RB Cam Akers, Free Agent (5 Viewers)

[JohnnyU]

The Achilles data point is still TBD on Akers imo.

Agreed. But the Achilles recovery data points for every other RB to ever pop one is very clear.

When the best outcome (Foreman) is a four year process of getting back to speed, it should give you pause for Akers this year.

Don't want to rehash arguments that will have no end, but every one of those few examples has other reasons why they wouldn't have recovered. Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully. Limiting to just RBs makes the sample size useless in a sport with tons of variables like football IMHO.
I think it's better to follow how it's going across major athletics, and based on that it seems to be just a matter of time before Achilles injuries are considered even less severe than ACL I juries currently are.

The data for RBs don’t support your argument.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Akers didn’t live up to his hype in college as a popular devy pick and people made excuses for him. Against all evidence, he ended up with good NFL Draft capital anyways which made people think the excuses were valid (and maybe some of them were). He hasn’t looked good in the NFL, had one of the worst injuries a RB can have, and still there are excuses. He’s never been the guy people wanted him to be imo.

 

[eighsse2]

If anyone's saying "Akers will be back, and he'll be fine. He'll be a fantasy stud for several years to come" then I'd agree they're blindly optimistic at best. But taking a chance on him (or holding onto him) on the cheap, and hoping for the whole "medicine is improving" and "small sample size" arguments to come to fruition, that seems totally reasonable, and it could pay off.

 

[candian fantasy guy]

To those of you still hanging on the achilles as the reason or concern I would encourage you to go back to the bottom of page 14 of this thread and start reading and hopefully that will serve as a reminder of how everyone thought he looked before facing 3 top 10 run D's in the playoffs when no one on the Rams could run.

Not sure what went wrong for him so far this off-season, but a little bit lazy to me to just start thinking it's the achilles.

Hanging on? The history is so clear, I’m not even sure how else to respond. He’s either very unlucky for facing such ferocious defences or quite possibly he’s just not that same athlete anymore.

 

[Chaka]

The Achilles data point is still TBD on Akers imo.

Agreed. But the Achilles recovery data points for every other RB to ever pop one is very clear.

When the best outcome (Foreman) is a four year process of getting back to speed, it should give you pause for Akers this year.

Don't want to rehash arguments that will have no end, but every one of those few examples has other reasons why they wouldn't have recovered. Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully. Limiting to just RBs makes the sample size useless in a sport with tons of variables like football IMHO.
I think it's better to follow how it's going across major athletics, and based on that it seems to be just a matter of time before Achilles injuries are considered even less severe than ACL I juries currently are.

The data for RBs don’t support your argument.

I think you're right and it's not just RBs. I also don't care how a MLB shortstop or a 6'9" NBA power forward or a defenseman in the NHL (defenseman is a position, right?) recovered from an Achilles.

The list of NFL RBs who have successfully returned from an Achilles to perform at a high level is Donta Foreman and...?

What about NFL players as a group?

Demaryius Thomas & Terrell Suggs. And? There are other players who have returned but how many high end guys have returned to continue to be high end guys? It's a very short list and Akers wasn't a high end guy to begin with.

Achilles treatments may be getting better but they're not there yet.

I wish Cam the best and I hope he proves me wrong and has a long, prosperous perennial All-Pro, HoF career. I sincerely do. But I think it's foolishness to hang fantasy fortunes upon him in 2022.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

The Achilles data point is still TBD on Akers imo.

Agreed. But the Achilles recovery data points for every other RB to ever pop one is very clear.

When the best outcome (Foreman) is a four year process of getting back to speed, it should give you pause for Akers this year.

Don't want to rehash arguments that will have no end, but every one of those few examples has other reasons why they wouldn't have recovered. Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully. Limiting to just RBs makes the sample size useless in a sport with tons of variables like football IMHO.
I think it's better to follow how it's going across major athletics, and based on that it seems to be just a matter of time before Achilles injuries are considered even less severe than ACL I juries currently are.

The data for RBs don’t support your argument.

But I think it's foolishness to hang fantasy fortunes upon him in 2022.

My league that drafted this afternoon agrees. He fell all the way to 11.4. 12-team PPR redraft.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully

Not for RBs though.

I recently read an article that highlighted the success stories, like Kevin Durant. It explicitly called out NFL RB as the exception.

To date, there hasn’t been a successful RB story. Akers would be the 1st, IF he shows some burst / power.

But we have yet to see that. I’m skeptical of both Akers & James Robinson’s ability to recover.

 

[menobrown]

To those of you still hanging on the achilles as the reason or concern I would encourage you to go back to the bottom of page 14 of this thread and start reading and hopefully that will serve as a reminder of how everyone thought he looked before facing 3 top 10 run D's in the playoffs when no one on the Rams could run.

Not sure what went wrong for him so far this off-season, but a little bit lazy to me to just start thinking it's the achilles.

Hanging on? The history is so clear, I’m not even sure how else to respond. He’s either very unlucky for facing such ferocious defences or quite possibly he’s just not that same athlete anymore.

Yeah, it's a lazy narrative that it's his achilles. You say it's clear and I'll show you a group of people who will say show me the RB who came back from this and then I'll show you a group that says show me the young RB in recent years with modern medicine whose career was never the same afterwards.


6 month's post achiilles he's installed as the feature back in the playoffs. Now 9 months later he's not playing because of the achilles? When you think about it, does that really make any sense to still be hanging on that the achilles is his big issue right now? Does not me but I guess it's clear to you.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

To those of you still hanging on the achilles as the reason or concern I would encourage you to go back to the bottom of page 14 of this thread and start reading and hopefully that will serve as a reminder of how everyone thought he looked before facing 3 top 10 run D's in the playoffs when no one on the Rams could run.

Not sure what went wrong for him so far this off-season, but a little bit lazy to me to just start thinking it's the achilles.

Hanging on? The history is so clear, I’m not even sure how else to respond. He’s either very unlucky for facing such ferocious defences or quite possibly he’s just not that same athlete anymore.

Yeah, it's a lazy narrative that it's his achilles. You say it's clear and I'll show you a group of people who will say show me the RB who came back from this and then I'll show you a group that says show me the young RB in recent years with modern medicine whose career was never the same afterwards.


6 month's post achiilles he's installed as the feature back in the playoffs. Now 9 months later he's not playing because of the achilles? When you think about it, does that really make any sense to still be hanging on that the achilles is his big issue right now? Does not me but I guess it's clear to you.

he didn’t play well in the playoffs though.

He looked slow & lacked burst. His YPC was bad. He didn’t show power or display YAC.

It was amazing he came back so quickly.

I would not describe what he did as “feature back” - Henderson was the receiving back and he split carries with Michele.

 

[Chaka]

Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully

Not for RBs though.

I recently read an article that highlighted the success stories, like Kevin Durant. It explicitly called out NFL RB as the exception.

To date, there hasn’t been a successful RB story. Akers would be the 1st, IF he shows some burst / power.

But we have yet to see that. I’m skeptical of both Akers & James Robinson’s ability to recover.

I thought Robinson's was a partial tear and the tendon didn't fully detach. I have to imagine that's a "better" case than a full detachment.

 

[menobrown]

he didn’t play well in the playoffs though.

He looked slow & lacked burst. His YPC was bad. He didn’t look power or show YAC.

I've covered this a million times and one last time.

I don't think he played poorly and again go back and read what people were saying in here when he returned.

Saying he lacked burst and slow is entirely your opinion.

The entire team could not run the ball.

McVay turned to him as the feature back with Henderson and Michel available. I guess he has no idea.

I guess 9 months later he's worse not better because no McVay is not using him. That makes no sense.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

he didn’t play well in the playoffs though.

He looked slow & lacked burst. His YPC was bad. He didn’t look power or show YAC.

I've covered this a million times and one last time.

I don't think he played poorly and again go back and read what people were saying in here when he returned.

Saying he lacked burst and slow is entirely your opinion.

The entire team could not run the ball.

McVay turned to him as the feature back with Henderson and Michel available. I guess he has no idea.

I guess 9 months later he's worse not better because no McVay is not using him. That makes no sense.

Definitely my opinion. No argument there.

I don’t know what makes sense. He got zero yards on his carries on TNF.

Maybe whatever that soft tissue injury he was nursing was had an effect.

McVay pretty clearly doesn’t like what he’s seeing now. If it’s not his Achilles, then what is it?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I thought Robinson's was a partial tear and the tendon didn't fully detach. I have to imagine that's a "better" case than a full detachment.

It may be. I don’t know. I am not a medical doctor (or any kind. Lol)

 

[King of the Jungle]

he didn’t play well in the playoffs though.

He looked slow & lacked burst. His YPC was bad. He didn’t look power or show YAC.

I've covered this a million times and one last time.

I don't think he played poorly and again go back and read what people were saying in here when he returned.

Saying he lacked burst and slow is entirely your opinion.

The entire team could not run the ball.

McVay turned to him as the feature back with Henderson and Michel available. I guess he has no idea.

I guess 9 months later he's worse not better because no McVay is not using him. That makes no sense.

Definitely my opinion. No argument there.

I don’t know what makes sense. He got zero yards on his carries on TNF.

Maybe whatever that soft tissue injury he was nursing was had an effect.

McVay pretty clearly doesn’t like what he’s seeing now. If it’s not his Achilles, then what is it?

There is this.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

There is this.

Oof - yeah, that’ll do it. That went beyond a whiff - that was an “ok maybe i won’t block that dude at all”

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Not a good sign for Akers not getting any PT when the same McVay ran him into the ground 6 months after surgery. And same McVay that continually played Gurley with a fork sticking out of his back over the same Henderson.

Edit: I think the last minute buzz on Kyren was inside info McVay was going to give him run on offense over Akers (whether it's because he's still hurt or just has shown nothing in camp).

 

[menobrown]

He got zero yards on his carries on TNF.

Come on already, we all saw the game.

If it’s not his Achilles, then what is it?

I don't know, Rams don't play starters in pre-season and I was not at camp but I don't think any medical technology I'm aware of shows people are worse 15 months from achilles recovery then 6 months. So it seems to be the most logical thing is, whether his current health with his soft tissue injury is the reason or he's just simply not having a good camp but that's the case and it happens. Sometimes people are just not in the right frame of mind of physically and/or mentally where they need to be to perform a very competitive job.

As an example I'm sure you saw the video I think posted here and making the rounds of what appears to be a blown assignment. That's a mental mistake which really has nothing to do with his health. Maybe that's been par for the course over most of camp?

But I keep going back to he was the feature back 6 months after achilles and now bench warming 15 months later. Rams have all kinds of GPS data on these guys. Whether we agree or not he looked good or bad last year McVay seemed to be believe he gave them their best shot and now 9 months later that's not the case. Again, I'm not even trying to be a smart aleck, I don't know any data which shows improvement post surgery in 6 months and then a decline 9 months later but McVay believed in him then and not now. That just seems to be that it's something else.

 

[menobrown]

There is this.

Oof - yeah, that’ll do it. That went beyond a whiff - that was an “ok maybe i won’t block that dude at all”

FWIW I saw Nate Tice break it down yesterday and according to him(and he's pretty smart), Akers was actually supposed to get out onto his route faster that blocking was not his responsibility. So an error but maybe one that is more mental then a personal business decision.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

There is this.

Oof - yeah, that’ll do it. That went beyond a whiff - that was an “ok maybe i won’t block that dude at all”

FWIW I saw Nate Tice break it down yesterday and according to him(and he's pretty smart), Akers was actually supposed to get out onto his route faster that blocking was not his responsibility. So an error but maybe one that is more mental then a personal business decision.

It looked to me like he wasn’t sure if he was supposed to get out into the flat, or block so he did neither.

 

[jtd13]

The Achilles data point is still TBD on Akers imo.

Agreed. But the Achilles recovery data points for every other RB to ever pop one is very clear.

When the best outcome (Foreman) is a four year process of getting back to speed, it should give you pause for Akers this year.

Don't want to rehash arguments that will have no end, but every one of those few examples has other reasons why they wouldn't have recovered. Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully. Limiting to just RBs makes the sample size useless in a sport with tons of variables like football IMHO.
I think it's better to follow how it's going across major athletics, and based on that it seems to be just a matter of time before Achilles injuries are considered even less severe than ACL I juries currently are.

The data for RBs don’t support your argument.

I didn't say it did. I said it's a terribly useless data set that doesn't support any argument.

 

[King of the Jungle]

There is this.

Oof - yeah, that’ll do it. That went beyond a whiff - that was an “ok maybe i won’t block that dude at all”

FWIW I saw Nate Tice break it down yesterday and according to him(and he's pretty smart), Akers was actually supposed to get out onto his route faster that blocking was not his responsibility. So an error but maybe one that is more mental then a personal business decision.

Just passing info. He looked confused to me, however Nate Tice is probably smarter than I am.

 

[Chaka]

The Achilles data point is still TBD on Akers imo.

Agreed. But the Achilles recovery data points for every other RB to ever pop one is very clear.

When the best outcome (Foreman) is a four year process of getting back to speed, it should give you pause for Akers this year.

Don't want to rehash arguments that will have no end, but every one of those few examples has other reasons why they wouldn't have recovered. Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully. Limiting to just RBs makes the sample size useless in a sport with tons of variables like football IMHO.
I think it's better to follow how it's going across major athletics, and based on that it seems to be just a matter of time before Achilles injuries are considered even less severe than ACL I juries currently are.

The data for RBs don’t support your argument.

I didn't say it did. I said it's a terribly useless data set that doesn't support any argument.

But it's the only data set and even if you expand it to other NFL players, or even players in other sports, it tells a very compelling story. That story isn't complete, it's not the final word but ignoring it is an exercise in magical thinking.

 

[eighsse2]

The Achilles data point is still TBD on Akers imo.

Agreed. But the Achilles recovery data points for every other RB to ever pop one is very clear.

When the best outcome (Foreman) is a four year process of getting back to speed, it should give you pause for Akers this year.

Don't want to rehash arguments that will have no end, but every one of those few examples has other reasons why they wouldn't have recovered. Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully. Limiting to just RBs makes the sample size useless in a sport with tons of variables like football IMHO.
I think it's better to follow how it's going across major athletics, and based on that it seems to be just a matter of time before Achilles injuries are considered even less severe than ACL I juries currently are.

The data for RBs don’t support your argument.

I didn't say it did. I said it's a terribly useless data set that doesn't support any argument.

But it's the only data set and even if you expand it to other NFL players, or even players in other sports, it tells a very compelling story. That story isn't complete, it's not the final word but ignoring it is an exercise in magical thinking.

This.
NO, it's not some alpha and omega, end of story, conclusive data. But if you were shown the data (you know, specifically the Achilles RB spreadsheet that's going around) in some kind of statistics class exercise and asked what you might conclude from it, and your answer is "Shrug, I have no idea, this is a useless data set. Just nothing meaningful whatsoever" then ... well ...

 

[jtd13]

even if you expand it to other NFL players, or even players in other sports, it tells a very compelling story

The story is very encouraging when you look at major athletics. That's why I think using a few old data point from RBs (most of which were about to be out of the league anyway) over many days points from broader major athletics like Olympic triple jumpers, Olympic gymnasts, basketball player, other positions in football, etc. is silly.

But if you were shown the data (you know, specifically the Achilles RB spreadsheet that's going around) in some kind of statistics class exercise and asked what you might conclude from it, and your answer is "Shrug, I have no idea, this is a useless data set. Just nothing meaningful whatsoever" then ... well

Making definitive or even predictive statements with any kind of confidence using 12 data points with wildly different circumstances but one common characteristic wouldnt go over well in a statistics class. The correct answer would be to remove the one characteristic so you can have 10x or more the sample size of similar cases.

It's been awhile since I was in college so maybe I'm rusty, but I did take more than a couple of statistics classes

 

[J Giles Band]

Achilles aside, maybe the other possibility is Akers isn't all that good to begin with?

 

[EBF]

Weird one. He was not a particularly good college football player. I pointed that out early in this thread. That's one thing that always bothered me about him. Looks like Tarzan, stats like Jane. Then he came in and had the promising rookie year. The thing about rookie years is that they can be misleading. I don't know how predictive 625 yards on 145 carries (4.3 YPC) is going to be. LeSean McCoy and Ray Rice had rookie years that were almost identical to that. So did Ameer Abdullah and Julius Jones. It can go either way with these young guys who don't have a long track record.

There's an argument that the FF community has always skewed a little too bullish on Akers. His production has never justified some of the rankings, but on the surface you could also say he was on the same trajectory as Rice and McCoy before he got hurt. So while it's maybe always been a case of jumping-the-gun-itis with him, he's also been unlucky with injuries. It's possible that his best football is ahead of him.

If you have him in redraft, you have to keep holding the bag at this point probably. In dynasty I'd be looking at the clips more than the box scores. If he's passing the eyeball test for you, maybe probe around with some offers if his owners start getting happy feet.

 

[LawFitz]

With both this guy and ARob, the FF community may have given the Rams decision makers too much faith. They've had a lot of hits - way more than fair share - but nobody hits 1000. Nobody.

 

[Chaka]

The story is very encouraging when you look at major athletics. That's why I think using a few old data point from RBs (most of which were about to be out of the league anyway) over many days points from broader major athletics like Olympic triple jumpers, Olympic gymnasts, basketball player, other positions in football, etc. is silly.

I'm sorry, is there a post in this thread that you could direct me to where we have data about Olympic gymnasts or triple jumpers who have popped an Achilles and returned to competitive status? Have any won medals? I am asking sincerely as I have no idea if it has ever happened.

Where are the cases of NFL players, a far different sport than gymnastics, basketball or triple jumping btw, returning to elite form after tearing an Achilles? It's Demaryius Thomas and that's about it. Suggs had a partial tear and that is a rather large distinction.

I'm not saying Akers can't do it, I sincerely hope he does, but how is it not magical thinking to think he will this year?

 

[LawFitz]

No RB had ever done it. No RB has still ever done it. Wake me when one does. Seems it won't be 2022 Akers breaking the 100% hit rate.

 

[jtd13]

The story is very encouraging when you look at major athletics. That's why I think using a few old data point from RBs (most of which were about to be out of the league anyway) over many days points from broader major athletics like Olympic triple jumpers, Olympic gymnasts, basketball player, other positions in football, etc. is silly.

I'm sorry, is there a post in this thread that you could direct me to where we have data about Olympic gymnasts or triple jumpers who have popped an Achilles and returned to competitive status? Have any win medals? I am asking sincerely as I have no idea if it has ever happened.

Where are the cases of NFL players, a far different sport than gymnastics, basketball or triple jumping btw, of NFL players returning to elite form after tearing an Achilles? It's Demaryius Thomas and that's about it. Suggest had a partial tear and that is a rather large distinction.

I'm not saying Akers can't do it, I sincerely hope he does, but how is it not magical thinking to think he will this year?

I have posted about it, but it may have been the trade thread or somewhere else on the board. Couldn't find the post after a cursory search. I'll summarize:
Olympic triple jumper Will Claye finished 4th in Tokyo after tearing his Achilles in late 2019. He was just off his career best jump during qualifiers, which was just under a year after his rupture iirc. Clay was 30 at the 2021 Olympics.
Russian gymnast Artur Dalaloyan tore his Achilles 3 months before the olympics. He won gold with the Russian team.
NFL cases: you pointed out DT and Suggs
Manny Sanders had the best non Manning season of his career 9 months after tearing his Achilles in December, and he was 32 that season.
Grant Delpit missed his rookie year and returned last year with strong play.
Navorro Bowman had a phenomenal year in 2015 after tearing his Achilles in the 2013 playoffs and missing one season.
CJ Uzomah recovered in 11 months and looked like his normal (not special) self last season, the year after injury.
That's the first few off hand I can think of, because I haven't looked at it closely since last season when I was trying to decide if I should go after Akers. I'm sure I'm forgetting examples.

And for the record, I'm highly concerned about Akers this year. I just don't think it's right to credit it to the Achilles. He seems like he's back to normal from that but in the doghouse for other reasons.

 

[The Man With No Name]

The Achilles data point is still TBD on Akers imo.

Agreed. But the Achilles recovery data points for every other RB to ever pop one is very clear.

When the best outcome (Foreman) is a four year process of getting back to speed, it should give you pause for Akers this year.

Don't want to rehash arguments that will have no end, but every one of those few examples has other reasons why they wouldn't have recovered. Achilles recoveries in major sports have been trending way up over the last 5 years, and guys that recover fast have almost always recovered fully. Limiting to just RBs makes the sample size useless in a sport with tons of variables like football IMHO.
I think it's better to follow how it's going across major athletics, and based on that it seems to be just a matter of time before Achilles injuries are considered even less severe than ACL I juries currently are.

The data for RBs don’t support your argument.

I think you're right and it's not just RBs. I also don't care how a MLB shortstop or a 6'9" NBA power forward or a defenseman in the NHL (defenseman is a position, right?) recovered from an Achilles.

The list of NFL RBs who have successfully returned from an Achilles to perform at a high level is Donta Foreman and...?

What about NFL players as a group?

Demaryius Thomas & Terrell Suggs. And? There are other players who have returned but how many high end guys have returned to continue to be high end guys? It's a very short list and Akers wasn't a high end guy to begin with.

Achilles treatments may be getting better but they're not there yet.

I wish Cam the best and I hope he proves me wrong and has a long, prosperous perennial All-Pro, HoF career. I sincerely do. But I think it's foolishness to hang fantasy fortunes upon him in 2022.

Back in 2002 LB Jamir Miller tore his in a preseason game and never played again. He was coming off an All Pro best season of his career and was 4th in DPOY voting. But yeah, better chances now than then.

 

[Chaka]

The story is very encouraging when you look at major athletics. That's why I think using a few old data point from RBs (most of which were about to be out of the league anyway) over many days points from broader major athletics like Olympic triple jumpers, Olympic gymnasts, basketball player, other positions in football, etc. is silly.

I'm sorry, is there a post in this thread that you could direct me to where we have data about Olympic gymnasts or triple jumpers who have popped an Achilles and returned to competitive status? Have any win medals? I am asking sincerely as I have no idea if it has ever happened.

Where are the cases of NFL players, a far different sport than gymnastics, basketball or triple jumping btw, of NFL players returning to elite form after tearing an Achilles? It's Demaryius Thomas and that's about it. Suggest had a partial tear and that is a rather large distinction.

I'm not saying Akers can't do it, I sincerely hope he does, but how is it not magical thinking to think he will this year?

I have posted about it, but it may have been the trade thread or somewhere else on the board. Couldn't find the post after a cursory search. I'll summarize:
Olympic triple jumper Will Claye finished 4th in Tokyo after tearing his Achilles in late 2019. He was just off his career best jump during qualifiers, which was just under a year after his rupture iirc. Clay was 30 at the 2021 Olympics.
Russian gymnast Artur Dalaloyan tore his Achilles 3 months before the olympics. He won gold with the Russian team.
NFL cases: you pointed out DT and Suggs
Manny Sanders had the best non Manning season of his career 9 months after tearing his Achilles in December, and he was 32 that season.
Grant Delpit missed his rookie year and returned last year with strong play.
Navorro Bowman had a phenomenal year in 2015 after tearing his Achilles in the 2013 playoffs and missing one season.
CJ Uzomah recovered in 11 months and looked like his normal (not special) self last season, the year after injury.
That's the first few off hand I can think of, because I haven't looked at it closely since last season when I was trying to decide if I should go after Akers. I'm sure I'm forgetting examples.

And for the record, I'm highly concerned about Akers this year. I just don't think it's right to credit it to the Achilles. He seems like he's back to normal from that but in the doghouse for other reasons.

Sincerely appreciate this. I plan to respond but I'm going to bed and I am sure tomorrow morning I'm going to be very active in the WSIS thread.

One thing that does stand out is Navarro Bowman. He had an ACL & MCL in 2013/14 off-season which he cam back from for an all pro season in 2015. His Achilles was week 4 of 2016. He did come back and have a fine 2017 with SF & Oakland logging 127 tackles but it was not an All-Pro or Pro Bowl season and it would be his final season.

 

[jtd13]

The story is very encouraging when you look at major athletics. That's why I think using a few old data point from RBs (most of which were about to be out of the league anyway) over many days points from broader major athletics like Olympic triple jumpers, Olympic gymnasts, basketball player, other positions in football, etc. is silly.

I'm sorry, is there a post in this thread that you could direct me to where we have data about Olympic gymnasts or triple jumpers who have popped an Achilles and returned to competitive status? Have any win medals? I am asking sincerely as I have no idea if it has ever happened.

Where are the cases of NFL players, a far different sport than gymnastics, basketball or triple jumping btw, of NFL players returning to elite form after tearing an Achilles? It's Demaryius Thomas and that's about it. Suggest had a partial tear and that is a rather large distinction.

I'm not saying Akers can't do it, I sincerely hope he does, but how is it not magical thinking to think he will this year?

I have posted about it, but it may have been the trade thread or somewhere else on the board. Couldn't find the post after a cursory search. I'll summarize:
Olympic triple jumper Will Claye finished 4th in Tokyo after tearing his Achilles in late 2019. He was just off his career best jump during qualifiers, which was just under a year after his rupture iirc. Clay was 30 at the 2021 Olympics.
Russian gymnast Artur Dalaloyan tore his Achilles 3 months before the olympics. He won gold with the Russian team.
NFL cases: you pointed out DT and Suggs
Manny Sanders had the best non Manning season of his career 9 months after tearing his Achilles in December, and he was 32 that season.
Grant Delpit missed his rookie year and returned last year with strong play.
Navorro Bowman had a phenomenal year in 2015 after tearing his Achilles in the 2013 playoffs and missing one season.
CJ Uzomah recovered in 11 months and looked like his normal (not special) self last season, the year after injury.
That's the first few off hand I can think of, because I haven't looked at it closely since last season when I was trying to decide if I should go after Akers. I'm sure I'm forgetting examples.

And for the record, I'm highly concerned about Akers this year. I just don't think it's right to credit it to the Achilles. He seems like he's back to normal from that but in the doghouse for other reasons.

Sincerely appreciate this. I plan to respond but I'm going to bed and I am sure tomorrow morning I'm going to be very active in the WSIS thread.

One thing that does stand out is Navarro Bowman. He had an ACL & MCL in 2013/14 off-season which he cam back from for an all pro season in 2015. His Achilles was week 4 of 2016. He did come back and have a fine 2017 with SF & Oakland logging 127 tackles but it was not an All-Pro or Pro Bowl season and it would be his final season.

Thanks. Knew I probably screwed one up.

 

[zed2283]

My league that drafted this afternoon agrees. He fell all the way to 11.4. 12-team PPR redraft.

Amazing insight, 2 days after the game.

 

[GoBirds]

James Robinson put some dings in the Achilles argument.

 

[Faust]

Los Angeles Rams' Cam Akers says conversation with Sean McVay about urgency happened in camp, didn't anticipate limited role in Week 1

 

[Dr. Octopus]

show me the young RB in recent years with modern medicine whose career was never the same afterwards

Isn't this like asking someone to prove a negative?

 

[menobrown]

show me the young RB in recent years with modern medicine whose career was never the same afterwards

Isn't this like asking someone to prove a negative?

I mean you can look at it however you choose but you know what I meant and I continue to stand behind my point 100% as I have since last August for Akers and later Robinson when I have continually said that people were over-reacting calling them done.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

show me the young RB in recent years with modern medicine whose career was never the same afterwards

Isn't this like asking someone to prove a negative?

I mean you can look at it however you choose but you know what I meant and I continue to stand behind my point 100% as I have since last August for Akers and later Robinson when I have continually said that people were over-reacting calling them done.

But your point comes down to "I don't think an achilles injury matters anymore, because we have not seen any examples recently, so therefore we have no negative data and that's a positive". That seems to be faulty logic whether you're ultimately right or not.

It's a long season, so I guess we'll see.

 

[menobrown]

show me the young RB in recent years with modern medicine whose career was never the same afterwards

Isn't this like asking someone to prove a negative?

I mean you can look at it however you choose but you know what I meant and I continue to stand behind my point 100% as I have since last August for Akers and later Robinson when I have continually said that people were over-reacting calling them done.

But your point comes down to "I don't think an achilles injury matters anymore, because we have not seen any examples recently, so therefore we have no negative data and that's a positive". That seems to be faulty logic whether you're ultimately right or not.

It's a long season, so I guess we'll see.

Well my point is it's no more faulty then what I keep hearing people say which is show me the RB who returned from this injury. Because we have no recent examples. Same thing. I'm pushing back on that faulty narrative.

 

[Chaka]

James Robinson put some dings in the Achilles argument.

Maybe but James Robinson had a partial tear of his Achilles, it didn't completely detach from the bone. I am not 100% which type Cam Akers had but I thought it was a complete detachment. Think about that and feel the back of you ankle now imagine that entire tendon pops off and shoots up into your calf like a rubber band. Elite athletes have a better chance of coming back from something like that (Demaryius Thomas and Terrell Suggs both did) but the examples of athletes across any sport coming back from this type of injury are few and far between.

@jtd13 posted a list upthread.

 

[Chaka]

Olympic triple jumper Will Claye finished 4th in Tokyo after tearing his Achilles in late 2019. He was just off his career best jump during qualifiers, which was just under a year after his rupture iirc. Clay was 30 at the 2021 Olympics.
Russian gymnast Artur Dalaloyan tore his Achilles 3 months before the olympics. He won gold with the Russian team.
NFL cases: you pointed out DT and Suggs
Manny Sanders had the best non Manning season of his career 9 months after tearing his Achilles in December, and he was 32 that season.
Grant Delpit missed his rookie year and returned last year with strong play.
Navorro Bowman had a phenomenal year in 2015 after tearing his Achilles in the 2013 playoffs and missing one season.
CJ Uzomah recovered in 11 months and looked like his normal (not special) self last season, the year after injury.

Finally got back to this, thanks again for putting in the time @jtd13 . *one thing I noticed in looking these up is most appear to have been Achilles tears not ruptures. HOWEVER, I have not scoured the internet looking for the doctors reports on the extent of the injury, I am only going by what I found reported in the news about each injury. If the reporting is correct only Willie Clay suffered a ruptured Achilles.

Clay had a full rupture and completed a stunning comeback 19 months later.
Artur Dalaloyan suffered a partial tear of his Achilles.
Manny Sanders had a torn* Achilles not a rupture. He came back and acquitted himself nicely, but he did bounce around four teams over the next three seasons.
Grant Delpit also looks to have had a tear*, not a rupture. He's a starting FS for the Browns this season.
Bowman He had an ACL & MCL in 2013/14 off-season which he cam back from for an all pro season in 2015. His Achilles was week 4 of 2016. He did come back and have a fine 2017 with SF & Oakland logging 127 tackles but it was not an All-Pro or Pro Bowl season and it would be his final season. It also may have been a tear* and not a rupture.
Uzomah also appears to have been a tear* not a rupture.

 

[jtd13]

@Chaka thanks for the added context. Like I said, I did the research last fall and am trying not to go down that rabbit hole again. I find the recent data compelling enough that I'm going to continue buying guys with Achilles injuries if they are getting discounted more than they would for other season ending injuries. Not really trying to convince anyone else of that position, but I'm pretty satisfied with what I've seen.

One question. I am not a Dr by any means, but are you sure a tear and a rupture are different things? A cursory internet search suggests they are the same (First example from Google)
I've never heard any distinction until now, but if it's a difference between the entire tendon snapping in half vs a partial tear then it makes sense one would have a better chance of recovering.

 

[Chaka]

@Chaka thanks for the added context. Like I said, I did the research last fall and am trying not to go down that rabbit hole again. I find the recent data compelling enough that I'm going to continue buying guys with Achilles injuries if they are getting discounted more than they would for other season ending injuries. Not really trying to convince anyone else of that position, but I'm pretty satisfied with what I've seen.

One question. I am not a Dr by any means, but are you sure a tear and a rupture are different things? A cursory internet search suggests they are the same (First example from Google)
I've never heard any distinction until now, but if it's a difference between the entire tendon snapping in half vs a partial tear then it makes sense one would have a better chance of recovering.

Like you, I am not 100% about the distinction. As I understand it a tear means just that, a part of the tendon is torn but the tendon remains attached. A rupture is when the entire tendon is severed and the entire thing needs to be reattached.

@Jene Bramel if you have a minute would you weigh in on the difference between a Achilles tear and a rupture? Are the terms interchangeable? Are there degrees to each? A lot of us are confused in here about most things but specifically this issue. TIA

 

[Rookiefever]

Rough week for all the rams offensive players last week. Imo, Henderson has always been the more electric rb and maybe getting their butts kicked the way they did that played a part. Akers has never been a finesse guy and I don’t remember him missing many blocking duties in college or his rookie year. So that’s leads to me to believe the “urgency” comments might have more to do with attitude or ego. As far as the Achilles goes that injury would hurt a guy like swift or Kamara a lot more than Akers. It’s clear to me McKay was set on humbling Akers. We’ll see how he responds and if he can stay healthy. Much better games are ahead of the rams. If Akers is the goal line back all this is back n forth is meaningless.

 

[The Frankman]

I'm thinking about putting a deal together for Akers... I just don't think he's donezo and in this offense he'll get another chance (no competition behind him for now and McVay never trusts Henderson for long). His value is so low right now you can pretty much get in for a song. I play in a 16-team short bench league (4 spots plus 1 IR) so RBs are hard to come by. Interestingly enough I have James Robinson and Breece Hall as my starting RBs.

 

[grateful zed]

I'm thinking about putting a deal together for Akers... I just don't think he's donezo and in this offense he'll get another chance (no competition behind him for now and McVay never trusts Henderson for long). His value is so low right now you can pretty much get in for a song. I play in a 16-team short bench league (4 spots plus 1 IR) so RBs are hard to come by. Interestingly enough I have James Robinson and Breece Hall as my starting RBs.

would damien harris be a good offer?

 

[jtd13]

Link -> McVay: 'loved the way' Rams RB Cam Akers responded this week
Link -> Expanded quotes from MCVay and Akers

I am leaning toward not believing a word out of McVay's mouth in general, but this does sound like a dog-house issue more than anything else. Those things tend to get cleared up. Maybe that's more of a bad sign for Henderson than it is a good sign for Akers at this point.

 

[The Frankman]

would damien harris be a good offer?

In a second. Like, some of the reactions to Akers on FF Reddit are that he's apparently lazy, has no acceleration to speak of, and Darrell Henderson will run for 1,500 yards this year.

Again, to me Akers is being challenged by his coach to "be better" after the preseason/1 game and a lot of fantasy outlets were so shocked they're preaching him as a must sit/drop (in 12 teamers). Akers has no competition behind him with Kyren Williams getting a high-ankle sprain and as I said earlier, Hendo never gets McVay's full trust. Unless you think Akers is neo David Johnson/has an attitude issue he's going to get opportunities to redeem himself and make this a 1A/1B committee again. There's a very quick "Buy Low" window here IMHO.

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm thinking about putting a deal together for Akers... I just don't think he's donezo and in this offense he'll get another chance (no competition behind him for now and McVay never trusts Henderson for long). His value is so low right now you can pretty much get in for a song. I play in a 16-team short bench league (4 spots plus 1 IR) so RBs are hard to come by. Interestingly enough I have James Robinson and Breece Hall as my starting RBs.

Perhaps he just isn’t very good