WR production -- were larger. I don't see why this is even controversial. QB A above would be a much better QB than QB B, but QB B would be much better at helping his WR's stats. When discussing Moss and Rice, we shouldn't say that Rice had much better QBs (he did) because that's not relevant. What's relevant is whether his quarterbacks/system were better at helping Rice's production vis-a-vis Moss, and no one has yet shown that they were.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

What did he say to the Eagles?

No kidding, I bumped this thread so we didn't fire up a bunch of Moss rumor threads but it is mostly Moss vs Rice which I find laughable as they were completely different WRs.

 

[sn0mm1s]

The point is that it doesn't matter who played with the "better QB." It matters who played with the "better QB at helping your WR put up good stats." And when it comes to the latter, I'm not sure Daunte Culpepper playing in a dome with a bad defense and a heavy-pass offense isn't better than Joe Montana playing with a good running game and great defense. I already posted the exact numbers (the example above was for illustration) for Culpepper and Montana during the relevant periods, and Culpepper's numbers -- for WR production -- were larger. I don't see why this is even controversial. QB A above would be a much better QB than QB B, but QB B would be much better at helping his WR's stats. When discussing Moss and Rice, we shouldn't say that Rice had much better QBs (he did) because that's not relevant. What's relevant is whether his quarterbacks/system were better at helping Rice's production vis-a-vis Moss, and no one has yet shown that they were.

Culpepper per game during those years:21 completions, 33 attempts, 255 yards 1.8 TDs, 1.0 INTsMontana20 completions, 32 attempts, 248 yards,1.7 TDs, .9 INTs.When you break it down on a per start basis Montana's numbers go to:21 completions, 33 attempts, 258 yards,1.8 TDs, .9 INTs.I fail to see how your QB A, QB B example has any validity to what we are discussing regarding Moss and Rice. If anything, Rice played in a more pass heavy offense relative to Moss taking era into account. He also played with markedly better QBs. It is impossible to completely separate WR production vs. QB production. However, commonsense would seem to indicate that Moss made Culpepper. Montana's stats didn't improve all that much with Rice added to the team. Culpepper fell off the map once Moss left the Vikes.

 

[bostonfred]

I have zero doubt that if you put Rice on the Vikings from '00 to '04 that he would put up similar or better numbers to Rice

I'll give you similar, but better? No way. Identical, at best.

 

[cr8f]

I have zero doubt that if you put Rice on the Vikings from '00 to '04 that he would put up similar or better numbers to Rice

I'll give you similar, but better? No way. Identical, at best.

Moss never telegraphed the pass was coming. He didn't move his hands until is was about 2 feet away. Moss was a pain often but I've never seen a WR harder to defend.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

I have zero doubt that if you put Rice on the Vikings from '00 to '04 that he would put up similar or better numbers to Rice

I'll give you similar, but better? No way. Identical, at best.

Moss never telegraphed the pass was coming. He didn't move his hands until is was about 2 feet away. Moss was a pain often but I've never seen a WR harder to defend.

:whoosh:

 

[NeverEnough]

What did he say to the Eagles?

No kidding, I bumped this thread so we didn't fire up a bunch of Moss rumor threads but it is mostly Moss vs Rice which I find laughable as they were completely different WRs.

Guys, start your own thread for the stupid Moss vs Rice debate. The way you guys argue, you'd think one of them was a family member or your gay lover.

 

[BassNBrew]

From something Drinen wrote a few years ago:

Clearly, Rice benefitted from playing with Montana and Young. No one disputes that. The question is: by how much? That's an impossible question to answer, but what we can do is look at the seasons during which Rice was working with a non-Montana/Young QB for a substantial amount of time:

[*]In 1986, Rice's second year, Montana only played 8 games. The other 8 featured Jeff Kemp and Mike Moroski at the QB position for the 49ers. Kemp and Moroski threw 47 percent of the team's passes that year. Rice had 1570 yards and 15 TDs on the season, leading the league in both categories.

[*]In 1991, Steve Young spent some time on the shelf. Steve Bono and Bill Musgrave threw 242 passes that year, 46 percent of the team's total. Rice's numbers were 1206 and 14.

[*]In 1995, Young was injured again, and Elvis Grbac threw 30 percent of the 49ers passes. Rice had 1848 receiving yards and 15 TDs.

[*]In 1996, Grbac and Jeff Brohm threw 42 percent of the 49ers passes. Rice went for 1254 and 8.

So during those four seasons, during which Kemp, Moroski, Bono, Grbac, and Brohm were QBing the 49ers 41 percent of the time, Rice averaged 1470 and 13. And really only one of those seasons was during what would tyically be considered a wide receiver's prime years.

Further, while I don't have game-by-game breakdowns for 1986 or 1991, I do have them for 1995 and 1996. During the 9 games where Young did not play during 95 and 96 (plus a game where he threw only one pass), Rice had 908 yards and 9 TDs. That comes out to 1453/14 over a 16-game season. So Jerry Rice, at age 33 and 34, with Elvis Grbac and Jeff Brohm at QB and Derrick Loville and Terry Kirby at RB, was putting up numbers that could arguably pass for the best season of Cris Carter's or Steve Largent's career.

Yes. And with the addition of some data into PFR, I updated this post last year: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=5473

In Rice's rookie year, Montana missed one game. Matt Cavanaugh started against the Eagles, who had one of the best pass defenses in the league. Rice caught 3 passes for 71 yards and a score.

In 1986, Rice's second season, Montana suffered a severe back injury in week one that nearly ended his career. Jeff Kemp (6) and Mike Moroski (2) started half of the season before Montana came back. In those eight games, Rice caught 40 passes for 820 yards and 9 TDs. Over sixteen games, 80 receptions, 1640 yards and 18 TDs would have been the most impressive season by any receiver in the league. Excluding Rice (who had 86-1570-15), Stanley Morgan had the second most receiving yards (1491) and Wesley Walker was second in receiving touchdowns (12). And yes, to those observant readers, Rice's numbers that season were better without a gimpy Montana than with one.

Montana and Young would start every non-strike game over the next four seasons, so let's skip ahead to 1991. Montana had a season-ending elbow injury in the pre-season and Young injured his knee in mid-season. Steve Bono started six games for the 49ers, and Rice caught 33 passes for 415 yards and four scores playing with Bono. After losing their first start under Bono, the 49ers would win their next five games. Pro-rated over 16 games, Rice (88 receptions, 1107 yards, 10.7 TDs) would have ranked 4th, 8th and 5th in receptions, receiving yards and receiving TDs with Bono.

In 1995, Young went down again, and this time Elvis Grbac took over. In five starts, Rice put up an absurd 31-550-4, for a pro-rated 99-1760-12.8 (actual 122-1848-15). Those 1760 receiving yards would be good enough for #2 all-time on the single-season list.

Young missed four more starts in 1996, with Grbac again picking up the slack. Rice scored in every game, and caught 27 passes for 322 yards and 5 scores. The pro-rated Rice would have led the league with his 108 catches and ranked 4th with his 1288 yards; his 20 TDs would outpace the #2 man by six scores. The actual Rice had 108-1254-8.

So for 5 seasons, Grbac (9), Kemp (6), Bono (6), Moroski (2) and Cavanugh (1) starting 24 games for the 49ers. In exactly a year and a half's worth of games, Rice caught 134 passes for 2,177 yards and 23 TDs, and ran for one score as well. That's an average season of 89 catches, 1451 receiving yards and 16 touchdowns, or roughly the career best season for nearly every WR who has ever played the game. And, of course, only 25% of those games came during what we would typically call a wide receiver's prime. Eighteen of those 24 games that he played without Montana or Young came during Rice's first or second season, or when he was 33- or 34-years old. In '95 and '96, playing at an age when most receivers start slowing down, catching passes from Elvis Grbac, and playing with Derek Loville and Terry Kirby at RB, Rice put up numbers that could arguably pass for the best season of Cris Carter's or Steve Largent's career.

As a point of reference, Moss was 33 last year and 34 this year. So playing at ages when Moss was either washed up or retired, Rice played in 9 games with Elvis Grbac as the quarterback. His numbers in those 9 games, pro-rated to a 16-game season: 103 catches, 1,550 yards and 16 touchdowns.

You'd think slavery is still legal in the US given the way Chase is oVVning Hucky.

 

[countingcrow]

All I keep hearing is that the Ravens need a deep threat to open things up for Boldin.

I'm not all that familiar with Cotchery's strengths as a receiver, but he's latest name the Ravens are being linked to. I don't recall Cotchery ever being referred to as a burner. Torrey Smith would be an option if not for the lockout coupled with the fact that the Ravens are trying to WIN now as opposed to letting a rookie develop on the job.

Provided Randy Moss comes to his senses and stops asking for the moon when it comes to $$$, wouldn't it make sense for Ozzie Newsome to at least consider signing him if Moss had mutual interest. Flacco is an up-and-coming QB with a very strong arm. If Moss isn't "done" as some scouts have claimed he could be a major difference maker for this offense as a whole.

Strong-armed QB? Check

SB contender? Check

Need for a deep threat? Check

Ray Lewis present to keep Randy focused on what matters most? Check

I think this would be a good marriage.