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RB Alex Collins, SEA (2 Viewers)

Dr. Dan said:
I'm not relying on him as a starter. He's been on my bench, and I couldn't be happier about his outlook. If he had just 3 TDs he'd be a considered a weekly starter, and considering he has been eased in slowly to a brand new team he joined just before the season started, I'm not surprised he doens't have TDs. 

You mentioned 60 yards a game is his ceiling (even though it's not, he is averaging more), and I pointed out that Yards per game he is 13th in the entire league. I guess I'm curious if you think Rawls will average more than 60 yards per game? 

I mention yards per carry because he has seen carries steadily increase over the season. It doesnt' take a brain surgeon to figure out that high yards per carry + more carries = more yards = more fantasy points. 

Sure, many WRs on the WW could produce better points at flex right now, but:
1. We are talking about RBs and RB depth, not flex
2. you didn't drop Collins for a WR, you dropped him for Rawls.

If you think Rawls is going to produce better than 60 yards per game then by all means drop him. but you dropped a guy who is performing in the top 50% of starting NFL RBs, for a RB who has been hurt his entire career, and are trying to justify it by saying he only averages 60 yards a game and a WR can score more points than him? :confused:  When was Rawls listed as a WR and when has Rawls last rushed for over 60 yards? 
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Again, it's fantasy so I don't care about 60 yards per game.  What I think rawls has is the potential for catches and a td.  Collins has half the fantasy points of his back field mate.  Allen is getting most of the goalline work.  Woodhead is almost back.  West is almost back.  You have 4 weeks left for an improvement from collins to make him relevant for the playoffs.  

It's all speculation by you and and by me but my feeling is that team is a mess, there are too many mouths to feed and the coach can't be trusted.  So yes, i will take the potential of rawls right now.  I'll probably drop him too after this week and try something else next week

 
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killface said:
Again, it's fantasy so I don't care about 60 yards per game. 

It's all speculation by you and and by me but my feeling is that team is a mess, there are too many mouths to feed and the coach can't be trusted.  
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killface said:
quite frankly 60 yards per game is collins ceiling.  That's no way to live in fantasy
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:confused:

You brought it up....




EDIT: Not worth debating. You've contradicted yourself about 2-3 times in here and it's clear you're trying your hardest to justify a bad decision. Best of luck this week. Hope Rawls can run for 61 yards for you. Hasn't done it in 11 months or so. In fact, I don't think any Seattle RB has... 

 
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Dr. Dan said:
:confused:

You brought it up....


Too many mouths to feed... you haven't been paying attention in this thread with regards to West vs Woodhead vs Collins. Do what you want. I just think you made a bad decision and you're trying to justify it with terrible reasoning, contradicting yourself even:

1. The 60 yard comment, then suddenly you don't care about 60 yards, even though you referenced it in terms of fantasy football above. Weird. 
2. You dropped him for a RB who is in a situation where there are way more mouths to feed, but Collins has too many mouths to feed for some reason, even thoug hthe coach has given a vote of confidence and Woodheads vlaue is more equal to Allen than Collins. But okay
3. You said many WRs on the WW can produce the same points as Collins (valid point) but you dropped Collins for a RB (not a WR) who has performed even worse than Collins. I get his situation this week is intriguing, but why not just state "I have byes and I think Rawls could be a great fill in this week." First you said his ceiling is 60 yards (false). Then you said you could drop him for a WR (but you dropped him for a worse RB). Then you said that you are just picking up Rawls for this week and dropped Collins to do it (okay, fine, fair point). Whenever people in this thread mention dropping him, I always ask for whom. Many say it's because they have to for byes. It's a fair point. But at this point in the season there are not many players who have volume, performance and potential equal to Collins available on the WW; he doesn't belong on a WW at all. He's perhaps the most under rated RB in fantasy at this point, largely because he isn't getting TDs. 

Don't mean to bust your balls os bad, but you say things that make zero sense... just better off saying "I needed a bye week fill in and Collins was odd man out." That's fair enough, don't start talking about how he's a bad RB. He's been in the upper 50% playing primarily part time. 
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You have a real love for this guy.  

I have been paying attention to this thread that's why i have been holding him for 6 weeks!

The 60 yard comment is because that's what he is averaging.  You keep talking about a trend but the only trend is really in touches.  His yards per game couldn't be all over the place.

Rawls has little to no competition for this thursday night. 

And again in PPR, 2 catches for 10 yards give me 3 points.  That's all it takes.  Throw in 30 yards rushing with that and you have the output of collins on most weeks.  That's not something difficult to achieve.

If you aren't in ppr and aren't td dependent i can see how he might be a good fill-in

Other than speculation though you don't really have anything to hang your hat on minus ypc and an increasing trend in carries which in reality isn't even a trend.  

I'll reiterate my main point, he is 46th in my league in rb scoring.  We start 2 rbs, there are 10 teams.  Most teams will carry 4rbs.  That still puts him outside the top 40 which are being carried by all the teams.  He is, in a td depdendent or ppr league, a bad fantasy rb.

Now, as i said above, i actually think he looks good but he's just not going to win that backfield outright in time for anyone to make a difference this year.  I'm not even sure Allen just doesn't steal that whole backfield back and west comes back and gets 6-8 carries.

This is the Burkhead/White/Gillislee argument all over again.  I think the main point from both arguments is that rbs on teams with coaches that continually don't commit to anyone are difficult to own and even more difficult to start

 
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if 60 yards (inaccurate, but I'll play along) ranked 13th in yards per game is nothing to live by in fantasy, what do we call 27 yards?

Collins averages double ypc what Rawls got last night. ouch. 

for the record I don't love the guy. I like him, but I don't like like him. I just dislike awful decisions and even worse justifications for doing so

 
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killface said:
I picked up thomas rawls for this week and this week only.  i was torn between collins and jones for the drop but quite frankly 60 yards per game is collins ceiling.  That's no way to live in fantasy
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oof

 
Dr. Dan said:
if 60 yards (inaccurate, but I'll play along) ranked 13th in yards per game is nothing to live by in fantasy, what do we call 27 yards?

Collins averages double ypc what Rawls got last night. ouch. 

for the record I don't love the guy. I like him, but I don't like like him. I just dislike awful decisions and even worse justifications for doing so
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Actually, I picked up 4 points from Rawls last night which would have similar to collins last game.  And unlike collins, rawls had that at the half.  

 
Snickers said:
Do you get more points for first half production?
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i don't but the choice was awash.  THe point of mentioning first half is that if they didn't gameplan away from the run he wouldn't have had a half bad night.  Edit to add, rawls actually got me 6 points last night which was much better than collins' last game

That being said, they are both terrible for fantasy.  I took a chance on rawls potential for a 1 yard plunge and a couple of catches.  you guys in here gloating over your guy (the 46th best fantasy rb!!!!), who put up 4 points last week as well, seems strange.  I dropped a piece of garbage for more garbage...whoa is me

 
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killface said:
i don't but the choice was awash.  THe point of mentioning first half is that if they didn't gameplan away from the run he wouldn't have had a half bad night.  Edit to add, rawls actually got me 6 points last night which was much better than collins' last game

That being said, they are both terrible for fantasy.  I took a chance on rawls potential for a 1 yard plunge and a couple of catches.  you guys in here gloating over your guy (the 46th best fantasy rb!!!!), who put up 4 points last week as well, seems strange.  I dropped a piece of garbage for more garbage...whoa is me
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Actually it wasn't. Collins is on bye. So 6 points is better than zero. However, we can play this game ROS and see how Collins finishes out.

You're very much a guy with a short memory. You hang your argument based on Collins' last game. You know two games ago he scored 16 in my league. That was pretty cool. When's the last time Rawls scored 16? Also, Rawls scored 6 as the lead dog. Collins shares time and still pulls in about 8 points or so. I can only imagine if they gave him 100% of the carries... 

Collins' outlook is way more promising than anyone on your WW. I'm sorry you don't see that. One positive to you dropping him is you don't have to come into this thread and you can just let us all enjoy our 46th best RB in peace. I'll bookmark this and we can come back to it in 7 weeks ;) Even next season... his outlook next year is phenomenal. Looking forward to keeping him for my last draft pick. 
Have a nice day, and it'll be nice not having to debate you any longer since you own no stock in this gem! 

 
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Pretty good article earlier this week on West even unsure what his role will be when he's back

I had no idea Collins was 9th in the NFL in yards gained since West went down. That's kind of hard to put back on the bench.

Link

 
killface said:
Yes, that's what i was doing...gloating about him being injured.  You can't really read can you
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Yes it is clear to me that is what you were doing when trying to argue that the Vikings made a bad decision trading a 1st round pick for Bradford, an obviously injury prone QB.

 
Biabreakable said:
Yes it is clear to me that is what you were doing when trying to argue that the Vikings made a bad decision trading a 1st round pick for Bradford, an obviously injury prone QB.
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Ugh, you are derailing the thread but how is that gloating?  I don't follow the vikings or the eagles.  I'm always amazed though because Bradford keeps getting high value picks in trade and is paid like a king and has done very little in his career.  That is all

 
I think everyone is a bit to hard on the guy for dropping Collins. I dropped him too during this weeks bye week pinch. And here is why:

0

2.2

8.2

6.2

5.5

7.4

3

15.3

5.1

The above is his fantasy production in my league this season.

He has three games left to prove a sustainable positive trend before our playoffs, and that is with Woodhead coming back. At best he has had one week out of eight that was very good. Outside of a 14 team league he isn’t a must hold. 

 
I Am the Stig said:
I think everyone is a bit to hard on the guy for dropping Collins. I dropped him too during this weeks bye week pinch. And here is why:

0

2.2

8.2

6.2

5.5

7.4

3

15.3

5.1

The above is his fantasy production in my league this season.

He has three games left to prove a sustainable positive trend before our playoffs, and that is with Woodhead coming back. At best he has had one week out of eight that was very good. Outside of a 14 team league he isn’t a must hold. 
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You will realize you made a mistake next week.

 
I Am the Stig said:
I think everyone is a bit to hard on the guy for dropping Collins. I dropped him too during this weeks bye week pinch. And here is why:

0

2.2

8.2

6.2

5.5

7.4

3

15.3

5.1

The above is his fantasy production in my league this season.

He has three games left to prove a sustainable positive trend before our playoffs, and that is with Woodhead coming back. At best he has had one week out of eight that was very good. Outside of a 14 team league he isn’t a must hold. 
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I don’t think it’s the fact that he dropped him, but the fact that he gave a stupid reason for dropping, then when asked about it, doubled down in the stupid, and when asked about that, he went full-stupid.

If you drop Collins because he’s not producing enough for you, that’s fine.  If you drop him, because you think there’s too many mouths to feed in Bal, that’s fine.  If you drop him because you think Baltimore’s running game sucks, that’s fine.  If you drop him because you have bye issues and can pick up a viable WR, that’s fine.  If you drop him because you just don’t like him, that’s fine.  

But don’t say his ceiling is LESS than what he averages & drop him for that reason.  Don’t drop him because there’s too many mouths too feed in Bal, & pick up a RB from an even more crowded backfield in Sea.  Don’t drop him b/c Baltimore can’t run, and pick up a RBfr an even worse run game.  Don’t drop him because you say you can pick up a WR, then pick up a worse RB.  And definitely don’t make these lame arguments about why Collins sucks just to switch between them each time you get called out for being wrong.

Just sayin’.

 
Magic_Man said:
I wish I could trade Collins for nice value, but I can't seem to get any interest. Tried packaging him with L. Miller, D. Murray etc & no bites. ANyone trade this kid yet?
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haha....i traded him and kamara for Watson the day before he got hurt.

Cut him in another league.  He was picke up and is now on the ww again.

 
tricky92 said:
Once that changes... and it very well could, his ceiling will sky rocket. He's a hold.
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Like I said in my other post, he is on the ww in my 12x16 league (TE premium).  With the bye weeks, DAL speculation, random injuries, you can be easily justified cutting bait.  Especially in PPR.

Mariota, Goff;  Bell, Kamara, Henry, McFdden, Conner(hc), Woodhead(ir); Hill, Fitz, Cooper, MJJ, Doctson; Kelce, Rudolph; K,DST

YMMV but he is not an absolute hold.

 
Short Corner said:
Like I said in my other post, he is on the ww in my 12x16 league (TE premium).  With the bye weeks, DAL speculation, random injuries, you can be easily justified cutting bait.  Especially in PPR.

Mariota, Goff;  Bell, Kamara, Henry, McFdden, Conner(hc), Woodhead(ir); Hill, Fitz, Cooper, MJJ, Doctson; Kelce, Rudolph; K,DST

YMMV but he is not an absolute hold.
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Yeah, I probably wouldn't drop any of those players for Collins. Maybe Rudolph? But, that's debatable. Some would argue the value of Doctson, but I'm big on him as well.

 
tricky92 said:
Yeah, I probably wouldn't drop any of those players for Collins. Maybe Rudolph? But, that's debatable. Some would argue the value of Doctson, but I'm big on him as well.
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I only have Doctson for bye week so he's likely gone next week.  Might be able to cut bait on McFadden soon too but I also have to make space for Woodhead coming off of IR.  TE's get 2ppr in our league so Rudolph is a definite hold.  

 
Short Corner said:
I only have Doctson for bye week so he's likely gone next week.  Might be able to cut bait on McFadden soon too but I also have to make space for Woodhead coming off of IR.  TE's get 2ppr in our league so Rudolph is a definite hold.  
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I would hold on to Doctson. My team is off tomorrow (Eagles) and the Vikings game is televised in my area, so I'm looking forward to the scouting opportunity. If he starts getting a handful of targets per game, I think he'll produce. It's all on Cousins, though. He seems terrified right now to throw more than 5-10 yards.

 
Bayhawks said:
I don’t think it’s the fact that he dropped him, but the fact that he gave a stupid reason for dropping, then when asked about it, doubled down in the stupid, and when asked about that, he went full-stupid.

If you drop Collins because he’s not producing enough for you, that’s fine.  If you drop him, because you think there’s too many mouths to feed in Bal, that’s fine.  If you drop him because you think Baltimore’s running game sucks, that’s fine.  If you drop him because you have bye issues and can pick up a viable WR, that’s fine.  If you drop him because you just don’t like him, that’s fine.  

But don’t say his ceiling is LESS than what he averages & drop him for that reason.  Don’t drop him because there’s too many mouths too feed in Bal, & pick up a RB from an even more crowded backfield in Sea.  Don’t drop him b/c Baltimore can’t run, and pick up a RBfr an even worse run game.  Don’t drop him because you say you can pick up a WR, then pick up a worse RB.  And definitely don’t make these lame arguments about why Collins sucks just to switch between them each time you get called out for being wrong.

Just sayin’.
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Be way cooler with the stupid calling stuff. Thanks.

 
His value in dynasty must be high. The Collins owner in 1 of my PPR leagues wants a 2018 1st (Likely late & not as valuable as we do also have developmental picks) plus McGuire for him. Is that the norm on Collins trades?

 
Mon, Nov 13

The Ravens are "not sure" Danny Woodhead (hamstring, I.R.) will be ready to play in Week 11 against the Packers.

Advice: "It's kind of hard to predict," said coach John Harbaugh. Woodhead himself was also noncommittal on his Week 11 availability when asked by reporters last week. Woodhead will practice on Tuesday, but the Ravens won't decide his status until after they see how he responds. Woodhead suffered what amounted to a torn hamstring in Week 1 and has been on I.R. ever since.
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This week seems like a favorable matchup for Collins. Outside of DET (WK 13) and IND (WK 16 - doubt I would make that move if I advanced), probably the best week.

 
Magic_Man said:
His value in dynasty must be high. The Collins owner in 1 of my PPR leagues wants a 2018 1st (Likely late & not as valuable as we do also have developmental picks) plus McGuire for him. Is that the norm on Collins trades?
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Just sold for a mid 2nd in my league.

 
I a PPR league, thinking of sitting Collins in favor of Tevin Coleman in the RB slot and DaVante Parker in the WR/RB flex.

With Coleman commanding the start, I think he's a must-start, especially in PPR where he'll still be used as a pass-catcher -- can see him sniff 100 combined, and him racking up 83 on the ground when he was getting stuffed in the backfield speaks to his ability to create and perform even when the D-line is getting penetration. SEA looks to have really improved against the run over the last 3-4 games, but I think Peterson getting nowhere against them last week is more due to the horrible ARI line play than it was to SEA looking especially fearsome. It's a tough match-up, without doubt, but volume will be there, as will be receptions and potential end zone looks -- creating a much higher floor than Collins.

Parker is interesting as well. MIA is horrendous, but Parker gets a lot of targets and Cutler seems to look his way a lot. 4 for 65+ seems to be Parker's floor, TB's D has been horrendous, and the kinds of plays they were getting burned by the Jets on  -- deep sideline passes -- are in Parker's wheelhouse, and his ability to run after the catch suits the inability of TB to stop receivers once the ball is in their hands.

I really want to rely on Collins, as to the point @BobbyLayne makes about this being one of the better matchups BAL has down the stretch is true. 

But just think that without the TD opportunities and the unknown of what that idjit Harbaugh will do if West is available makes me look elsewhere where floors might be higher.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
I a PPR league, thinking of sitting Collins in favor of Tevin Coleman in the RB slot and DaVante Parker in the WR/RB flex.

With Coleman commanding the start, I think he's a must-start, especially in PPR where he'll still be used as a pass-catcher -- can see him sniff 100 combined, and him racking up 83 on the ground when he was getting stuffed in the backfield speaks to his ability to create and perform even when the D-line is getting penetration. SEA looks to have really improved against the run over the last 3-4 games, but I think Peterson getting nowhere against them last week is more due to the horrible ARI line play than it was to SEA looking especially fearsome. It's a tough match-up, without doubt, but volume will be there, as will be receptions and potential end zone looks -- creating a much higher floor than Collins.

Parker is interesting as well. MIA is horrendous, but Parker gets a lot of targets and Cutler seems to look his way a lot. 4 for 65+ seems to be Parker's floor, TB's D has been horrendous, and the kinds of plays they were getting burned by the Jets on  -- deep sideline passes -- are in Parker's wheelhouse, and his ability to run after the catch suits the inability of TB to stop receivers once the ball is in their hands.

I really want to rely on Collins, as to the point @BobbyLayne makes about this being one of the better matchups BAL has down the stretch is true. 

But just think that without the TD opportunities and the unknown of what that idjit Harbaugh will do if West is available makes me look elsewhere where floors might be higher.
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 such a long post to state the obvious. Coleman is an rb1 without freeman and Parker faces tb. meanwhile Collins could be splitting with God knows who this week. 

 
yeah Coleman is an instastart for me and Parker has a great floor YTD

I was considering Collins in full PPR but absent  a TD you're probably looking at 6-8? And I can probably get 9-13 out of either Martin in a favorable or Mixon from his volume. Definitely going 4 WRs again this week and I don't feel good about a November FF team lacking options at RB.

 
BobbyLayne said:
yeah Coleman is an instastart for me and Parker has a great floor YTD

I was considering Collins in full PPR but absent  a TD you're probably looking at 6-8? And I can probably get 9-13 out of either Martin in a favorable or Mixon from his volume. Definitely going 4 WRs again this week and I don't feel good about a November FF team lacking options at RB.
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Considering Collins in 1 ppr myself. It's between him and Martin for me ugh

 
shadyridr said:
 such a long post to state the obvious. Coleman is an rb1 without freeman and Parker faces tb. meanwhile Collins could be splitting with God knows who this week. 
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Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!   ;)

I was actually struggling with this wanting to trust Collins in one of the last games I truly felt confident in him. 

 
Cowboysfan8 said:
Considering Collins in 1 ppr myself. It's between him and Martin for me ugh
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Really tough choice. Seems like almost a coinflip. I see 60 yards on the ground as a safe projection, with the both of them getting one or two catches (perhaps Martin with more). 

Martin has a higher comparative chance at a TD, and goes up against a MIA D that was a literal sieve against CAR this past week, making a power back like Stewart look like the second coming of Earl Campbell. 

GB is not a scary D, but they stacked the box against CHI last week and limited Howard & Co. to just 55 yards on the ground. Stacking the box against Flacco seems like a good idea, especially because that was the Titan's exact formula to beat the Ravens in Week 9 -- Flacco had over 50 attempts and was highly inaccurate and lost the game.

So I think Martin is the right call as he has higher upside, but it's close.

 
Technically this game kinda profiles as a positive game for Collins, but like I said Collins' biggest issue is Flacco.wanting to bomb it, and his odd RZ/Goal line usage. 8 in the box doesn't bother me since Flacco should be able to audible out of it unlike Trubisky. Remember, Trubisky doesn't have full audible power in the CHI offense.

 
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In my league, RBs picked in NFL third round are typically drafted in fantasy second round, and RBs drafted in NFLrounds 4-5 are picked in fantasy 3rd round of rookie draft. So, why would I trade Collins, who has already shown more skill than more third round backs, for a second or third round pick? At a minimum, he is worth a late first.  Eventually he will get a chance at those TD runs and then his value will sky rocket.

 
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az_prof said:
In my league, RBs picked in NFL third round are typically drafted in fantasy second round, and RBs drafted in NFLrounds 4-5 are picked in fantasy 3rd round of rookie draft. So, why would I trade Collins, who has already shown more skill than more third round backs, for a second or third round pick? At a minimum, he is worth a late first.  Eventually he will get a chance at those TD runs and then his value will sky rocket.
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Pipe dream. No one would pay that. They may very well draft a RB next year. That offense is in shambles. He's looked good but One double digit fantasy game. He's a hold of you have space.

 
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