RB Chase Brown, CIN (1 Viewer)

[jm192]

Kluge just tweeted that Moss not Brown is #1 on the Bengals official depth chart

Dave Kluge
Zack Moss is listed as the RB1 and Chase Brown is the primary kick returner on the Bengals' official Week 1 depth chart.

Panic.

x.com

x.com

Dave says things tongue-in-cheek a lot. I don’t think anyone needs to panic about Brown. lol

I certainly wouldn't panic.

But I think it matters, right?

Kyren Williams gets listed as a punt returner, and that has caused everyone to stand up and take notice. The Kyren thread is full of "that doesn't seem good." "Moving Corum up my ranks." And Kyren's far more established than Brown.

Brown is an explosive player, and he's still going to get touches. But the current situation points towards more volume for Moss. I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Brown is an explosive player, and he's still going to get touches. But the current situation points towards more volume for Moss. I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

Fortunately for me, I don't have to.

 

[Gally]

I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

Do you start Brown or Jaylen Warren week 1 (assuming Warren is active)? We get 4 pt bonus for 50 yds rushing or 50 yds receiving and points for return yards (not a lot but some). Also, 1/2PPR.

Just wondering where Brown kind of fits in that flex kind of spot of lineup choices.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

Do you start Brown or Jaylen Warren week 1 (assuming Warren is active)? We get 4 pt bonus for 50 yds rushing or 50 yds receiving and points for return yards (not a lot but some). Also, 1/2PPR.

Just wondering where Brown kind of fits in that flex kind of spot of lineup choices.

I have both and I'm starting neither, though if Warren didn't have the hammy I'd probably flex him.

 

[-jb-]

Kluge just tweeted that Moss not Brown is #1 on the Bengals official depth chart

Dave Kluge
Zack Moss is listed as the RB1 and Chase Brown is the primary kick returner on the Bengals' official Week 1 depth chart.

Panic.

x.com

x.com

Dave says things tongue-in-cheek a lot. I don’t think anyone needs to panic about Brown. lol

I certainly wouldn't panic.

But I think it matters, right?

Kyren Williams gets listed as a punt returner, and that has caused everyone to stand up and take notice. The Kyren thread is full of "that doesn't seem good." "Moving Corum up my ranks." And Kyren's far more established than Brown.

Brown is an explosive player, and he's still going to get touches. But the current situation points towards more volume for Moss. I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

wildly different draft capital at play, where you're looking to secure a floor with kyren vs ceiling with brown. eta - that said, i moved kyren down a smidge and left brown where he was.

 

[menobrown]

I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

Do you start Brown or Jaylen Warren week 1 (assuming Warren is active)? We get 4 pt bonus for 50 yds rushing or 50 yds receiving and points for return yards (not a lot but some). Also, 1/2PPR.

Just wondering where Brown kind of fits in that flex kind of spot of lineup choices.

I don't agree with jm192 on the situation suggesting Moss is going to get more touches and I would start Brown on the basis the RB screen game is something the Bengals want to make a big part of their offense and either no or limited Chase should increase the need to rely on that aspect.

 

[jm192]

I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

Do you start Brown or Jaylen Warren week 1 (assuming Warren is active)? We get 4 pt bonus for 50 yds rushing or 50 yds receiving and points for return yards (not a lot but some). Also, 1/2PPR.

Just wondering where Brown kind of fits in that flex kind of spot of lineup choices.

I don't agree with jm192 on the situation suggesting Moss is going to get more touches and I would start Brown on the basis the RB screen game is something the Bengals want to make a big part of their offense and either no or limited Chase should increase the need to rely on that aspect.

What do you base that on?

The Bengals are listing Moss as the starter and they're even putting Brown on KR return duty. That sure seems to be data points supporting Moss as the guy to touch the ball more.
I'm certainly open to logical arguments as to why that's not the case. But the information we have points in that direction.

"I think the Bengals want to use the screen game" feels like some hopeful thinking, not factual information. You've got Joe Burrow and Tee Higgins. Moss is effective in the passing game. How many screens do you think they throw even in the event they're emphasizing it? Does every single screen play go to Brown?

I think the more likely scenario is they spank the Patriots and we see them grinding out the clock in the 2nd half.

 

[jm192]

Kluge just tweeted that Moss not Brown is #1 on the Bengals official depth chart

Dave Kluge
Zack Moss is listed as the RB1 and Chase Brown is the primary kick returner on the Bengals' official Week 1 depth chart.

Panic.

x.com

x.com

Dave says things tongue-in-cheek a lot. I don’t think anyone needs to panic about Brown. lol

I certainly wouldn't panic.

But I think it matters, right?

Kyren Williams gets listed as a punt returner, and that has caused everyone to stand up and take notice. The Kyren thread is full of "that doesn't seem good." "Moving Corum up my ranks." And Kyren's far more established than Brown.

Brown is an explosive player, and he's still going to get touches. But the current situation points towards more volume for Moss. I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

wildly different draft capital at play, where you're looking to secure a floor with kyren vs ceiling with brown. eta - that said, i moved kyren down a smidge and left brown where he was.

Different caliber of players for sure.

But either the KR/PR designation means nothing for either of their values, or it means something for both of their values.

If Kyren as a PR means that Corum has more of a role than we thought, Brown as a KR has to mean SOMETHING for Moss.

 

[massraider]

Panic about Kyren doing punts, and people shrugging about Chase doing KO sure doesn't seem consistent.

 

[menobrown]

I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

Do you start Brown or Jaylen Warren week 1 (assuming Warren is active)? We get 4 pt bonus for 50 yds rushing or 50 yds receiving and points for return yards (not a lot but some). Also, 1/2PPR.

Just wondering where Brown kind of fits in that flex kind of spot of lineup choices.

I don't agree with jm192 on the situation suggesting Moss is going to get more touches and I would start Brown on the basis the RB screen game is something the Bengals want to make a big part of their offense and either no or limited Chase should increase the need to rely on that aspect.

What do you base that on?

The Bengals are listing Moss as the starter and they're even putting Brown on KR return duty. That sure seems to be data points supporting Moss as the guy to touch the ball more.
I'm certainly open to logical arguments as to why that's not the case. But the information we have points in that direction.

I was going to ask you the same question but you already answered it. I just don't put much stock in needing to list one atop the other on the depth chart.

I'm basing my expectaions on a large amount of volume of reports and coach speak.

 

[menobrown]

Panic about Kyren doing punts, and people shrugging about Chase doing KO sure doesn't seem consistent.

It's not and I've drafted Kyren twice since that report so I can at least say I'm consistent in that for me it means nothing to me.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Panic about Kyren doing punts, and people shrugging about Chase doing KO sure doesn't seem consistent.

I'm neither panicked about Kyren nor shrugging about Chase.

The difference in responses is likely inconsistent because it was assumed that Kyren was the RB1 and people were shrugging off the draft capital of Corum. So if it ends up more of a RBBC that would be a pretty significant change - but at this time we still don't know that. I avoided the situation because of the ambiguity of LAR drafting Corum, a very talented RB.

Meanwhile in Cinci, the assumption was that it would be RBBC, hot hand, Moss between the tackles, Brown in the receiving role and a complimentary number of carries.

Different teams, different starting presumptions, different situations. It's inconsistent because it's apples and oranges.

 

[jm192]

Panic about Kyren doing punts, and people shrugging about Chase doing KO sure doesn't seem consistent.

I'm neither panicked about Kyren nor shrugging about Chase.

The difference in responses is likely inconsistent because it was assumed that Kyren was the RB1 and people were shrugging off the draft capital of Corum. So if it ends up more of a RBBC that would be a pretty significant change - but at this time we still don't know that. I avoided the situation because of the ambiguity of LAR drafting Corum, a very talented RB.

Meanwhile in Cinci, the assumption was that it would be RBBC, hot hand, Moss between the tackles, Brown in the receiving role and a complimentary number of carries.

Different teams, different starting presumptions, different situations. It's inconsistent because it's apples and oranges.

Well

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

 

[barackdhouse]

I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

Do you start Brown or Jaylen Warren week 1 (assuming Warren is active)? We get 4 pt bonus for 50 yds rushing or 50 yds receiving and points for return yards (not a lot but some). Also, 1/2PPR.

Just wondering where Brown kind of fits in that flex kind of spot of lineup choices.

I don't agree with jm192 on the situation suggesting Moss is going to get more touches and I would start Brown on the basis the RB screen game is something the Bengals want to make a big part of their offense and either no or limited Chase should increase the need to rely on that aspect.

What do you base that on?

The Bengals are listing Moss as the starter and they're even putting Brown on KR return duty. That sure seems to be data points supporting Moss as the guy to touch the ball more.
I'm certainly open to logical arguments as to why that's not the case. But the information we have points in that direction.

I was going to ask you the same question but you already answered it. I just don't put much stock in needing to list one atop the other on the depth chart.

I'm basing my expectaions on a large amount of volume of reports and coach speak.

Yeah, top of the depth chart might mean "the guy that gets the first series" to one coach and "clear starter" to another. Others like to use the depth chart as a smoke screen or give barely a thought to it. The KR/PR is hard to make sense of but my take is that there are exactly zero prior examples of the new rules other than whatever vanilla stuff we saw in preseason. Lots of folks have said this new Kickoff stuff is so different that teams weren't going to reveal their hand during preseason in terms of how they plan to attack these returns. BUT....

I have a hunch plenty of teams think they can bust some big ones. And the recurring message has been that these kickoffs are like big running plays. So I don't think it should be surprising if coaches put their starting or high volume RBs in these positions, or WRs, in hopes that they break some big returns in ways people haven't seen before per se. And that they would still be fulfilling their normal role in the offense. Which is of course open for debate in terms of whether being a returner means less offensive touches, though traditional wisdom still carries some water there. But I think the intention here is to put your best playmakers in on those returns.

As for consistency re:Kyren Williams, I think it is basically the same. I wouldn't worry about his status as 1A in that backfield despite being the returner. Cincy is different because they're calling Moss the 1A but I think this is going to be a case of Moss gets lions share of 1st and 2nd down work, and quite importantly probably goalline stuff too, but Chase gets all the passing work and 3rd down, 2 minute drill, maybe 4 minute drill too depending on "hot hand" and IMO he is just better than Moss so he might get that work too. But calling Moss the starter basically means he is the 1st down guy for the most part.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

 

[barackdhouse]

*everybody* rotates backs unless it's a true bellcow situation and we know that isn't the case here. Some people prefer the guy that they think gets the goal to go stuff, and some prefer the receptions and explosivity.

 

[menobrown]

I wouldn't feel great about starting Brown week 1.

Do you start Brown or Jaylen Warren week 1 (assuming Warren is active)? We get 4 pt bonus for 50 yds rushing or 50 yds receiving and points for return yards (not a lot but some). Also, 1/2PPR.

Just wondering where Brown kind of fits in that flex kind of spot of lineup choices.

I don't agree with jm192 on the situation suggesting Moss is going to get more touches and I would start Brown on the basis the RB screen game is something the Bengals want to make a big part of their offense and either no or limited Chase should increase the need to rely on that aspect.

What do you base that on?

The Bengals are listing Moss as the starter and they're even putting Brown on KR return duty. That sure seems to be data points supporting Moss as the guy to touch the ball more.
I'm certainly open to logical arguments as to why that's not the case. But the information we have points in that direction.

I was going to ask you the same question but you already answered it. I just don't put much stock in needing to list one atop the other on the depth chart.

I'm basing my expectaions on a large amount of volume of reports and coach speak.

Yeah, top of the depth chart might mean "the guy that gets the first series" to one coach and "clear starter" to another. Others like to use the depth chart as a smoke screen or give barely a thought to it. The KR/PR is hard to make sense of but my take is that there are exactly zero prior examples of the new rules other than whatever vanilla stuff we saw in preseason. Lots of folks have said this new Kickoff stuff is so different that teams weren't going to reveal their hand during preseason in terms of how they plan to attack these returns. BUT....

I have a hunch plenty of teams think they can bust some big ones. And the recurring message has been that these kickoffs are like big running plays. So I don't think it should be surprising if coaches put their starting or high volume RBs in these positions, or WRs, in hopes that they break some big returns in ways people haven't seen before per se. And that they would still be fulfilling their normal role in the offense. Which is of course open for debate in terms of whether being a returner means less offensive touches, though traditional wisdom still carries some water there. But I think the intention here is to put your best playmakers in on those returns.

As for consistency re:Kyren Williams, I think it is basically the same. I wouldn't worry about his status as 1A in that backfield despite being the returner. Cincy is different because they're calling Moss the 1A but I think this is going to be a case of Moss gets lions share of 1st and 2nd down work, and quite importantly probably goalline stuff too, but Chase gets all the passing work and 3rd down, 2 minute drill, maybe 4 minute drill too depending on "hot hand" and IMO he is just better than Moss so he might get that work too. But calling Moss the starter basically means he is the 1st down guy for the most part.

Just going to say I view the Titans and Bengals RB situation as extremely similar in terms of role and way they want to use them.

They list Spears as the punt returner. The only difference is they list Spears and Pollard as both starters.

Neither any of those RB's being listed as a returner or the distinction that the Titans list them as co-starters vs the Bengals approach moves the needle to me at all. I believe the initial plan for both backfields, again based on what I said earlier which is a large volume of reports and coachspeak, is for a true RBBC approach. As thing evolve one could relegate the other to second status, more likely IMO is possiblity of exact roles, such as more of a designated third down back, 2 minute offense back, goal line back, etc,etc.

I had mentioned large volume of reports and coachspeak suggesting a RBBC, here is one of those reports from Bengals beat writer with The Athletic, where he's saying in response to the depth chart he expects a split.

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[zamboni]

People actually think Brown is going to outsnap Moss?

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that. Moss played very well for the Colts last year, but has been a JAG for virtually his entire career.

 

[Chaka]

Panic about Kyren doing punts, and people shrugging about Chase doing KO sure doesn't seem consistent.

Both are equally ill considered. KR & PR are only a handful of plays/game. Marquee players don't do it out of injury concerns not workload management.

If Moss was better than Brown at KR or PR he would probably be doing that too.

 

[jm192]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

1. You hear Kyren returns kicks and think his role is less than it was before.

2. You hear Brown returns kicks, but you already expected less of a role for him, so you're unphased by the news. It makes sense if we stop here.

3. You expect Brown's role to eventually increase in spite of the kick return news. This is where it gets tough for me.

I can certainly appreciate that Brown doesn't hurt you as bad when he costs less. I just don't read the kick return news and think this dude is eventually the 1A.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I can certainly appreciate that Brown doesn't hurt you as bad when he costs less. I just don't read the kick return news and think this dude is eventually the 1A.

Situations evolve. Maybe if/when he ascended to the 1A he stops returning kicks.

Or maybe, as others have suggested, it’s a new role with the new rules in the NFL and Chase Brown represents their best opportunity to gain yardage in that role.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Brown has always been the upside play here.

Not to compare the players or situations here, but so are Gibbs/Achane. But it's possible he becomes the CIN version of Jaylen Warren...which is a bit better than where he was being drafted, but not up to the RB2 hopes some had in placing bets on him.

That said, Moss hasn't been the most durable fella.

 

[JohnnyU]

Brown has always been the upside play here.

Not to compare the players or situations here, but so are Gibbs/Achane. But it's possible he becomes the CIN version of Jaylen Warren...which is a bit better than where he was being drafted, but not up to the RB2 hopes some had in placing bets on him.

That said, Moss hasn't been the most durable fella.

.....or that good outside a few game stretch replacing Taylor last year behind a very good run blocking OL.

 

[lakerstan]

I think we’ll see some interesting kick-off strategies with the new format, and perhaps some bigger names in that role than we might have before. Thinking back to Darren Sproles.

 

[TartanLion]

I’ll prefix this by saying I’m in the enviable position in dynasty where I picked up Brown off waivers last season, and also happened to trade for Moss and get him with Algeier going the other way in the run up to the playoffs as well.

At this point everyone is really just arguing semantics. NO ONE should be relying on either of these guys as a week 1 starter unless it’s in the last flex spot.

The situation is muddy bottom line. Brown is clearly more athletically gifted but questions remain about his abilities as an all round football player.

Moss less so gifted athletically but has at times proved himself as an all round functioning football player.

You can all keep on debating between the two till the cows come home, but given their similar ADPs and the above points, it’s a wait and see and both were drafted in rounds that suggested as much.

It might be a tandem all year where neither guy end up being a killer play. One guy might rise to the top and become the killer play. Or lastly, injury might create the answer.

I hate this expression but … it is what it is. No point dying on a hill for either right now

 

[Chaka]

Brown has always been the upside play here.

Not to compare the players or situations here, but so are Gibbs/Achane. But it's possible he becomes the CIN version of Jaylen Warren...which is a bit better than where he was being drafted, but not up to the RB2 hopes some had in placing bets on him.

That said, Moss hasn't been the most durable fella.

.....or that good outside a few game stretch replacing Taylor last year behind a very good run blocking OL.

I think you have said this previously in this thread (or maybe it was Moss's thread...or maybe I'm old and forgetful) but it doesn't necessarily hold up to scrutiny.

No one is surprised by clips of Moss playing well in the outlier season in which he actually played well. lol

This is a common refrain that I don't think is entirely accurate.

Moss's "outlier" season began over the last four games of 2022 and continued through the first four games of 2023.

Over those 8 games he totaled 158 carries for 779 yards that's 4.9 yards/attempt.

If you look at all the games over his career where he had 12 or more carries (totally arbitrary number but it translates to about 200 carries in a season, which is in the neighborhood of what I expect from a time share RB).

Over those 17 games he has 287 carries for 1,298 yards a 4.5 yards/attempt clip.

He didn't get a lot of run in Buffalo for whatever reasons but since he got to Indy all he has done is produce when called upon.

But it is important to emphasis that this really doesn't to appear to be an outlier situation.

When he has been given double digit carries he has produced both in Buffalo and Indianapolis.

He isn't a Hero RB but he's been consistently solid when given the opportunity.

 

[Chaka]

I think we’ll see some interesting kick-off strategies with the new format, and perhaps some bigger names in that role than we might have before. Thinking back to Darren Sproles.

I think we will see a higher rate of touchbacks than before the rules change and will turn out to have been a big nothing burger.

 

[Grid71]

Returning kickoffs doesn't change my opinion here at all. Reinforces it if anything. RBBC where Moss gets most of the rushes and probably short yardage/goal line work. Chase Brown more 3rd down receiving role and spell Moss regularly. If Moss falls flat, Brown's upside is a weekly starter.

In a PPR league, Brown has flex appeal. Burrow used to hit Mixon regularly approx 5 targets/game. Ideally a bench stash to see how much work comes his way.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

In a PPR league, Brown has flex appeal. Burrow used to hit Mixon regularly approx 5 targets/game. Ideally a bench stash to see how much work comes his way.

This is essentially what I traded for Brown hoping for. 5-6 targets/week, with 6-9 carries. If he’s in that 11-14 touch range, that’s PPR flex-worthy. Especially since he has game-breaking athleticism.

And an injury to Moss and Brown is nice lottery ticket to cash.

KR is meaningless to me. Though I now wish I’d taken him over Spears in my home league, because it’s full IDP and we get KR/PR yardage (.1/3) and TDs.

 

[cross1420]

I think we’ll see some interesting kick-off strategies with the new format, and perhaps some bigger names in that role than we might have before. Thinking back to Darren Sproles.

I think we will see a higher rate of touchbacks than before the rules change and will turn out to have been a big nothing burger.

The new kick off is wayyyy different than before. I herd a stat during the preseason where the new avg starting position is the 30 yrd line and around 75% kicks are being returned. Compare that to the lowest it ever was last year, def makes for new strategies and smart to get skill positions returning these back.

 

[Chaka]

I think we’ll see some interesting kick-off strategies with the new format, and perhaps some bigger names in that role than we might have before. Thinking back to Darren Sproles.

I think we will see a higher rate of touchbacks than before the rules change and will turn out to have been a big nothing burger.

The new kick off is wayyyy different than before. I herd a stat during the preseason where the new avg starting position is the 30 yrd line and around 75% kicks are being returned. Compare that to the lowest it ever was last year, def makes for new strategies and smart to get skill positions returning these back.

They test things out during the preseason. If the average return is to the 30 and a Touchback puts the ball at the 30, why would a kicking team risk a big return?

We're going to see just as many touchbacks, if not more.

 

[Deamon]

We're going to see just as many touchbacks, if not more.

Strongly disagree. There will be a lower percentage of touchbacks this year imo..

 

[JohnnyU]

I think we’ll see some interesting kick-off strategies with the new format, and perhaps some bigger names in that role than we might have before. Thinking back to Darren Sproles.

I think we will see a higher rate of touchbacks than before the rules change and will turn out to have been a big nothing burger.

The new kick off is wayyyy different than before. I herd a stat during the preseason where the new avg starting position is the 30 yrd line and around 75% kicks are being returned. Compare that to the lowest it ever was last year, def makes for new strategies and smart to get skill positions returning these back.

They test things out during the preseason. If the average return is to the 30 and a Touchback puts the ball at the 30, why would a kicking team risk a big return?

We're going to see just as many touchbacks, if not more.

Games I watched I didn't see any touchbacks. I think the new rules have fixed that for the most part.

 

[Chaka]

We're going to see just as many touchbacks, if not more.

Strongly disagree. There will be a lower percentage of touchbacks this year imo..

The new rules are designed to make big returns more likely. The averages preseason return was to the 30, the penalty for a touchback is the 30.

What's the advantage to the kicking team to offer up a returnable ball?

I think we’ll see some interesting kick-off strategies with the new format, and perhaps some bigger names in that role than we might have before. Thinking back to Darren Sproles.

I think we will see a higher rate of touchbacks than before the rules change and will turn out to have been a big nothing burger.

The new kick off is wayyyy different than before. I herd a stat during the preseason where the new avg starting position is the 30 yrd line and around 75% kicks are being returned. Compare that to the lowest it ever was last year, def makes for new strategies and smart to get skill positions returning these back.

They test things out during the preseason. If the average return is to the 30 and a Touchback puts the ball at the 30, why would a kicking team risk a big return?

We're going to see just as many touchbacks, if not more.

Games I watched I didn't see any touchbacks. I think the new rules have fixed that for the most part.

Meh. I think the Raiders went 3-0 in preseason last year. I don't think it means anything. Coaches try different things, put stuff in tape so they can break it down later.

IMO end result here is there is no advantage to kick a returnable ball.

 

[cheese]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

Actually it’s by coach comments.

Reportedly Chase worked on running routes with a WRs coach, and the bengals coach commented that he looks like a WR out there.

So I believe that will give him the leg up on Moss for receptions.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Ohai more ambiguity

The Athletic’s Paul Dehner reports Zack Moss and Chase Brown “will both be doing a little bit of everything rather than falling into predetermined positions.”
It’s a question that has lingered for months: Who will function as the Bengals’ primary back? The answer could be no one. Brown being tapped as the team’s primary kick returner suggested Moss could have the RB1 role locked down entering the preseason, but Bengals head coach Zac Taylor, per Dehner, is “concerned about showing tendencies with his personnel while admitting there are plays on the call sheet tagged to a specific running back.” Bengals running back usage will be closely monitored by fantasy managers in Week 1.

This is a RBBC. Anyone pretending otherwise is about to be disappointed.

And nothing has changed since June. lol

 

[Chaka]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

Moss is also not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" guy. Never has been.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Moss is also not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" guy. Never has been.

It’s an expression. Lighten up, Francis.

(He’s actually more of an injury tent guy)

 

[JohnnyU]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

Moss is also not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" guy. Never has been.

You are right. He’s a 4.3 yard / 2.8 TD 415 yard guy. However, I do expect 4 or 5 TDs and about 650 rushing yards and about 125 receiving yards.

 

[Chaka]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

Moss is also not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" guy. Never has been.

You are right. He’s a 4.3 yard / 2.8 TD 415 yard guy. However, I do expect 4 or 5 TDs and about 650 rushing yards and about 100 receiving yards.

That's one way of looking at it. You can also look at it from the games where he has had at least a timeshare workload (12+ touches).

If he gets 200 or so carries (about 12/game) I expect him to do what he always does, about 4.5 yards/carry for 900 yards and maybe 7 TDs. Throw in maybe 150-200 receiving yards and another TD on about 25-30 receptions.

 

[JohnnyU]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

Moss is also not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" guy. Never has been.

You are right. He’s a 4.3 yard / 2.8 TD 415 yard guy. However, I do expect 4 or 5 TDs and about 650 rushing yards and about 100 receiving yards.

That's one way of looking at it. You can also look at it from the games where he has had at least a timeshare workload (12+ touches).

If he gets 200 or so carries (about 12/game) I expect him to do what he always does, about 4.5 yards/carry for 900 yards and maybe 7 TDs. Throw in maybe 150-200 receiving yards and another TD on about 25-30 receptions.

He hasn’t always done that. He averages 4.3 ypc and 415 yards over his career. He’s never had over 5 rushing TDs and that includes running behind a good run blocking line last year. I do think he eclipse the yards, maybe 650 to 750, but nowhere near a thousand. Perhaps 5 rushing TDs.

 

[Chaka]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

Moss is also not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" guy. Never has been.

You are right. He’s a 4.3 yard / 2.8 TD 415 yard guy. However, I do expect 4 or 5 TDs and about 650 rushing yards and about 100 receiving yards.

That's one way of looking at it. You can also look at it from the games where he has had at least a timeshare workload (12+ touches).

If he gets 200 or so carries (about 12/game) I expect him to do what he always does, about 4.5 yards/carry for 900 yards and maybe 7 TDs. Throw in maybe 150-200 receiving yards and another TD on about 25-30 receptions.

He hasn’t always done that. He averages 4.3 ypc and 415 yards over his career. I do think he eclipse the yards, maybe 650 to 750, but nowhere near a thousand.

I think it is fair to separate out games where he was actually given a timeshare workload, or more, from the 3-5 touch games. Apparently you don't. All good.

 

[massraider]

Panic about Kyren doing punts, and people shrugging about Chase doing KO sure doesn't seem consistent.

It's not and I've drafted Kyren twice since that report so I can at least say I'm consistent in that for me it means nothing to me.

Yeah, it's just one data point, and

Ohai more ambiguity

The Athletic’s Paul Dehner reports Zack Moss and Chase Brown “will both be doing a little bit of everything rather than falling into predetermined positions.”
It’s a question that has lingered for months: Who will function as the Bengals’ primary back? The answer could be no one. Brown being tapped as the team’s primary kick returner suggested Moss could have the RB1 role locked down entering the preseason, but Bengals head coach Zac Taylor, per Dehner, is “concerned about showing tendencies with his personnel while admitting there are plays on the call sheet tagged to a specific running back.” Bengals running back usage will be closely monitored by fantasy managers in Week 1.

This is a RBBC. Anyone pretending otherwise is about to be disappointed.

And nothing has changed since June. lol

Did you know that Chase Brown's middle name is Hopium? Weird, right?

 

[JohnnyU]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

Moss is also not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" guy. Never has been.

You are right. He’s a 4.3 yard / 2.8 TD 415 yard guy. However, I do expect 4 or 5 TDs and about 650 rushing yards and about 100 receiving yards.

That's one way of looking at it. You can also look at it from the games where he has had at least a timeshare workload (12+ touches).

If he gets 200 or so carries (about 12/game) I expect him to do what he always does, about 4.5 yards/carry for 900 yards and maybe 7 TDs. Throw in maybe 150-200 receiving yards and another TD on about 25-30 receptions.

He hasn’t always done that. He averages 4.3 ypc and 415 yards over his career. I do think he eclipse the yards, maybe 650 to 750, but nowhere near a thousand.

I think it is fair to separate out games where he was actually given a timeshare workload, or more, from the 3-5 touch games. Apparently you don't. All good.

I think I’m being very fair to Moss.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Panic about Kyren doing punts, and people shrugging about Chase doing KO sure doesn't seem consistent.

It's not and I've drafted Kyren twice since that report so I can at least say I'm consistent in that for me it means nothing to me.

Yeah, it's just one data point, and

Ohai more ambiguity

The Athletic’s Paul Dehner reports Zack Moss and Chase Brown “will both be doing a little bit of everything rather than falling into predetermined positions.”
It’s a question that has lingered for months: Who will function as the Bengals’ primary back? The answer could be no one. Brown being tapped as the team’s primary kick returner suggested Moss could have the RB1 role locked down entering the preseason, but Bengals head coach Zac Taylor, per Dehner, is “concerned about showing tendencies with his personnel while admitting there are plays on the call sheet tagged to a specific running back.” Bengals running back usage will be closely monitored by fantasy managers in Week 1.

This is a RBBC. Anyone pretending otherwise is about to be disappointed.

And nothing has changed since June. lol

Did you know that Chase Brown's middle name is Hopium? Weird, right?

That’s so weird. That’s *my* middle name!

 

[jm192]

Even on this board, people are still saying they expect Brown to overtake Moss.

So if you think it's an RBBC and Brown is going to be part of an RBBC all year--fair enough.

But if you've been thinking that Brown is eventually going to be the RB1 in the end--then it's a lot closer to the Kyren situation after all.

Not really because Kyren is still going as a 2nd or 3rd round pick, while the Chase Brown/Zach Moss duo is going in the 7-8-9th rounds. The capital you spend on a Chase or Moss is not the same as what you spend on a Kyren. When your 2nd round "stud RB" is looking more like a RBBC there's more panic than when your RBBC RB is revealed to be in a RBBC, right?

And I don't see many saying Corum is going to take over Kyren's job this year, but I am among those who believes Brown is good enough to eventually win over the snap share from Moss. But to me that's going from 40/60 to 60/40.

And right now the 40 I expect Brown to get comes with receptions, so it balances out the 3 yard & cloud of dust carries from Moss.

I see the reactions as different because the situations are different.

I’ve seen some posts like this which I assume are based on body type of the players. If you can look past that, Moss is actually a much better passing down back with durability concerns and Brown is a between the tackles specialist that was a workhorse in college.

You could maybe convince me that Brown is more explosive for big runs, but in general I think there is a misunderstanding of skill sets due to size of the players. It’s probably going to be by series, but if it turns into early down/pass down, it would definitely be Brown on run downs and Moss on pass downs.

Moss is also not a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" guy. Never has been.

You are right. He’s a 4.3 yard / 2.8 TD 415 yard guy. However, I do expect 4 or 5 TDs and about 650 rushing yards and about 100 receiving yards.

That's one way of looking at it. You can also look at it from the games where he has had at least a timeshare workload (12+ touches).

If he gets 200 or so carries (about 12/game) I expect him to do what he always does, about 4.5 yards/carry for 900 yards and maybe 7 TDs. Throw in maybe 150-200 receiving yards and another TD on about 25-30 receptions.

He hasn’t always done that. He averages 4.3 ypc and 415 yards over his career. He’s never had over 5 rushing TDs and that includes running behind a good run blocking line last year. I do think he eclipse the yards, maybe 650 to 750, but nowhere near a thousand. Perhaps 5 rushing TDs.

But if we're doing this whole thing of his career average yards are this and his career yards per carry are that and he only had 5 rushing touchdowns:

Chase Brown has a ypc of 4.1.
Chase Brown has a career average of 179 yards.
Chase Brown has ZERO career rushing TD's.

Now you're going to quickly point out that Chase had limited opportunities and his Run blocking OL wasn't as good. And that's somewhat the point. We're ignoring context on Moss but accounting for context on Chase.

Moss had 183 rushes last year, which was a career high. Now maybe you say he hasn't earned more touches. But he's only had 1 season under that 4.3 ypc (better than Chase's 4.1).

He only had 5 TD's on a team with a good run blocking OL:
1. He had 2 receiving touchdowns.
2. Anthony Richardson had 3 rushing TD's across 3 games they played together.
3. Jonathan Taylor was on the team and is simply better than Moss (and Brown).

Through a different lens:

Moss had 6 games with 18 or more carries.
He had 556 yards on 126 carries
That's 92 yards a game, YPC of 4.4

Jonathan Taylor's YPC last year behind the same good run blocking OL: 4.4

The narrative seems to be that Chase Brown with his 4.1 YPC is explosive and dynamic.
Zack Moss on the other hand only has a career ypc of 4.3 and is a 3 yards and a cloud of dust guy.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Ohai more ambiguity

The Athletic’s Paul Dehner reports Zack Moss and Chase Brown “will both be doing a little bit of everything rather than falling into predetermined positions.”
It’s a question that has lingered for months: Who will function as the Bengals’ primary back? The answer could be no one. Brown being tapped as the team’s primary kick returner suggested Moss could have the RB1 role locked down entering the preseason, but Bengals head coach Zac Taylor, per Dehner, is “concerned about showing tendencies with his personnel while admitting there are plays on the call sheet tagged to a specific running back.” Bengals running back usage will be closely monitored by fantasy managers in Week 1.

This is a RBBC. Anyone pretending otherwise is about to be disappointed.

And nothing has changed since June. lol

And it's not the death knell for either back. If Cincinnati can produce an offense similar to what teams like Miami and Detroit have, it can make both of them viable options.

 

[Chaka]

Ohai more ambiguity

The Athletic’s Paul Dehner reports Zack Moss and Chase Brown “will both be doing a little bit of everything rather than falling into predetermined positions.”
It’s a question that has lingered for months: Who will function as the Bengals’ primary back? The answer could be no one. Brown being tapped as the team’s primary kick returner suggested Moss could have the RB1 role locked down entering the preseason, but Bengals head coach Zac Taylor, per Dehner, is “concerned about showing tendencies with his personnel while admitting there are plays on the call sheet tagged to a specific running back.” Bengals running back usage will be closely monitored by fantasy managers in Week 1.

This is a RBBC. Anyone pretending otherwise is about to be disappointed.

And nothing has changed since June. lol

And it's not the death knell for either back. If Cincinnati can produce an offense similar to what teams like Miami and Detroit have, it can make both of them viable options.

Oh, is that all?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Ohai more ambiguity

The Athletic’s Paul Dehner reports Zack Moss and Chase Brown “will both be doing a little bit of everything rather than falling into predetermined positions.”
It’s a question that has lingered for months: Who will function as the Bengals’ primary back? The answer could be no one. Brown being tapped as the team’s primary kick returner suggested Moss could have the RB1 role locked down entering the preseason, but Bengals head coach Zac Taylor, per Dehner, is “concerned about showing tendencies with his personnel while admitting there are plays on the call sheet tagged to a specific running back.” Bengals running back usage will be closely monitored by fantasy managers in Week 1.

This is a RBBC. Anyone pretending otherwise is about to be disappointed.

And nothing has changed since June. lol

And it's not the death knell for either back. If Cincinnati can produce an offense similar to what teams like Miami and Detroit have, it can make both of them viable options.

Oh, is that all?

Low bar, but hey, doable. They’re a scrappy bunch of gamers.