-jb-
Footballguy
Brown = mesquite, tamarind
Moss = Lentils, chickpeas
Reminds me of a joke differentiating a chickpea and a garbanzo bean, but we won't go there.
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RB Chase Brown, CIN (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Brown = mesquite, tamarind
Moss = Lentils, chickpeas
Reminds me of a joke differentiating a chickpea and a garbanzo bean, but we won't go there.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I am not sure about on a whole?
But certain RBs such as CMC was terrible at pass blocking early on his career. It didn't stop them from giving him a ton of snaps and opportunities.
As usual it depends on the RB.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, I mean no team is going to take a RAS freak like Chase and keep him on the bench - they just won't use him in pass pro. They'll find a way to get him on the field by chipping with a TE or something. FWIW, CIN has a couple of those types of TEs.
I don't think MIA is gonna relegate Achane to the practice squad because he's too small to block DEs - they're just going to use him to his strengths.
That all said, reportedly Chase has made progress in this area. Not sure how good of a pass blocker Moss is, comparatively.
brewer
Footballguy
There are very few true bell cows anymore. The Bengals are certainly unlikely to let either Moss or Brown be that this year. You can argue about what you think they will each do with their share of the snaps. It is certainly possible that either one of them is the more valuable asset on a fantasy roster this year.
I feel that Chase Brown is a better running back than Zack Moss. I know that Brown is faster and I believe that he has a better chance of breaking a long run, and it seems that he has gotten better at pass blocking. For all of those reasons, I think that Brown has a decent chance of being a better fantasy back than Zack Moss. Yes, I understand that Zack Moss has a 4.3 career yards per carry, has more experience and might have better power at the goal line.
I also know that I might be wrong. If you like Zack Moss better, please draft him instead.
I feel that Chase Brown is a better running back than Zack Moss. I know that Brown is faster and I believe that he has a better chance of breaking a long run, and it seems that he has gotten better at pass blocking. For all of those reasons, I think that Brown has a decent chance of being a better fantasy back than Zack Moss. Yes, I understand that Zack Moss has a 4.3 career yards per carry, has more experience and might have better power at the goal line.
I also know that I might be wrong. If you like Zack Moss better, please draft him instead.
The coaching staff has consistently raved about him....from last year's "he is developing before our eyes" through his off-season work and current camp reports.
The only film report on him I saw/heard was from Christopher Harris who said (based on limited snaps from last year) that he looks like he could be a star.
He's an upside play and it will be interesting to see how early he goes in leagues pending more news/hype. I am targeting him.
Moss could be a good pick as well but I expect to like other players better around his ADP.
The only film report on him I saw/heard was from Christopher Harris who said (based on limited snaps from last year) that he looks like he could be a star.
He's an upside play and it will be interesting to see how early he goes in leagues pending more news/hype. I am targeting him.
Moss could be a good pick as well but I expect to like other players better around his ADP.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
What do you think total touches will be?
I expect Brown to get the majority of receptions out of the backfield, so I expect their touches to be closer to 50-50, with a PPR edge to Brown.
nightmare
Footballguy
30ish rec's for Moss. Brown might get more receptions but he does not outscore Moss in PPR.
Moss gets around 6 rushing TD's.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I have no shares of either. I've always liked Moss. With a gun to my head, with money on the line, I'd prolly take Moss straight up here. The problem with projecting 30 receptions is that he has NEVER had 30 receptions. Kinda hard for me to project that
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Never has had 6 rushing TDs or 30 receptions…..hmm…,
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Color me skeptical that Moss has 30 receptions.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No. They’re both useful for a specific kind of build. Either hero RB or zero RB makes them a viable target for RB2 or ideally RB3.
With upside if either gets hurt or ascends.
Crapshoot RB can be league-winners.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
Nah, the offense should be good so I want a piece. Ideally they should be cheap enough to get one (at least in auction drafts)
My RBs this year are pretty weak, only definite starter is Kenneth Walker, looks like Brown might have to be my #2 considering my only other options are Tyjae Spears, Kendre Miller, and Jaleel McLaughlin.
Guy in my league who has Moss has 5 other RBs in front of him. Would sending a 2nd rounder his way be an overpay to get insurance on this backfield?
Guy in my league who has Moss has 5 other RBs in front of him. Would sending a 2nd rounder his way be an overpay to get insurance on this backfield?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I paid a 3rd + Brissett for Brown, so a 2nd should get it done I’d think.
between Moss, Brown, Spears you should be able to cobble together a RB2 playing the weekly matchups unless one emerges.
Depending on league size, they might even be worthy of RB2+Flex if you have them both.
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
Probably not enough to get him. As a Moss owner in Dynasty last year, he put up the following stats in PPR from Week 2 - 8 when he was on his tear with the Colts:
20.7
22.5
9
33.5 (this is the week J Taylor came back)
17.9
7.2
14.4
That's RB1 production and if he owned him last year during that stretch, I doubt he wants to give away the potential he saw with his own eyes for a 2nd.
With that said, if you dangled a 2nd and a player, depending on the player, I would be interested.
But I'm not trading a guy who's #1 on the Bengals depth chart for the opportunity to draft a guy 8-10 months from now. Especially with how frequently RB get hurt.
He was cut in one of my leagues before he signed with Cincy(which is bad managment but that's another story).
He was drafted in the rookie/FA draft at 2.4.
That was back in May, but all in all a second sounds right.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I personally feel it would sting and leave a bad taste giving a 2nd. Kind of like when vomit comes into your throat and subsides.
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
For comparison's sake, I was offered Diontae Johnson for him straight up about a month ago and I rejected it.
I'm solid at WR, thin at RB, but it goes to show you what other people think his value is. Many people value him as a starter. Nobody who has him rostered is going to give him up for a 2nd when other people are offering players like Diontae for him straight up.
I'm solid at WR, thin at RB, but it goes to show you what other people think his value is. Many people value him as a starter. Nobody who has him rostered is going to give him up for a 2nd when other people are offering players like Diontae for him straight up.
I will say I'd rather try and give up a second for Pollard then Moss.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I’d rather keep the 2nd over both, but that’s just me.
sheerterror
Footballguy
This is interesting. I own Moss and DJ in a league together (an orphan I just took over) and would have sold Moss for DJ or a 2nd in a heartbeat. I tried to sell Moss during our rookie draft, and whether it was testing the new guy, bad luck with who I interacted with or a microcosm of the league, but these were the offers I got and subsequently rejected:
Moss +3.1 for 2.8
Moss for 3.5
and then this gem
Moss + Jaylen Warren for 3.8+4.8
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I tried to buy Pollard for a 2nd in 2 leagues. No takers.
Brown & Moss are more affordable.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
I believe Birdgang was talking about Brown here… not moss. At least that’s how I read it since this is a Chase Brown thread.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He went (Moss) for a 3rd + Dortch in one of my 16 team leagues. That’s pretty much the equivalent of a 2nd in a 12 teamer.
I paid a 3rd + Brissett (to the Maye owner) for Brown.
I see their value’s as about equal.
Clearly your leaguemate valued him as a starter, but that doesn’t mean yall are setting the market. Trade calcs have them about even as well, and ADP is ~7 picks apart, but that fluctuates daily.
My favorite calc is Dynasty Dominator because it accounts for roster space & league size. Just checked to see if it agreed with the free calcs. Interestingly it has Brown worth 70, and Moss worth 54.4
Again, just a data point. Value is in the eye of the beholder, of course. A player is worth what you can get for him. If ya needed a WR, Dionte is a decent get, but at 28 and thin at RB, I agree you were smart to have rejected the deal for Moss.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Pretty sure he’s talking Moss, since he’s been on the Moss side of the debate pretty consistently and has said he’s a Moss shareholder, no?
VikingFrog
Footballguy
10-4
I just drafted Brown and hadn’t even popped into the thread till now and didn’t go very far back, so I guess my assumption was off on a post in a Chase Brown thread.
sheerterror
Footballguy
But his comment that I replied to I believe was in reference to this:
JAL56 said:
Guy in my league who has Moss has 5 other RBs in front of him. Would sending a 2nd rounder his way be an overpay to get insurance on this backfield?
I believe Moss is clearly the third most valuable dynasty asset, but believe Brown is the top of this group over Pollard.
They are literally going b2b in recent FFPC redrafts and Brown is 3 years younger with less mileage so it only makes sense he'd be more valuable.
Of course individuals in leagues can all vary. I had one league were Jayden Daniel was still on the board at 2.7. I offered Purdy and 2.11 to move up 4 spots. Dude shot back a counter wanting me to give him Pollard to just move up 4 spots in the second. I had made an early trade with the guy during the draft which seemed all fair, so I can only think he actually thought this was a solid offer.
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
Now taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind. He's one of those guys that always seems to fall forward for an extra yard or two, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights. He's got a very nice stutter step too, he makes multiple defenders look stupid, he gets them moving one way and then fat boy busts it outside. It's old school running.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
You act as if Moss is a big punishing RB. Not bad for a 5’9 212 lb bulldozer.Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights.
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.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Lucky for him he plays on an offense with Burrow, Chase, and Higgins, so there should be plenty of open holes for him to run through. Plus his usage as a receiver gets him into space, so… yeah.Now taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
You act as if Moss is a big punishing RB. Not bad for a 5’9 212 lb bulldozer.Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights.
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Watch the tape, he's dragging people, pushing the pile, and making second efforts at the goalline to score Touchdowns. I'm literally just telling you what he's done on tape. Here are few nice runs that you can choose to watch or not:
5:55: Nice goalline run where he needs to run through some traffic, sheds off initial contact and falls forward for a Touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=QtOMx9FEA-pDpi-j&t=355
6:21: The run is designed to go inside. It's not there, Moss does a stutter step to open a lane to the right. He bursts through the lane, runs through a defender in the secondary, then spins and drags a guy for another half yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=2zGRQm3CX4F7VKDj&t=381
6:38: Another great goalline showing for Moss. He takes the snap out of the gun and is immediately caught at the line of scrimmage and he just bullies through the defender for a touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=Qkr6AoXtIiIwtaBz&t=398
7:15: Maybe his best run on the tape. The run is designed to go up the gut, it's not there. He bounces off at tackle, makes a stutter step at the line and then bursts through the hole. Turns nothing into a 20+ yard gain and drags a defender an extra 2 yards to end the play
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7:47: Moss actually beats 3 different defenders on this play. The play is designed to go inside, he stutter steps outside, jukes out a defender, spins away from another defender, and then plows through a third guy who is hanging on for dear life as he falls forward for an extra yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=PW1-Am7oLOn82xhE&t=467
You're free to type his height and weight until your fingers fall off, but if you actually watch these runs you'll be able to see what I am saying. The guy is out there making people look stupid and beating them up.
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BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
1:45: Makes a nice cutback off an inside run that isn't there, booms for 10 yards and drags a Ravens defender for an extra yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=SdaYewWxXPHfM0CG&t=105
2:02: Moss punishes 3-4 defenders on this play. He takes it up the gut, sheds first contact, bounces off another would be tackle, and then burns out another 2.5 yards as two Rams defenders struggle to bring him down.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=njIrwADzpCp62mSr&t=122
2:24: Another great run where Moss takes it inside, shreds an arm tackle, runs into contact, pushes the defender for another 2-3 yards, before a few offensive lineman get behind him and start pushing the pile.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=NBJ8MCclq57VgXPb&t=144
There's plenty of tape on him showing power, toughness, physicality, and a nice stutter step or you can just tell me he's not physical because he weighs 212 lbs. He falls forward after first contact over-and-over again. It's there if you want to see it, but if you don't want to see it then you won't.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=SdaYewWxXPHfM0CG&t=105
2:02: Moss punishes 3-4 defenders on this play. He takes it up the gut, sheds first contact, bounces off another would be tackle, and then burns out another 2.5 yards as two Rams defenders struggle to bring him down.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=njIrwADzpCp62mSr&t=122
2:24: Another great run where Moss takes it inside, shreds an arm tackle, runs into contact, pushes the defender for another 2-3 yards, before a few offensive lineman get behind him and start pushing the pile.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=NBJ8MCclq57VgXPb&t=144
There's plenty of tape on him showing power, toughness, physicality, and a nice stutter step or you can just tell me he's not physical because he weighs 212 lbs. He falls forward after first contact over-and-over again. It's there if you want to see it, but if you don't want to see it then you won't.
Last edited:
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Yeah, as far as dishing out punishment he’s a regular Jim Brown.You act as if Moss is a big punishing RB. Not bad for a 5’9 212 lb bulldozer.Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights.
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Watch the tape, he's dragging people, pushing the pile, and making second efforts at the goalline to score Touchdowns. I'm literally just telling you what he's done on tape. Here are few nice runs that you can choose to watch or not:
5:55: Nice goalline run where he needs to run through some traffic, sheds off initial contact and falls forward for a Touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=QtOMx9FEA-pDpi-j&t=355
6:21: The run is designed to go inside. It's not there, Moss does a stutter step to open a lane to the right. He bursts through the lane, runs through a defender in the secondary, then spins and drags a guy for another half yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=2zGRQm3CX4F7VKDj&t=381
6:38: Another great goalline showing for Moss. He takes the snap out of the gun and is immediately caught at the line of scrimmage and he just bullies through the defender for a touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=Qkr6AoXtIiIwtaBz&t=398
7:15: Maybe his best run on the tape. The run is designed to go up the gut, it's not there. He bounces off at tackle, makes a stutter step at the line and then bursts through the hole. Turns nothing into a 20+ yard gain and drags a defender an extra 2 yards to end the play
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7:47: Moss actually beats 3 different defenders on this play. The play is designed to go inside, he stutter steps outside, jukes out a defender, spins away from another defender, and then plows through a third guy who is hanging on for dear life as he falls forward for an extra yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=PW1-Am7oLOn82xhE&t=467
You're free to type his height and weight until your fingers fall off, but if you actually watch these runs you'll be able to see what I am saying. The guy is out there making people look stupid and beating them up.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No one is surprised by clips of Moss playing well in the outlier season in which he actually played well. lolYou act as if Moss is a big punishing RB. Not bad for a 5’9 212 lb bulldozer.Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights.
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Watch the tape, he's dragging people, pushing the pile, and making second efforts at the goalline to score Touchdowns. I'm literally just telling you what he's done on tape. Here are few nice runs that you can choose to watch or not:
5:55: Nice goalline run where he needs to run through some traffic, sheds off initial contact and falls forward for a Touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=QtOMx9FEA-pDpi-j&t=355
6:21: The run is designed to go inside. It's not there, Moss does a stutter step to open a lane to the right. He bursts through the lane, runs through a defender in the secondary, then spins and drags a guy for another half yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=2zGRQm3CX4F7VKDj&t=381
6:38: Another great goalline showing for Moss. He takes the snap out of the gun and is immediately caught at the line of scrimmage and he just bullies through the defender for a touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=Qkr6AoXtIiIwtaBz&t=398
7:15: Maybe his best run on the tape. The run is designed to go up the gut, it's not there. He bounces off at tackle, makes a stutter step at the line and then bursts through the hole. Turns nothing into a 20+ yard gain and drags a defender an extra 2 yards to end the play
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7:47: Moss actually beats 3 different defenders on this play. The play is designed to go inside, he stutter steps outside, jukes out a defender, spins away from another defender, and then plows through a third guy who is hanging on for dear life as he falls forward for an extra yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=PW1-Am7oLOn82xhE&t=467
You're free to type his height and weight until your fingers fall off, but if you actually watch these runs you'll be able to see what I am saying. The guy is out there making people look stupid and beating them up.
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Not sure what you’re trying to prove with this. For a short sample size he was the lovechild of Jim Brown & Sweeetness,
But that’s not how his career has been. Lots of folks were surprised by his 2023 performance. It’s difficult to count on that for 2024, on a different team, in a time-share with the incumbent Brown.
You seem deeply convinced that he’s going to be the starter there, and get upwards of 70%+ of touches, and that just doesn’t jive with what the team is saying.
He’s likely to be a fine FF RB2 or 3. I don’t see anyone here really doubting that. Anything else seem like it’s pretty TBD.
You mentioned “moves” - I’ll again point to their respective RAS scores, the measure of athleticism. Brown’s is 9.8/10, exceptional, while Moss RAS score is 2.88/10. It’s difficult to agree that Moss has better “moves” than Brown, but again, we can all wait to see for ourselves in a few weeks.
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
No one is surprised by clips of Moss playing well in the outlier season in which he actually played well. lolYou act as if Moss is a big punishing RB. Not bad for a 5’9 212 lb bulldozer.Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights.
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Watch the tape, he's dragging people, pushing the pile, and making second efforts at the goalline to score Touchdowns. I'm literally just telling you what he's done on tape. Here are few nice runs that you can choose to watch or not:
5:55: Nice goalline run where he needs to run through some traffic, sheds off initial contact and falls forward for a Touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=QtOMx9FEA-pDpi-j&t=355
6:21: The run is designed to go inside. It's not there, Moss does a stutter step to open a lane to the right. He bursts through the lane, runs through a defender in the secondary, then spins and drags a guy for another half yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=2zGRQm3CX4F7VKDj&t=381
6:38: Another great goalline showing for Moss. He takes the snap out of the gun and is immediately caught at the line of scrimmage and he just bullies through the defender for a touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=Qkr6AoXtIiIwtaBz&t=398
7:15: Maybe his best run on the tape. The run is designed to go up the gut, it's not there. He bounces off at tackle, makes a stutter step at the line and then bursts through the hole. Turns nothing into a 20+ yard gain and drags a defender an extra 2 yards to end the play
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7:47: Moss actually beats 3 different defenders on this play. The play is designed to go inside, he stutter steps outside, jukes out a defender, spins away from another defender, and then plows through a third guy who is hanging on for dear life as he falls forward for an extra yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=PW1-Am7oLOn82xhE&t=467
You're free to type his height and weight until your fingers fall off, but if you actually watch these runs you'll be able to see what I am saying. The guy is out there making people look stupid and beating them up.
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Not sure what you’re trying to prove with this. For a short sample size he was the lovechild of Jim Brown & Sweeetness,
But that’s not how his career has been. Lots of folks were surprised by his 2023 performance. It’s difficult to count on that for 2024, on a different team, in a time-share with the incumbent Brown.
You seem deeply convinced that he’s going to be the starter there, and get upwards of 70%+ of touches, and that just doesn’t jive with what the team is saying.
He’s likely to be a fine FF RB2 or 3. I don’t see anyone here really doubting that. Anything else seem like it’s pretty TBD.
You mentioned “moves” - I’ll again point to their respective RAS scores, the measure of athleticism. Brown’s is 9.8/10, exceptional, while Moss RAS score is 2.88/10. It’s difficult to agree that Moss has better “moves” than Brown, but again, we can all wait to see for ourselves in a few weeks.
I was literally responding directly to somebody that told me, "Zack Moss has no go to moves" and that "Zack Moss doesn't have power". Here's a tip, YOU don't have to respond to every post in the thread. I'm having a specific conversation with @JohnnyU. Maybe you missed where he highlighted my quote in red, bold, and italics above. That should help provide context.
If you're confused about the context it's because I am explicitly not talking to you. We've already talked about the stats, that's why I've moved onto talking about their tape. I'm not trying to have the same conversation over and over again. I thought it would be nice to look at actual film instead of discussing the same stats over and over again. I'm not trying to convince anyone, I even did a similar writeup for Chase Brown's tape above that you're free to analyze as well. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. Have a nice day.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I didn’t say he didn’t have power, I just said you make it sound better than it probably is, especially for his size. He’s not a big powerful man. I stand by Brown having more athleticism given their respective RAS scores.No one is surprised by clips of Moss playing well in the outlier season in which he actually played well. lolYou act as if Moss is a big punishing RB. Not bad for a 5’9 212 lb bulldozer.Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights.
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Watch the tape, he's dragging people, pushing the pile, and making second efforts at the goalline to score Touchdowns. I'm literally just telling you what he's done on tape. Here are few nice runs that you can choose to watch or not:
5:55: Nice goalline run where he needs to run through some traffic, sheds off initial contact and falls forward for a Touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=QtOMx9FEA-pDpi-j&t=355
6:21: The run is designed to go inside. It's not there, Moss does a stutter step to open a lane to the right. He bursts through the lane, runs through a defender in the secondary, then spins and drags a guy for another half yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=2zGRQm3CX4F7VKDj&t=381
6:38: Another great goalline showing for Moss. He takes the snap out of the gun and is immediately caught at the line of scrimmage and he just bullies through the defender for a touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=Qkr6AoXtIiIwtaBz&t=398
7:15: Maybe his best run on the tape. The run is designed to go up the gut, it's not there. He bounces off at tackle, makes a stutter step at the line and then bursts through the hole. Turns nothing into a 20+ yard gain and drags a defender an extra 2 yards to end the play
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7:47: Moss actually beats 3 different defenders on this play. The play is designed to go inside, he stutter steps outside, jukes out a defender, spins away from another defender, and then plows through a third guy who is hanging on for dear life as he falls forward for an extra yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=PW1-Am7oLOn82xhE&t=467
You're free to type his height and weight until your fingers fall off, but if you actually watch these runs you'll be able to see what I am saying. The guy is out there making people look stupid and beating them up.
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Not sure what you’re trying to prove with this. For a short sample size he was the lovechild of Jim Brown & Sweeetness,
But that’s not how his career has been. Lots of folks were surprised by his 2023 performance. It’s difficult to count on that for 2024, on a different team, in a time-share with the incumbent Brown.
You seem deeply convinced that he’s going to be the starter there, and get upwards of 70%+ of touches, and that just doesn’t jive with what the team is saying.
He’s likely to be a fine FF RB2 or 3. I don’t see anyone here really doubting that. Anything else seem like it’s pretty TBD.
You mentioned “moves” - I’ll again point to their respective RAS scores, the measure of athleticism. Brown’s is 9.8/10, exceptional, while Moss RAS score is 2.88/10. It’s difficult to agree that Moss has better “moves” than Brown, but again, we can all wait to see for ourselves in a few weeks.
I was literally responding directly to somebody that told me, "Zack Moss has no go to moves" and that "Zack Moss doesn't have power". Here's a tip, YOU don't have to respond to every post in the thread. I'm having a specific conversation with @JohnnyU. Maybe you missed where he highlighted my quote in red, bold, and italics above. That should help provide context.
If you're confused about the context it's because I am explicitly not talking to you. Have a nice day.
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
I didn’t say he didn’t have power, I just said you make it sound better than it probably is, especially for his size. He’s not a big powerful man. I stand by Brown having more athleticism given their respective RAS scores.No one is surprised by clips of Moss playing well in the outlier season in which he actually played well. lolYou act as if Moss is a big punishing RB. Not bad for a 5’9 212 lb bulldozer.Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights.
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Watch the tape, he's dragging people, pushing the pile, and making second efforts at the goalline to score Touchdowns. I'm literally just telling you what he's done on tape. Here are few nice runs that you can choose to watch or not:
5:55: Nice goalline run where he needs to run through some traffic, sheds off initial contact and falls forward for a Touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=QtOMx9FEA-pDpi-j&t=355
6:21: The run is designed to go inside. It's not there, Moss does a stutter step to open a lane to the right. He bursts through the lane, runs through a defender in the secondary, then spins and drags a guy for another half yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=2zGRQm3CX4F7VKDj&t=381
6:38: Another great goalline showing for Moss. He takes the snap out of the gun and is immediately caught at the line of scrimmage and he just bullies through the defender for a touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=Qkr6AoXtIiIwtaBz&t=398
7:15: Maybe his best run on the tape. The run is designed to go up the gut, it's not there. He bounces off at tackle, makes a stutter step at the line and then bursts through the hole. Turns nothing into a 20+ yard gain and drags a defender an extra 2 yards to end the play
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7:47: Moss actually beats 3 different defenders on this play. The play is designed to go inside, he stutter steps outside, jukes out a defender, spins away from another defender, and then plows through a third guy who is hanging on for dear life as he falls forward for an extra yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=PW1-Am7oLOn82xhE&t=467
You're free to type his height and weight until your fingers fall off, but if you actually watch these runs you'll be able to see what I am saying. The guy is out there making people look stupid and beating them up.
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Not sure what you’re trying to prove with this. For a short sample size he was the lovechild of Jim Brown & Sweeetness,
But that’s not how his career has been. Lots of folks were surprised by his 2023 performance. It’s difficult to count on that for 2024, on a different team, in a time-share with the incumbent Brown.
You seem deeply convinced that he’s going to be the starter there, and get upwards of 70%+ of touches, and that just doesn’t jive with what the team is saying.
He’s likely to be a fine FF RB2 or 3. I don’t see anyone here really doubting that. Anything else seem like it’s pretty TBD.
You mentioned “moves” - I’ll again point to their respective RAS scores, the measure of athleticism. Brown’s is 9.8/10, exceptional, while Moss RAS score is 2.88/10. It’s difficult to agree that Moss has better “moves” than Brown, but again, we can all wait to see for ourselves in a few weeks.
I was literally responding directly to somebody that told me, "Zack Moss has no go to moves" and that "Zack Moss doesn't have power". Here's a tip, YOU don't have to respond to every post in the thread. I'm having a specific conversation with @JohnnyU. Maybe you missed where he highlighted my quote in red, bold, and italics above. That should help provide context.
If you're confused about the context it's because I am explicitly not talking to you. Have a nice day.
Nobody here thinks that Zack Moss is more athletic than Chase Brown. If Chase Brown had a bag of moves, he would literally be the second coming of Adrian Peterson. I haven't seen Chase Brown beat defenders 1 on 1 and that's partially because he doesn't have to when he's running wide open in designed space.
I think Chase Brown is a great runningback. My writeup of him was meant to be complementary, the only reason we are even talking about Zack Moss still is because you brought him up again, lol. My first post in this thread today was me trying to evaluate the player this thread is about.
RB Chase Brown, CIN
radishes and ginger. I'm off of root crops and on to legumes. Try to keep up. Brown = mesquite, tamarind Moss = Lentils, chickpeas Reminds me of a joke differentiating a chickpea and a garbanzo bean, but we won't go there.
forums.footballguys.com
I made an in-depth post breaking down Chase Brown's film from last year and somehow we got back to talking about Zack Moss which is the exact opposite of what I was trying to do, old sport. I was trying to compliment your guy and you wouldn't even let me do that!!
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
No, I don’t have to, but I chose to.
It’s a discussion forum. We’re disucussing.
Try to relax. Maybe focus on the substance of what I posted. If you want to have a private discussion with another member, there’s a PM feature for that. When you post on a public forum it’s open to anyone to reply. Just an FYI.
J Giles Band
Footballguy
To JohnnyU's point (and we all understand he is making a joke)... Moss should never be mentioned in the same breath as Jim Brown. Probably not even Joe Mixon.
But one thing never changes in the Shark Pool... new guys love to plant their flags. Then piss & vinegar...
But one thing never changes in the Shark Pool... new guys love to plant their flags. Then piss & vinegar...
BIRDGANG52
Footballguy
I just don't appreciate that you're acting like I'm trying to convince people that Zack Moss is better. I literally came in here to post my interpretation of Chase Brown's film from last year.
Here, I'll quote the post for you again. It was other people who brought up Zack Moss and then you're in here acting like I've got some kind of agenda. I actually wanted to talk about Chase Brown, but since apparently that's not going to happen, I'll just step out again. I said a lot of nice things about Chase Brown, but somehow it became another Zack Moss discussion which is what I was trying to avoid... but then accused of doing when it was other people who brought the guy up in a 5 paragraph writeup of Chase Brown.
Instead of responding to my writeup, it turned into another dumb pissing contest. My first sentence literally says, "Now taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely". Birdgang52 out.
Now taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Radishes, ginger, lentils, old sport? Alrighty then.I didn’t say he didn’t have power, I just said you make it sound better than it probably is, especially for his size. He’s not a big powerful man. I stand by Brown having more athleticism given their respective RAS scores.No one is surprised by clips of Moss playing well in the outlier season in which he actually played well. lolYou act as if Moss is a big punishing RB. Not bad for a 5’9 212 lb bulldozer.Moss is the one lacking a “go to move”, lolNow taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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You're right, he's got a full variety of moves to pick from. He wins with patient running, he wins by pushing forward for 2-3 extra yards after initial contact. He's very physical. He makes his bread beating up on defenders and picking the correct running lane consistently. You'll see multiple instances of defenders bouncing off this guy, he's got a low center of gravity and all that good stuff.
He's out there punishing people that try to tackle him. Even when he gets tackled for a 2 yard gain, he makes the defender pay for it. He's out there pushing the pile, you won't find a single highlight of Chase Brown pushing the pile with 2-3 guys pushing him from behind, you'll see it quite in a bit in these highlights.
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Watch the tape, he's dragging people, pushing the pile, and making second efforts at the goalline to score Touchdowns. I'm literally just telling you what he's done on tape. Here are few nice runs that you can choose to watch or not:
5:55: Nice goalline run where he needs to run through some traffic, sheds off initial contact and falls forward for a Touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=QtOMx9FEA-pDpi-j&t=355
6:21: The run is designed to go inside. It's not there, Moss does a stutter step to open a lane to the right. He bursts through the lane, runs through a defender in the secondary, then spins and drags a guy for another half yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=2zGRQm3CX4F7VKDj&t=381
6:38: Another great goalline showing for Moss. He takes the snap out of the gun and is immediately caught at the line of scrimmage and he just bullies through the defender for a touchdown.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=Qkr6AoXtIiIwtaBz&t=398
7:15: Maybe his best run on the tape. The run is designed to go up the gut, it's not there. He bounces off at tackle, makes a stutter step at the line and then bursts through the hole. Turns nothing into a 20+ yard gain and drags a defender an extra 2 yards to end the play
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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
7:47: Moss actually beats 3 different defenders on this play. The play is designed to go inside, he stutter steps outside, jukes out a defender, spins away from another defender, and then plows through a third guy who is hanging on for dear life as he falls forward for an extra yard.
https://youtu.be/1H9PjOb0SLY?si=PW1-Am7oLOn82xhE&t=467
You're free to type his height and weight until your fingers fall off, but if you actually watch these runs you'll be able to see what I am saying. The guy is out there making people look stupid and beating them up.
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
Not sure what you’re trying to prove with this. For a short sample size he was the lovechild of Jim Brown & Sweeetness,
But that’s not how his career has been. Lots of folks were surprised by his 2023 performance. It’s difficult to count on that for 2024, on a different team, in a time-share with the incumbent Brown.
You seem deeply convinced that he’s going to be the starter there, and get upwards of 70%+ of touches, and that just doesn’t jive with what the team is saying.
He’s likely to be a fine FF RB2 or 3. I don’t see anyone here really doubting that. Anything else seem like it’s pretty TBD.
You mentioned “moves” - I’ll again point to their respective RAS scores, the measure of athleticism. Brown’s is 9.8/10, exceptional, while Moss RAS score is 2.88/10. It’s difficult to agree that Moss has better “moves” than Brown, but again, we can all wait to see for ourselves in a few weeks.
I was literally responding directly to somebody that told me, "Zack Moss has no go to moves" and that "Zack Moss doesn't have power". Here's a tip, YOU don't have to respond to every post in the thread. I'm having a specific conversation with @JohnnyU. Maybe you missed where he highlighted my quote in red, bold, and italics above. That should help provide context.
If you're confused about the context it's because I am explicitly not talking to you. Have a nice day.
Nobody here thinks that Zack Moss is more athletic than Chase Brown. If Chase Brown had a bag of moves, he would literally be the second coming of Adrian Peterson. I haven't seen Chase Brown beat defenders 1 on 1 and that's partially because he doesn't have to when he's running wide open in designed space.
I think Chase Brown is a great runningback. My writeup of him was meant to be complementary, the only reason we are even talking about Zack Moss still is because you brought him up again, lol. My first post in this thread today was me trying to evaluate the player this thread is about.
RB Chase Brown, CIN
radishes and ginger. I'm off of root crops and on to legumes. Try to keep up. Brown = mesquite, tamarind Moss = Lentils, chickpeas Reminds me of a joke differentiating a chickpea and a garbanzo bean, but we won't go there.
I made an in-depth post breaking down Chase Brown's film from last year and somehow we got back to talking about Zack Moss which is the exact opposite of what I was trying to do, old sport. I was trying to compliment your guy and you wouldn't even let me do that!!
JohnnyU
Footballguy
You did plenty of Zach Moss love already in this Chase Brown thread. So you don’t get to tell everyone else to turn it on and off.
I just don't appreciate that you're acting like I'm trying to convince people that Zack Moss is better. I literally came in here to post my interpretation of Chase Brown's film from last year.
Here, I'll quote the post for you again. It was other people who brought up Zack Moss and then you're in here acting like I've got some kind of agenda. I actually wanted to talk about Chase Brown, but since apparently that's not going to happen, I'll just step out again. I said a lot of nice things about Chase Brown, but somehow it became another Zack Moss discussion which is what I was trying to avoid... but then accused of doing when it was other people who brought the guy up in a 5 paragraph writeup of Chase Brown.
Instead of responding to my writeup, it turned into another dumb pissing contest. My first sentence literally says, "Now taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely". Birdgang52 out.
Now taking Zack Moss out of the equation completely, looking at these highlights (but you have to be careful because sometimes these cats will slip in preseason highlights without telling you), is that Chase Brown is 100% capable of busting 10 to 20 yard gainers when he's given space. If you give him a nice big hole and 25 yards of open running lanes, he's going to give you more yards in those types of situations than 70% of RB in the league.
But that's the extent of it, kind of reminds me of David Wilson. You guys remember David Wilson? When you gave that guy a wide open lane, he would take it to the house, but when those lanes weren't there he would run directly into the line or get tackled by weak arm tackles.
Chase Brown's deficiency as a player to me, is that he doesn't really have a "go to move". In those highlights, you don't see a any sick juke move, or a stutter step, or him bullying through people. Just a ton of plays of him eating up yards in space, which is great, you can make a living off that and those plays count just like any others, but he needs to find a way to consistently beat defenders 1 on 1 without relying on space being designed for him.
If he can do that, then he could legitimately be one of the top RB in the league, but in lieu of that he's going to be at most an 8 - 10 touch guy that you bring in on 2nd and long to take advantage of the space created by the defense being spread out defending the first down marker 10 - 15 yards down the field. He'll make you pay in prevent defense, 2 minute drill type situations where space will be plentiful, but on 3rd and 5 or 2nd and 7, he's going to consistently get blown up at or near the line of scrimmage.
Not saying that he can't improve as a runner because of course he can, but right now the reason he was drafted in the 5th is the same reason that inherently limits his upside. Physically he's just as athletic as any other RB, he reminds me of Trey Benson minus the suite of football moves that Trey Benson brings to the table. But Chase 100% has soft hands and a gear most guys don't have, but that is where my list of complements ends for him.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Hey, we’re just talking ball here….so, ya know, everybody calm down.
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